Esther Wojcicki – Co-Founder of TractLearning, Inc. and Founder of the Palo Alto High School Media Arts Program

Episode 159

So honored to have Esther Wojcicki, the Godmother of Silicon Valley, on today’s show! Esther is Co-Founder of TractLearning, Inc. and the Founder of the Palo Alto High School Media Arts Program. In this episode, she shares her inspiring journey from her dream of becoming a journalist to finding her path towards becoming the amazing teacher that she is! Esther also talks about some of her teaching philosophy, her most recent endeavor in education technology, and most especially her “TRICK” in raising successful people. So excited for you to hear this wonderful conversation on #TheKaraGoldinShow

Resources from
this episode:


Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be, I want to just sort of make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked out knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Kara golden show. So join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone, its Kara golden from the Kara golden show. And I am so thrilled to have my next guest here, friend and super, super inspiring, wonderful human being Esther was insky. And I’ll tell you a little bit about Esther in case you’ve been hiding under a rock and are not familiar with who she is because she is just a total Wonder Woman, rock star or whatever. However you want to refer to Esther as but she is actually she’ll talk a little bit more about this. But up until recently, she was the incredible teacher at Palo Alto High School, but I’ve met many of her former students but she was also the founder of Palo Alto High School Media Arts program. And we’ll talk probably a little bit more about that. But today, she is the co founder of track learning and is really changing education for the better not that she hasn’t been working on that for years. But she now is a company that is focused on that. So really, really exciting and a little bit more about Aster to is is that she is the godmother of Silicon Valley. So nuff about these godfathers and she is God, mother of Silicon Valley. And she is also a an author, a fellow author, I should say, as as I like to call it of how to raise successful people. And I got this book a little while ago from Astor a signed copy. I’m lucky enough to have at TED. And we’ve enjoyed a few moments there as well. And very, very thrilled to have you here, Esther.

Esther Wojcicki 2:36
Well, I am thrilled to be part of this show. I cannot tell you, because it is I’ve watched them. And I think they’re great your current golden shows on their fantastic podcast. And I love the people that you have. And of course I love your book on done to undaunted, and I even wear your T shirt, I just want you to know.

Kara Goldin 3:01
Oh, I love that. Thank you so much. Well, it’s for undaunted people like you. So I love hearing that. So, so as your Take me back. So what was little Astor? Like,

Esther Wojcicki 3:13
oh, little Esther. So first of all, I was the only child until five years until I was five. And then I had a brother. And then I had another brother. So by the time I was nine, I had two brothers. And my parents didn’t have a lot of support or help or anything. So they pretty much left me on my own. And I just remember some of the things I did, like I would walk to school by myself, I mean, pretty long distance about a mile for, you know, a five year old. So, yeah, but that was the way it was I lived in the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles area. And, you know, it was quite rural at the time, I would just walk on dirt streets, there weren’t a lot of cars. So, you know, thinking back on that, you know, I felt pretty self confident. And I think I’m just doing that made me feel like I could do anything. And I pretty much could I could get around the neighborhood myself. You know, I have to take my mother and father for for doing that. Of course, they probably thought that they shouldn’t have done that they should have taken me there. But back in those days, that’s what your dad, I was not an outstanding student in elementary school. I was just a regular kid. I had to actually learn English first. So I mean, I spoke English, sort of, because my parents were Russian. So I spoke a combination language more than anything else.

Kara Goldin 4:45
So first generation

Esther Wojcicki 4:46
first, often born in the United States, right? My parents didn’t know much of anything about anything. And now it was kind of the wild found here in Los Angeles. It’s It was kind of exciting back then. course now it’s all built up. But it was really fun at that time.

Kara Goldin 5:05
So you continued in school, you learned English and continued in school and Los Angeles. And then Did you always want to be a teacher? Or did you take a detour before actually teaching?

Esther Wojcicki 5:18
You had? No, I didn’t always want to be a teacher, I wanted to be a journalist. That was my goal. And I started working as a journalist for the local newspaper at 14 years of age. And at that time, I wasn’t really writing much of anything. I was kind of the girl Friday, I did everything that they didn’t, that they didn’t want to do. And then they thought to themselves, well, you know, she can write, and so save us a lot of time and a lot of work. So they trained me to do a lot of things. They trained me, first of all, to go to the board meetings, the city council meetings, was there, nobody ever no one ever wanted to go. And so I was there doing that. And then I also went to sporting events, because they didn’t want to do that either for the high school, so I learned how to be a journalist, thanks to them. And that was my first goal, be a journalist. But then I ran into a few obstacles. Turns out that in the 1970s, and 80s, Oh, actually the 60s, women were not in journalism. It was an all man’s profession. Did you know that?

Kara Goldin 6:21
I didn’t know that. But I love hearing the story.

Esther Wojcicki 6:25
Yeah. So what I did is I ended up majoring in journalism, got as a graduate student got a graduate degree in journalism from the University of California, Berkeley. And then I couldn’t get into the press clubs in San Francisco, because they didn’t take women. I was just like, sorry, can’t do it. Wow. And the only thing that I was really encouraged to write was for the women’s section. They wanted more writers for the women’s section. And you know what that was, it’s kind of crazy. articles about food, housekeeping, taking care of kids, Dear Abby column belong to the women’s section. So the newspaper was always divided. There are four sections was the new section, opinion section, sports section and women section. And women were expected to read only the women’s section, Can you believe that? And I did not want to write for the women’s section, I wanted to write news. And that was kind of like not allowed at that time had to break in.

Kara Goldin 7:21
So how did you get around that? How did you end up doing what you wanted to do?

Esther Wojcicki 7:27
Well, it turned out that smaller newspapers couldn’t be as fussy, you know, smaller newspapers, were willing to take people, you know, to write for the for the news. So the Berklee daily Gazette, for example, was a smaller newspaper, second half of them. And there were other local newspapers like that, that I could work for. But after my daughters were born, I wanted to write for the local newspaper, which is the Palo Alto times Tribune. But they didn’t really have a job for me. They just again wanted more women section. So I said, Well, I’m going to teach journalism. Okay, guys, I can’t write for a paper because I’m a woman. Well, I can teach journalism, no problem with that. So that’s how I ended up becoming a journalism teacher.

Kara Goldin 8:15
That’s why so Paolo, were you always at Palo Alto, that was where you started?

Esther Wojcicki 8:20
No, I started actually, at a school in San the edge of that no longer exists called Pacific High School. And I did the yearbook there. And then I went for that was just one year. Then after that, I went to a school called San Carlos High School. Also no longer there. I don’t know what’s going on with some of these schools, but they think that’s cool. no longer exists. And then the third school I went to is Palo Alto High School, but it was only I think I’d only been teaching for maybe four years by the time I went to Palo Alto High School. And I ended up being a teacher of English and journalism. And I think it was social studies. Also, at the same time, I did three things.

Kara Goldin 9:02
And when did you so you founded the Palo Alto High School Media Arts program? How did that come about?

Esther Wojcicki 9:09
Well, in 1984, when I started in Palo Alto, high school, maybe art, or Palo Alto High School journalism, the program was just really small. It was 20 kids. And it just published a very tiny little newspaper, six to eight pages most. And I decided that the methodology they were using to teach just was not engaging. kids weren’t learning. Although I had to wait a couple years before I made the drastic change. Because I had to wait till I got tenure. You know, when you’re before 10 year you have to behave yourself. After 10 year you can come up with your own creative ideas. So what I did is I changed the way journalism was being taught to make it all project based, no textbook just using real newspapers, kids interacting peer to peer learning and you know Kids talk to each other, of course. And so within a very short period of time, the program grew from the initial 20 to 40. And then it kept growing. And by the time, you know, I’d been there 19 1819 Yeah, 88, the program was already at 100. And the administration was like, What’s going on here? That’s you, we can’t have one teacher and 100 kids, that’s just a little overwhelming. And so that’s when the program started to develop, I actually started a magazine called their day, and move kids into that program, then started online web program, you know, websites. And boy, that was really hard to start, because you can’t believe it, the administration, they didn’t want us to write about students, and they couldn’t put their picture in there. And you can put their full name, you could write stories, but everybody was paranoid about it. So and they actually had me take the whole thing down after I’d built it. So I had to take down and then build it up again. And you know, of course, today, it’s fine. But that was the initial thing. They were just kind of terrified. And so the journal, the online program came, and then actually today, there’s 10 magazines. And so there’s about between seven and 800. Kids taking the journalism program, it just kept growing every two years, I started another program. And that’s why I’m called, you know, I’m the founder of the media arts program, because there was no Media Arts program until I started doing that.

Kara Goldin 11:43
I love it. Well, I bet I see this thread in, as you’re describing this, too, that you were learning as well. Right? You were learning along the way you didn’t know how to build websites you didn’t understand, right? But you just took steps and just kept moving it forward.

Esther Wojcicki 12:01
That is 100%. True. I had no idea. I guess I’ve always been if I think back to my childhood, I’ve always been a risk taker. In one way or another. I was willing to try things. And even if they didn’t work out, I didn’t. That was okay. And so yes, I didn’t really know exactly what I was doing. But I was willing, I’ve collaborated with my students. And we build things together. And it was a wild frontier, I can tell you, when I first got those, those first computers as one of the first teachers in the country to use computers in the classroom. Wow, when I first got those computers, that was in 1987. And I remember I, I was audacious enough to apply for a grant to the state of California, on how to use computers in the classroom. Only I didn’t know how I got, I won the grant. And all these computers, there were six or eight of them that showed up. And then I had to tell my students, I don’t know what I’m doing. And do you guys want to help? Because otherwise, we wouldn’t be able to do it. And boy, did they love it. It was so exciting. We didn’t know they learn how to do at the same time I did, and learn how to use the Mac’s we had we got a program that was called all this corporation. And turns out all this corporation became it’s like pagemaker, it became forgotten the name of the company. It’s a big company, then it became but it was because of a father, who was a part of the board of aldus Corporation, that we were actually able to use the computer for producing a newspaper. It’s Adobe. That’s right.

Kara Goldin 14:01
That’s right.

Esther Wojcicki 14:03
But you know what, in between Adobe, and all this, they were something else. And I was trying to think of something else. So I’ve been connected with Adobe, since before it was Adobe.

Kara Goldin 14:15
Well, I love your style that you’re describing of teaching, though, and you know, being what is termed today as being vulnerable. Because I think that when you actually share that you don’t know exactly what you’re doing. But you’re moving forward, you get a lot of credibility. Right. You’re, you’re you’re going on that journey with your kids and your students. And as I as I mentioned, I’ve spoken in your classroom a couple of times over the years, and I’ve seen this, this dialogue that you have with your students is incredibly powerful. And I know that one somewhat famous person that was a student of yours, James Franco, I mean you still have a relationship. ship with James. I mean, I’m sure there’s many, many others. And it’s just and I really think it’s just because you’re just your awesome self and and you show up being yourself. And having that dialogue, which is, like really unusual, I think for many with their teachers,

Esther Wojcicki 15:17
I think that’s true. And that’s one of the things I’ve been trying to change is, you know, I want teachers to realize that they don’t have to know everything. Really, it is just crazy for them to think that they need to be the pinnacle of all the information in the world. And they can share, they can say, I don’t understand this, because I just remember when Snapchat came out, for example, I was like, Oh, my God, what is this? And I just announced to the class, I have no clue what Snapchat is, and why I should ever want to use it, whatever. And I was like, who wants to teach me and everybody wanted to teach me? You know, they already do.

Kara Goldin 15:54
And that’s amazing. I mean, I think there’s a lot of leadership lessons in there to rester where it’s something that I often talk about in my own organization is, in one of the chapters in the book, I talked about this to that manager inside of our organization when he was trying to hire somebody. I said, What do they know that you don’t know? And he said, Nothing. They’re just going to be doing work. And I said, Well, you know, that’s not going to be very exciting for you, is it? And he said, I don’t know where you’re going with this. Why would I hire somebody who knows more than I do? And I said, See, that’s the problem. That is a total problem, right? If you stop, because that’s the thing. That’s why you smile, right? Because you’re learning from these people, right? You’re not, it’s not you against them. And you’re here to teach everything, you’ve got to have a dialogue.

Esther Wojcicki 16:52
Right? Now, that’s huge. And so that’s, that’s exactly what I’ve always done. And that’s what I’m trying to encourage teachers to do. Because right now, kids have access to the whole web, they’ve got access to, you know, Google and YouTube, and they can find information out on their own. The main skill that I have always used was teaching them how to search intelligently. And one of my good friends wrote a book called The joy of search. And I just think it’s a great book for all kids. And I’ve used their lesson, the lessons in that book, his name is Dan Russell. And he has a lot of great lessons. And it’s great for teachers to use that. So that actually, they can expect their students to come up with ideas about whatever it is they’re teaching, that makes the lesson much more engaging and exciting. And that’s what I’ve always done. And I was like, most kids, they know a lot. And they’re incredible.

Kara Goldin 17:55
I love that. So you started a company. You’ve retired now from Palo Alto High School, but you’ve started a company, I’m sure bringing in a lot of the things that you’ve been thinking about over the years and and the lessons you’ve learned. It’s called track learning. Can you talk to us a little bit about it?

Esther Wojcicki 18:15
Yes. So track learning is for people to access it, they just go track dot A PP track dot app, tra CT dot app. And it is by kids. It’s the first and actually only online platform where we have teenagers teaching preteens. So it’s collaborative, I’m trying to bring to the web, the model that I use to my classroom, because there’s no one more influential in a kid’s life than another kid that’s just a little bit older. I and so this is teenagers are creating learning paths for kids, eight to 14. So the users are eight to 14. But we’re also we’re looking for creators, teenagers who want to be creators of learning for younger kids. And we’re hat we’ve started a Creator Academy, where we actually teach kids how to create videos that they can put on track, but they can also share them on other websites as well, YouTube if they want. The idea is creating learning about what they’re passionate about. And it can be climate, it can be anything poverty, or it can be gaming, it can be dancing, whatever they are interested in, they can share it on tract, and then we have an educational component. So we make sure that it’s educational, and that it teaches what I call the four C’s. It’s communication, creativity, critical thinking and collaboration. Those are the four C’s. And I actually added a fifth C on my own just recently. It’s called come Passion, compassion in this world today, we all need compassion, because it’s been a rather troubling world for the last year, or even longer.

Kara Goldin 20:11
I totally agree. I think a lot about Gen Z. And many of these, you know, kids that you’ve been teaching coming out into the world starting in the workforce, they’re participating right classrooms have changed significantly, over the last 10 years. In particular, were no longer when I went to school, it was lectures, right? You were having a professor up there, and you were just lecture two today, you have to participate. And you know, whether it’s a private school or public school, I mean, you do and, and most of these classes, and so these kids are kids are coming into the workforce, and they want to participate. They want to have an interactive dialogue. They don’t want to be told what to do they want to actually bring their own learnings. And so what are your thoughts on kind of education today? And how will that change in the future as well?

Esther Wojcicki 21:07
Well, I think education been totally disrupted. And so my theory is, or my philosophy is, never let a good crisis go to waste. And what can we do now that we have this crisis, to improve the model that we had before. And the best thing I think we can do is incorporate technology effectively, because technology, that’s how we’ve survived this pandemic. We’re all using zoom. But zoom is too much, you know, seven hours a day of zoom, or five hours a day of zoom, depending on your child at too much. But that doesn’t mean that we should not use it at all. And in the past, we didn’t use it at all. So can we have what I called I wrote this book in 2015, called moonshots in education, launching blended learning. And, by the way, awesome, excellent. And the blend is a blend of technology and in class lectures. And so I’m hoping in the fall, when we all go back to school, that there can be some of the training that we’re doing some of the education can be online. And so it gives kids an opportunity to be independent learners, and to share with their peers, as opposed to putting the total responsibility on the teacher. That’s my goal. And that’s what tract fits into is what I call 20%. Time. So for 20% of the time, schools should a lot, an opportunity for kids to learn what they are interested in. And tracked gives kids an opportunity to learn what they are interested in. And when we’ve launched it this spring, already, we’re giving all teachers free access to track all teachers. So individual teachers can apply. They just go to teach dot track dot app, and then they get free access. And as I said, my goal really is to help teachers,

Kara Goldin 23:13
I absolutely love that. And, and so just as an example, what is one of the things that you’ve seen on there that you think would be great for teachers to grab?

Esther Wojcicki 23:23
Well, so let me just tell you what it is, is, I’ve always talked about 20% time with a nonprofit called Global And in that was like in 20% of the time, give kids an opportunity to do what they think is important. And I always caught these questions from teachers is like, Well, can you send me the lesson plans for 20% time, that’s like, hey, they get to do what they want. There are no lesson plans. And so I built tract in a way that fits into that 20% time. So teachers can actually see what the kids are doing, they can see it. But the kids get to interact independently with other kids. And they get to learn things like for example, we have a little bit they’re crazy because of course they’ve been created by teenagers. One of the examples is how to grow a one ton pumpkin. Okay, this kid actually grew a one ton pumpkin and halfmoon Bay. And while kids might be really interested in that particular topic, what they’re learning is science. It’s all science of how to grow a pumpkin, but it doesn’t have to apply just the pumpkins applies to our plants. So botany disguised in the as how to grow one time pumpkin. And there’s a lot of learning paths. We have hundreds of learning paths. They span the whole curriculum. They’re actually tied to the Common Core State Standards. But we don’t promote that to the students, what we’re trying to promote to the students is an opportunity for you to look at anything you want, space exploration, anything that you’re interested in, we’ve got a learning path for. And if you’re a teenager, 15 and older, and you want to create a learning path, we’ll be happy to accept you in our Learning Path creator, Institute, that we are teaching kids how to be creators. So that’s that’s the goal to work with kids, eight to 14, and teenagers 15 to 20. And give both groups an opportunity to participate in education. That’s it.

Kara Goldin 25:47
I love this so much. And what are the age groups that most of these programs I mean, I would think, for example, that topic in particular, I think that it’s pretty broad. I mean, I if I would say high school students would be even interested in that. But then also, you know, younger kids would be as well,

Esther Wojcicki 26:06
well, our target age is eight to 14. So grades 45678. But older kids might be interested also, usually, historically, in schools, it’s been really hard to educate kids in the middle school. Because middle school kids are busy growing, and they’re been always, you know, issues, maintaining their attention, and capturing their attention. And so this target is targeting that age group, because we’re trying to get them to be interested in something and develop a passion for it. And then by the time they’re in high school pursuing that passion. I mean, my goal is to empower kids. I’ve been working on that my whole life. And this is a way to empower kids that are younger, and empower teenagers who want to teach other kids. And the kids that are creators that are accepted as creators, they actually earn a revenue just like they do on YouTube. It’s the same situation setup only, in some sense, it might be better because they earn a base pay as well. My goal is not to improve education. Now is the time to do it. Because the whole system’s been disrupted.

Kara Goldin 27:24
So you wrote a book A few years ago, I touched on this, you’ve written a few books, but right, this is two or three.

Esther Wojcicki 27:31
This is number two, actually, I wrote a one before that, too. But this, these two are the major ones.

Kara Goldin 27:37
So how to raise successful people, simple lessons for radical results. I feel like, gosh, I just want to hang out with you every day, Esther because you’ve got so many, you know, life lessons. And And, by the way, for those of you who don’t know, Esther has a few daughters. One who is running a company called 23andme. And and and then we have YouTube as well. And, and so clearly knows how to raise successful people. What do you What is the secret there?

Esther Wojcicki 28:10
Well, it’s this acronym that’s in the book. It’s trick. And I developed this together with my students, they helped me figure out what I was doing that made them want to take my class. And so it Trix stands for trust, respect, independence, collaboration, and kindness. I trust them and respect their ideas, give them a lot of independence, collaborate, instead of dictating, and always treat them with kindness. And it works in parenting, and it works in the classroom. And it works in the corporate world. And it really, I

Kara Goldin 28:47
mean, you continue to do that too. And and I saw you were on vacation together. I mean, you’re still you guys still hang out. I love seeing that. It makes me very, very happy. And certainly, you know, they they have so much to learn from you. You learn from them, obviously, your your daughter at from YouTube. I mean, you’ve learned probably quite a bit, certainly more than I know about YouTube. And maybe that helps you to think about, you know, how do I do something that is actually going to tie in what I love doing education and create a company out of that.

Esther Wojcicki 29:24
That’s right. Also one other little tidbit that I should mention that is really interesting. The CEO of tracked dot app, track learning is my former student.

Kara Goldin 29:35
Oh, that’s terrific. I did not know

Esther Wojcicki 29:38
him when he was 14 years old. Today, he’s 32. So I’ve known him for half his life.

Kara Goldin 29:48
But that’s great. And I think I think that you are you are setting the stage obviously for people to you know, go and do great big things. But also continue learning. Right that that must that’s a really powerful thing to think that somebody is choosing a career that is not closed ended that is open, then it is all about learning. I mean, that’s a really powerful thing.

Esther Wojcicki 30:15
Well, I think that edtech today is the number one exploding investment area agreement. You know, more people are investing because they see the promise of technology, and education. And so I would like to just encourage more people to be involved. And like I said, more teachers to be involved more parents to be involved. We have free access to for parents to which I didn’t mention, and they just type in the code word, which is the first three letters of my name, w o. j watch, which is the nickname my students have all called me for years. So it’s just you type in wads and you get free access to the app as well. And so, yeah, there’s another opportunity for everybody to be involved.

Kara Goldin 31:10
I absolutely love it.

Esther Wojcicki 31:11
I can tell you, I’ve tried it out on a lot of kids. And it works. That’s why I’m so passionate about it. You know, I’m telling you, there’s nothing that is as effective as treating kids with trust, respect and kindness. You know, love it.

Kara Goldin 31:27
That’s, I totally agree. Don’t you four words? Yeah, four.

Esther Wojcicki 31:35
So they’re all really successful. So you must have done something right.

Kara Goldin 31:40
Well, they’re working on it. They still challenge me. I learned from them every single day. So it’s a Yeah, when I I didn’t learn well, I know how to do Snapchat, but mine was at the beginning of the pandemic, I wanted to know about this tik tok thing and so I I went on tik tok. And I’ve got a little following on Tick Tock now, and it’s pretty I’m not dancing, don’t worry. I’m actually, you know, what’s fascinating for me about Tick Tock is that I’ve taken a lot of my talks that I’ve done about entrepreneurism, and I started recording those talks. And then I take on while on my own, and then I shorten them into little clips, and I brought them over to tick tock, you’ll have to check it out. And there’s all and, and we shorten them down to little lessons along the way. And so I’m hearing from so many people who had, they knew about hints. So most of them did, some of them didn’t, but then also to see that the founder of a company that they love, and a product that they love is a real person, that I am being vulnerable about the fact that I didn’t know what I was doing. I just walked into Whole Foods and tried to get a product on the shelf. Right, then they’re sharing it, and it’s become this organic thing, right where people are. So I’ve got this audience on tik tok, that is typically younger than the rest of the platforms that I’m on that all they want to, they want to know about entrepreneurism. They want to understand how do you parent and also go run a company, all of these things that again, some of your kids in your class asked me about, but I couldn’t bring it and again, it has to be short clips. And you know, and it’s but you can see on Tic Tac what I’ve done, I mean, I could imagine you would do the same I mean, a lot of the things that you talk about that you know, I really

Esther Wojcicki 33:47
great idea. That is I need it right here on your show. This is a fantastic idea. I will try it. Yeah, I’m also go on your tik tok

Kara Goldin 33:58
channel and check it out. And what really annoys my children and and will probably annoy yours and your grandkids too is that I get on the fyp front, you know, the front page a lot. And you know, and so the first time that happened, my kids were like, what, why? Like, how did she How is she getting a promotion? And so then my kids finally figured out that I was a cool Boomer and I said by the way, I’m not a boomer but Okay, I know you’re making right and then so now their friends are saying oh Your mom is on the front page and I mean they’re just laughing and I mean I said you can laugh all you want but you’re not you’re not on the front page. So I need to check it out. Esther you’re a lot of your content is. So again, I have no idea what I’m doing. I’m learning as I go, I’m meeting new people along the way as well. And I’m just having fun, right? And I feel like maybe I’m inspiring some people along the way to know that you don’t have to have all the answers, you don’t have to be perfect. You need to just get out there and go try and, and I think vulnerability, which is what I touched on with you is something that I’m hearing over and over again, is not, we don’t teach that in school, but instead it’s like, go for so many years

Esther Wojcicki 35:34
in is tell you what it’s like in schools, just the opposite of vulnerability. Seattle is all based around fear. Fear that you’re going to get a bad grade afraid to talk to the teacher afraid that your friends will make fun of you afraid that you aren’t doing things right. Afraid. That’s all fear. And so that works totally against creativity and being able to come up with new ideas. Kids are afraid to do anything, they’re afraid that they won’t get into the College of their choice if they do things in, you know, that are creative. And I think we need to stop that. That’s again, part of my motivation for track. Yeah, I just love your hand water. I should just, I’m sorry. little plug in here, but I’m not kidding. I love everything about it. And we drink.

Kara Goldin 36:23
Oh, nice. That’s, that’s so nice. Well, anyway, I think we’re gonna have a new we’re gonna see a new person on tik tok. I think very soon. Astra skin, I think she’s gonna get up there because you do you have so much wisdom. And, you know, it’s I think it really just proves that it’s not building a business on tik tok or YouTube, I’m sure as your other daughter we’re talking about. It’s not it’s not just one size fits all. There’s all different, you know, content on there for different audiences. And anyway, more than anything, I’m just having a lot of fun. So well, this has been amazing, Esther, so thrilled that you were able to come on and join me Where can people find out more about you and and your company and connect?

Esther Wojcicki 37:14
Well, I think the best way just to go to w o j at DOT track dot app is probably best way to find if they have just if they’re just parents, or just interested people, they could just go on that. Or the other way would be if they’re teachers and just want to get an introduction. They’d go to teach dot track dot app, and then they can find out more about it. And you know, if they are just want to cruise through and take a look, no problem. Also, they can always just send me a question. If they have any questions at all. It’s Esther at track dot app. And I will answer all the questions. So I’m really like I said, help is my number one goal. Help all the parents and teachers be more effective and help kids be happier.

Kara Goldin 38:13
I love it. Well, thank you so much, Astor. And definitely if you haven’t read how to raise successful people, get out and buy that book as well. And I appreciate all of you for listening. Please subscribe to the podcast and give estar five stars on Apple podcast, Spotify, or your favorite platform. And if you have not picked up a copy of my book, to undaunted, overcoming doubts, and doubters, I hope that you will do that as well or listen on Audible too. And thanks, everyone. We’re here every Monday and Wednesday with really inspiring guests. And hope you guys have a great week. Thanks so much. Thank you. Bye bye. before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where buy new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book calm and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara golden and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn Kara golden golden thanks for listening