David Karr: Co-Founder of Guayaki Yerba Mate

Episode 371

David Karr, Co-Founder of Guayaki Yerba Mate, knew when he was first introduced to the South American drink that he was hooked. Together, with four other friends, he decided to launch a company that would bring mate to the American market. Driving all over the country living out of their van while brewing up free samples for consumers and trying to convince natural food stores to sell their product, it would take almost 15 years of hustle before the company felt confident that they were going to make it. You hear all about their mission, their unwavering commitment to communities and the environment as well as their relentless pursuit to making the business happen. I am certain you will be inspired by what David has to share. This episode is filled with so much inspiration and takeaways you won’t want to miss! On this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow.

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. It’s Kara Goldin with the Kara Goldin show. And I am absolutely thrilled to have my next guest here at the Kara Goldin show. As you know, we talk with founders and disruptors, entrepreneurs and authors and hear all of their stories and all of their learnings along the way, for sure, inspiring people that you really need to hear from are is really my goal to go and grab these these incredible people and have a discussion with them. So today, we have David Karr, who is the co founder of quiet key, yerba monta. And in the mid 1990s, when David was first introduced to the South American drink, he was hooked. And together with four other friends, well, one, I think was actually a brother. But you know, he was his friend as well, he decided to launch a company that would bring Matteo to the American market and driving all over the country living out of their van while brewing up free samples for consumers, and trying to convince natural food stores to sell their product, it would take almost 15 years of hustle before the company really felt that it was going to truly take off and boy, have they ever so their mission is to create a great product, coupled with their unwavering commitment to communities. And the environment continues still to this day. And David and his co founders have taken an idea that they were super passionate about and curious about and made it happen. So I’m really excited to have one of the co founders, David, with us here today. So welcome, David,

David Karr 2:34
thank you for having me. This is exciting. So before

Kara Goldin 2:37
we get into hearing more about why a key and your journey building it, I would love to hear more about kind of you and your early years. I mean, did you ever think that you were going to be an entrepreneur or do what you’re doing today?

David Karr 2:53
I think in my younger years, not really, because I was, you know, I consider myself privileged because I grew up in Northern California, and I had opportunity. And I went to university. And I was just kind of going through the motions of like, okay, I was gonna go to business school and, you know, grew up in Silicon Valley, I was around a lot of entrepreneurs and innovation. And I had this idea that cool, there’s exciting companies. But it wasn’t until I was down in San Luis Obispo where I went to university, that I ended up realizing that that was kind of my path because I wanted to do something on my own. And it started I was actually starting a computer business because I didn’t know what else to do. And because I grew up around technology, it wasn’t that foreign to me. And literally, we were helping people buy a computer, I remember back in the day, you had to like buy your RAM and you’re wrong and your keyboard and put it all together. And then for that was like a lot for people at the time, you know, and it was kind of just selling them the computer. But when I met Alex, my co founding partner from Argentina, I was it was a whole nother thing I was I was swept away by everything. So I went a whole different direction to technology.

Kara Goldin 4:10
I love it. So before we jump into Alex, because I really want to hear that story. How would you describe why a key to people?

David Karr 4:20
Well, I would say I generally describe us as regenerative mindset companies, and that we’re really trying to leverage business to create positive change in the world. It was really apparent to me in business school when there wasn’t even a sustainability class and everything was about the bottom line that we’re like on a crash course. As a civilization, it just didn’t make sense to me, there was no incentive to be of a holistic oriented company where you consider the social environment or the cultural philosophical. And so, you know, it’s just that was just my perspective on things as a younger student going through university.

Kara Goldin 5:01
Interesting and so the taste of it like when people say what what does it taste like? I mean what I mean how would you really describe it? It’s definitely

David Karr 5:11
earthy woodsy type flavor, like a bit like a green tea, sometimes grassy and flavor and then it really depends on how you you process the Yerba Sun monta is have a much smoother flavor profile because they’re grown in the shade of the rainforest, like our product. And so that’s something we’ve always aspired to do is create a product that had this this flavor possible for a year monta and also didn’t have like a bitter illness or a stomach acidity. A lot of people talk complain about stomach acidity, and bitterness, monta, which we don’t really hear with our monta compared to like conventional lattes, it’s not too dissimilar from the coffee industry where you have the majority of the coffee produced in a conventional way for maximum profit and yields. And it’s typically grown, you know, with pesticides or herbicides, anything they could do to maximize all that. And with Monte, it’s much the same where’s the only difference is your formatting isn’t native forest trees, so you get the highest quality, best tasty monta from the forest. And so that’s where we’re at.

Kara Goldin 6:20
Very cool. Well, as I mentioned to you, before we got started my, my kids in high school, were introduced to it because it’s stocked very in a very, very wonderful way inside of cafeterias. And many schools within Marin County, I’m sure as well as many other areas, and it is definitely a very hot drink amongst high school students, for sure. And like I said, probably many, many other students as well. But I know in these high schools, it’s definitely a drink that has talked about and and definitely is differentiated versus other mottos, as you mentioned, to So you met your co founder, one of your co founders, Alex in college, I’d love to hear a little bit more about that.

David Karr 7:12
Yeah, sure will really be was Alex who started on his own. And I happen to meet him like right in the beginning when I was starting this computer business, and he was decided he wanted to start selling yerba monta because a lot of his Latin friends were drinking this monta he had that was so different than the ones they grew up because he was getting this special monta from a rainforest. And it was like differently, what is this stuff and it’s really good. So I met him when he had the product, packaging all in a little tin tie bag, with a sticker on it and one store in San Luis Obispo foods and family. And it was like a co op. And I met him at that time. And he invited me over for a traditional barbecue like Alisha where they cook meat. And so we had a hurricane that after the meal he passed around the traditional Montego ward. And after I drank the core, everything changed. Literally everything changed for me in terms of like, how I looked at things, what was possible where I wanted to go. And there’s another story here, but I’ll stop.

Kara Goldin 8:23
Now. I love it. And so can you share a little bit about the founding story? I mean, at that point, you know, did you want to get down to sort of see where this was grown and and understand more about it.

David Karr 8:37
Just to kind of back up like I was very lifestyle oriented, going to school and slow down. I love the mountains, the ocean. And I decided at a young age that I didn’t really care so much. But I did as long as I was connected to nature, and I felt passionate about what I was doing. And so when I met Alex, after six months, I found myself talking more about what he was doing than what I was doing. So I continued doing what I was doing. I’m like, What am I doing? And he just said to me one day, he’s like, Hey, if you the door’s always open if you want to join and, and so I jumped in with him. But that a little bit of the origin story for me, which I think is important for people to know. And it’s very typical of founders that have this kind of experience like I suffered most of my young life with extreme allergies and hay fever growing up, I was always something in blue, and I had humidifiers in my bedroom and I took drugs like pharmaceutical drugs, Sudafed, Benadryl most of my life and it just was always in a fog and I hated the way it felt. And so finally, like caught all that stuff, cold turkey, when I was in my late teens in university and and the more I exercise, the better I felt was like the only time my head was ever clear. So that day when I drank a gourd really strong and I’m looking at it and I was told that I was allergic to everything green. I’m drinking like the Most green thing I’ve ever had like a metal straw stuck in the middle of it. And within 1520 minutes of drinking it, like, my nose started to clear, not perfectly, but like, I could breathe, My head started, a headache started going away. And like, I was like, What is this stuff? I’ve never heard of this stuff. And like, I’m from California, we kind of hear about everything. And like, no one knew what it was. But of course, like, full South American continent knows what it is. And everyone is familiar with the Bramante. But in North America at the time, not many people were very few. So, you know,

Kara Goldin 10:33
so you literally like caught the bug there, because you thought that it was gonna, it solved a problem for you. And I think you’re right,

David Karr 10:40
exactly. So I was I was bitten by, like, right away. And then I just really loved all the stories, Alex was sharing with me about how this product grew naturally in the forest and his dream of growing it back in the forest, in regenerate rainforest. And it can cut down for a very commercial ag reasons. And it can be used as a financial driver to like reforest and support the indigenous people and work with small farmers. And I was like, Yeah, this is, that’s how business should be run, it can be used for a force for good. And the more the more we scale, the more we can do inside of like, the more you scale, generally, the opposite. So I really love that how it could be something that people could be part of a movement and get behind and kind of ties into your first question. I felt like we are part of, we’re like a regenerative company, part of a regenerative movement of many companies wanting to leverage business through positive means.

Kara Goldin 11:34
Well, and you were ahead of your time, wouldn’t you agree? I mean, as you’re, as you’re starting this, and you’re, again, really passionate about it, you you understand what this product can do. But no one was doing this at least not in the US in a commercial way. Correct?

David Karr 11:54
No, I mean, really, I mean, there’s a couple brands that were there, but not really there have been just like us, we were like, so small for so many years. And you know, we didn’t know what we’re doing either. Yeah, we’re not like, No, we’re not, I mean, relatively just unexperienced inexperienced, and just going for passion and believing in the product. But like, no, like, I look back on it’s like, wow, we’re, you know, there’s obviously a bit of luck in order to clearly

Kara Goldin 12:25
Yeah, for sure. Well, I always tell the story, when we were launching, hence, 17 years ago, you know, I went to the buyers that these different grocery stores and and said, Hey, I’ve got this great product, no one else is doing an unsweetened flavored water, and they take out their planogram. And I’m like, I get it, I get it. Like, we don’t fit into a category. But you know, just create a category. And there, you know, we can’t do that. And so that was, I mean, I’m sure that’s exactly the same situation with you guys, you didn’t fit. And so therefore, you couldn’t be sold in many of these stores until maybe until there was competition and other people were kind of getting into your space to make the space bigger. I’d love to hear kind of your story on that.

David Karr 13:20
I’m sure it wasn’t too dissimilar from your experience where it was like they liked you and your passion and they wanted to make something work because they liked you. Otherwise, they would write and, and same thing for us. Except for the very beginning, there was no room. And so we said, look, we’ll stand in the store and demo the product all day long. And we’ll sell the product for you. And then you can pay us at the end of the demo. And that went on for like I think like a year, year and a half. We would just do that. Because we are confident that we can sell the packages of loose monta to people in the store if they could try it and drink it and feel it. That’s how we started the company.

Kara Goldin 14:00
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I think I may have been in the store when I saw you guys demoing early on and it was you know, as I always share with entrepreneurs to nothing takes the place of a founder actually being it out there and sampling and being in the mix so that it’s just the passion just you know, is shining through and when when they’re doing that so it’s very, very cool. side hustles are all the rage these days. And why not? It’s an easy way to make money whether your side hustle is E commerce affiliates, newsletters or chat GPT now is the time to make your dream become a reality. And here is where hostinger comes in. hostinger offers high quality web hosting services with all the resources you need to succeed online. Interested in setting up a new website. Setting up that initial website is super easy and extremely intuitive with hostinger. You can launch a WordPress website in one click or use hostinger is drag and drop Website Builder. worried you might not be able to get the look you want. Don’t be with over 150 Beautiful and fully customizable templates to choose from. They’ve got you covered. And as I said hostinger makes it ridiculously simple to make it all happen. Whether you’re a newbie or a pro, they can even help you create a free logo in seconds using their ai logomaker. It’s really all pretty awesome. Whether you’re interested in setting up a website like I did with hint water or creating that newsletter that you’ve always dreamed about. hostinger is a great option for anyone who wants a straightforward option. Sign up now for one incredible offer. Go to hostinger.com/kara Goldin to get everything you need to create your website for less than $3 per month plus 10% Off with promo code Kara Goldin, that’s hostinger.com/kara Goldin, promo code, Kara Goldin for an extra 10% off. How else did you get the word out about gua key?

David Karr 16:18
That was it. You know, it was it was my brother Steven and don’t make off. So the three of us like full time living on the road. Most I’d say 75% of the time we are in our first VW bus and then one of two different RVs just traveling the country and and we loved serving monta It was so fun to turn people onto it because it is a stimulant. And people would get picked up. And they feel euphoric. When they’re drinking it made big enough cups that when you hand someone a full cup of latte or a latte latte, they would get really excited about it. So we actually just nonstop loved serving Monty and we did that for years. And there was nothing else that we did. And then we started going to music festivals and doing the same thing.

Kara Goldin 17:04
So I remember seeing you at many music festivals as well, the energy there. I mean, I really think that you guys embraced the music festival scene, but they also embraced you or do you feel like that was where you really kind of have the pole strategy of of getting this into retailers? Did retailer start calling you at that point?

David Karr 17:30
Not really, it was more just like we were putting it in the retail space and then trying to create demand for the product. So they are always big. Oh, yeah, they started hearing that it sold. And then it wasn’t like a mad rush for the product ever. I and I think you know, we also weren’t very skilled or strategic. I mean, we literally had a book called The tofu tollbooth that we found on the shelf, and it had a list of all the natural food sources 25 years ago. Yeah. And we would just be like, Oh, look, there’s one here in Nashville. Let’s drive there. And he drives the next one, we just go over the book had addresses in the in the very beginning. So over the first. And then you know, when we started going into bigger stores like wild oats and Whole Foods at the time, you could still just go in and talk to the buyer and they’ll take your product and there wasn’t all these planograms had buyers it wasn’t we are so early that that didn’t really happen. So it was just our passion and showing up and be like, hey, the product is gonna sell we’ll do a demo for three days in a row. We’ll do them when they Okay, great. And I think what happened was, what led us to the festivals was, we realize we’ve been so much fun. And people want to just hang out with us because we’re having so much fun serving monta and everyone in the room was drinking Mai Tais. And the whole store was drinking latte. And the same thing would happen in a festival and so we just never got tired because we have fun drinking mountain and then it just became high vibes because people love the feeling of drinking Mai Tais catching their favorite music act. So it just that was it. And then musician started drinking Mai Tais because we’d be backstage now. Okay, now, the Navy talking about cannabis is so much better than the other stuff that we used to like staff and it just kind of fed on itself. And we’re just one foot in front of the next no great strategic plan. Just having fun sharing the product. We love feeling good and having tons of energy.

Kara Goldin 19:21
Well, you guys have definitely done that. And you can tell you’re you’ve been having a great time and growing it for sure. So you were with you have four other co founders, and one of them’s your brother, but as I mentioned earlier, a bunch of friends, like would you recommend that to other people when they’re thinking about having co founders? I mean, what’s what’s sort of your advice to people like why why it’s worked?

David Karr 19:49
Well, I don’t know about advising people on stuff like that because there’s a certain serendipity and a magic that happened for us and I know that relationships can be It’s hard and difficult in business. I think what was different for us looking back was, we all from the very beginning felt like the spirit of yerba monta, and the power of the plant was bigger than any one of us. And we are all just messengers on this journey to like, get the word out and share about this product and what it represented for the movement and how people can come together to make change. And so we never actually had really challenging times as partners. In fact, we’re all still great friends, we’re going on a surf trip next week, you know, together, we do things together to spend time to connect, and we have so many memories to cherish and look back on and new ones that we’re creating. And it’s been a giant journey. I mean, with Alex and I, it’s almost 27 years. And then with the other guys, it’s like 26 and 25, you know, and so, all of us, it’s been 25. And Alex and I Yeah, we met 27 years ago. So it’s, we vacation together, our kids know each other and hanging out. It’s, it’s a really special thing. It doesn’t happen that often. So I wouldn’t say like, it’s a good idea. There’s a lot of stress and challenges in business. And I think it can come between relationships and friendships. So it’s not like a recipe for everyone.

Kara Goldin 21:15
Yeah, no, for sure. Well, I think when I think about brands that have, you know, really started from a passion and a commitment, I think about you all as, as one of those brands that has, has, you know, really puts stakes in the ground around a reason for being it’s not just about a great product, but also doing lots of things to help the environment and stay sustainable and but I’m sure you’ve had also challenging times along the way have you ever thought about in those years, like okay, this isn’t gonna work? Is there any story that sort of comes to mind where you’re like, oh, no, like this is it? We’re Yeah, we’re at.

David Karr 22:02
It happened. I’d say like there’s two times where I was just praying a lot. One time, it was more back in 2003. Ish. 2000 for that first time we had, it was one of those situations where, you know, women’s world that tablet magazine in the supermarkets, they like talk about something like fad or trend and they called yerba monta South America secret weight loss tea. And they put a picture of like our tea bag blends and they had and like, yeah, people use Motzei for weight loss because it curbs your appetite, etc. But not by drinking like one and a half grams of a tea bag with the big three gram tea bag split with one and a half grams. And those wouldn’t be like a powerful module, right? They’re like a light afternoon cup of monta mixed system tea. And what happened was all the stores called GNC Vitamin Shoppe, I took the calls. And I was like, right, I’m super naive. I didn’t sign the dotted line and like sold them so much product and our sales just, like doubled and tripled and just went from like, 100 a month to 200 to 400. Even like six it was like, wow, what’s happening here, right? And for us, you know, eight years in or whatever that was. It was a big deal. But there was an observer fads and then doesn’t really work and didn’t live up to the promise. So, but what happened was we bought it or they bought it on consignment. I agreed to sell them on consignment, you know, like, Oops, you know, yeah. Yeah, you know, and then we run cash, everything’s getting returned. It was like we’re spiraling down. We’ve just raised money before that. And then because you because of a cover story on Money Magazine that came out. And so then we actually raised our first money, and then it all got depleted. And so now we’re back. But what but you know, you try to learn from those experiences, right? Well, obviously, there’s a lot to learn. But one of the things was until that point, we are only a quarter for recording quarter one business right. We sold a hot beverage, loose yerba monta and teabags, Mati tea bags. So you know, our strong from like September through March, April. And that was when the article came out, came out, like in August, and then we had the whole ramp and then and then around strong month, December, January, February, like it just started going down and down and down. So our partners were like, we need to do a beverage we can’t be just a to use two quarter company, we need to do a four season beverage just to stabilize your cash flows. And just to have like a Yeah, a rhythm.

Kara Goldin 24:49
So that’s what really came out of that experience. So

David Karr 24:53
my glasses are first class balls.

Kara Goldin 24:55
I love everything. Yeah, well, and that’s an essential Same because, you know, I always say that search for the the good and in the rotten experiences, right? They’re super challenging, for sure. Because we all have them. If you were to like do I mean it sounds like consignment really is not something that you do any more apt for sure. But like, is there anything else that like you’ve learned along the way? I mean, obviously, you’ve built boards, you’ve raised capital you’ve hired you fired? Like, is there anything that says that, you know, you ever from your journey, you have pretty strong opinions about something along the way?

David Karr 25:41
Yeah, I mean, I think big picture like the times where my my spidey senses and my gut and my intuition is giving me mixed messages. I need to listen, the times that I’ve listened, it’s always worked in the times where I haven’t listened. I have had to deal with a lot of problems and drama and get back in the mix. And it’s like, I felt something but I, but I wasn’t paying attention to it strong enough, because I had other things that were driving me to do things and it’s like, yeah, not anymore. It’s got to be a hell yeah. Or no, you know?

Kara Goldin 26:19
Yeah. Well, as as somebody said to me the other day, you know, hope is not a strategy. And I think there’s many times when you look back, and you’re like, Oh, that’s really didn’t end up the way that I wanted it to end up, and then you look back, and, and you kind of hoped, right, that it would all turn out even and didn’t trust your didn’t trust your gut, I think what you’re mentioning, I’ve got many of those experiences as well. So for sure, what are you most proud of, of the, of the journey when you? I don’t know, maybe your kids start to ask you, you know, Dad, what, what have you done with guava key that you’re just super proud about?

David Karr 27:05
I feel really good about all the relationships that we’ve made over the years, and all the bonds we’ve forged with people in the movement, who are really, who really want to imagine a world where commerce can be a source for positive good. And to see the movement. And when we started, we were one of the founding members of the corporation, it was like under 25 companies now there’s six 6000 of them in 60 plus countries and organic We are like a first organic fairtrade beverage that, that made it you know, that’s just to help people dream big, and know that your dreams can come true. And that you can really like you are the people you work with, you can love the people you work with. And you can be passionate about doing something that’s good for you and good for the world. Like there is a version of reality, where humanity actually rallies together, and creates a lot of good even though there’s so many things we need to do better. It’s just more looking at with that regenerative lens of like, okay, well, we’re doing these things, right, these things are okay, and these things are not okay. And like, let’s just be honest about it, and try to come up with a plan and, and a stage plan to work on all these things at different times. And, but to keep our focus and, you know, we have our values today, we’re still we’re still carrying about the same things, our visions still the same, we’re still, everything’s still there. They were just more people on the team. And so I love that there’s that movement, and there’s the power the people and like the customer feels like they’re making a difference when they’re buying our product that that feels the best, like your legacy is intact.

Kara Goldin 28:45
Yeah, no, I totally agree. It’s, it’s, it’s great to hear that for sure. And you’re still very, you’re not operating the company on a day to day basis, but you’re still very involved in what the brand the steaks, like, is what I like to think about it and seeing close to you know, what the brand means to people and, and what it represents.

David Karr 29:11
Yeah, I feel really good about all the transitions we’ve been going through and been working closely with our head of marketing. And, you know, the the team, they run a lot of things by me, but now they’re doing great. And being on the board. Of course I get I get a lot of information about a lot of things and I’m able to involve myself where I feel valuable. And otherwise, I’m still just learning a lot from everyone else, you know, because it’s all new for me to write. It’s still the same journey. It’s not like I hopped companies, and some people who made with experiences from other companies and a whole set of different experiences and I’ve learned a whole set of different lessons. I find it interesting and fascinating keeps me learning keeps me under only to operate at that level.

Kara Goldin 29:57
Definitely and you guys are building out your Our own DSD network now? Correct. I think I was talking to your brother in an event, it sounds like you’ve decided to just really go ahead and build it out. Why did you decide to do that?

David Karr 30:13
Well, initially, a lot of the motivation was around not wanting to just be a company that had to like sell to a Coke or Pepsi, we get to a certain size and your options for distribution are kind of limited. Or you kind of do it yourself. And so we decided to kind of go for it ourselves. And we started with a pretty big footprint. And then we’ve since like, reduced it, because it was too much at once and too costly. And, and so we’ve kind of come down to like a happy medium where we’re starting in a few markets, where we can do it really well or the business. So we’re starting in California and New York and a few other states to just really understand how it works. And then from there, we can we can grow it, or try and get by probably the aspiration is to grow it at the right timing and the right phasing. Because there’s a lot of advantages to having your own distribution. In areas where you have, of course, a lot of sales and a lot of density. But we don’t have a lot of sales or a lot of density, it’s costly. So we’re always trying to like figure out that balance.

Kara Goldin 31:13
When I’m talking to David, by the way, I should say, for those listening that are not part of the beverage or the natural food industry. So direct store delivery is what we’re talking about all the trucks that you see across the country, a lot of people use distributors that have multiple products on those trucks. But what I’ve been really interested in is what they’re doing in terms of building out their own distribution. So it’s very, very cool. For sure. So best advice that you’ve ever received in this in this journey of, you know, twists and turns and and, you know, you’ve done an amazing job of navigating it, for sure. And and I’d love to hear if there’s if there’s one thing that stands out that somebody is has said to you?

David Karr 32:05
Well, there was a quote that I read a long time ago, and that I put above my desk when we were starting wacky. And it said, No, don’t ask yourself what the world needs. Do what makes you come alive. Because what world what the world needs are people who come alive. And I think that our brand mantras come to life, I didn’t even realize it till this very moment in connecting it with that quote, but yeah, just like I’ve always wanted people like, feel alive and, and share that feeling with others. Because I think like people who are switched on and alive naturally want to buy naturally want to do good in the world, and they want to be connected. And the more that people are connected with each other, the more they understand that the world is interconnected and interdependent, and the more that you actually think about the impact of your decisions, etc. So I think feeling alive is a good feeling. You love life. You want to be alive.

Kara Goldin 33:02
I love that. That’s so great. Well, thank you very much, David, for your time today. And thanks, everybody, for listening. We’ll have all the information of how to reach David in the show notes and also gwai ki and definitely pick up a can or any of their other products that they have out there. For sure. So thank you again, David.

David Karr 33:26
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed our time together.

Kara Goldin 33:29
Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would, please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit and of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my book on daunted which I share my journey, including founding and building hint. We are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And thanks everyone for listening. Have a great rest of the week, and 2023 and goodbye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book.com and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to know nominate an innovator to spotlight. Send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening