Jill Koziol: Co-Founder & CEO of Motherly

Episode 284

What does it take to create and scale an online destination that empowering mothers to get the info they need including expert content and innovative product solutions? You don’t want to miss hearing what Jill Koziol, the Co-Founder & CEO of Motherly, has to say. You will learn how she built an audience of over 40 million+ viewers per month with content filled with on-demand parent education classes as well as essays, articles and of course an engaged social media community. Jill is that great example of a Co-Founder and CEO who found that problem that she decided to try to solve. Her story of perseverance is one we can all learn from. This thoughtful and inspiring is fire! On this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow.

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone, it’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. And I am super, super excited to have my next guest. We have Jill Koziol, who is the co founder and CEO of Mother Lee with us here today. And motherly is an online destination empowering mothers to get the info they need with tons of amazing stuff, expert content and innovative product solutions all over the place. And they have also in a super, super engaged audience of over 40 million readers and viewers per month with an on demand parent education classes as well. And like I said before content, which includes essays, articles, and of course, that social community when you have those questions, as many parents, including myself have there the place So Jill is also the co author of two books, the motherly Guide to Becoming mom redefining the pregnancy, birth and postpartum journey. And this is motherhood and Mother Lee collection of reflections and practices. And I can’t wait to chat with Jill about her journey and building mother Lee. In my opinion, she’s a great example of a co founder and CEO who has led with purpose, figured out what problem needs to be solved and innovated along the way and the journey. So super, super excited to get going. So welcome, Jill,

Jill Koziol 2:11
thank you so much for having me, Kara. It’s an honor.

Kara Goldin 2:13
Really, really excited. So let’s start at the beginning. I would love to get a picture of Jill as a child. What did you think you would be doing when you grow up?

Jill Koziol 2:25
Oh, goodness. So I grew up in a pretty rural area in Southern Maryland. And I first generation college student. And my parents did always expect and set the standard that I would be going to college. So I dreamed pretty big from the beginning. I went from anywhere from wanting to be a pediatrician for paleontologists, you know, all over the place. But I also had the example of my father running a small business in the community. And I think was always inspired by seeing him as a leader in our community, and, and loves to watch him create something out of nothing that was impacting so many people in our communities. So think that little bit of entrepreneurship that bug was was always in me.

Kara Goldin 3:07
So growing up with a family of small business entrepreneurs, it sounds like you were super inspired by your father, did you have brothers and sisters, and obviously you had a mom,

Jill Koziol 3:22
too. I do. So I have three brothers, who all work for one of my father’s businesses in some way, shape, or form. And then my mom also actually, after a few years, working out side, the home on her own started working with one of my father’s businesses. So really, I’m actually the only one that now currently is not involved in some way in the family businesses, but was absolutely inspired by the commitment and really saw the persistence that’s necessary through it all. And I think that that’s helped drive me to build what I’ve built with motherly,

Kara Goldin 3:57
so great. So can you tell me a little bit more about your career backstory? So you had what was your first job?

Jill Koziol 4:07
Oh, so my first job I was a cashier at Tidewater Pharmacy, a local pharmacy in Southern Maryland. And I was 14 years old. I have always had a job since I was 14 years old. And so that was that was the first one and I ultimately was a pharmacy tech towards the end in high school, which was great. But you’re always doing that. But I actually then went to school for Political Science and International Relations focus. And so my and my graduate degree was in international security studies. So I went from that to doing international relief and development work, and then consulting work for a lot of government contractors and a lot of three letter agencies. So I’ve had like top secret SCI clearances and, you know, worked in the DC area for a long time, which is always surprising when people ask about that background and how in the world did I go from there to here.

Kara Goldin 5:01
Exactly. So you were doing this role in government before actually having children? And I mean, thinking back, what was kind of the biggest challenge you saw? And actually, you know, deciding that you want to have a family? And then also you had a career that sounded like it was, you know, pretty great. And what what was sort of the big challenge?

Jill Koziol 5:27
Yeah, it was, I was a Business Director in a in a boutique consulting firm doing really important work that mattered, supporting national security and in our country. And the thing as I was thinking about having a family with my husband, was, you know, the same question that unfortunately, every mother is faced with is like, how do I make this work? How do I maintain this career that I have worked so hard to have? How do I maintain that, while also, you know, giving my all to this, this new role that I intuitively knew would be the most important role in my life? And so I really struggled with thinking about travel and commute time. And you know, how to balance those things, while still not losing myself? And all of it? No, absolutely.

Kara Goldin 6:15
I remember that. So Well, when I was trying to work and and, you know, really kind of encouraged my career to go where I wanted it to go. But I also really felt the importance of having a family and spending more time with my kids before I was going to lose that time. So I absolutely understand that. So what led you to start a media company focused on motherhood.

Jill Koziol 6:44
So there was one stop in between my husband served in the military, he went to the Naval Academy and was a submarine officer. And as he left his military service, he went to Stanford for Business School. And that’s what moved us out to the Bay Area. And that is where that entrepreneurship bug really kind of latched onto me. And so when we moved, we had only a six month old, our daughter and I, within a month or two, I had identified a gap in consumer product and baby goods, where I was swinging my daughter at a playground where there were no baby swings, and it felt very awkward to be holding her and trying to swing it felt dangerous. And so I invented patented and brought to market with a co founder, a product called the swinging ease that converted regular playground swings to toddler swings. And so that was actually my first entree into entrepreneurship on my own, separate from my family, that was an opportunity to really cut my teeth and make all of the first time mistakes along the way. But I learned a ton. And I also really started to understand what it meant to market to moms, and to really understand, get out from behind myself as a mom and really look at what the needs were for mothers in the space. So then, a couple years later, when I received a call from my now co founder, Liz Kennedy, who is an award winning journalist and editor from the Washington Post, when she had this, this, you know, beginnings of an idea around creating a new modern brand for mothers, I felt really ready to go, you know, to jump all the way in, I felt that I had the experience that I needed, I understood how to see something to scale and you know, bring something to scale. And she had the media chops. So it was really coming together, focused on the needs that we were seeing in moms for moms, and then what we also had for ourselves. So that’s how the media part came into play.

Kara Goldin 8:46
So your name mother Lee. So what does that mean to you? And how did you decide to name your company motherly?

Jill Koziol 8:56
Oh, we we talk about this a lot, actually. Because it comes up frequently. For example, we just got like a final registration on the trademark like seven years in and I remember all of our, you know, high paid attorneys told us you’re not going to get motherly trademark, like it’s a word, you’re not going to be an owner word. And we do we have and I think in some part that just shows how undervalued motherhood is that it was even available, right as a word to be, you know, for someone to build something around that word for to be trademarked. We we were looking at how this generation at the time millennials and now Gen Z, were really redefining motherhood on their own terms. We knew, you know, I was taking my consulting background and looking at drivers of change. And I found that there there were three things about this generation that we’re really different and that we’re forever changing motherhood and families. And it is that one this is the first generation than women are more educated than men. So that changes everything. It’s the first generation of ditch Don’t natives. So that changes how they engage with each other with brands with content and their expectations online that weren’t being met. And then three, we knew that 2018 was quickly around the corner. And that that was going to be the time that we had the shift in demographics where the majority of births in the US are now of minorities. And so when you take these things that have changed, that forever changed motherhood, we felt that this generation needed to redefine motherhood, and therefore needed to redefine what it meant to be motherly, motherly, is defined as being nurturing and loving and caring. And that is not all that it is today to be motherly, totally me being motherly is learning how to nurture and not lose yourself and motherhood. It’s been strong and confident, and powerful, and loving and nurturing. It’s all of these things coming together to create a modern woman, who was also a mother.

Kara Goldin 10:56
Absolutely. And you touched on this right before we got started, too. But how, you know, especially when you are a mother, and you’re raising your children, what are you showing them right in the process and the strength? And I think that that is, when I talk to women across the US, you know, that have children? I think that it is something they put as a high priority value. For you know, what do you want your legacy to be? And it’s not just to people that are not in your family, but to your own family and your own children? I mean, it means a lot.

Jill Koziol 11:35
Absolutely. You want to lead by example, and lead with authenticity, so that your children can see that you’ve lived a full and intentional life, right in a way that they can aspire to, and I think in a different way, maybe than in the past mothers now are, are trying to show that we working mothers specifically that we don’t work because we have to necessarily, although financial reasons are very, very real for all of us in many cases, but it’s because it’s not making it just about that it’s about like, I’m really good at what I do. I really enjoy it, I’m making a difference in the world. And I’m providing financially for my family. And so leading by example, for all of those reasons. So that, you know, and saying like, I feel really lucky and blessed that I found a career that does that. And I hope you find the same. I love

Kara Goldin 12:26
that note. So great. So you founded mother Lee and 2015. And you touched on this just a minute ago with getting that trademark seven years later, we have very similar stories around that with the word hint for sure. But they say that women only get 2% of the VC money that is out there. Not sure what the stats are for mothers. Because I think there’s definitely a bias towards women who walk in the door for sure. And who have who have children, even if they’re not coming in with their stroller or baby. I think people are figuring it out. I certainly when we were raising money had questions from investors asking me when they knew that I had four children. When I started hands, they wanted to know who was taking care of the children. They never once asked my husband, who was our Chief Operating Officer, you know, who was watching the children, which is a whole other story. But can you share a little bit more about what that experience was for you and Liz to when you were out? Raising money?

Jill Koziol 13:38
Yes. So it was hard for all the reasons that you said, and just to have your listeners remember, 2015 looked a lot different than 2022. Thankfully, this was before the me to movement, this was before women really found their voices and I and demanded more of a seat at the table. And there were very, very few in Silicon Valley, especially a very tech focused place. There were very few partners or decision makers, the actual investors that we were meeting with. And so, you know, if you can picture this, we’re in Silicon Valley, very tech focused a lot of older white men in decision making positions. We walk in as to millennial mothers talking about motherhood and media. And so, you know, things were not going to start out well, right from the beginning. And without a great network, right? We weren’t we weren’t aligned with any of their pattern matching that they do to try to minimize risk. Right. We were a risk the moment we walked in the door. And so it was incredibly hard. And those first meetings were a less of a focus on the business and the market and what we could build and more of a focus on how we didn’t fit their their pattern. It was you know, oh, let me let me talk to let me talk to my wife about this. Let me ask my Secretary about this, instead of really looking at the fundamentals of the business in many cases, and it was so frustrating, it was so incredibly frustrating. Because I didn’t want to be given special treatment for being a woman or being a mother, I wanted to be given just equal treatment, and I wanted the business and the brand that I knew we could build, to be seen for, for what it was the traction that we had, and we kept being called motherhood was me. I mean, which is laughable now, because, you know, most women be, which is 50% of the population become mothers, once you become a mother, you are forevermore a mother and making decisions through the lens of motherhood. And we now have data to support that women are making mothers specifically are making 80% of the household and health care decisions in their families. Like we are an economic engine. And that was just being ignored in the beginning. And we really had to always do better and be better and over exceed expectations in order to even get in the door.

Kara Goldin 16:01
Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, we had this very similar situation, when we were raising money to when I shared with people that I had had an addiction to diet soda, we had more men who would say they weren’t diet soda drinkers. And so they would say, oh, gosh, I’ll have to talk to my wife about that. And I always say to entrepreneurs, if they actually say that they’re going to speak to somebody about something, the chances are very slim that they actually well.

Jill Koziol 16:32
Just look close that door. I mean, you have to kiss a lot of frogs before.

Kara Goldin 16:36
A lot of frogs. Yeah, but it’s the same story. And, you know, I was, I’ve became a quick study on it on, you know, was just a way to actually end the meeting,

Jill Koziol 16:47
right. And now, I just yesterday was, I tried to pay it forward and advise other women are in early stage businesses to talk through, like their fundraising process and the such. And they say, you know, in the beginning, it often feels, you know, you’re getting tons of feedback, right? It’s it’s constant feedback loop. But these investors, and you feel this natural desire to like, modify to what they want to hear, right, you’re in here, you’ve got the EQ, right, like, you can even kind of start to morph to that. But instead of thinking about how you can fit into their hold and fit through their gates, I really recommend that they, you know, flip, flip the perspective. So that really, if that’s, that’s not the kind of investor you want, right? Like, this is a long term relationship, in most cases with investors. And so you’re trying to see what gates they get through for you, like, hold that switch in your head? Because to your point, if they asked that question, or they make that point, like, let’s not waste anyone’s time, like they’re not right for you. Yeah, the other way around?

Kara Goldin 17:47
No, absolutely. And if you see signs that they’re going to have a hard time kind of getting their arms around your business run, right? Because that is just the either you’re gonna waste a lot of time trying to put a, you know, square peg in a round hole, or you’re going to be sorry, I think in the end that that they have partnered with you in some way. So absolutely. It’s so such critical learnings and advice there for sure. So you have founded a company or co founded a company and scale the company during a an incredibly crazy time. What are some of the big things that you’ve learned along the way? I mean, you had never been through a pandemic. Now you have, as I, like, just add that to the list of crazy that you’ve been through and survived. But what are some of the big things a couple of them that you’ve really learned about entrepreneurship.

Jill Koziol 18:52
So this, this pandemic, nearly broke me. It nearly broke motherly, and it nearly broke all mothers, you know, that disproportionately, especially working mothers, outside the home, we disproportionately carried the weight of this pandemic and the burden of it. And as a company employing 90% working mothers and on our staff. It was tough. This was absolutely the most challenging time for us. There were certainly days where I felt like I couldn’t go on. I moved my family from California and a community that I loved to Park City, Utah to get my children in school full time, because I needed that backstop. I needed that support structure in place so that I could work and then I could leave motherly. And so what are these, these challenging times? For mothers and therefore for mother Lee taught me a lot of really important lessons that I carry with me. One is a leader was to just lead often, you know, with author intensity, I think I, I know I spent my 20s and 30s as a leader, watching and picking pieces of what other people did, and, and trying them on for size to see what kind of leader I was. And I also care, you know, again, knowing that so few dollars go to women and especially to mothers, I also took on a more traditionally masculine approach in some ways to leadership. And that was not speaking truth to my power in a lot of ways. And so, during the pandemic, I showed up as my most authentic self as a leader. And I think that that showed with my team, I was vulnerable with them, I spoke to them at you know, explained the hard decisions that we were making from a financial and a staffing and all of these different things that we were doing. And that was a big lesson that I think I’ll always carry with me as to how to really connect directly. We’ve always been remote. We’ve been a 100% remote companies since 2015. But it was it, the fact that, you know, we weren’t skipping a beat with our team working from home. But we were impacted by the fact that now they were working from home with children without child care, and learning how to connect with them at a different level, requires more authenticity from me and for me to show up in different ways. So that that would be one. I also learned how to, because our team could truly without support and governmental support. And in many cases, family support, could not be as productive as they weren’t, once were, I had to work with them to radically prioritize, to understand what that really meant to, to let go of some things and just do the must dues, right and hold some of those candies and wish we could use for later to really radically prioritize, and then also learned the lesson of the necessity of cross training our team, knowing that we have small team and that people were going to be out for different points, they were going to have, you know, COVID issues and COVID challenges and with childcare and with their help themselves. And that was really challenging. But I think again, something great lesson to learn from. And then the last one was, I speak a lot about with motherly The reason we focus on Mothers is that when a mother thrives a family and communities can thrive. But it all starts with her. Right. She’s the center of it. And I learned through COVID While I was also burning, you know, at every end, you know, not taking care of myself, I learned that as the CEO, if I wasn’t thriving, my company couldn’t thrive and to really prioritize myself even more than I had been before, to start finding self care ways that would enable me to be able to, to be on this. This what felt like sprinting a marathon?

Kara Goldin 22:54
Absolutely. If you had dimension, like one trend that you really see in that you are happy about for mothers. Do you think that there’s a similar point that you’ve seen mothers really talking about that trying to, you know, take care of themselves first so that they can be better? We are

Jill Koziol 23:15
far from a place where mothers will put themselves first, I stuck I don’t think we’re there yet as a whole as a society. I think martyr ism. And you know, that is still what’s expected of mothers in many ways. But I think what has shifted, we had actually named mother Lee had had started the seeds of a movement at the beginning of 2020 called year of the mother. This was going to be the year this is pre pandemic, such innocence, we were going to create an a platform of what mothers needed and what we were demanding that we needed to have and governmental employer and societal support in order to support others so that we could in fact thrive. And we had a whole platform. We had a whole group. It was a fabulous thing. It started in January, and then the pandemic came. And what I think the silver lining is that it was the year of the mother. It was the year that we finally as a society understood the value of caregiving, we finally got it. It was in our faces, it was in our zooms. It was you know, it was everywhere. Finally, we could not expect women or parents generally, to pretend that they weren’t parents when they were at work. And because the children were there, he was part of everything. And I think that that has shifted the conversation. I think we are closer now than we’ve ever been to governmental support for paternity leave for affordable childcare. And these things that need to be structural support systems that mothers that parents currently don’t have. I think we’re closer than ever. And I think that the pandemic as hard as it was put us to a breaking point where we’re now demanding that and you Seeing our voices and our votes to make it happen. Yeah, I

Kara Goldin 25:03
hope so. I still worry, you know that there aren’t enough women and mothers standing up and expired. Yeah, I think that’s I think that’s true. And, and I’m hopeful that even you know, the next generation will start standing up, because I think it’s really important.

Jill Koziol 25:22
You know, Kara, it’s also I’ve tried to, again, shift the dialogue a little bit, because it’s no longer a nice to have to have mothers in your workforce, and then your leadership roles. Totally, it’s now a business imperative, because this is your most educated cohort. Yeah. Right. And she’s having children later. And so she’s moved into middle management, you spent money and time and energy training this person with a ton of institutional knowledge. And again, most educated cohort, it’s a business imperative, not a nice to have, and we, we need women in the workforce to be economically competitive in the world now. And so because of that, if you if you put it into economic terms, like why we need to do this, then providing structural support to make it happen, makes sense. I mean, during World War Two, when women went to work for the first time in factories to support the war movement, women were able to drop their children off at government sponsored daycare facilities, those caregivers, which were professionals would take their those children to the doctor’s if they needed and care for them during the time. And then when the mother picked the child up, they would give them a casserole, so that that they had prepared so they can have dinner waiting for them. We have models in the United States of when we’ve made this work. And so I am hopeful. I’m optimistic that we’re starting to see and talk about this more. And that’s the first important step.

Kara Goldin 26:46
I love it. So you created motherly obviously. And then every year you also have a you conduct a study of mothers called the state of motherhood. This is the largest study by far of of mothers, can you share a bit more about some of the results and why they’ve been surprising to you maybe along the way?

Jill Koziol 27:11
Absolutely. When we first did this, it was again, motherly with having the largest most engaged audience of mothers in the US. We wanted, we felt a responsibility to be her voice, and to share that data. And so this isn’t just you know, a poll or a survey. This is a statistically significant study that all have only nearly 20,000 women, this last year, mothers completed the survey, and we waited it to the demographic data. And so this is legitimate, credible research, research that’s been used other places now. And the things that surprised me, you know, over the years, one, held demoralized, even before the pandemic, women were about being able to make work and family life, what happened? Yeah, and how unsupported they felt by our society. I also one of the things that was most shocking a couple years ago, was that many, many women were having were being intimate with their partners, sooner than they thought, then they felt ready after having a baby. You go to the doctor at that six weeks point, and many families feel like that’s when you’re checking off, like we can get back to business here in the intimacy side of things. And, and women almost feel pressure, because of that, and that social expectation around it. And that, I mean, it was a pretty large, I can’t unfortunately call the number right now. But it’s pretty large percentage that felt like they were actually being intimate before they felt ready. And that was an important conversation for us to bring to light and to have a conversation on this year. The most surprising thing was that nearly 50% of mothers today are the primary breadwinner in their family. Wow. Again, back to business imperative, not a nice to have, we are driving the economics of this country in really powerful ways, and not being supported. And that, that stat that stat that you know, we’re at the point now where 50% of mothers, not even just women, but mothers are the primary breadwinners and their families earning 50% or more. To me, even though I’ve seen it coming and I see it watching that was still just amazing to see that stuff come to life.

Kara Goldin 29:20
Wow. That’s that is so amazing. Really, really interesting to think about. So do you think women will? I think there’s a combination going on right now of the great resignation. And also, you know, women who had to leave. I’ve always said they, they didn’t choose to leave, they had to leave. I mean, it was the obvious choice because many of those women were not the breadwinners, we’re not making the most amount of money in the household, but do you think that they will be going back I mean, at what I saw But he said to me the other day, oh, it’s really challenging to find work. I’m like, What are you talking about? I mean, I think that the world has opened up even more for mothers to be able to, if you choose to be a working parent, you could work part time, you could work full time, you could work for a company across the globe, if you chose to, there’s

Jill Koziol 30:20
so and Pandemic did help. There’s a lot more, you know, knowledge workers, it’s certainly a privilege. But there’s a lot more remote opportunities, which help working parents, you know, in many, many ways, you know, I do think we’ll turn it back because these are educated women, that to your point, were in many ways forced to it’s no surprise that the largest resignations were in September, right, as schools were supposed to be going back into session and weren’t going back in the same way. And so, you know, I, when I looked back and even seen as my own workforce, this generation, the millennial and Gen, you know, increasingly now Gen Z generation, that were in the throes of this and early motherhood and trying to work and make it happen. This generation was with their partners being really intentional about the kinds of partnership and family they were having. I think they were trying, I saw that we were trying to create a different kind of family than the one we were raised in, we were trying to create one that was more equal, that was more balanced in form of in terms of partnership, and responsibilities. And that’s hard to do. It’s hard to break out of generational, you know, traditions to build something different and something new. And I think, again, coming upon 2020. Like, I think we were making real change and real progress in that. The challenge is that the pandemic was a crisis. And when faced with a crisis, we revert back to what’s comfortable, and what’s normal for us. And in many cases, that was much more traditional gender based roles, where it was okay, we’ve got to hunker down, we don’t have the energy to to be intentional about, you know, doing this hard thing of creating a different type of family. We’ve just got to survive and survive. I know that these gender roles have worked for every single generation in my family before. So let’s go back to that. I think this year as as schools are really going back, and as the CDC is changing requirements, you know, that mean that children will be bouncing in and out with exposures to school, I think that that makes a big difference. And I think we will start to see women and mothers rejoining the workforce.

Kara Goldin 32:26
Great to hear. So when you think back at your younger self, and maybe even before you had started any company, and also before you would become a mother, I mean, what would you tell your younger self?

Jill Koziol 32:44
I said this to my husband, the other day, park city is beautiful. We’re driving through Park City with our two daughters, we were in the back of the car on Sunday, we were heading out for our annual the guests Day, which probably seen the movie and you know, just the day, we said yes to everything to our children. And I told him, I said, Wow, if our just married newlywed selves, could see our life right now driving through Park City, with these two beautiful healthy daughters in the back, like living our best lives in terms of our careers doing things that we love. Like, would we even believe it? I mean, the fact that he lived in Utah would be shocking, I think, to both of us, but, you know, would we believe any of this? And he’s like, Oh, my gosh, I would absolutely not. And I said what I would give to have just like a snapshot of this moment right now for back then. Because what I would tell myself is like, wow, it’s going to be challenging, it’s going to be hard. It’s going to be beautiful. It’s going to be chaotic, but it is going to be so worth it. Yeah, that’s what I would tell myself, because it’s, I feel really lucky. I mean, every season of motherhood is different. And I’m in a pretty sweet one right now.

Kara Goldin 33:52
Oh, I love that. That’s such a great note to end on. So it was such a pleasure to speak with you jail. And thank you so much for so many of the great insights and all the great things that you are doing to not only help working mothers but parents and, and just be a resource for so many people to know that they can do something really, really great and helpful to so many people. So thank you again for the conversation and for making the time and thanks everyone for listening to. And we will hopefully have you back at some point to talk more to JL we we absolutely really enjoyed this. So thank you again. Thank you. Thanks all for listening to this episode. We hope you enjoyed it. And I want to thank all of our guests and our sponsors and finally our listeners. Keep the great comments coming in. And one final plug if you have not read or listened to my book undaunted, please do so. You will hear all about my journey and including founding scaling In building, the company that I founded hint, we are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks everyone for listening and goodbye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book.com and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening