Laila Ali: Founder & CEO of Laila Ali Spice Blends

Episode 533

On this episode of The Kara Goldin Show, Laila Ali, Founder and CEO of Laila Ali Spice Blends, shares the story of her journey from boxing to world class entrepreneur. She discusses the lessons she learned from her father, Muhammad Ali, and how he shaped her outlook on life and business. Laila talks about her boxing career and the challenges she faced as a woman in a male-dominated sport. She also explains the inspiration behind her spice blends and the importance of clean, flavorful ingredients. Laila emphasizes the value of customer feedback and the need to surround yourself with the right team when starting any business. Have pen and paper ready! You don’t want to miss a minute of this motivational episode with so much to learn and be inspired by. Now on this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be you just want to make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Kara Goldin show where we sit down with some of the most fearless and inspiring leaders, entrepreneurs and innovators to uncover their journeys towards making significant impacts. And today’s guest is clearly the the poster child for for that description. We are thrilled to welcome Laila Ali, who is the founder and CEO of Laila Ali spice blends, and she is not only a former world champion boxer, who has taken the legacy of her father Muhammad Ali to incredible heights but also a successful entrepreneur and author. And beyond the ring Laila has continued to champion the fight for wellness and nutrition. Through her venture, lay lollies spice blends, and if you have not tried these, you must, they are so good and definitely make any meal that much better for sure. So offering her a taste of her passion for healthy living and cooking and her journey from dominating the boxing world to stirring up the culinary scene and petting her experiences is, like I said earlier, nothing short of inspiring and motivational. So I can’t wait to dive in and talk to Layla. A lot more about her company and also her journey overall. So welcome, Leila.

Laila Ali 2:08
Hi, thank you. Thanks for that wonderful introduction. Absolutely.

Kara Goldin 2:12
I’m so excited to talk to you. As I mentioned, I was giving a talk earlier today. And I was like thinking about you and everything that you’ve experienced, or at least what I know you’ve experienced, I can’t wait to talk more about this. So tell us a bit about you. And obviously, you grew up as the daughter of a very famous father. So looking back, what did you learn? From him? I always say or I coining Steve Jobs. The dots eventually connect, like, you know, for all the dads out there listening who think like kids don’t want anything from me. I would imagine that might have been you to some extent. But what what did you learn from him thinking back? Oh,

Laila Ali 2:55
there was so much. You know, it’s funny, because my father sat us down and lectured us pretty often. Yes, it was kind of Lana. urine. Yeah, as a kid, not really realizing the blessing, right, and the information, the knowledge, but what I learned from my father was watching him. So he really taught me more by example, the person who he was behind the scenes, as you know, my father was a global icon loved all around the world. Everywhere we went, there was always a lot of attention, my father loved and he would welcome attention. He’s the carry black briefcase with him with magic tricks. And with pre signed autographs, so it was like a show everywhere you went when, when you’re, you know, 6789 it’s kind of irritating, you know, you’re like, we just want to go to the local diner and eat, we don’t want to sit there for three hours, you know, doing the same old, same old. But what I love is my father would get in the car right? After he entertained and picked up babies and handed out $100 bills to janitors, and all these things that I saw, he was such a common person. And he would say, I do this because people love to see me they, you know, people did the people that think I’m not paying any attention to them, but they’re not going to get the attention, the janitors and the housekeeper’s and the waitresses, those are the people that need to give you more attention. So he was very intentional about his giving back, having kindness and compassion. And I saw how great he was. And I now know why he was so great. But I also saw the kindness in his heart, right and the way that he gave back so he really shaped my outlook on life. He shaped the a lot of the principles in which I live my life, my values, my morals. I mean, he was so high on the pedestal for me, you know that it takes a lot to impress me like I’m like, I don’t really care festival. Your business is how much money you make. That’s all wonderful was like what kind of person are you? What are you doing to give back so I’m looking at things a little differently, and I have high expectations on myself as well. Right. So yeah, it’s it was a lot, but I’m really what I’m proud of myself for doing so his youngest daughter, right? He has nine children. I’m the only one that followed him into the ring, and had been to carve out my own lane in the shadow, which wasn’t easy. Yeah,

Kara Goldin 5:20
I can only imagine so So you started boxing yourself and went on to become the women’s former world champion boxer. You didn’t just box? I mean, you were you were definitely at the top of your game. And I should say that it didn’t start there. You worked really hard. And I mean, just incredible. And can you talk a little bit about that experience? And how long did it take you to kind of get from the beginning to the goal? Yes.

Laila Ali 5:55
Well, I actually did not participate in sports growing up. Not at all, like I just stayed in P. I was always pretty mature for my age, very ambitious, very independent. I had a dysfunctional childhood growing up, my mom and dad divorced, I was living with my mom. And I was just kind of had this anger inside of me and this desire to move out and be on my own. And, you know, I was getting a little trouble at school. My first job was at McDonald’s. I remember when I was 15, I wanted to get a job and I started working, I want to make my own money. I never wanted to have a handout, right. I wanted to be my own person from a very young age. I don’t know why I started my first business when I was 12. I made these flyers. And it was like a house cleaning service. And the neighborhood. didn’t do very well with multimo gonna hire a 12 year old to clean your home, but I got one client. But you know, and then I started Leyland’s nail studio when I was 17. And I had a full clientele because I had a manicure in license, which I did, went to school after school to learn how to do nails at my manicure and license. All because I wanted to move out the house. By the time I was 18 years old, while I was going to school talk about you know, putting a lot on my plate. So I had Legos now studio, I was living on my own pay my car note paying my rent, cool clientele. And that’s how I saw women’s boxing on television for the first time when I was about 18. And I was turning on the television to watch a Mike Tyson fight at a friend of mines home. And all of a sudden these women came into the ring on undercard. And I was like, I didn’t know when Bob, like how could I not know this, I was excited. And on the edge of my seat, these women started fighting. And I was like, I want to do that. And that was when I had my first taste. And of course, I had no idea what it would take. I knew that my father would like it. I knew women’s boxing wasn’t even where it is now. And it still has a long way to go. So it’s not something people have heard of. So I went home at night and woke up the next morning like, nevermind, I can’t I can’t do it. You know, it was a little bit dreaming about it. I could do this. And I was like, No, I can’t like I went to school. You know, I built my clientele. And I’ve had plans to go back to school for business and expand, you know, my chain of salons, but a year into it. It just kept calling because I started training in secrecy and went to a local boxing gym. I said, let me just see if I have what it takes because I knew the amount of pressure that would be on me. I knew that, you know, everyone would probably be against it. And I had to buy into it. First I had to be able to believe in myself first. So I did the work that it would take. I came up with a plan. I started training every evening, six nights a week after school after work. I was at that boxing gym, eager to learn. I loved every moment of it. And within about four months, I fell all in love with it. And I remember I decided I was going to do it. And I remember my dad came in town because he lived out of state and he she does baby girl was in the gym, right? So he says, you know here you’re boxing? And I’m like, Yeah, Dad I am you know, he’s like, Well, he basically tried to talk me out of it every way that he could, you know, what are you gonna do? down you know, I’m I’m gonna do what you did, I’m gonna get back up. And then finally Apple, the irritation of his message not getting through to me. He said what was really on his mind. He just said, You know what, I don’t want you to do it. It’s not for you. It’s not for women. It’s a man sport. It’s grimy. I don’t want you to do it. I don’t I don’t approve. And I just said, Well, Dad, you know, I kind of figured you’re gonna say that. And I’ve already made my decision. So you’re going to either, you know, go along with it and show me you know, a little support or not either way, I’m going to do it. So he was at my pro debut where I knocked out my opponent in 54 seconds. So I remember looking over at and like, yeah, man, man. I can do it, you know, so, but I do want to come back and say he did come back and apologize. After I won a couple of world titles. He was like I was wrong. You can back to women. FanBox I’m so proud of you. So that just added fuel to my fire, to finally get that blessing from not only my father, right, as a young girl who was entering into a sport that she had no experience. And as a daughter of the gravest, who told her not to do it, she couldn’t do it. So you can imagine what kind of self belief and competence determination that took to be in that situation with the amount of pressure I would have on me and my own father telling me not to do it. So I’m pretty much that type of chip that’s just unstoppable, you know, I put my mind to something that’s going down.

Kara Goldin 10:33
That’s, that’s so great. Well, I always say that it’s, you know, the people, the family and your friends, when they have an opportunity to weigh in on some crazy idea that you’re about to venture into. They come from a place of safety, right, and they love you. And so they’re going to tell you not to take the road less traveled, they’re gonna tell you to do something safe, and that you’re going to be successful. And I think, you know, there’s many stories like that I was a tech executive and doing pretty well and, and he was the youngest Vice President on America Online, was starting shopping was doing great things. And all the sudden, I’m like, I’m gonna go start a water company. And, you know, my family thought I was nuts. Right? And, and so definitely, they can’t necessarily see the vision, but you learn later on that, especially when they apologize, and they see and they know that that you’re really going to do it. So how many years before you actually then retired? Then from from those fights?

Laila Ali 11:46
Yes. And I understood what he felt because my my daughter, I wasn’t watching her boxing. Now, either boxing is a little different than just, you know, starting a business, I got it. But I wouldn’t say to tick was 10 years not to say it was 10 years that I box, and I and I left bots and undefeated 24 and 21 knockouts with four world titles. Amazing.

Kara Goldin 12:07
So if you when you think about women in sports overall, obviously, not getting the recognition as much we’ve now witnessed that with with women’s basketball and pay and all of those topics. Do you feel we’re making progress? When is this going to be over? Or where, you know, women are really kind of looked at in an equal way and get as much screen time or, or ticket sales or whatever it is? When is this going to happen, Leila,

Laila Ali 12:41
I think we definitely have made progress, but there’s still so much more that needs to be done. And, you know, I’ve always been that person that thinks of what I can do as an individual, you know, and, you know, pretty much I strive to be the best at what it is that I’m doing. To the point where you’re not even thinking about the fact that I’m a woman anymore, you just like, Man, she’s really, really great at that, right? And have expectations, I walk in the room, you know, with that confidence with that vibe, you know, like, I’m the boss, right? And, you know, you just kind of surround yourself with like minded people, you know, and then just ask for what you want, and don’t take anything less. But again, you know, we can keep doing that. But it’s gonna take time in terms of this, as we know, you know, even with boxing, you know, it came down to how much money you can make as well, how much can they? Even if it’s a full arena, right? How much can I sell the tickets for, you know, you’re going to be able to sell my tickets for $100 Each, or you gotta be able to sell for $25 each. So, so some of that math has to do with it. But I think that what’s great and you mentioned women’s basketball, just seeing the excitement, right of watching these games. That’s what really lights the fire. That’s what makes the audience come to watch. And that’s when we’ll be able to, you know, ask for more. I

Kara Goldin 14:01
love that. So you transition from being a world champion boxer to founding spice blends. That’s quite a journey, but also kind of a totally different industry, obviously, can you share what inspired you to make this pivot?

Laila Ali 14:19
Well, I always love to cook. And from the time I was nine years old, I’ve been cooking because my mom didn’t really cook much. I had to learn how to cook. So I always remember like buying all these seasonings. All the ones I would never use now. But um, I prided myself on the flavor, I can make anything tastes great. And I even went and competed on chopped and one a couple times. Which was amazing. a boost of competence for me. My cookbook Food For Life kind of has a lot of the recipes that I’ve been creating. And you know, over the years and I learned a lot from my grandma’s from Louisiana. It’s a call You’re on the phone and say, Grandma, how do you make gumbo grandma? How do you make gravy? You know, she taught me so I’m self taught. And as I became an athlete, I was like, You know what, I still want to eat those delicious flavorful foods, a lot of comfort foods, but I want to be healthy, right? So I was able to learn how to make the foods I love and more flavorful way. And it really comes down to the seasoning, you know, I’ve seen plates, right, that look great. And we tasted here like, that doesn’t taste as good as it looked right? Because, you know, seasoning makes a difference between a good meal and a great meal. You know, everybody has a different flavor. How are you going to put it all together. So I decided to create my spice blends, because I noticed that you know, I had my base, right. So my first one was on my cookbook Food For Life, My My Sassy seasoning blend, where I was like, I’m always reaching for onion powder and garlic powder a little time and sometimes a little lemon for acidity. And it’s just a nice mix, right for a lot of very versatile. So that was my first blend and in the book, then I decided to go ahead and make a line of products because I realized that so many of the spices that are currently available commercially, just have fillers and additives and chemicals. And then of course a lot. Obviously it’s not organic, and you know, herbicides and you know all the things that we all the things right that you’re getting, when you’re putting flavor on your food, I wanted to make something clean. But most of all, make it easy for people to create flavorful meals, right using basic ingredient. That’s really what what it takes is the right.

Kara Goldin 16:35
That’s awesome. So what are some of the most popular seasonings that you’ve that you currently have in your line?

Laila Ali 16:43
You know, I’ve noticed that people really love the salt free blends, they like all of them. But so many people now feel that they have high blood pressure because of salt content. So people for lower salt options, but my I would say two of my best sellers are my garlic, garlic goddess because obviously we all love garlic. And it’s a blend, and then sassy seasoning blend was which isn’t original. And then. But there’s so many I mean, it’s hard to say go gland, which I’m dedicated to my father, the greatest of all time blend, it’s just like an all purpose when it’s amazing. So the thing with my spices are, they’re meant to mix and match. So you can use or you can mix and match. And it takes me a lot of time and testing to make sure that all goes together well without overpowering or creating funky flavors. So you can buy all nine blends, and then create so many more flavors with those. And I’ll continue adding to the line. But that’s really what it comes down to. Because you know, every garlic you pick up, garlic was gonna be different, but it’s about finding the right balance and you put it on your food, there’s no weird aftertaste or anything was too strong or not strong enough. So

Kara Goldin 17:54
so what you mentioned fillers and some of these spices that are out there on the market. And I’m so curious that when you were looking to develop these products, again, you had a big name, you you probably as I’ve always said to people, just because you are famous or you know, you’ve got tons of experience, you maybe you’re a previous entrepreneur, successful entrepreneur, you can get your foot in the door, but that doesn’t mean that it’s to some extent your bar is higher, right? Because you’re you’re much more visible. Here you are coming in saying I want to create spices that don’t have these things, you don’t have any experience in the industry. Can you talk about any of those stories, any of those early days of, you know, you, I would imagine being an athlete at the level that you were you were able to you were used to people not believing in you, and then you would show them and it’s very similar. And being an entrepreneur probably.

Laila Ali 19:02
Yeah, it’s funny because being that I have a name and when I’m, you know, functioning in life, I never wake up and go mumbling loudly that do for me today. I’m just mean, you know, business person. And I literally am very hands on when I started my spice lens. I was like, I really want to get into the food space, and there’s so much more I want to do. But I literally started at my computer searching, right? Like how do you start a spice business? You know, what’s the minimum that I can buy just kind of learning as I went, there was no blueprint for it, right? Nobody’s going to just hand you out information. So it took me like five years off and on as I was doing TV and doing all these other things, just to pull it all together. And I finally found a company that would do an amount small enough that I could start with and I was like, you know, the entry point was easy for me for spices. You know, it’s not like doing liquids or as you know, it’s just more there’s there’s more involved right and then just mixing some spices so I was able to create the recipes in my own kitchen, right? Because at first it was like, Oh, I’m just gonna go and buy bulk oregano and thyme and salt, pepper and paprika, whatever it was, I want to put it and mix it on my own and then you mass produce it right? So I found the partner for that. And then I was like, Okay, what kind of containers I want to use. Now I got to find a container maker. That wasn’t easy, because someone refers to this company, you got to find you got to, you know, you have to shop around. And because I’m me, some people will try to charge me more, right? And I’m like, no, no, no, you know, so there was a lot of bad, there’s a lot of mistakes, obviously, along the way. And I always wanted my containers to stand out. And one of my containers would be different, but be sustainable. I recently upgraded to my 10 containers, you know, and that was a whole thing, you know, you know, is when you change packaging, you got to change everything, you know, your website, your images, all that. So that was a lot. And there is I’m the I’m the decision maker, when it comes to my spice blends. There’s nobody above me. You’re right. So I’m very hands on, obviously, you have to have a team. But when it comes to the decisions, it’s all me when it comes to creating the recipes on me. But yeah, I love it. I love love, love it. And fight friends are like my babies, right? And I can’t wait to like, I’m so excited about and I’m so passionate about them, always wanting to come up with new recipes, and just having to pace myself.

Kara Goldin 21:28
I love that. So you mentioned some of the different of the 10 items that you have. Did you start with 10? Or how many skews did you actually start with. So

Laila Ali 21:41
I started with three which are my original three was soulful, spicy and sassy. So the idea was, these are the only three blends that you need to prepare meals with because you had your salt replacement, which is the soulful seasoning salt, and pepper replacement. The spicy pepper blend has four different types of peppers, plus herbs and spices, so it’s elevated. Then you had your sassy seasoning blend, which was your salt free herbal blend that you know brought in a bunch of flavor without salt. So you can use as much of that as you want, without your food getting salty. And if you just had those three vials on a travel and had to cook, I’m taking those three. Then from there, I started adding other other flavors. And I’ll continue to add other flavors kind of listening to the customer, what they need to try to figure out, you know, what makes the most sense. That’s pretty much how they come about.

Kara Goldin 22:32
So you mentioned customers. And I always say that it’s the customer feedback that really helps you obviously sales too, but really helps you know that you’re on the right path. Can you share any stories of customer feedback of you know how that really, they always seem to come to on those down days where you know, you hear from a retailer that that you’re getting discontinued or you’re or, you know, the packaging doesn’t come in correct or your favorite employee quits or something happens. And then you get those customer emails. Do you remember getting one of those? I’m sure you’ve gotten many where people have said this really changed my life?

Laila Ali 23:21
Oh, absolutely. Because I like to take the time to go through and read reviews. Because I learned a lot from them. And yeah, there’s been so many people that have said, you know, I had to give up salt and your blends really make it easier for me to cook meals, it tastes amazing, or I don’t miss the salt so much, or a lot of people love certain popular brands that are on the market that for their seasoning salt that they know isn’t really good for them. And when they made the switch, I want nothing else I love when I get an email just like I bought this from my husband, and he won’t use anything else and it gets mad and we’ve run out of it. So now I’m getting the extra large size. And you know, I just get this big smile on my face because I remember when my my husband first fell in love with my soulful season salt and he didn’t want that other popular brand needs to buy I was like, you know, Don’t ever bring that in the house. I was only using this. So it feels good because I literally create these recipes, you know myself. So that puts a big smile on my face. But yeah, customers are everything you know, and I like to stay connected no matter how big the brand gets. Because it always just brings me back to my center to that foundation of why I started the brand. Because I really my bigger picture in my late Loli lifestyle on my website. And that’s really about my passion of helping people live their best life through their health, their mindset and their purpose in life. And health has so much to do with what we put in our mind the food that we eat, as you know, water how many people have a hard time getting enough water down where you’re like, Oh, well let me make it taste amazing. You know, we put the flavor in it right And you’ve changed lives, right by offering them this, and then they’re like, Wow. And then it even gets easier to drink regular water, because sometimes they just need that bridge, you know, just saying go from soda to water, it’s really hard to do. But when you have flavored water, you know what I mean that you can keep drinking. And it’s exciting to have all these different flavors that have something to look forward to. Right. So it’s the same thing with my spice lens. A lot of people weren’t even educated about spice lens, and we talked about the fillers, you know, whether it be, you know, we don’t get to get into the ingredients, but they don’t even know a lot of the time. So once they sign up for my email list, and they start getting information about the spices, and they find out like, wow, you know, this is how these herbs, making a difference in my life, and not having certain ingredients will also make a difference in my life. So and then, you know, I’m going to be creating more and more recipes, you know, so people understand how to use the devices. So just giving customers value and then giving you that feedback is amazing.

Kara Goldin 26:00
That’s terrific. So you started out as a direct to consumer brand, that was really the focus of getting it out. I still am a direct consumer. Yeah. And are you planning on going into retail with it? Or are you mostly focused on direct to consumer,

Laila Ali 26:17
right now focus on direct to consumer and thinking about the possibility of going in store. So when we talk about, you know, on this show, right, you get into the nitty gritty of things that happen right along the way. So when I created my spice lens, I used to have a paper container that was made out of paper. And it was, you know, a great idea. But I started having problems with them coming apart sometimes, and shipping, which is like will make your heart drop, right? So I was like, Oh man, imagine if I had shipped this to a store and the muster. So this would be crazy. So I had to go through this process of finding a new container, you know, as you know, going through all the changes that happen before you can actually make the change. So I really hadn’t been thinking about going in store until, you know, I made sure I can be confident in my product because I didn’t want to give myself problems. So now I’m at that point where I’m actually working with a business coach. And I’m like, Okay, I need to not be making some of these decisions. Just on my own. I need to know the pros and the cons, because it’s not always I remember meeting a female entrepreneur that helped me a lot along the way. And she was like, Do you want to go in store? That was the first one the first question she asked me cuz you know, when you’re doing your pricing and your packaging, and all of that. And I was like, well, doesn’t everybody wants to go on store? Like, you think that’s just the thing to do? Right? And she’s no, actually everyone does it? You know, some people just want to be direct to consumer. So I started looking at things differently. But I’m gonna go back to the drawing board now and see if it’s something that I want to do. But I’m not sure. Maybe Maybe I’ll talk to you a little bit about that offline.

Kara Goldin 28:01
Yeah, it’s, it’s super interesting, because I think it used to be I mean, we started hence started in 2005. We went into stores because nobody thought that you could ship heavy bottles of water. And I always give Amazon tons of credit for really making that world happen and love them or hate them. Right? Like it’s they definitely made people shopping for food or spices or drinks happen for sure. So I think like, that was the opening of direct to consumer and tint still to this day. I mean, offline business, we call it the retail is the majority of the business still over 60% of the business, but 40% became the direct to consumer, and it really is about paying attention to the consumer. And what where do they want to see you showing up I interviewed a woman in the beauty industry who was saying that she was only going to be a direct to consumer business because she figured that she was going after Gen Z and that’s where she could find them on Tik Tok and Snapchat and etc. But she said that more and more what she’s hearing is that there’s a lot of people who are millennials and Gen Xers who want her product and they’re sometimes online they actually like still going into store so she’s you know, gone more and more into retail for that reason. So that’s why I love this podcast because I learned so much about how people are thinking about things too. And it’s, it’s super, super interesting. So for anybody last question for anybody who is thinking about an idea, right and creating a, a brand a company, what advice do you have for Have them

Laila Ali 30:01
surround yourself with the right team, you know, don’t corners on that, you know, you have to find people who are like minded, who believe in your dream who think similar to us, but not exactly like you, people who aren’t going to be yes, people, you know, when you have an amazing team, even if it’s just one or two people, it doesn’t have to be like, everyone’s business is different. But I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to go back to the drawing board, by just bringing on the wrong people, whether it be, you know, a customer service person or operations manager or marketing, you know, that, you know, you don’t ask the right questions up front to tell you what you want to hear. And then you get get in the deep, and it’s like, okay, I have to make a change, right. So you want to be able to have the right person on your team and be able to delegate things. Because for me, I like to be creative. I like to be the visionary, I don’t love having to, you know, stay on top of every little thing, because then I can’t really move forward and grow the business. So that’s something I had to learn being a little OCD and being a little, you know, micro micromanaging, right, so to speak. But when you’re first starting out, kind of have to do that. But you want to be able to get to a point where you can bring people in to help you that are really bringing value, you know, so that’s, that’s one of the things that’s just top of mind for me, because I’ve had to come back and remind myself of that, as I’ve been growing my business. But yeah, there’s so many things that we could say, right? But really, you know, believe in yourself. I think we pretty much anybody who’s listening to this hopefully knows that one, you know, and don’t expect for things to happen overnight. Don’t expect for yourself not to make mistakes. We all have done it. We’re going to continue to do it. And that’s how we learn and grow. Perfect.

Kara Goldin 31:54
Well, thank you so much, Leila. I will have all the info in the show notes for Leila Lee spice blends, but I really appreciate your time. It’s such an honor. And you’re so inspiring and so motivating. I can’t wait to meet you in person at some point to thank

Laila Ali 32:13
you. And thanks for all that you’ve done. And you’ve inspired me as well with your amazing product, which I’ve always loved him.

Kara Goldin 32:20
Oh, thank you. I think that really means a lot. So thank you. Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would, please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit and of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. I would love to hear from you too, so feel free to DM me. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal, best selling book undaunted, where I share more about my journey including founding and building hint. We are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks for listening and good bye for now.