Jan Marini : Founder & CEO of Jan Marini Skin Research

Episode 337

Jan Marini, Founder and CEO of Jan Marini Skin Research, is an icon in the professional skincare industry. Today her products are used worldwide to treat common skin conditions such as aging and sun-damaged skin, acne, and rosacea. Jan Marini pioneered the use of glycolic acid to improve the skin’s appearance and texture. She was also the first to market a stable topical vitamin C technology to promote healthier skin. Jan’s innovations in cosmetic eyelash enhancement launched an important new beauty category. Jan has taken multiple ideas that she is curious about and passionate about and turned them into not only a reality but fledgling businesses. I can’t wait for you to hear all about her entrepreneurial journey to growing this amazing startup, her tips for other entrepreneurs, and the lessons learned along the way. Her story of building this incredible beauty business is inspiring, and you won’t want to miss this episode! On this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow.

Resources from
this episode:


Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. It’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. And I am so excited to have my next guest here. I am so inspired by this woman, this serial entrepreneur that we have with us here today. So Jan Marini is the founder and CEO of Jan Marini, skin research. But like I said, she’s a serial entrepreneur. She’s done a lot of amazing, amazing, great things. And she is here today to chat with us about really sharing all of her wisdom, what she’s learned along the way, and then obviously talk to us a lot about her existing incredible product that you have probably seen in stores. But if you haven’t, you should definitely figure out how to get a hold of it. And we’ll talk more about that and have everything in the show notes. But her products are available worldwide. She’s really been an icon as I mentioned, but really known for treating common skin conditions such as aging and sun damaged skin, acne rosacea, she’s pioneered the use of glycolic acid to improve the skin’s appearance and texture. She was also the first to market a stable topical vitamin C technology to promote healthier skin. And her innovations and everything from cosmetic eyelash enhancements, is really what makes her I think so. So interesting. I’m so curious about so much of what we’re going to talk about today that I cannot even wait to hear more. So without further ado, welcome, Jan.

Jan Marni 2:18
Thank you. It’s it’s really a pleasure to be here. And thank you for all the kind words.

Kara Goldin 2:22
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I’m always so excited when I have great entrepreneurs and serial entrepreneurs on here, but also lady bosses, which is what I really view you as so you’re such an icon, and very, very thrilled that you’re here. So for those who are not familiar with Jan Marini products, can you share a little bit more about them?

Jan Marni 2:44
Well, I guess probably the best way to put it is that, you know, one of the questions I get asked a lot is number one, do I use my own products? Yes. And the second thing is, you know, why do I do all the research and development and read all the medical journals. And I always say it’s because I don’t want to have adult acne, I don’t want rosacea, I don’t want this coloration I’d like to hopefully keep my skin as you know, youthful looking as long as I possibly can. And I always say I don’t want another product, I want a solution. And that’s really what it’s been from the beginning. It’s not about products, the average woman has about $700 in product in her bathroom that she doesn’t use. It’s really about real solutions. And that’s always what I’ve predicated all of the research and development on

Kara Goldin 3:27
what is the kind of the go to product in your line. I know that you have steps along the way. But is there one that you’re really, really known for in your product line.

Jan Marni 3:37
So I would say at the basis of everything that we do is called a skincare management system. So it’s a it’s a box that I always say it’s a cleanser, and a sunscreen and three products in between. And I could be talking with a world famous physician or I could be talking with an ALA celebrity. And that’s the starting point for everyone. And usually the question is, well, how can we all have different concerns beyond the same product, and it’s because of a kind of a layer technology and I can get really technical but I won’t. But there’s a product called Bio clearness glycolic salicylic and as like acid as like acid is sold by prescription for acne. So by prescription for rosacea, one of the best resurfacing agents we’ve ever seen for fine lines and wrinkles, the pigment lifting agent, then you have glycolic which works for acne and aging and a multitude of different skin concerns and you have salicylic so when I put those three together in a very novel formulation, you literally have a product is probably the best I’ve ever seen for home care for being able to address so many different skin concerns. And that’s kind of the skincare management system that’s sort of the basis of it is being able to literally transform virtually any skin concern and then there’s an adjunctive products that really focus even more specifically on different skin concerns. Hackney and realization discoloration, you know, just all the things that we are We’re all concerned about.

Kara Goldin 5:01
So you’re a serial entrepreneur, as I was doing research on you, I saw that I guess your first brand, which you sold back in 1994, was MD formulations. Did you ever think that you were going to start a brand and then sell it? Did you always know that you were going to be an entrepreneur?

Jan Marni 5:20
I think I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. But I have to tell you, I looked at skincare, even though it’s been a passion, literally my whole life. I’ve been a product researcher for well over 40 years, I kind of had this mindset that it was sort of altruistic. In other words, I’m doing this because I want to educate people. And I would lecture in colleges, and I would lecture all over and I would do radio and television. But at the time, when I was doing was really prolifically doing this, I owned a company that provided training to high tech companies wasn’t even skincare. Because I separated the two, this is how I’m going to have make revenue. And this is my passion. Well, what happened was I was I started doing a radio program and my expertise, my focus was in ingredients. And so in this radio program, which had a huge following. I, they they brought me on, and it was such it was so well rated that they brought me back and then I was on every two weeks for as much as two hours. And people would call in and ask questions about ingredients. Well, individuals started to track me down, and they wanted to come to me in person, I said, Gee, thank you, I that that’s just not what I do. That’s not my business. But there were a couple of individuals that had very interesting concerns. And one was somebody who was a cancer patient, they were on a drug that was creating a lot of skin problems, and other one was kidney dialysis. And the heparin port was giving them acne. But anyway, so I decided I would see them. And I, from an educational standpoint, and I recommended things in the marketplace, I didn’t have my own products. But what I did is I came up with a process. And this was really important, because when you’re trying to engage people, being able to make them feel comfortable, and being able to establish credibility, and also establish excitement and create a bond. And I, first of all, I really enjoyed the process. And my former husband said to me, you know, you’re really missing the boat, because this is something you should be doing. And you should be offering product. And I said, How can I offer product, because then I wouldn’t be objective. And I ended up bringing in mixing bases, and literally in extracts and mixing my own products. And I would see two people in the morning, two people in the afternoon, I sold off my training organization. I saw two people in the morning, two people in the afternoon. So it wasn’t, you know, horribly labor intensive. And at the end of the first year, I was going at the rate of over a million dollars a year after cost of product. Wow. So I knew I was onto something and I was headed for to me in the next year. And at that time, I was pioneering glycolic acid and glycolic acid, you couldn’t walk into a drugstore department store and get glycolic acid and is this commercial. You can get it for cleaning stains off your driveway grease out of car engines, there were two doctors Dr. Ruja and Dr. Van Scott, who are pioneering it and using it for for repealing face fields. And they were actually getting their product out of one little pharmacy in New York. I mean, it just wasn’t available. And so I really started to work with it, and literally making formulations by hand working with glycolic acid, and I knew I was onto something. And I was working with a compounding chemist and he said, you know, Jan, he said just you might want to know just for the sake of interest that there’s seems to be some patents out there. And that those were actually the patents from Dr. Wu, you and Dr. Van Scott, but they weren’t really marketing it commercially. And so I tracked down a pharmaceutical firm that was licensed under them little pharmaceutical firm, and does really was licensed just because they happen to be friends with the doctors, the doctors thought that lactic acid was going to be the most commercial and that’s what they were really they licensed it to a company called Westwood. And like hydrogen was a prescription product at that time. I actually ended up talking with this pharmaceutical firm, and I said, Hey, can you make a product for me? And they said, our licensing agreement doesn’t allow us to do third party manufacturing. I thought about and I came back to them. I said, Well, what if I distributed it but the product was under one of your names? Well, that’s an interesting idea, but we can’t afford to do it. And then I said okay, what am I financed? And that’s how MD formulations MD forte actually came into being. And I made a decision that I was going to market it through physicians. Now it wasn’t because I had some magnificent vision for the future that this was you know the wave of the future but you try to go into a department store is on godlee cost and you’re competing people walk into a department store. And immediately you’ve got, you know, 200 competitors. So I really felt that physicians were ideally suited, since they’re working with obviously working with so many different skin conditions ideally suited to market product. And nobody was doing it. I mean, it was unheard of this was 1989 Going into 1990. Yeah, you

Kara Goldin 10:24
are definitely a pioneer in that and bringing it into doctors offices.

Jan Marni 10:30
Well, it was probably the most daunting, I think time I’ve ever had in any career in any business, because doctors, for the most part, at that point, were just absolutely incensed. They were offended that somebody would say, you want me to sell and they call it cosmetics out of my office. And I have a philosophy. And it is that your business success is not based on your last sale, it’s based on your first sale, you only have to do it once. It’s proof of concept. If you do it once, you can do it over and over and over again. And you can keep doing it better. You only have to do it once, I only need to find one doctor to demonstrate this was a viable concept. And in the beginning, even the American Academy of Dermatology came out and said, Well, we’re not going to take your license away doctors if you dispense but we don’t approve of this. So everything was against it. And of course, that’s history, because now who doesn’t dispense product, totally. But it was it was challenging. And then it started to snowball on up, I’ll tell you one thing that was on my side is something that I think we all have dealt with that is a negative, but it was a positive at the time. And that was managed health care. Because physicians, you take a dermatologist, maybe they charged $60 for an appointment, and then manage health care. Now it’s gonna give them $15. But they still have the same overhead, the same payroll. And so you had to look for ways to have discretionary income. So there was kind of that little bit of serendipity going on there.

Kara Goldin 12:02
You should know what that sound is here that that’s your sign to this year. Finally, forget about those run of the mill resolutions and instead do something you have always dreamed of doing. Start your own new year’s resolution by finally opening that store and selling on Shopify. Shopify makes it simple for you to sell to anyone anywhere. It’s the commerce platform revolutionising millions of businesses worldwide, whether you’re selling hint water or vintage tees, Shopify makes it simple. You know what else Shopify is great for helping businesses connect with their consumers. They power millions of businesses from first scale to full scale by helping them set up their online store in the vibe you want. But they also help you to get traction, gain new consumers and get the data you need to operate your business in a simple and fast way. And with Shopify, you can synchronize your online and in person sales and view all your sales metrics in one place, reaching more consumers through social platforms like Tiktok, Facebook, and Instagram, through Shopify as growing suite of social media channel integrations is a breeze. Shopify has all the sales channels sorted. So your business keeps growing from an in person POS system to an all in one e commerce platform. And if you’re looking for a solution that has a great customer service support system Shopify has that to their team is always super helpful answering any questions that I have had and growing my business, their team really makes you feel like they have your success in mind. Join me and millions of other businesses on Shopify today and take your business to the next level, sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/kara. That’s all lowercase, go to shopify.com/kara to take your business to the next level today. shopify.com/kara you’re really talking about the importance, right of what you were bringing them you were bringing them another revenue stream, and you were really one of the first. So I think that one of the things that I found that is so interesting about you in particular is that you’re a visionary, you’ve got ideas, you know, you you seem to be ahead of the curve. And sometimes when you’re ahead of the curve, you know, you’ve got a lot of doubters who are saying, oh, you know, what is this glycolic acid and vitamin C and how can you make lashes grow all of these things? How do you get past those doubters, you’ve shown that you’ve got the ability to get back up again when you’re sort of down but everyone has those down days. Right? And I think being a visionary founder when I came out with the idea for an unsweetened flavored water, I heard many buyers saying who needs an unschool Eat and like there’s diet sweeteners, there’s nothing wrong with diet sweeteners. To your point, you just need one or two, and you need the consumer. Yeah, to really bring in. But I’d be curious to hear what you would say to that?

Jan Marni 15:14
Well, you know, it’s a really interesting question, because first of all, where I get a lot of my ideas, is for medical journals. And so, and it’s not just journals that are on dermatology or plastic surgery, but it could be oncology or general medicine, all kinds of specialties. And so typically, there is definitely some, I mean, there’s a lot of science, a lot of validation behind the products. But it’s different when you take something that maybe is theoretical, or hasn’t been used topically and you put it into a topical setting. And of course, there’s things like well, does it penetrate? And is the molecule too large and on and on and on? And their, their answers for that very good answers. And, and I can, I can speak to any scientist or any physician and definitely hold my own. But the bottom line is, doesn’t work when you use it. So as an example, there’s no cure for acne, Accutane is not a cure for acne, but we get complete total clearing, we’re able to manage it, there’s no cure for rosacea, we’re able to manage it, there’s no cure for discoloration, we’re able to manage it. And skincare in general, there’s a lot of doubt in general with skincare, don’t we call it, you know, hope in a jar miracle in a jar? Sure. But you we have five studies that have been published in a peer reviewed medical journal, The Journal of drugs and dermatology, now it can take months or years to get into a peer reviewed medical journal, it’s highly scrutinized, it has to be of significant importance to the medical community, you don’t see skincare products in there. So that that kind of validation over the years, and the fact that we really are able to achieve tremendous results have given us a lot of credibility, right, and a lot of enthusiasm in the medical community.

Kara Goldin 17:03
But I just mean for you personally, like when you’re coming up with these ideas, when no one else is doing that idea, right? And people are like, This is crazy. How do you keep going? Right? You’re you’re facing people who are saying, I guess maybe they’ve seen it before. They’ve seen you predict the future before and and maybe it gets easier, but it’s got to hurt sometimes. I mean, it’s gotta you know, you’re like, When are these people going to get it?

Jan Marni 17:34
Well, you know, I really started in the physician community, and then I kind of opened it up to the bison skin. Yeah, professional. And I’ll tell you, the licensed skincare professionals is it’s just an absolutely marvelous, amazing community. And I, I, I owe them so much. I don’t know if I would be in the same position that I am today if it weren’t for them. And you know, when you have when you’re working with physician, let’s say you go to a physician’s office and you have some ailment, and the doctor says, well care, I’m going to prescribe you penicillin. Let me tell you, I love penicillin. It’s my favorite drug. I take it even when I’m not sick, because I love it so much. And it makes me look good. You never hear a doctor say that. They work with 1000s of drugs, and they’re very objective. But estheticians, if you’ve ever talked to your skincare professional and said, Well, you know, what should I use? Or what do you use, and they go on and on about how wonderful that product is. And it’s not so much about the science, the science has to be there with our products that is there. But it’s also about that passion, that they’ve used it, they love it. And they have seen extraordinary results among hundreds, or 1000s of their clients. And so I think what keeps you going is that belief and that word of mouth, and the fact that it’s adopted, and it’s constantly you get that constant reinforcement that people actually see, literally, life changing results.

Kara Goldin 19:09
But I feel like so often, you know, there’s this education component. And there’s this frustration, right, where you’ve got to get people to catch up to where you’re at, right. And I’ve often said to that often when you’re the only one that’s actually doing it, which I’m sure has been the case with some of your products a little bit, you know, it’s good to have competition, right? Because then it brings the category awareness to light. But nonetheless, I’m sure it’s been challenging at times when you’re the only one talking about it.

Jan Marni 19:39
You know, I can’t leave out the fact that I’m bullheaded and persistent. I mean, I don’t I’m you. I’m sure you know what that’s like, but it’s just it’s like wearing blinders. And people can be throwing things at you and you just kind of just keep going and it’s it’s it’s just that persistence. I’m just relentless. Yeah. So I think that’s, that’s, that’s a good thing. But sometimes it can be a negative challenge. And I think that that is certainly part of it. That’s probably an entrepreneurial trait that many entrepreneurs have. And in also just the fact that it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s fun to create something, it’s

Kara Goldin 20:19
to be a creditor, I, I agree, I’ve never

Jan Marni 20:22
had a child. But I’ve heard people say that, you know, when you’re going through childbirth, sometimes you think I never want to have another child. But when it’s over, you only think about the good things. And that’s kind of you know, there have been huge challenges along the way. It’s, it’s sometimes it’s terrifying. But overall, it’s so exhilarating. It’s the most wonderful, exhilarating ride, to be able to create something.

Kara Goldin 20:45
So you’re a creator, and I love hearing your description of a creator, as we speak. Would you describe yourself that way that you are definitely you’re a builder, you love creating things?

Jan Marni 20:56
Yes, I think one of the reasons I love being an entrepreneur is because it gives me the option of being able to do so many different things. So in the early days, if I was going to write an ad, I’d sketch it out. And I’d write the head myself. Developing product, I’m running an organization, all of those things. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m really terrific at every single one of those things. But I love being able to deal with things. And like a lot of entrepreneurs, I love being in control. Now, that’s good. And that’s bad. Because at some point, if you’re going to grow, and you’re going to be a world class company, one of the biggest mistakes entrepreneurs make is they can’t let go. And you have to be able to let go. And you have to kind of focus in on what are the things that you really are the best at that you’re the most passionate about. And it can’t be everything can’t be running HR, and running, accounting, and running shipping. And you have to be able to find individuals that you can trust, and that are really talented and maybe a lot more talented than you are in certain areas that are able to take that organization and build that infrastructure. That’s a difficult thing. That’s probably one of the hardest things I’ve ever done.

Kara Goldin 22:11
So you’re talking about building a team and bringing in people into your organization to help you build your child, I guess, to go back to what you were saying earlier, it’s hard. It’s really, really challenging. How do you find people that will do that, but also continue to keep the mission and keep the purpose of the brand? Because I feel like you have a reason for launching your products, scientific, but oftentimes, like as time goes on, the quality of products get eroded and and people cut corners. And I interviewed lots of different founders, and I’ve heard so many stories in different industries, how, you know, the products change over time, like how do you find people that are really going to be true to your mission and your purpose from the beginning?

Jan Marni 23:01
Well, the good news is, is that I still have control over product and the manufacturing and all that. But you know, finding people, that is really difficult. And when I kind of made that decision or had that awareness that I needed to find individuals that could run the day to day operations, so that I could spend more focus my my my energies into those other areas. That was hard. I kissed a lot of toes. And about 12 years ago, I found an extraordinary individual, John Connors, he’s our CEO. And he actually came from the laser industry. He took a que Terra public, which was, I think, the largest laser company at the time. And so he was very successful and an incredible leader. And he was kind of looking for his next venture, so to speak. And in a way you could have looked at our company, even though we were very successful. We’ve been out there for a while, was still kind of, in a way a startup because it didn’t have I mean, it had some infrastructure, but it didn’t have the infrastructure that we have today. And so I think you could see that would be a great challenge. But he also was someone who could grasp my vision. And he could execute it strategically, part by part, because, you know, you you look at that vision, and you say, Well, how do you execute that outside the US? And how do you execute it in this country? And how do you build a Salesforce? And how do you take that vision and instill it in every aspect of the company? And the culture? How do you build a coach culture and define it, and he is just an extraordinary leader and has kept that vision intact? If anything, he’s enhanced it. So I’m, I’m very blessed.

Kara Goldin 24:47
That’s a terrific way to describe it though, because you really do need somebody that is kind of can be the right hand whether they’re your CEO or some other aspect. So being an entrepreneur is one of the most chat challenging careers and you’ve actually you appear to have managed it with ease. But I’m sure there’s a story along the way where it was super challenging, and maybe you fell down. But obviously you got back up. And you learned a lot of lessons, I’d love to hear if there’s something in particular that comes to mind.

Jan Marni 25:20
I think probably the most anxiety provoking time, if anything that has ever happened to me in business is I had a chemist that I actually set up in business, who came from another firm, and literally finance them in the beginning. And we were their primary business. And at one point that chemists did some things really bad. And actually, I guess you could say, in shorthand, sold the formulas. And so I actually had contracts that stated that I owned my formulas. Now, usually, when people go to third party manufacturers, you know, you manufacture product, and it’s one of their formulas, or you might tweak it a little bit, but you don’t own it, but I own my. And so I started them thinking that, you know, this is black and white. Well, nothing is black and white, particularly in business. And it turned into a five year lawsuit, I was countersued and even in this ended up, it took five years to get it to court. We were in court for three months. I was actually in Oakland, I’m in Northern California. So you can imagine driving from San Jose to Oakland every day, for three months and still trying to run a business. And that and what jury wants to be on a jury. You think it was a murder trial for three months? I mean, this was this was one of the most scandalous trials that my attorneys had ever been in it. There was so many nuances.

Kara Goldin 26:49
Can you need to write a book I’m telling you, your Your stories are?

Jan Marni 26:54
They even told me they said, look, you’ll never know what a jury might decide, the jury might decide, hey, there’s something in here that you know you that it’s not going to go your way well went my way. It was unanimous jury verdict, there are punitive damages, we got a huge award. And it was so terrifying that entire time, because you don’t know. And so anxiety provoking, but in the end, I believe you’ve got to stand up for what’s right. And you’ve got to protect your business. And this also was everybody in the marketplace. It was a fight for everyone, because there were just things that were going on that were disreputable, in, in many, many facets of the industry.

Kara Goldin 27:35
So what are the lessons? What’s the big lesson learned from that?

Jan Marni 27:38
I just I think that fighting for what you think is right. But also in business. And I’m sure you can identify with this. You have to be so cautious with where you put your trust. And you know, when you’re starting out, and even when you’ve been in business for a while, in a sense, you make so many bargains without even realizing it. And maybe you have a little bit of a gut sense that something’s not quite right. But you feel you have to do it in order to move ahead. And I think one of the lessons that really taught me is that you, you have to be very cautious of who you trust. I’m with

Kara Goldin 28:21
you. Yeah, for sure. So the best advice that you’ve ever received?

Jan Marni 28:26
You know, I? It’s a great question. But one thing I will say, I think I’ve more in my business career had people tell me when I’ve come up with various business scenarios and ideas, that’s not going to work, you can’t do that. You can’t listen to people that tell you that. And you can’t spend your time focusing on when they say things like, well, there’s already too much competition in that area, or it’s never going to work because doctors are never going to do that or et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You’ve got to compete with yourself. So it’s really not so much about listening to advice is not always good advice out there, but it’s not always good. And you’ve got to create your own path. And the other thing is that I’m not a big believer in five year plans. Now, with that said, I know that my finance department and my CEO, they all have forecasts and plans that go way out. But when you’re starting off, you can sit there and you can obsess over I need to have everything mapped out. I need to know exactly where I’m going to be in a year from now and and how this is going to work. No, you just have to get out there and do it. You just have to get out there and do it. And any of my businesses, I never started out with financing. I got out there and I made something happen. And I come from, you know, I was I was born in San Diego at Mercy Hospital. My mom and dad took me home to my three brothers. We lived in a one bedroom house at the end of a dirt road, my brothers I lived in a dilapidated garage that was not connected to the house, three army cots on a dirt floor. So we My father died when I was eight, and we were beyond poor. So those things, you know, it, you if you if you’re waiting for somebody to finance something, or waiting for somebody to map it out for you or you feel you have to have everything laid out, it doesn’t need to be that way.

Kara Goldin 30:27
Yeah. Now you just try. And as somebody said to me in an earlier interview, if you keep trying, eventually it’s going to work out. It’s the people that keep showing up and keep doing it. Eventually, it’s going to work. And I’m a huge believer in that as well. Well, thank you so much, Jan, your wisdom is huge. Everybody needs to go out and try the terrific Jan Marini products we’ll have all of the information in the show notes is primarily available at doctors offices, but you can also get it at Massage Envy and also available online at the website. But again, we’ll have it all there. And it’s amazing. So thank you, Jan,

Jan Marni 31:08
thank you so much. It’s such a pleasure. Bye.

Kara Goldin 31:11
Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. Please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit and of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin and if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my book undaunted, which I share my journey including founding and building hint we are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks everyone for listening. Have a great rest of the week. And goodbye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book.com and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening