Jason Harris on Unstoppable with Kara GoldinMy guest today is Jason Harris, president and CEO of the award-winning creative agency Mekanism.

Mekanism has worked with tons of brands that you’ll recognize including Peloton, Disney, Adidas, Levi’s, Ben & Jerry’s, The White House, Nordstrom, Amazon, and North Face.

Jason shares some amazing insights, advice, and updates on today’s show. He talks about how the best brands use storytelling to market to their consumer, how to change your branding, his best advice to entrepreneurs and much more.

If you like what you hear on today’s show, make sure to check out Jason’s NEW book called The Soulful Art of Persuasion: The 11 Habits That Will Make Anyone a Master Influencer. I ordered my copy, and I hope you do too.

 

You can Subscribe and Listen to the Podcast on Apple Podcasts. And be sure to leave us a Rating and Review!

Unstoppable with Kara Goldin on Apple Podcasts

“If you can tell a compelling story (and brands are full and rich with deep storytelling), then you’ve talked to the audience in a compelling way.” – Jason Harris

Show Notes:

  • How to market to college students
  • The importance of storytelling
  • How to change branding
  • What the challenges of e-commerce business are
  • How to build relationships with customers

“I wish I would’ve made bigger bets on the right people earlier, which would’ve saved a lot of time and energy.” – Jason Harris

Links Mentioned:

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | Mekanism

“You have to believe in it, or you shouldn’t be trying to sell it in any way.” – Jason Harris

Transcript:

 

Kara Goldin: Hi everybody. It’s Kara Goldin and we’re here on Unstoppable with our next guest, Jason Harris. I am so excited to have Jason here today. President and CEO of award-winning creative agency, Mechanism. Really, really excited. You may or may not know the name but you’ll definitely recognize some of the brands, iconic brands, that he’s worked with including Peloton, Disney, Adidas, Levi’s, Ben & Jerry’s, The White House, Nordstrom’s, Amazon, and North Face, just to name a few. In addition to running this company, Jason, you also serve on the Board of the United Nations Social Impact Leadership Council and Advertising Week. Wow, super cool. And advising some of the leaders of the Elite Marketing 50 too. And yeah, what else? What else can we talk about here that you haven’t done? I mean, this is amazing. Your background is super cool but I want to jump right into hearing a little bit more about Mechanism.

Jason Harris: Sure, yeah. So we’re an independent creative agency. We’ve been around about 13 years. I actually started in San Francisco. I now … I moved to New York seven years ago. We have offices in San Francisco, New York, Seattle, Chicago. And our whole thing is the soul and science of storytelling. And how we define that is the soul is really the core … the purpose that the brand serves. Why it exists in the first place. What it’s trying to do that’s larger than just profits and selling. Obviously, we’re a capitalist society so profits are important, sales are important, but brands exist and live in the world for reasons beyond purely transactional financial lines.

So we always try to uncover that and we believe in storytelling at its core because nobody is waiting for your popup ad to block what they really want to watch, but if you can tell a compelling story … and brands are full and rich of deep storytelling … then you’ve talked to the audience in a compelling way. And that’s really what we built the brand on.

One other theme that’s sort of a side hustle that I started four years ago, I know you did some work with the Obama White House. We also did. We launched a campaign to end sexual assault on college campuses called It’s On Us. We launched it with Joe Biden and Obama. And that’s really been a pivotal project and they have chapters in 500 colleges and universities. And that’s really trying to stem the tide of sexual assault which is very prevalent in colleges and universities and it’s really targeting men, and it’s targeting men to not be bystanders but to step in and create change. And really, the namesake, It’s On Us, is that it’s a problem for all of us to solve. And so, doing social good is how we use our advertising powers for good and we love to do those types of campaigns as well.

Kara Goldin: That’s awesome. How did you get involved in that?

Jason Harris: It’s really a funny story. We had done a lot of work with Unilever and their brand Axe. And if you remember, Axe is targeting men, college men … college age men … and it’s you spray on whatever product they have, deodorant. They have body wash. So you put those sort of scents on and the women are supposed to flock to you. And so, we really created campaigns years ago for Axe that were all about attracting the opposite sex through this product which was very young male dominated.

And someone at The White House, their Office of Engagement, knew that we had done these campaigns. And their idea … which was really smart … is they thought if these guys can talk to college students about attracting women with Unilever products, maybe they can use those same skills and convince men that they should be part of the solution to end sexual assault. And so, that was really having that target audience expertise is really why The White House called us and, of course, we jumped right in and from that project, it started the collective agency’s love for doing social good campaigns. And we have since started a group called The Creative Alliance which is 90 companies from agencies to brands to media platforms that all come together to fight anti-hate and discrimination, serve to move education forward, gender equality. So there’s these pillars that we believe in and it’s this massive group that does pro bono campaigns. It’s been really, really rewarding.

Kara Goldin: I love it. I love it. That’s great. Really, really awesome. I always tell entrepreneurs that are starting companies that I really believe that consumers buy from not only products that they love but also if you have a backstory, you should really get it out there and tell people your why. How do you find stories within large companies? Right? Most of them, these large companies, in many cases especially in CPG, maybe their founders are no longer around or maybe the story isn’t that great. How do you do that? How do you try and find the right story to actually tell?

Jason Harris: Yeah. That’s always challenging. And there’s, I think, there’s three ways that stories come to life. One is what you mentioned which would be your story which is really founder led. Why did the original founders, even if they’re no longer there, start the company? What problem were they trying to solve? What were they trying to do in the marketplace? That’s one story. Another story that you can lean into is if you take a brand like Shinola which makes wallets and watches and jewelry, they don’t really have a story from a founder perspective, per se, but they are all about Detroit. They’re about the community in which they make their products, and they’re about the Detroit Renaissance and bringing that community back. And so, that’s a story that they tell. They put Detroit on everything, made in Detroit. They wear that badge really proudly. They hire in Detroit. They make the products there.

So they’re the founder, reason you developed it, it can be a community story. Or it could be a story that you evolve into like, say, Levi’s now is doing a huge push to bring down the amount of water that they use in their products, and that’s their core thing that they believe in. Obviously, they have the pioneering story and the gold miner stories as a backdrop as well. But their next story is all about how they make the product. So it can be founder led, reason for existing, maybe the community that you serve or where you’re based. And then, it can also be a new story or why you’re trying to change the world. You know, Apple is trying to make their products from recycled materials. A company like Patagonia wants to do no harm to the environment.

So it can really evolve. You really need to find that story and it’s either there or like a company that we work with is Charles Schwab, financial services company. Obviously, they’re heavy into profit and markets and making money for their investors. But they’re also doing a lot with financial literacy and they believe that everyone should have the power of investing and understand financial literacy. So there’s a story there that you can unearth. There’s always something.

I’d say the mistake that brands make is that sometimes if they don’t have a story, they will just jump to whatever is happening. They’ll be trend-based. So whatever is happening in the public eye whether it’s gay rights, whether it’s gender equality. They’ll just issue hop and I think that’s really damaging because you’re just trying … it’s so obvious and inauthentic because you’re trying to just ride the wave of cultural sentiment and you’re not doing something that’s inherent and core to the brands. So you can’t really change your story a lot over time and you can’t really issue hop because that’s inauthentic.

Kara Goldin: I totally agree. It’s funny. I have a few teenagers in my house and whenever I want a sanity check about something that we’re working on, they’ll be the first to tell us, “No, you can’t do that.” They so get it in terms of what is and what isn’t, even if I am trying to check it. So I always tell entrepreneurs, “Find those teenagers out there because they’re not afraid to tell you that something is just so off.” Right? Off the mark.

Jason Harris: There’s no better bullshit detector out there than the teenager.

Kara Goldin: No, 100%.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Kara Goldin: It’s funny. My dad ages ago launched a brand within a large company called Healthy Choice and he was actually at Armor Food Company at the time and then they were acquired by ConAgra. So, he sort of grew up inside of ConAgra. But it’s funny, he used to tell me when I was really, really little that he’d talk about the shrimp fishermen off of the coast of Georgia, off of St. Simons island and how they went out at like 3:00 in the morning and they would pretty much never have breakfast with their kids because they wanted to actually supply consumers with great fish and that was the best time to get the shrimp.

And so, for years ConAgra was actually … they put that on the package. It’s fascinating because I look back and I … like my dad, this was way long ago in the ’70s, really got it. He understood the art of storytelling and how important it was, and especially in CPG worlds.

Jason Harris: Yeah. It’s so true. I remember Healthy Choice and it shows you the power of a strong name. You know exactly what that name stands for when you hear it and it was … that was wildly popular. It’s impressive he started that.

Kara Goldin: Yeah. No, it’s crazy. But anyway, I want to go back to you. So Mechanism, what sort of drove you to start this? I mean, obviously, storytelling, you must have loved that. But what was the epiphany for you that said, “I need to go start this?”

Jason Harris: I had worked at many different agencies and I think agencies are essentially in any creative endeavor is essentially really just a collection of people and how they hang together. There’s nothing more to it than that. And what drives the way people hang together is culture. And I was getting to a point in the advertising industry … this is probably about 14 years ago … where I was feeling that it was driven by ego and politics. And that’s not to say all agencies were run like that. I just happened to work at a few. And the idea, the impetus, was I feel like I’ve learned the craft. I feel like I could do this as well. But I’d like to do it in a culture that is supportive, nonpolitical, optimistic. We assume our clients are geniuses, not that we have to save our clients.

And so, I just was getting a little grossed out at the work culture. And so, it was really driven … and started it with a few friends … and it was really driven by let’s do the work and let’s do it as best we can and do it slightly differently. But let’s do it in an environment that’s enjoyable and fun and respectful. And that was really the genesis behind the company.

Kara Goldin: That’s awesome. That’s great. So how many people are you now?

Jason Harris: We’re about 220.

Kara Goldin: We’re about the same size, and about the same number of years too. So it’s-

Jason Harris: Yeah. Isn’t it crazy how long it takes?

Kara Goldin: It takes a long time. Yeah. It’s funny I always tell people, they’re like, “Wow,” especially coming … I was in tech before … and 14 years seems like an eternity especially when you talk to tech people. And you know, I always tell people that in the … I always feel great when I hear the Vitamin Water story that I think by the year 14, Darius had gone bankrupt twice and … lots of milestones that haven’t happened to me yet. So I’m like great brands take a long time. There’s very few overnight wonders and successes. And I think it’s the same with advertising. It really it takes a while to build and really do great work overall.

Jason Harris: Yes. It does. It takes a long time and when people don’t … Now Hint or Mechanism, it either whatever you do as an entrepreneur, when people start to hear about you, it seems like it was overnight but it was really a decade plus of grinding it out to get there.

Kara Goldin: 100%.

Jason Harris: Unless you’re starting with some crazy idea and you’re trying to flip and you’ve got a ton of VC money and you can scale it really quick, that’s a different way to go.

Kara Goldin: I know you’re working … I mean, you’ve worked with great brands, I’ll name Peloton just to name one, that is more of an eCommerce play. But then, you’ve got other brands that are really focused on more digital in branding. What would you say to … I get this question probably every other day from lots of big brands who are trying to figure out how to go direct into eCommerce. What would you say is the biggest thing from a branding standpoint that you should think about?

Jason Harris: From a branding standpoint for a DTC brand or a brand in general?

Kara Goldin: A brand that wants to become a DTC brand.

Jason Harris: Yeah. So many brands want to do that, to make that pivot now. And I would say that the hardest thing is that you have to think about … a brand like Peloton which started that way, when we’re doing any kind of advertising … we’ve been working with them for four years … when they started, you’re selling a $3,500 bike at the time in a new category to people that don’t really understand what it is. And there’s no where to buy it except for driving traffic to their website. And so, you have to create emotional advertising that is also direct response advertising at the same time, and it’s all about clicks.

And so, when a brand, a large brand that’s successful, wants to pivot, the marketing becomes so much harder because you’re not just building brand affinity and then … you’re not doing the funnel work where you’re reminding them and it’s frequency. And then, when they go in the store, you have a competitive advantage because they know your brand better than another brand. You have to really balance creating a story with emotion that also results in someone taking the time to go seek you, go to your site, click and buy it. And that is a very, very different and harder skill to master. And so, I think when brands think they’ll just switch over to that, it becomes really challenging. It becomes really, really hard.

Kara Goldin: Yeah. No, absolutely. It’s interesting. When we started off even though I had experience in eCommerce, we started off as a brand that just sold in stores. The age old question is is this going to cannibalize existing business and we’ve seen just the opposite. Since we actually went online and we’re … our ads on Facebook are clearly not pure brand or digital, they’re sending consumers to our website. There’s a lot of consumers that still want to buy our product at Kroger or Target or just pick it up inside of Google or whatever, and I think it’s it really is the omnichannel approach of making sure that the consumer knows that they’re in control of where they buy. But it’s definitely, it can be helpful to the offline world for sure.

But I always feel like there are things that these brands don’t really understand if they don’t have a backend operation set up including picking and packing a box for the consumer that’s acceptable and weight in the case of beverages, for us, that they really have to take into account that is not easy and there’s a lot of challenges with it.

Jason Harris: Yeah. It sounds a lot easier than it is, right?

Kara Goldin: Absolutely.

Jason Harris: The shipping. And do consumers want to pay for shipping? Are they used to not paying for shipping? Then depending on where you’re sold, how much margin the seller is going to take? Are you doing it all on your website? Obviously, is it more beneficial, I don’t know if you can go into that detail, but where the consumer buys it? Like if they buy it on Amazon versus on your site, does that have a market impact on the bottom line?

Kara Goldin: I mean, the only impact it has is that we can communicate with the customer that buys on our website. So when we launch … not every store carries all of our flavors, for example. So when we launch special flavors or we have some flavors that will never make it to the store that we call smash ups where we’ll just put cherry and raspberry together. And those end up selling out in like 24 hours. And in some cases, we’ll test them on our website and then, we’ll decide, “Wow, that was really fast and let’s launch it at Target,” or another store.

So, but it’s interesting that you say this. I always say to people, my consumer actually writes to me and has such a relationship with Hint that they … not every consumer … but many consumers have written me saying, “Do you care where I buy your product? Is it better for you if I’m buying it at Target or on your site or on Amazon?” And I’m like, “Wow, that’s so interesting that they care enough to actually ask me is it going to help me?” Right? Like what brands … that’s a sticky consumer. Right? That’s a consumer that actually cares about you. I bet many of the large soda companies never get those emails. Right? It’s a crazy kind of concept.

Jason Harris: There’s no way they would get those emails.

Kara Goldin: Right? And it’s crazy. And my response, of course, is, “No, you buy it wherever you want.” We want all of our channels to be successful. And so, the downside for us is that we can’t control pricing so on Amazon, for example, some days it’s going to be one price and some days it’s going to be another price. And same with Target and some others. I mean, they change. Their algorithm changes and that’s what happens.

So, as a brand, that’s the challenge of working through different channels beyond your own. They can sell your product for whatever they want.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Kara Goldin: And you can’t do anything about it. But that’s our problem, it’s not the consumer’s problem. And I always tell consumers, go find the best price. And our promise to consumers is that every single thing that we do at Hint is on our site at drinkhint.com. But beyond that, no, it doesn’t help other than their ability … we can market to them and et cetera. But that’s it.

Jason Harris: Yes.

Kara Goldin: So the one thing, go back 13 years maybe, maybe nine years, whatever. What is the one thing that you would have done differently in building your company?

Jason Harris: That is such a great question. The one thing that I would do differently? Okay, it’s been said before so it’s not some breakthrough idea that you haven’t heard. But I think when you’re starting a business, you tend to be penny wise and pound foolish with talent. And I think you hire people that are almost good enough or have almost the right experience because it’s $20,000 grand cheaper here or $30,000 grand cheaper here or $40,000 grand cheaper here, and that adds up over time. But when you get the right people, it turbo charges your business. And I think you’d rather have fewer … you’d rather have less resources but have all the resources be highly, highly talented than have more resources that you’re spending a lot of energy trying to get right or aren’t working out.

And so, I think when we were not quite as big and didn’t have 25 brands we worked on and were going project to project, I was a little more in the mindset of making every dollar count because we’re self-funded, we had no investment money whatsoever. So it’s all from the founders. And that, I would have changed. I would have made bigger bets on the right people earlier which would have saved a lot of time and energy.

Kara Goldin: Yeah. I think that’s 100% what we’ve seen as well. I also believe though that when you’re finding talent, it doesn’t necessarily mean where they’ve worked or how many years experience they’ve had. I think that those, at least for our business, that’s kind of … it’s a combination of people that get it and people who are smart, but also people that have that passion to just dig in and figure it out.

Jason Harris: So true. Yeah, talent isn’t they’ve done this role for 10 … they’re the operations person that has 10 years experience. It can be the right cultural fit with a hunger to learn and they’re really intelligent. We’ve seen people rise through the ranks really quickly. So, it’s not always experience-led. But when that Spidey-sense goes off and someone is a little less expensive and you just kind of say, “It will be okay,” your Spidey-sense is always right. And it’s never worth it.

Kara Goldin: Yep. No, I agree. Definitely correct.

Jason Harris: Yeah. That’s what I wish we did. It took us a long time to learn it. Now we’re experts at it. I personally interview every hire even if it’s for 20 minutes. The team has vetted them and I just make sure I have a cultural chemistry meeting with them just to make sure because if you get a couple folks that are off or are political by nature or hide information or pit people against each other, it throws the whole … it’s like a Jenga piece when you pull it out. The whole thing just crumbles. It’s really, really critical that you get that culture piece right.

Kara Goldin: I totally agree. So this may … that point may fall into this next question. But what’s the best advice that you ever received?

Jason Harris: Yeah. I think the best advice and I actually have this in a book that I wrote that’s coming out that I really … I kind of heard this and I ignored it and I got this advice. And now, I really, really believe it which is never try to sell something you wouldn’t buy yourself. And we have done experiments with investing in products, doing some sort of side hustles within the company, and an example is when if you remember when Vine was really big and it was Twitter’s video platform.

Kara Goldin: Yep.

Jason Harris: And we had created, we spent a bunch of money to create this tech that allowed you … it was a site that allowed you to search through Vines because Vines were impossible at the time to search through and you couldn’t find categories and contents. So we spent, had a lot of developers, created this searchable thing. We hoped we would launch it and Twitter or some other company would come along and buy it because it was really smart. And I never really got Vine personally. I didn’t really see the need when you have YouTube and Twitter is a really platform for the written word and communicating and short opinions and a one-to-one way to talk to famous people, celebrities, influencers, whoever, comrades online. And I didn’t see it but I was convinced to spend a lot of money to invest in this product, and ultimately, Twitter shut down Vine shortly after we launched and we just wasted all of our time and energy and pooled a lot of resources to build this thing.

And so, that’s when that advice really hit me, never sell something that you wouldn’t buy yourself. And if you don’t believe in it in your core, and people convince you of it, you really, as a leader of a company, as an entrepreneur, you have to listen to that gut and I just always think about that mantra. I always think about it when I’m pitching ideas to clients or selling something to a client is you have to believe in it or you shouldn’t be trying to sell it in any way.

Kara Goldin: I 1000% agree. I think it’s … I hear from entrepreneurs all the time that they’re chasing products that they’ve seen out there and they want to develop a product just because they believe that that company has made it big and they can do it. The first question I always ask is, “Would you drink it? Does it taste good?” At least in the case of beverages. And it’s amazing how many actually say, “Well no, it’s not really for me.” And I think, “God, how can you actually really … ” I don’t know. I also think entrepreneurism is something that you can make a lot more money, I’m sure you would agree, doing other stuff, besides being an entrepreneur. It takes a really long time to really make it be something. And easier ways to make money.

Jason Harris: Yeah. There’s faster ways to make money. It’s a long haul. It’s a long haul and you don’t even know the payoff at the end. And sometimes, it’s nothing.

Kara Goldin: Yeah. No, 100%.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Kara Goldin: So you mentioned a book, can you talk about it?

Jason Harris: Yeah. Absolutely. It’s my first book. It comes out September 10th. It’s called The Soulful Art of Persuasion. It’s published on Random House. And I’m really excited about it. It was about a three year project and the concept behind it is if … It started as an idea of selling and pitching. And when you work in an advertising agency, you’re in this microscope of as an entrepreneur you’re selling and pitching your team to follow you day in and day out. Then, you take the concepts and you have to sell them to a client who has to buy the idea and buy the strategy. Then, you have to launch it and put it out in the world and convince the consumer buy this Ben & Jerry’s new product innovation that we’re launching, or a Peloton bike, or switch to Charles Schwab, or watch this HBO program. So you’re convincing your team, you’re convincing clients, and then, you’re convincing ultimately the consumer who has the purchasing power.

And over 20 years in the business, I learned a lot of skills that I think are not taught today and are a little bit counterintuitive. And so, I put those into a book and researched a ton with psychologists, with universities. So, there’s a lot of psychology in there, pop culture references. And created 11 habits that I think make people influential and able to persuade. And a lot of these are character-based habits, some of which we started talking about, that are really for business success but also I think for personal growth.

I’ll give you one example is there’s a chapter called Never Be Closing and the adage in sales is ABC from Glengarry Glen Ross, always be closing, always look at closing that deal. Get it signed on the dotted line. And that’s really an old school way of thinking, and today, it’s really about relationship building, playing the long game, looking at things that will pay off down the road. And it’s getting out of that transactional mindset that really both in your relationships and in business that I think pays dividends and I think it’s where the world is. We live in a world now, we’re in such an age of distrust with just polarizing viewpoints and bipartisan bickering and fake news. I think more than ever, I’m really proud of this idea that soulful people and people that really understand themselves. They’re original. They look at things. They play the long game. Those are the people that are the most successful over time.

Kara Goldin: I love it. So The Soulful Art of Persuasion. I just, as you were talking, I just went on Amazon and bought it.

Jason Harris: Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that.

Kara Goldin: No, I could learn a few things from you so I just got a book deal myself so that will sometime next year. I’m very excited. It’s a whole world that I knew nothing about and I’m a quick study or learner on this whole topic, so I’m excited for you. That’s great.

Jason Harris: Are you allowed to talk about your project? I’d love to hear about it.

Kara Goldin: Yeah. I mean, it’s Harper Leadership and yeah. In many ways, could be a good tie in with your book. It’s really talking about just characteristics that I’ve seen over the years, but also really believing in yourself and your journey and putting stakes in the ground. And just a lot of just overall in what I’ve seen with the building of Hint but also just the building of myself.

Jason Harris: They’re linked together. Yeah.

Kara Goldin: They’re very much linked together. And it’s lessons as I … part of the reason I do Unstoppable is I feel like I’m so lucky and so fortunate to be able to talk to so many people that other people can’t. And they just don’t have the same opportunities that I have. And so, I try and get the interviews with these people out there and it’s something that just as a overall kind of give back. That’s kind of what I want to do too.

And I’m thinking of the book in the same way that I feel like there’s so many lessons that friends of mine will call me and they’ll be like, “You have four kids. How do you do this? How do you run a business and it’s growing so fast. How do you hire people?” All of these things. And I thought, “You know what? I need to just start writing.” And I did two years ago and then finally presented it. That will be part of my book too that I say like people are like, “Of course you got a book deal.” And I said, “Listen, there were plenty of people who said no.” And I finally just ended up getting the right one that really was going to be producing and publishing the book that I really wanted to write.

Jason Harris: That’s awesome. Is it going to be Unstoppable?

Kara Goldin: I don’t … it will be Unstoppable. I’m not sure that that’s going to be the title but we’ll see. We’re still kind of working on the title of it. So I should know a lot more in the next couple of weeks.

Jason Harris: That’s awesome.

Kara Goldin: But we’ll keep you posted. I’m really excited to get your book and I briefly scanned … I’m a huge David Bowie fan too so I can’t wait to see that in there as well and hear more about his journey. It sounds like there’s a bit on that?

Jason Harris: Yeah. So David Bowie, I’ll just talk about it briefly, but he was the first when I was growing up, he was my musical idle and learning more about him and reading a ton up on David Bowie, he really sort of paved the way to letting people be themselves and fly their freak flags. You weren’t sure if he was male or female or which direction he was going. He always created new characters. He was just such a risky musician.

And when he started … and he actually his first job was in advertising which he soon quit … but when he started, he was pumping out albums that his record label wanted him to make and they were making them into a boring folk singer like Bob Dylan. Not that Bob Dylan is boring but he was emulating Bob Dylan, which wasn’t him. And he quit the label and went on this journey into … He went to a Buddhist monastery. He created an arts lab. He studied mime. He created all of these ways to really find himself.

And once he found himself, he became the original that he is. And that really resonated with me. And to be successful both personally and in business, you really have to lean into what makes you you and not shy away from it or cover up the messy parts but really lean into the whole thing, the whole ball of wax, that makes you who you are. And so, I talk a lot about how I learned that from him and he’s been a real role model.

Kara Goldin: I love it. I love it. Well listen, we’re going to end on that note, but just one other quick question. How could we support you? Where can we find you online?

Jason Harris: You can check me out on I’m @Jason_Harris on Twitter and Instagram. The website is thesoulfulart.com. You check out more on the book there and yeah, would love to hear from anyone. And this has been a real great conversation.

Kara Goldin: Yeah. Awesome. Good, all right. Perfect. Thanks again.

Jason Harris: All right. Thank you so much.