Olenka Cullinan : Co-Founder & Co-CEO Red Shark USA

Episode 415

Olenka Cullinan, Co-Founder and Co-CEO of Red Shark USA shares all about running a business. A different type of business than we usually interview for the show. Red Shark USA is a distributorship. An importer. And the exclusive US distributorship and importer for Red Shark water bikes. It’s a fascinating story that is sure to get you thinking how you too might be able to do the same for one of your favorite products. We hear all about the company, the growing water sports category, lessons she has learned and how you can make something like this happen. This episode is filled with a ton of ideas and takeaways you won’t want to miss! On this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow.

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. It’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. And I am so so excited for my next guest, I have a Lenka Colin and who is the co founder and CO CEO of red shark USA. And if you are not familiar with bike surfing, then you absolutely are going to be really, really excited to hear all about this and all about red shark USA. Olenka Cullinan, and as I mentioned, is the co founder and CO CEO. They are a little bit different business model than what we typically talk about on the Kara Goldin show. They’re actually running the USA version of Red shark, which is a approximately 10 year old company that they did not found, but this is very similar to a franchise. They are the exclusive distributorship and importer of these bikes and they are building this business in the US. And it’s gangbusters. Plus it’s an incredible, incredible product. So like I said, if for those who are not familiar with it, we’re going to hear a lot more about it. She and her partner, David are the exclusive importer and distributor. So if you’re hearing this podcast too, and you’re interested, we’ll have all the info in the show notes, so you can learn a lot more about it. But without further ado, we’re gonna welcome Olenka so that she can share a lot more about it. So Alenka so great to have you on the show.

Olenka Cullinan 2:07
Thank you so much Kara. Super excited to be here, of course. And yes, super excited to share more about bike surfing and rent sharing bikes.

Kara Goldin 2:15
Super, super excited. So I absolutely love the product. Red shark products are just amazing. And what was the first time that you actually tried one of the bikes,

Olenka Cullinan 2:29
we actually got very lucky. We tried them in their origin land, which was Spain. And so the bikes I actually designed and manufactured in roses, Spain, and we were able to go there and actually tried renting bikes in the Mediterranean, David and I got on the bikes fell in love. And we just yeah, we couldn’t keep our hands away from them.

Kara Goldin 2:51
That’s amazing. And it’s one thing to love a product, it’s another thing to decide to how do we get these in the US and become a distributor and and, you know, basically run this business that is is a lot of fun that we’re really passionate about it but it truly is a business. I mean, you have to say you start it from nothing, right? I mean, you’ve got a product that then you have to build it and build the sales, build the business model, etc. So why did you believe that you could do it? While it’s

Olenka Cullinan 3:26
a very kind of serendipitous story, Kara. So David and I have been dating for about about a year. Well, basically he took me out on a date on a very similar product. He always loved watercrafts and we loved it. We just knew that we wanted to do something together. He was a Series A investor in another company always wanted to come back and you know, be again in that watercraft industry. So he exited his first company takes me on a date. I fall in love with him and the bikes. And then we went basically looking to find something else. And so when we went and tried out red shark, it was a crazy story. We were in roses, Spain did not plan at all to find the product there. He actually went for a run into the yacht Marina. And after that I thought it was super beautiful invites me to go with him. We go down and literally walk around across the street. I see this VESA that’s wrapped into a Ferrari colors. I love Ferraris and I’m like let’s go see what it is. And we literally walked into the shop of rancher and bikes and met Joseph and Joseph and David literally joke that they are lifelong brothers from different mothers because they have very similar interests. They have both a ride you know, they both cyclists they love riding mountain bikes. And the crazy part is is Joseph and stay in and David here in the US have the same mountain bike exactly the same one same color, same all the same everything and so from There, we got on the red shark bikes, we wrote them in the waves, we see how playful those things were, and how much fun they are because it’s a six in one water toy for the whole family. And both was basically looked at each other. And we were like Joseph didn’t even have an idea to bring it here in the US. And we were both like, we should do this, we should absolutely do this as a business, we should introduce them to the market here we should, you know, really put our mouth you know, where our money and just go in and that’s basically kind of a completely serendipitous decision. And here’s the crazy part when Joseph first showed us the market in Dec for rental bikes, he’s only been to the US one time and in that market in that in that market in Dec was a picture of Emerald Bay and Lake Tahoe and David has been going to Emerald Bay in Lake Tahoe because his family owns property there for 20 years oh my god you got picture to be in that room to have a conversation about business and see all this little serendipitous signs come together we were like we have to do this like there’s not even an option.

Kara Goldin 6:06
So you described red shark when you were just speaking as a six in one water toy so can you explain for anyone who’s never seen just describe the visual of

Olenka Cullinan 6:18
Yeah, absolutely. So wretched bike is a essentially is a watercraft it’s a personal watercraft and the best way I can say it. It’s it’s a road bike like a premier road bike and a paddleboard had a baby. And so you put a bike on top of a paddleboard, the paddleboard is inflatable and it actually rolls away into about a golf size travel bag. And that’s one of the beauties of this product is you don’t have to have a trailer you don’t have to have a boat, I mean a trailer or truck to pull this you can literally roll it away, throw it in the back of your car, and off you go. So the bikes are three models of the bikes there’s enjoy which is your typical beach cruiser go out, have fun, play around have a beverage, then there is a fitness model of the bike which is essentially sort of a peloton on the water, if you will you go out and you exercise we have athletes who use them for training, it’s a lot easier on your back and knees. Then there is adventurer model, which is lime green color. It comes with a fishing pole fishing bags dry and wet, has a lot of equipment. And it’s really designed for like your outdoor enthusiast who wants to go out fishing or just sit in a very quiet spot. And then the fourth model is actually the E scooter which is your electric model. And it takes all the work out of biking, you just press a button and you cruise around the lake. So all four of these models are completely interchangeable. Essentially, the actual paddle board is all the same for all bikes. And you could put any of the four pedestals into that you can also completely take the pedestal out and use the paddle board by itself, you can make it a tandem where you ride both bikes side by side. And that’s amazing for couples, kids and parents. You can also take the bikes out and put kayak seats on top of the boards and make it to two person kayak. And then it also comes with a kid for a gym. So if you wanted to do yoga, or like exercise on water, you can also use that paddle board for that. So it’s a true like six in one toy that’s there for the whole family. It’s super easy to convert takes you will literally say you know bag to water in under 15 minutes.

Kara Goldin 8:29
That’s amazing. And so you spoke about Joseph, who is the founder and creator, He is a German super car sports car engineer who introduced this new design into into the market. So did he just have one bike out initially? I mean, this is this is wild that he actually came up with this idea.

Olenka Cullinan 8:54
Yes. So he was actually a supercar designer, you know, born and raised in Spain worked for BMW. And when he initially created it, it was because of his own issues with his back for doing the mountain biking. And so he was like I knew I couldn’t do it as avidly as I was doing that before. And so he decided to create a product that is going to allow him the fun of mountain biking, all the excitement, but then take that pressure from his back and from the muscles. And believe it or not, he actually started testing rentrak bikes in his pool. And, you know, drove him around, made sure he initially came out with a little bit different version of that. And then kind of slowly iterated I believe he had four versions before we ran track bikes the way we have now and then took that version to the market and obviously people started loving on them. So we started selling in Europe, like crazy and you know, he got a lot of response and a lot of excitement because the bikes also very light. That’s one of the things that people do love about them. They’re under 40 pounds all together with you know, board and the bike combined.

Kara Goldin 9:58
Yeah, and they go in This nice compact bag, you can stick it on an airline if you want to take it on a trip that you need to get to by plane. I mean, it’s it’s an amazing, amazing product. So what were you doing before this?

Olenka Cullinan 10:14
Yeah, so I actually have been in consultant and have been running, you know, consulting company for my on my own for a long, long time, you know if you can tell from my accent, I was born in Eastern Europe came here right before I turned 21. But I mean, I’m very grateful for my mom, because I’ve worked with her since I was 14. And she kind of took away that fear of running your own business away from me, because you know, when I was 1415 years old, I would fly all over Europe, negotiate multimillion dollar contracts, and didn’t think much of it. So because of that, you know, I definitely gained a lot of perspective on what it’s like to run and build out a business, which obviously, is why, you know, it’s exciting for me to build red shark because I’m used to that, like, I’m used to taking a business from nothing from the product from the idea, and really rolling it out. And so for the last few years, leading up to that I’ve actually been working with companies anywhere from two and a half to 200 plus million, helping them exactly with that lean scale operation, bringing you know, the ideas to the market and making them you know, presenting them in a way where you would build community, you would get a different type of response, you would get customer, you know, base and really get your first fans. Everything we’re doing really with red truck right now is, you know, sort of my background.

Kara Goldin 11:34
It’s so great. Well, we always talk on this podcast about like challenges. And when you guys were launching red shark, USA, what was something that kind of came up that you were like, Oh, wait, nobody told me about that. I mean, this is hard. And it was a big challenge in front of you, but you got through it.

Olenka Cullinan 11:53
Yeah, I would say one of the things is definitely creating almost a new category on the market. Because we you know, like I said, David already had experience with similar watercraft. So for him, it was natural, right for me, I just love the product. So we came to the market with that whole idea because we love the product so much. People are gonna go for it just based solely on how much in love with the product we are. And some of it did happen. But we also didn’t realize that there was no awareness for bike service really in the US, you know, there are two or three other water bike companies, but nobody really has a product where it’s a paddleboard combined with a watercraft that is inflatable and, you know, ultra portable. So we even when we have a pretty funny story that like even when David and I were talking about registering the bikes, you know, because for like electric one, or if it’s over 12 feet long, some states require registration. And so when we would talk to the you know, government officials about registering the bikes, they would be like, what is that? You know, what are you it’s not about, it’s not a kayak, it’s not a paddleboard so we don’t even know like what category to put you in. So him and I both had to sit down and really like hone in and figure out, how do we educate the market? And the customer base on what is this and what’s the best use of it and who our ideal clientele is, and really, like transfer that message to them, that they can fall in love with a product the same way we did. Because you know, just because we love it. It’s not all trans, transferable across. So,

Kara Goldin 13:28
so interesting. So what are the states that you have to register it in?

Olenka Cullinan 13:33
Well, most of the states, basically, if it’s electric, all of the states in the US require your registration just like you if you would do a VESL or jetski, or any type of electric watercraft with paddle power, most states do not require registration. So that’s why people do love this because then they can just own it as a regular paddleboard. But like we just recently more in Arkansas and Arkansas as required. If it’s 12 feet or longer, which our boards at 12 feet long, they have to still registered with the state because it’s a longer watercraft.

Kara Goldin 14:07
And it’s not pretty easy process though to get it registered.

Olenka Cullinan 14:10
It is pretty easy process. But it’s still you know, a little bit time consuming. And most of the time, as of now, we still register them to serve as their regular paddleboards because states don’t have any type of you know, special category for water bikes.

Kara Goldin 14:24
So interesting. And so, you know, you’re running as you and I were talking about, you’re running this business that that started 10 years ago, but you’re building the brand, you’re educating people, I would imagine there’s guidelines that you need to adhere to, but you’re also kind of, you know, building the airplane as you’re flying it, so to speak. I mean, it’s it definitely is building a business. So can you speak to that if anybody’s thinking about maybe they have a product that they’ve gone, they’ve been traveling and they see Something that they don’t have in the US rather than creating this product. I mean, how can you give us suggestions on how you would actually go and get a distributorship from a founder? Or like how, what any suggestions on that?

Olenka Cullinan 15:15
Yeah, for sure. Just, you know, be very, my, you know, that’s a Eastern European in me, I think. But it’s all about, always about being direct. And having that purpose, right, we both fell in love in the product. But we also were very direct that we, it’s more than love, we actually want to turn it into actual business and a brand and a household name. So we had to have an honest conversation with Joseph. And again, no matter how much he liked David and I, and was super excited to work with us. One of the things we had to explain is how different the culture is here in the US and you know, from Europe. So to give you an idea, people in the US love fitness, people in Europe love the enjoy model more because it’s more slower paced, kind of fun, kind of relaxing here. People love the peloton and the workouts and you know, we have a lot of yoga communities, right. And so we had to really look, when we sat down with him, we had to look at what is it going to be like, culturally, when we translate that here? And what is what are some of the things and aspects that we’re going to focus on when building a business. So we did a pretty direct pitch to Joseph, when we, you know, started this communication process with him. Obviously, if you can go for the founder do that. Because you know, the more vertical you have to kind of run through the more difficult than becomes because it’s like a broken telephone, you have four levels up. In our case, we definitely had a little bit of a language barrier. Joseph speaks fluent Spanish, neither one of us does. So we actually did have to bring a translator a couple of times he speaks his English is great for just, you know, simple conversations. But a couple of times when we started negotiate in details, you know, you want you know, obviously that’s saying, you know, details is everything. Yeah, so when you negotiate that you have to realize not only how you’re going to, you know, get the deal, which is being direct and given certain type of commitments, you know, we had to commit to a number of sales to number of resellers to the number of states we want to go into, because we truly believe that the rent chart bikes is a household name, and it will be a household name here in the US. But part of it also, you have to understand the cultural differences. So in our case, the pitch we gave him, had to align that, Hey, we love everything you do in in Europe, but we might have to do things a little bit differently in the US, because for example, e scooters are super popular in the US. Everybody here loves electric, right? The E bikes, the era of E bikes has arrived. So everybody loves being on water and having that electric option as well. So when we were pitching to him, we also put some cultural considerations, because if he wasn’t on board with that, it would be really hard for us to launch it in another country, no matter how much we love a product.

Kara Goldin 17:57
Yeah, definitely, I was thinking about all the different things that you must have gone through, obviously, you need to love a product in order to be willing to start a business around it and believe that it can happen. But you also need capital to write you can’t just go and inked a deal with somebody, you’ve got commitments that you are signing up to, but you need some kind of capital in order to make sure that you’re going to be able to open the doors. So is is that, like, how do people think about that? Do you know? Like with other businesses? I mean, what what should you have in mind to be able to do that?

Olenka Cullinan 18:35
Well, absolutely. Yes, you need to be you definitely need to look at numbers. Right? What commitment are you willing to make? For us? It was an exclusive distributorship. So obviously, to be exclusive, our commitment was a little bit higher than if we just said, Hey, let us sell 50 bikes and see what happens type of thing. Right, we could have ran a test market. But instead, we wanted to be exclusive distributor and importer for the US. So we agreed to a little bit higher commitment, which obviously comes with a higher dollar amount, like you said, so we had to sit down and say, Okay, how much of our own cash we’re willing to put into that? How much what else are we going to do while we go in, because if you nobody cares that you had 10 years in Europe, they only care about us zero years in the US. So it’s not like you can go to the bank and say I need to get a loan. So we chose to go friends and family round first and do the little arrays and then actually we’re doing the capital second capital raise right now. Because we want to grow at a little bit faster pace, we’re starting to get really amazing, you know, results from our test market. And so in that sense, you do have to be prepared of what you’re willing to sacrifice in terms of, you know, obviously working with friends and family, which can be amazing, but also super, super stressful. And then also in terms of investors and when you’re ready to go that route. You have to be willing to sacrifice a part of your income Putting essentially and so that’s the decisions you make kind of in the process, but it’s exactly what you said earlier, you know, we’re building the plane and flying it to and pivoting quickly and learning a ton as we’re doing this. Yeah.

Kara Goldin 20:13
So who handles customer service? And like support? Are you guys actually do you have to do that? Or does it go to some central number? Or how does that sort of world work?

Olenka Cullinan 20:25
Yes. So luckily for us, you know, rhetoric bikes, the mother company in Spain has an amazing customer support in terms of you know, all the warranties returns everything regarding the equipment. So when the customer comes to us here in the US, we initially like basically, we assess initially what the issue is. And then if it’s not something we can mitigate right away, we pass them along to the customer support in Europe. However, with that said, you know, one of the things that Joseph really prides himself on and was basically a huge stipulation for us to come into this business is his customer service is absolutely stellar. Like he will replace the bike, no questions asked boards, whatever equipment needs to be done. So one of the things we you know, aligned on is we want to have that high level of customer care. So we do take the initial requests for that. Luckily for us, the product is exceptional quality, like he’s absolutely a stickler for quality. Nothing on those bikes comes from China, everything is proprietary, made at the factory in Spain, and is inspected before it comes to us. So we don’t have a lot of issues with the bikes. We obviously have issues with boards because they are inflatable, here and there. But in terms of Yes, customer care, we take the initial requests for our US clients, and then we pass that along for Europe if we cannot resolve it on our own.

Kara Goldin 21:50
So on a very wavy day, is it is it difficult to ride this bike or what? Just giving people like a visual on it? Do you have to have a very calm waters or can you ride it in the ocean?

Olenka Cullinan 22:07
Yes, you can absolutely write it in the ocean they were actually designed for the ocean That’s why they’re called bike serves one of the two biggest questions you read one of them usually it’s can we write it in waves what happens if there is a wake from you know boat coming by? Yes, you can absolutely do that. Obviously, it’s the same idea as if you were in a kayak on a paddleboard, if the waves that over you had with hydrated do not recommend riding the bikes. If the waves are smaller waves, they actually do quite a bit better than paddle boards would just because one you’re sitting down. So your center of gravity actually comes from your core and your legs. In paddleboarding world it only comes from your core because you’re standing up. So that definitely helps you. And also underneath the bike, there is a rider. And then there is a propeller, which basically allows the bike to sit in the water like a boat would. And the rider positions are interchangeable. So based on your propeller in the position that you put a rudder in, that allows you to ride in a very different way. And so if it’s a way the weather, you can make a rider position where it’s more kind of like stable and grounded. And this allows you to ride through the waist quite nicely. They absolutely weren’t great obviously for come water. It’s a no brainer for lakes, dependent on the you know, undercurrent that the lake has the river again, in some rivers, they do really, really great. If their undercurrents are really strong, then we obviously don’t recommend variety. But overall, they do incredibly well in the ocean and with the boats around them just because like I said they were truly designed to be a surf style watercraft versus just a paddleboard, that sits flat.

Kara Goldin 23:50
And is it similar to I’ve been on a blow up sailboat before where it if you do end up getting in a bad situation where the wave crashes into it’s going to come back up. Right, right. It’s not going to completely I mean, the way that it’s actually structured, it’s it’s meant to be able to come up upright with the rudder. Oh,

Olenka Cullinan 24:12
absolutely. Yeah. And if Yeah, if you look on the board, we have straps all around the back end of the board, specifically because it’s designed to be flipped, and then you jump up back up on the board. And you know, we have people asking us this question quite a bit like how top heavy it is. And how long does it take to write this? It’s actually more of your own mind struggle than the bike struggle. It rides just like a regular bike except on water. So if you’ve ever ridden a bike, you will have no problem and we literally have people six to 86 on this bikes. And what does happen is because you’re on the water, it’s such a bizarre experience first time that people struggle with their mind like how am I actually paddling and it’s moving, how am I steering and it’s moving because the bike stairs just like a regular bike would too, and so that top heavy is not actually an issue because the bike is not top heavy, but frame is very light. And then you are sitting down. What happens though is like, it’s the ability to release and say, Okay, I’m just riding a bike, I’m only sitting on water. So I’m not going to flip it. As a matter of fact, obviously, David and I have played with it. And David is an engineer. So he definitely has been brave enough, let me push the limits. And he’s done it a few times where you could see the rudder come from underneath the water, and the bike still did not talk over. So we do know that you have to try pretty hard and to flip it over. But if you do, yeah, you just flip it back up.

Kara Goldin 25:43
Amazing. So being an entrepreneur is is brutal. And we both know, developing a new category or educating consumers is can be very, very tough. How do you stay motivated? Like on those really hard days, when you’re feeling like, ah, what am I going to do? Like, what what keeps you most motivated?

Olenka Cullinan 26:06
Honestly, just so it’s absolutely everything you said, it is brutal. And with a new category, everybody’s welcomed to go to our Instagram, and see the amount of comments we get off. This is crazy, this is insane. This doesn’t make any sense. All all the love, right? Honestly, on the days like that, we often talk to each other about all the amazing messages we get from our customers, and the pictures and saying, oh my gosh, I have my family on like I had my dog on my 86 year old mom, when writing, you know, it’s, it’s seen the joy, one of the things we absolutely love about this product. And I think that’s what kind of picks us up from the gutter on the bed days is the amount of joy we get in the amount of amazing responses we get from people saying, oh my gosh, this is absolutely brilliant. I love it, you know, my knees don’t hurt when I write it, it helps my back, I thought I could never ride a road bike before. And now I’m able to go, you know, 10 miles every day around my lake. And I don’t feel the strain the strain from riding a road bike, or I don’t have to smell the exhaust and be worried about cars. And I can put my child on the front because the board is designed to have up to three people per board. So you can have a dog in the front, that kid in the back or vice versa. So like I write David all the time. And I think it’s that it’s our understanding of one yes, we are up against a little bit of education, which takes time. And we keep reminding ourselves. I’m not he’s way more Dave isn’t way more patient than me. So he reminded me quite a bit to be patient and it takes time. But also honestly, the outpour of incredible experiences this product brings to people we literally have people who fly them to Belize to Bahamas anywhere in the world for vacations send us pictures. And that’s the part that keeps us going.

Kara Goldin 28:01
Yeah, me too. I mean, looking at the customer responses on things I think is just I always encourage people, especially with with good comments and and happy feelings about products and services. Definitely communicate with the company about it, because it’s uh, that person on the other end may be having a really tough day and telling them what, how great their product is or service, it really makes a difference. So, so best advice you’ve ever received, that really helps you as you’re growing this business with David?

Olenka Cullinan 28:37
Gosh, well, I would say a couple one is, all of our friends and family remind us to just you know, have fun with it. Because it is designed to be a joyful product. Like it’s designed to bring people joy. It’s designed to bring us joy. And the reason we got into this was because we both love to have fun, we love outdoors, and we love water. Really, those are the three things that brought us to this point. But I would say another advice was stay patient, you know, like if you know, we know we both were sold out to the concept 100% like we know it’s an amazing product, there’s not a doubt in our mind, otherwise we’d never done it. And the one of our mentors always reminds us to stay patient because it does take time to build the brand. And again, like of course it can be and that’s honestly for anybody who is going into franchise model or that type of model where that product exists somewhere else. You cannot compare 10 years of experience in Europe or any other country where it has been built out and everybody knows it to where you are starting here because it’s not, you know, fully interchangeable concept. And you do have to stay patient and remind yourself that this is a brand, but it’s not a household name yet in the US and we have to focus on that piece. No matter how Much of a household name, it is in Europe already. So, you know, it’s a humbling experience it is a lot of times when we go to boat shows or yacht clubs, and they look at us, and we tell them the story of how big they are in the US, they have to kind of, you know, bring us back and say, Well, yes, but we are starting here, right? Like you guys are here working with us. And so we do have to be aware of that. And I think that’s to any franchisee out there. You know, you have to be aware of that, that when you’re starting your own, it is going to be your own. And you have to be patient.

Kara Goldin 30:34
Yeah, definitely. Well, it was such a pleasure to speak with you. And this is an amazing, amazing product. So everybody needs to check out in we’ll have it all in the show notes red shark USA, and get your hands on a bike for sure. And Lenka you’re so inspiring. So and you’ve given I think a lot of people ideas on if they aren’t ready, or don’t have an idea to start their own company, can you go find a business that you can actually really help to grow and in the US or any other country? It’s, it’s such a great idea. So thank you again, and thanks, everyone for listening.

Olenka Cullinan 31:14
Thank you.

Kara Goldin 31:15
Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would, please give us a review. And feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit and of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my book undaunted, which I share my journey, including founding and building hint. We are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And thanks everyone for listening. Have a great rest of the week, and 2023 and goodbye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book.com and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening