Adam Ross: Co-Founder & CEO of Heyday

Episode 361

Adam Ross knows a thing or two about skincare. The Co-Founder and CEO of Heyday shares all about how this skincare services brand stands apart. Started in 2015 in Manhattan’s NoHo neighborhood, Heyday is now the fastest-growing skincare services brand in the U.S. with plans to be across the country as we speak. Adam shares all about what is going on in the industry including the crazy growth that has returned to pre-pandemic levels. Adam’s lessons and wisdom are awesome and you won’t want to miss a word of our discussion. On this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow.

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be you just want to make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. It’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. And I am so excited to have my next guest. Here we have Adam Ross, who was the co founder and CEO of HeyDay, and he is an incredible, incredible entrepreneur. We’ll talk a little bit more about his experience, but heyday for those of you who are not familiar is the leading skincare services brand that offers terrific quick 15 minute personalized facials and I can say that I have been there and have enjoyed in the Tribeca location an awesome, awesome experience. They also have incredible, very progressive products in the store too. So all of the in the know products that you definitely need to know about are in the location. And in 2015, Ross launched the first shop in Manhattan’s no ho neighborhood, and it’s now the fastest growing skincare services brand in the US with over 10 company owned and there we’re going to talk a little bit more about the bustling franchise plan coming to go across the country as well. But with spa industry revenue returning to near pre pandemic levels, heyday assured of benefit from the consumer desire to take better care of themselves. Not only on the inside, but on the outside. And more than anything, I can’t wait to hear about Adam’s journey on how he got to growing such an incredible, incredible brand. So welcome.

Adam Ross 2:12
Thank you, Kara, excited to be here.

Kara Goldin 2:14
Very excited to have you. So I would love to hear your backstory. Did you always think that you were going to be an entrepreneur?

Adam Ross 2:22
I think at the risk of dating myself, Kara, it may have become apparent when I first watched pretty woman when I was probably eight or nine years old and wanted to be wanted to be Edward Lewis. So how’s that for an opening?

Kara Goldin 2:36
Oh, I love it. I love it. And did you What drove you into the skincare area?

Adam Ross 2:44
Yeah, I did. So I think after undergrad I ended up going into investment banking. And I focused on mergers and acquisitions for almost 12 years. And my focus within that was companies within the consumer products and retail sectors. And I literally did one and a half years current in Australia and then they transitioned me to you know, to New York and then over time and as you get a little more senior you end up specializing so I ended up focusing within beauty, I guess as a as a category within within consumer products and retail. So I ended up doing a lot of work with the likes of Revlon, Avon, you know, Gillette p&g, Lauder, L’Oreal and whatnot. So great foundation, I think great experience into what the big companies were doing from a from a product perspective. But I think that’s where the the lightbulb moments came to be on. There seems to be a very big disconnect between what companies are doing and pushing from, from a product and service perspective and what it is that the customer actually wants. So I think while banking was a foundation for me, that was incredible, and the right stepping stone, I think, you know, I wanted to sit on the other side of the table and roll up the sleeves and be involved in building building a brand and a business that delights and engages the customer.

Kara Goldin 4:05
So you had obviously worked with these big brands and you’re really a service business is that how you would describe yourself mostly at heyday?

Adam Ross 4:14
Absolutely, I think it was. I think when I looked at the skincare category and it still exists a lot to this very day it’s it’s almost got three very disconnected legs to the stool you’ve got you’ve got spa services. You’ve got you’ve got retail locations and they’re genuinely like big box stores like the alters the you know, the Sephora is and then you’ve got a lot of these brands that just sell products online. You know the letter to you know, 1000s and 1000s of products and it can be quite an overwhelming and confusing experience for people. Knowing that the facial is like the gold standard of a great skincare routine. We made the strategic decision to start with with a physical service and a physical experience knowing that you If you can ground the brand and like the expertise and the service, that is such a core part of the routine, and when you’re, you know, you’ve got somebody in the treatment chairs you can relate to for 15 minutes, and you can touch and you can feel and understand their skin, it puts the esthetician in a really strong position to ultimately recommend what products are right for that person for that routine that they’re going to like apply to their skin, you know, every day for the next month or so until they come back and see us again. So can appreciate that a lot of products, you can buy in different places, but because very few customers know what their skin type and conditions are, what works for you may not necessarily work for the other person. So, you know, we don’t just personalize the facial, but we personalize the products that go into what that routine should be until they come back again. And that’s the that’s the 360 experience we’re looking to create here.

Kara Goldin 5:51
And I love the products that you carry, too, because they’re not products that you typically see. So they’re, you know, progressive, but they’re actually very boutique key. And obviously, many of these brands probably don’t have a services business, that they can actually showcase how their brand works.

Adam Ross 6:10
Now, it’s such a great point. And for us, we’ve got a pretty rigorous process in terms of onboarding, new brands and products. And it certainly helps when we’ve got hundreds of esthetician so we get their their input as well. But what we try and do is, is have much more of a curated assortments and making sure that at every sort of category of of skincare, we’ve got the right the right variety that can address skin type, concern and price point. But I think we’re in a very privileged position to be working with some some fantastic brands. And I think the ability to offer some exclusives and products that we can get before others. You know, he’s all an important part of brand discovery and, you know, giving, giving your clients a reason to come back and see us.

Kara Goldin 6:55
So you were on the investment banking side, as you mentioned before, and watched a lot of other people build brands, what do you think is the toughest thing that you’ve realized and building your own brand that maybe it’s not as easy as it seemed?

Adam Ross 7:13
I think if you ask any entrepreneur, if you knew today, what you knew, totally new five years ago, are you new today? Would you would you do it again? I would say, you know, in addition, I hate a specific point, I think for a lot of us, but I look back, and I think we’re in an incredible time and place today is that the client wants to give us feedback. And they want to give brands that they engage with feedback on how they can improve what they should stop doing what they can doing. And I you know, if I look back and critique, you know, how I’ve operated in the past, I think one one area would be I’d hate to think of the the the countless number of hours I’ve wasted sitting around the boardroom table arguing about what it is we think the customer wants, got to test it. So it doesn’t matter what you think, or what I think it’s like what’s going to resonate with the market and resonate with our clients. So, you know, we’ve, we’ve adopted a much more agile framework around where we can test and learn, whether it’s new products, whether it’s new services, and get this feedback. And you’ve got you’ve got a number of hypotheses where you think something is going to work. And it does, right. There’s others, though, when you don’t think they’re going or you think they’re going to work. And they don’t, that’s also great. And so you stop doing it and then move on to something that they can then well, but there’s been a few little like insights and surprises that we’ve gotten that not in 100 years, we have thought of sitting around the boardroom table. And those those little nuggets are really profound. And little things can go a long way, you know, around elevating the experience, elevating the service. And again, it all comes back to delivering on what the client needs because the bar for how brands need to execute today, it’s never been never been higher.

Kara Goldin 8:57
What’s one example where you were surprised if you remember over the last couple of years?

Adam Ross 9:04
And let me let me give an example that inform this because, again, I think I can I can I could give you so many examples, Kara. And a lot of our team and a lot of our backgrounds, we’re all a plus personalities, we there’s a general tendency with like schools or other jobs or wherever we’ve been in our backgrounds to overcomplicate and to overanalyze a lot of things. And I remember actually reading a piece and it was it was a light bulb for me, but goes back to where Nokia had this like leading market share in mobile phones, you know, back in the back in the late 90s. And then other competitor entrants would were coming in and eroding their market share and they weren’t sure what to do. And they were like over speaking and over over engineering a lot of things then they went out and did some research in the field and the feedback from the customer was we just want different colored phones. So they brought out reds and pinks and yellows and right that took them to a whole new level. So you know With with heyday, that was a great reframe. And I’d share the story with the team around, okay, let’s look at all all ends of the customer experience. And, you know, for us there were just like little, little hospitality moments around the around the water around like the mobile phone charger and little something that could like clean the mobile phones. So there was some things that were actually quite ancillary to the service itself, but it just it rounded out the experience. So, you know, in some cases, you know, and I generally look at things through it through like an effort impact matrix around prioritizing the team’s work and what we choose to do. And there can be a lot of default behavior that goes to somebody’s going to be high impact on a business, it’s going to be high efforts. And in some cases, like the golden, the golden outcome is where you can get to high impact with, like, low to minimal effort. So you know, how we’ve introduced a couple of new services that again, didn’t seem as as necessarily shiny or sexy to us, but it was what the customer wanted, you know, quick, easy wins. So I think it’s always, it’s always humbling to do what you can to understand where is the customer coming from? And how do I anticipate not just delivering on their needs next week, but what are they going to be wanting next month?

Kara Goldin 11:16
Yeah, I think that that’s, that is totally true. I, it’s funny in my previous life, and in tech, working at America Online, we used to do lots and lots of focus groups. And I got so tired of doing focus groups, because I didn’t really feel like it got me close enough to the consumer, even though there were people that were picked, that were consumers. And so our whole theory at the company I founded him was just to get it out there in the marketplace and see exactly what consumers say. And we’ve done that over and over again, for labels for design for flavors, and and just trying to figure out exactly, you know, what they’re thinking. So I love you know, that example, definitely, how you’ve been thinking about this, too. So when you’re creating a brand, you had your first store and Noho so you’re hanging shingle hay day, what are the things that you worry about? First, when creating a brand? your this is your first brand that you’re getting out there? And and like, what do you worry about?

Adam Ross 12:27
Oh, my gosh, how much time do you have? What was really interesting, around heyday, Kara was and just came from a lot of the categories and sectors that I looked at my banking days, but but spa services was one of those categories that I’d never seen a category that was so fragmented, that was operating a very outdated playbook and getting like really unsophisticated in, in the bar and what they were delivering on with customers. And as we, as we broke it down, there was this huge bifurcation between the the SPAS at the higher ends. And you know, the lot of higher end fixtures, amenities, fittings that went into the steam rooms, the showers, the, you know, the hot, hot teas and lemon waters and things that went into the experience. And then there was cheap, but sort of cheap in a bad way. And there was absolutely nothing in between. And I think as we peel back the onion, there was there was a huge opportunity to say there can be a trade off in price without a trade off in quality. And I think if I look at it Northstar brand that did that. So incredibly well. It was like Warby Parker. So that’s where there’s a lot of a lot of analogies to our brand, where they said, Hey, eyewear is just such a structurally challenged category, there is no reason why designer frames should be $400. They can be $95. And we can bring it to life with right a great great physical experience a great brand and this holistic this holistic exchange with the with the brand. So we’ve had a that was always the proposition. I think one of the bigger questions we had was, why hasn’t this been done before? Because the industry seems so. So challenged. And it seemed quite obvious to us. Because again, when you look at what goes into a facial and for us, when you take the facial out of the spa, and you reposition it in, you know, a footprint that’s half the size of the traditional spa that that heyday is, you know, design inspired gender neutral very, very, very difference. You take so many fixed costs out of the business, so you’re not you’re not required to charge these these high prices. So that was a big one, which was what are we missing? That may not set this business up for success and why hasn’t been done before? And then the second big one is who is our core customer? And are we are we out to take market share from incumbents are we out too to grow the market share through through clients who have never had a facial before. And the intent was to actually try and do try and do both. If we had to pick a lane, it would have would have initially been those that have had the odd facial before. But they couldn’t engage it with a frequently because like time cost and Baron sorry, time cost and convenience with these three barriers that were these huge friction points get in the way of regular engagement. So I think that coupled with the fact that, you know, skincare is self care, and that’s how we’re positioning our brand. I mean, it’s why we’re called heyday, you know, the sort of throwback term to being in your prime being your best being your best version of yourself. So I think we wanted to anchor away from Beauty and pampering indulgence and reposition with with, you know, self care and, and sort of a low usage, customer that will change into a higher frequency, customer, and all of that just plays in getting product market fit, right, that then lets us scale, scale the opportunity across across the country.

Kara Goldin 16:08
So how many stores do you have now?

Adam Ross 16:12
So we have 22 locations. today. We’ve got a pretty audacious plan of record this year. So if we’re speaking at a cocktail reception end of the year, we should be close to 50.

Kara Goldin 16:25
Oh, that’s amazing. That’s,

Adam Ross 16:27
ya know, very, very exciting, very, very, sort of bene bene II for the brand as we look to cement national national brand status.

Kara Goldin 16:36
It’s funny, we had Candice who is the founder of sprinkles cupcakes on and she was talking about how she that was a great podcast, you should definitely listen when they launched in Arizona. And how, you know, she’s very confident they were, they had already done the cupcake machine and in New York, I mean, they’re doing great. And then suddenly they got to Arizona, they were telling everybody to leave the cupcakes out. And she didn’t realize that cupcakes melt under heat. Extreme heat. And so, you know, she said that she learned the hard way they had to develop a whole new packaging. I mean, it’s just it’s what you learn as an entrepreneur. Maybe you never even heard those stories in your m&a and banking years. But I’m so curious, like, have you had any crazy stories? Crazy founder stories I call them that are you just can’t make this up? Right? You’re not You’re not really even, you’re not even sure who to tell? Their there’s so nuts, or maybe you know, also what you’ve learned about people’s skin, I would imagine, you know, in different parts of the US like it’s, there’s a lot, there’s many different needs

Adam Ross 17:56
to it’s such a great point around a canvas. And I think for a lot of brands, as we’re thinking around national expansion. It’s not a productive use of time to perfect a model in one state when you’re then going to take it to another state. So it’s always what’s the 80 for 20. Knowing that I’m going to see some things that I’m going to need to like adapt and be flexible to so for heyday, it’s it’s I think what we’ve seen is the biggest difference between California and New York for example, is obviously just where there’s there’s time of year differences around you know, around sort of dryness and and whatnot. So you know, skin goes on different foot on different I’d say journeys, you know, New York, there’s, there’s a huge trend to sort of exfoliation, and things come the end of the summer, you know, in September, you know, we don’t really see that until until December in Los Angeles. So there’s some there’s some time of year differences. But I was speaking to a friend of mine, and she has a nail business. And what surprised me was women in new law, New York like to get manicures and pedicures done separately. But in Los Angeles, they like to get them done together. We don’t have anything like that in our business. So there hasn’t been any, I think fundamental shift in in customer behavior. We are very data driven. So around, you know, product, price points, subcategories, you can see little nuances, and that helps us adjust what we stock at the front of of each location. But in some cases, there’s nuances. Generally, or again, we’ve got time of year differences. And that’s got implications for certain categories like oils or moisturizers or sunscreen. So I’d like to say fortunately, we’re quite uneventful relative to what some other brands probably go to. Just knowing that service and people are sort of our main main ingredients.

Kara Goldin 19:50
I love that you guys have later hours, too because I think for some reason that trend of you know closing at six o’clock has VA has for the spa industry across the US. Maybe in New York. It’s been later. But I feel like across the US, it’s been, you know, shut down earlier when I think most of the people who are working during the day would actually love to come in more in the evening.

Adam Ross 20:17
No, it’s such a fantastic point. Like I said, back in the initial research, when we were forming the concept and what we wanted to address time, cost and convenience with these, these friction points that kept coming up. And when we actually opened the first location, we were open seven in the morning to 10 at night, actually, all the way through to, you know, COVID. I’ll tell you cordite, the busiest hours in our business were 5pm to 10pm.

Kara Goldin 20:47
I totally believe it. So it’s, I mean, that’s what I’ve I’ve seen over and over again. And sadly, I think there’s parts of the US that just have not sort of jumped into that. And I think there’s definitely consumers there that would love it. And you guys will do super, super well. Also, you and I were touching on this a bit. But the franchise model, I’m fascinated by it. I can’t say I know a ton about franchising. Why did you guys decide to start in that direction?

Adam Ross 21:17
Yeah, we we made the strategic decision to franchise back in 2019. And I think one of the one of the big reasons in forming that decision, Kara was the fact that we’re such a incredibly heavy labor centric business models. So any any one location, on average, probably has 25 to 30, estheticians, we think, got a shop manager, we’ve got front desk hosts, we’ve got, you know, got a laundry, laundry attendants. So very, very labor heavy. And I think we’ve worked so hard to create the right sort of experience that we want our clients to have with with our 10 owned and operated doors. So the thinking behind that was we just we wanted partners that had skin in the game to, you know, uphold and enhance the experience that we worked so hard to, you know, to create, and that was going to create a more consistent and better client experience across the country. As we did more research into the right businesses that had franchise Well, it was interesting, if you look across all the metrics that franchise doors generally outperformed their own and operated counterparts on so it wasn’t just, you know, more top line revenue was more top line returning revenue was higher client satisfaction, it was lower team turnover. So it didn’t really matter what metric you looked at. The franchise locations generally check the box and outperform company owned and operated doors. So for us, it just felt like a really great division of labor, because there’s so many talented owner operators out there across the US, it’s like, let’s set them up with a playbook that they can execute better than we can. And then it frees up resources, you know, within the heyday side to leaning more on service innovation on product innovation, you know, other things that elevate the brand and the you know, the overall customer experience. So, you know, for us, we spent the last, you know, the last couple of years really building that foundation, I think the one of the silver linings of franchising as well is your can’t scale exceptions. So it just forces you to be really, really honed in and clear on like your SOPs, where we simplify where we codify in a way that it’s very easy to, to explain and have partners adopt. So last year was a was it was a really important year for us where we opened 12 franchise locations, like I said, with the number will be closer to 3030 this year. So I’d say still getting our sea legs on how we how we open and set our partners up for success. But I think couldn’t be more energized to to grow and feel that’s really going to drive a much better experience engagements, you know, across all locations.

Kara Goldin 24:03
I was saying to another entrepreneur yesterday, I feel like being an entrepreneur and being a founder. It’s maybe I’ve been listening to too many conversations about chat, the whole chat GTP stuff, but it’s like, I feel like, you know, you have to accept that you’re living an algorithm, right? That you’re just adding on and adding it and getting better and making mistakes. And then you turn left to if you were going right, you know, it’s this clot and you have to be energized by that. Or you shouldn’t do this. You should stick with investment banking or do something else because it’s it’s crazy. And I’ve certainly got my own share of of stories and failures along the way. But I’m curious, what do you think knowing that you’ve been on sort of both sides of the table that the big characteristics of entrepreneurs that you have to in order to get up every day and do it all over again.

Adam Ross 25:03
Oh, I think I mean, entrepreneurs generally start businesses because they’re dissatisfied with the status quo. So I’d say generally, like any great business will come with, you know, if you ask the question, Why did you do this? Their answer is like, this is something that should exist. So they want to make something better. So I think there’s there’s an inherent growth mindset and intellectual curiosity around entrepreneurs and how you keep showing up and how you keep raising the bar and doing doing better. I think where I’ve tried to, to laning Karen do a better job is where you learn quickly, or fail quickly. And not that I actually necessarily like the term fail, I think it’s just like, where you learn if we if as a business, you’re going to try something that isn’t going to work? How can you do a week and know that in two or three weeks versus two or three months, because I think success is different problems. And the faster you move through one problem, and under the next one, and celebrate the velocity with which you move through that? I think, I think the better so I think with speaking to somebody else about this the other week, I think there’s this perception that entrepreneurs are inherent risk takers or mavericks and throw caution to the wind, I’ve actually found entrepreneurs to do the exact opposite. They’re actually very risk averse. So the question is, how can you d risk every every innovation or every step of the process until you know something’s there and then you can really lean in, put the put the investment or the team resources, whatever it is behind it, to drill it, let it let it grow and accelerate. So I, again, when I critique my own performances, where there’s been misses that it took me six months to learn versus, hey, if I thought about this a little differently, I could have known about that five months ago, that would have let us then move on to something else. And I think success with with not just our business, but with any entrepreneur or businesses today is where is there that scorecard that you can always look at and report back to the team or your pull back to the board? You know, here are the 10 things we tried. And it’s okay if like six or seven of them are, you know, horribly, nothing burgers or doughnuts, like the one or two or three things that work when they work, they’re going to be profound. And then it’s how you keep like moving through that. And, you know, the agility that goes into those learnings I think is what, what’s ultimately going to drive the competitive advantage that all of us are seeking to, to establish and create.

Kara Goldin 27:36
Yeah, definitely. I always think about these challenging periods of time, obviously, the pandemic is, you know, hopefully behind us, we all learn lessons, for sure. But I always tell entrepreneurs, that it’s like a badge that you’ve been through it, or at least been through a really challenging time, I think were not everybody was prepared as much as maybe they thought, because it was certainly unique. And for your business, the services business and multiple states to you had to deal with a lot of different opinions about, you know, how and whether or not they should even be open. So what was kind of the big learning for you the big takeaway that you’ll add to your journey, as you’re sort of thinking about your business in order to be as ready as possible?

Adam Ross 28:32
I think, for us, it was, I’d say I was agility, and we’re in a business that was obviously incredibly impacted. And in our retail locations as a reference point, Kara, we’re closed anywhere from seven to 16 months. So we essentially closed and had to, like, reopen a business from, you know, from scratch. So I think there’s, there’s decisiveness and intentionality around decision making. And then again, how you set yourself up as we’ve been touching on to, to test and learn and keep delivering on what it is that like the customer or what the team actually wants. And, again, I think we’ve got a brand at hayday that can be spoilt for choice. And you’ve always got to like rein things back through the through the alignment of priorities around doing fewer things better. So I’m all around a report card that has three A’s versus versus six C’s, which has this inherent tension, because as an entrepreneur, you always want to say like, next Yes, let’s do that. Yes, yes. Yes. And, I mean, I mean, Steve, Steve Jobs, he had this wonderful quote that I’m, I’m going to butcher here a little bit, but, you know, it’s along the lines that strategy and innovation. You know, he’s also saying no to, no to 100 things. So I think where you, you know, for us, we’ve been a lot more focused and streamlined on and clarity on Northstar and just like doing a few things well, where we sort of test on We’re on our way to keep improving on that. And I think the clarity that comes with those milestones and like the learnings along the way, these are all like the precious moments that you celebrate with the team as well. You know, it gives it gives gratitude, recognition and, you know, keeps us keeps us all moving forward and, you know, inspired about the, you know, about the broader mission.

Kara Goldin 30:23
I love that. Yeah. And I think that there’s, there’s definitely, there are things that are beyond our control. So I think there’s, you know, certainly for, for me, as an entrepreneur, that’s what I’ve seen that there are certain things, maybe a customer decides that you’re not going to work with them anymore, or you’re, you know, you hit the pandemic, or something happens, where I think you just have to figure out what can you do? And that’s the best entrepreneurs, you know, question that they throw out there. And Steve, who, I’m such a huge admirer, and worked for a startup, that was one of his ideas that was spun out of apple in the 90s. So there was a lot of his thinking, just from people, I didn’t work directly for Steve, but people who had worked with him, and I think listening to the customer, or making it simple, there’s so many things that I see and what you guys are doing and how you’re getting the brand out there that is very much similar to kind of that thinking as well. Well, last question, so a life lesson that you’ve learned along the way.

Adam Ross 31:44
Communication. And I say that in terms of, again, with with with work, it’s, it’s, it’s easier, but I’d say I used to have like one or two, communication or like leadership styles with with my team, and you need to be far more adaptive and meet people where they are. And that requires a whole different toolbox of, of tools of communication, but I think as that parlays into, you know, personal life, and, you know, family and friends and partners and relationships as well. I think there’s, and I think work just in terms of exposure to so many incredible people has actually really empowered me to, you know, show up and I think be far more communicative and transparent about, you know, what’s what’s up here in my mind versus what I think communicate so probably like a stranger answer that you might be used to. But

Kara Goldin 32:40
no, I now, I love that. Yeah. And I think it’s really looking deep inside yourself. Right to to know that you need to be responsible for that, because I think that that is, that’s not one that we hear many leaders talk about, but I think it is really a key key one, for sure. So Well, thank you so much, Adam. This has been amazing. You’ve done an incredible job of building Hay Day, and I encourage everybody to find hay day by you, heyday. And definitely check out all that great products that they carry in the stores too. But thanks again, Adam. Thanks, Kara. Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would, please give us a review. And feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit and of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my book undaunted, which I share my journey, including founding and building hint. We are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And thanks everyone for listening. Have a great rest of the week, and 2023 and goodbye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening