Adam Jones and Adam Ashton – Authors of The Sh*t They Never Taught You and Hosts of What You Will Learn Podcast

Episode 184

Thrilled to have Adam Jones and Adam Ashton on today as our guests! You may know them for interviewing amazing authors on their own podcast, What You Will Learn, but do you know their journey? How they got to do what they love doing each day? In our interview, we dive into their story including their view of traditional education and how their thirst for learning and love of books changed their lives and worldview. In addition, we discuss their newly launched book, The Sh*t They Never Taught You and talk about some of the best chapters in the book which compiles many of the interviews they have done getting to talk to incredible, inspiring people. The book is excellent and our interview even better! Join us and listen now on #TheKaraGoldinShow

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be, I want to just sort of make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked out knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control, control control. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Kara golden show. So join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone, its Kara golden from the Kara golden show. And I’m so excited to have my next guests here, Adam and Adam. That’s Adam squared over here. No, just kidding. Adam Ashton and Adam Jones, who many will know, as the host of the what you will learn podcast, which is an amazing, amazing podcast, if you have not listened to it, definitely go and sign up for it. But in addition, I was lucky enough to get a copy of their book, hold on, let me pick it up. So the SH, a star T, well, we’ll I’ll I’ll not swear in this, they can if they want to. I’m just kidding. They never taught you. And it is so so good. In fact, I’m going to be overly honest here that I have not had a chance to read your first book. And I just ordered it on Amazon because I loved this one so much. So I think you guys are and that’s big, because I’m a huge reader. And for me to actually go out of my way to go and, and order another book, especially from the same author is kind of a unique situation. So anyway, I’m very, very excited to introduce everybody to the world of Adam’s over here. So on the podcast, for those of you who are not familiar with it, they are just amazing interviewers providing so many insights from nonfiction books, introducing their listeners to just incredible authors along the way, but so much more. And in this book, there’s just so many amazing examples from questions that they’re asking, along the way from amazing people like Seth Godin, or Kevin Kelley from the Wired Magazine. Anyway, there’s so many along the way. And they’re just really, really, really, really, really, really great at this stuff. So, again, it was released in June, and rydia reveals in depth lessons from these interviews and more than anything, it just really inspired me and gave me thoughts on so many the those questions that I think about on a daily basis. So we’ll hear a lot more about that. But welcome, guys. Thanks so much. It was a great plug. Thank you so much for having this car. Yeah, absolutely. So tell me a little bit about. So how did you like where did you to grow up? Where did you meet? How did you guys get this connection?

Adam Jones 3:32
Well, we both met working at a pub together. It’s a real suburban, dirty old pub serve and Bs to the local barflies. So we’re both in our early 20s at that stage. After that, I went to go traveling. So we separated ways we didn’t really connect at that stage. But when we were both at university, I was sitting there with at the university pub with a beer in one hand and a book in the other. The book was how to win friends and influence people. In old AASHTO. He was in the corner of the pub as well. And he saw me there. And it turned out he was his favorite book, and most impactful book for him. So he came up to me and from there, we really connected on books at that stage, they both really transformed us in in a few different ways. And from there, we kept meeting up on a weekly basis. We spoke about the books, we were reading the projects we were undertaking the podcast we were listening to. And then we thought why don’t we just record our conversations at the very beginning. Didn’t think anyone would listen, which nobody did start, though very raw and very rough, sort of awful podcasts really listened to but we’re still put them up for people to just see where the journey sort of started. By that’s where it started in five or six years on now. 300 podcast episodes in both of us have stayed true to our goal of reading more than a book a week since we started the podcast. So over 300 books and a whole bunch of interviews through it. So it’s been a wonderful journey to be a part of

Kara Goldin 4:57
well and I was lucky enough to be on your podcast recently, a very, very exciting opportunity for sure. I absolutely loved it. So I just going back So did you, you both live in Australia? Did you grow up in Australia as well?

Adam Ashton 5:16
Yeah. Both from Australia. I was a son from a three year stint in Papua New Guinea have been in a ministry in Australia for most of my life.

Kara Goldin 5:25
Very cool. And how about you? Other Adam?

Adam Jones 5:27
Yeah, both of us. I’ve, I’ve been in Australia the whole time it did a bit of traveling. I’d spent a bit of time in Turkey studying University. so short, Cynthia. So we’re both out of shorts in overseas. But both you’re born and raised locally in Melbourne, here in Australia.

Kara Goldin 5:44
Now, did you guys think that you would, I can’t imagine that you were going to college thinking that you’d have your own podcast, but what did you think you were going to do when you grew up?

Adam Ashton 5:53
I think for me, I was I went to a school, there was heavy academic focus, it was all about working really hard, studying really hard. aceing all the tests, getting as high a score as possible. So that was I guess the game that I was playing. That was the the game that the goals that I was working towards was just getting as big a score is possible to get into the top of degrees, whether that’s, you know, law or medicine, or, for me, I studied physiotherapy, because I thought that was pretty close to medicine. But I could mix a bit of sport in there as well. Really, I wasn’t really thinking about it, I think I was just sort of going along with the herd. Just sort of like going with the flow, not actually ever stopping to pause and think about what I actually wanted to do. I was just saying, okay, work hard, work hard, work hard. Keep going, keep going, keep going. And it was when I really started to not enjoy physiotherapy. That’s the first time I really paused I guess after about 18 or 19 years of working hard. There was a first time I sort of pulled back and thought, Okay, well, what do I, what do I sort of actually want to do, and I was pretty lost. Because I sort of had goals of just like, this is what I thought I wanted to do. And this is what I was working towards. So I was I was kind of floating a bit I changed between uni courses, I changed between jobs. The grades that I was used to in high school, were not the grades that I was getting in university because I was I was floating a fair bit. And it wasn’t really until I discovered books, that I sort of was able to answer a lot of those questions that I was asking, you know, what do I want to do? Who do I want to become? And so I would read How to Win Friends and Influence People that sort of helped me get my first good real world corporate job. I read crush it by Gary Vaynerchuk that helped me start my first business. I read the rules of the game by Neil Strauss, which helped me get a girlfriend. And so it was sort of like all these these books was sort of like answering all the questions that I’d been struggling with.

Kara Goldin 7:40
And had you always been kind of reading books for? I don’t want to say the word help, but kind of for direction, I guess. I mean, do you feel like I mean, people always talk about different genres, right? And I mean, do you like Stephen King novels? Or I mean, is that ever been like? Are you a big reader? Are you a very specific genre that you really focus in on?

Adam Ashton 8:05
I’d say that I’d been a complete non reader. In fact, I hadn’t read anything. And I reckon that’s probably part of why it was so impactful, going from zero to like, all these great books, like throwing all these incredible ideas at me, I’d obviously read what I had to read in high school, but that probably turned me off reading things like Shakespeare and, and Charles Dickens and stuff like that really turned me off reading. So I put every book down. I didn’t pick a single book up for three or four years after high school. And then it was, it was only when I started like listening to podcasts where it seemed like every CEO, entrepreneur, billionaire politician, whoever it was, all the top, the top dogs who were on these podcasts would always mention this one book that opened their eyes or changed their life or whatever. And so I thought, well, if if these people are reading books and why on AI and that’s when I first started to pick up books again,

Kara Goldin 8:51
I love it. And how about you other Adam?

Adam Jones 8:54
My issue was that I didn’t actually have any goals. When I was 18 1920. I was a bit of a party animal. Huge weekends all the time to party drugs was just going on benders, I was still in university and just kind of scraping through and continuing down that path. It kind of scares me now to think about where I could have been right now if I didn’t come across my first book. That first book was it was called Alan Carr’s easy way to stop smoking. And at the time, I was a packet a smoker, along with everything. So you know, after reading what a 20 hour or even less than that 15 hours of reading $30 investment, the return on investment of something like that was what million dollars plus additional years lived. So after seeing what the return on investment of a book like that was, that’s really what changed everything for me and that Dawn’s bit of a self transformation which it’s probably going to be ongoing forever sort of thing now, but it was about a five year time period. I think this sort of turn the boat around a little bit, but it really just swapped the habit of Smoking for an equally an opposite powerful habit of reading. So since then I’ve been looking for a similar return on investments in books. And we’ve really found them. I think, just for example, one might be an obvious one might be negotiation. If someone’s a salaried employee at the moment, all it takes is just to read a couple of negotiation books before you go to the negotiation table. And that if you do a few simple steps, all of a sudden, you might actually make your five or $10,000 per year and then accumulate that over time, just from one book and some books is very clear what your return on investment are, some are more strategic about how to, to live your life and be more about steering the ship over longer term, sort of period. So I think, drawing up just just party and really car and then going forward, luckily, I’ve found books and, and goals have kind of changed. And we’re lucky now to be somewhat making a hobby slash business out of both of Sonic we both love and we’re passionate about which is, which is reading and cashing out together as mates. We do a few podcasts where we have a few drinks while doing it. And it’s just so much fun. So to be able to turn that into a business which were allowed, allowed to do in the 21st century. It’s a it’s a phenomenal thing.

Kara Goldin 11:17
I love it. You know, I think you’re touching on something, which is really interesting, and thinking about some of the interviews that you’ve done with Gretchen Rubin and, and Seth Godin, and Simon as as well. Have you interviewed Gary? it? No, we haven’t got that. Yeah, he’s one on the list, for sure. He’s awesome, for sure. But, you know, I think about these people. And I feel like they knew what their y was, right? I mean, Simon talks about this a lot. But they knew what their why was. And they they didn’t sit there and focus on I’m going to go write a book, because I’m going to go make a lot of money. I mean, maybe by the second or third one, they started to do that. But did you feel that when you’ve interviewed these people that they really felt like there was a message, and there was a bigger conversation that they wanted to get people dialed into thought process that they wanted to get across to people?

Adam Ashton 12:10
Yeah, I think you can, you can probably sniff out the ones who are doing it purely for personal gain, you know, financial gain or, or status or whatever that is, and you can, and it really shines through the people who are wanting to do it genuinely for, as you say, sharing a message or really, books can really change people’s people’s lives. I guess for us, that’s what it was, as well, we realized how much one or two or three books could ultimately change our lives for Jonesy, you get an extra 10 years out of life just from that one book. For me, it was a job in a business and a girlfriend for the for those handful of books. So we ultimately really just wanted to help other people tap into that as well, if we could give them a little taste, whether that was from our thoughts on the book, or whether it was from interviewing the author, if we could give people enough of a taste of what’s out there, then they can sort of tap into the books themselves, they can go ahead and read a couple of books and change their own lives as well.

Kara Goldin 13:04
I totally agree. So in your in your book that I have right here the shit they never taught you see there? I said it. So we got it out there. I was trying so hard. But I I I did it anyway. So you just talk about some of the questions that you ask people who is, um, I’m not going to, I promised you that I wasn’t going to put you on the spot. But who’s also I wouldn’t want say your favorite interview. But who are some of the what were what was a surprising interview that that you had that you just were mesmerized by kind of the messages that they were getting out there curious.

Adam Jones 13:54
I’m gonna go with Robert Greene wasn’t necessarily say, a full surprise. He’s our favorite author, right? He’s written laws of human nature, seduction, 48 Laws of Power. And he’s got a new book coming out soon, which shall we can have gotta have him on the show. Again, it was just an opportunity. You’re like to speak to a mentor you’ve got through books you’ve read, you spent 20 or 30 hours reading their books, and then all of a sudden you got him standing in front of you. And you can ask him really poignant and Shrike questions that it’s somewhat personal. So I did ask him a personal question cuz he talks a lot about developing the, like a dark side or a shadow and somewhat of assertiveness within your personality, because because a lot of the self help genre especially it kind of misses that part of life. And if it’s all a bit too positive, you might lose some of your assertiveness in the process of trying to transfer form yourself in in to just signing this just purely positive. Anyway, so I was I was experimenting with that at the time and I kind of told him a story what happened to me and I was fumbling around And I’ve just stuffed it all up. And his facial reaction was just like, somewhat disgusted with the way I did it. But that was just a really fun interview to have just to connect with someone, a mentor personally, and you can ask personal things, but still relevant to all the listeners who are all going through similar, similar journey as we are.

Kara Goldin 15:22
Yeah, definitely. A few years ago, I was able to meet staying. And I think that was kind of, for me, somebody that writes and somebody, he should, you should grab some of these musicians who are writing music to that it’s, you know, it’s it really is kind of like a book, as well. I mean, a lot of the copy that is lyrics that is put into songs as well. So there’s an idea, a spin off of your existing pod, right? What’s the most exciting thing is, uh, it’s he’s a pretty cool character, for sure. So, so one of the people that you talk about in in not only your book, but just I’ve heard you mention is Simon Sinek. So do you want to share a little bit more about that interview,

Adam Ashton 16:17
that was that was a great interview that was with sort of teed it up sort of january, february 2020. He was coming to Melbourne, he was coming to give a presentation. And we’d arranged through him and his team, that we were going to go to this event, we’re going to sit down with him face to face and chat to him do a podcast interview in person, which we’re super excited for. Obviously, he’s got like, what the third biggest TED talk of all time, massive books, three or four of his books that we read, and we featured on the podcast. So we were super excited for it. And then I think everyone knows what happened about the middle of March in 2020, that no longer Simon was coming to Melbourne anymore, he were all stuck at home for for a fair bit of time. So thankfully, we’re able to do it virtually. So we were able to keep that sort of same time slot, the only thing that time slot was a little bit different this time, because the time it was going to be in Melbourne, versus the time it was going to be in the US meant we’re up at 3am. to, to chat to Simon. But it was just it was really, I think just the timing was just so fantastic. Like his book, The Infinite game, it’s all about thinking about the long term, you know, not not just thinking about the hour to hour, the day to day, the week to week, but thinking about the years, or the decades or the generations. And so whilst there was obviously the the worldwide pandemic that was forcing everybody into short term, thinking into panic, buying toilet paper at the supermarket, into all of these into all of these short term problems, we’re able to just sort of like, take a pause and take a look at the longer term. So whilst it was a extremely uncertain and uncomfortable and really unprecedented situation for everybody who living today, he was able to just pull back and say, Well, look, there is light at the end of the tunnel, you know, things are gonna change, things always change, this is obviously going to be a very big and very rapid change. But ultimately, everyone’s going to work it out.

Kara Goldin 18:15
Definitely. So your book was really, I guess, in response to the question, what is the best lesson that you’ve come across? And there’s so many good ones in here, too. So you’ve given me so many ideas for more of my lessons, because I always have a hard time with that one in particular, because when people ask me that question, but I think, you know, some of the ones that that really struck me are, you know, really around, there was one actually in particular, I’m looking at what chapter it was from chapter 90. Yes, that’s right, you guys, 90 catheter, don’t let it scare you on how we think. So do you want to just share a little bit more about that? If you remember that one in particular, not to put you on the spot, because you can’t remember everything a lot,

Adam Jones 19:11
a lot of times, Daniel can’t find a man. Well, the book will the book. So what we do is we’ve got 150 chapters, yeah, 115 chapters where they’re all inspired by an individual book. So what we’ve done is we’ve really summarized it into what the Nate’s no information is, and then added a bit of our personal personal stories or kind of pop culture, anecdotes as a story and then keeping you the lessons from the original book and getting the original intent. So yeah, this one how we think it was inspired by Daniel Kahneman Thinking Fast and Slow. We were lucky to

Kara Goldin 19:47
have, by the way. It’s one of my favorites. Yeah.

Adam Jones 19:52
Well, he really just pioneered behavioral economics. We spoke to him a little while ago. He’s still think he’s 88 89 or 90. So just as a side note, it’s really exciting. To see someone who’s still still having a go at 90 years old or something, it means our careers that don’t have to be 40 or 50 years, we could probably go in, like Daniel did for 70 or 80 years. Anyway, that that book, I think it’s got a lot of heuristics and biases that we all share, were entirely irrational. So by understanding that the different ways were irrational we can do, putting different things in place really, really buffers against the issues that come from that will give you one example is he talks about the planning fallacy. So every time you launch a new project, you think you know what’s involved, you think it’s gonna take six months, like writing a book. But when there’s more unknown unknowns, when you’re doing something totally new, a project that you haven’t done before, then you’re always going to be estimating on the downside, because you don’t know what’s, what the unknown unknowns are. So there’s two solutions for that proposes number one, you’re getting the outside view. So if you’re about to write a book, don’t just estimate how long it’s going to take. You can call up a different author and ask them what it’s going to how long it’s going to take. And they’ll they’ll give you a more direct answer. Another way of doing it is by just slapping an extra 30% prediction on just as a rule of thumb heuristic, so planning fallacy is one of many. He’s also talks about anchoring, which has got negotiation implications. The sunk cost fallacy again, which is when you should leave and wrap up a project that you’ve already finished and not worry about the sunk cost that you’ve already invested and move on to something you can do. So loads of heuristics and biases that we’ve got now, Brian, and Scott Adams sitting at Scott Adams, who is another great thinker, we like he says, the more heuristics and biases you learn, it’s just the more income essentially, you can get in the long term, because you’re just going to save yourself a lot of pain by learning it all up front.

Kara Goldin 22:03
Yeah, it’s so true. And it helps you think about other audiences too, and how to really speak to those audiences, even if they’re a little bit different than you. So I totally agree with that. And I think that another one that actually happened to be in that same chapter is Michael lewis’s Moneyball, which is not only one of my favorite books, but one of my favorite movies and in the Bay Area as well talking about the Oakland A’s and kind of what happened there. But the whole halo effect, which I think is also such a huge lesson, and I love that you guys highlighted that as well. So what what did you remember from that interview in particular?

Adam Ashton 22:46
Yeah, the the halo effect is a is an incredible one. It’s just that idea that like, you know, if someone’s, if you think of someone wearing a halo, obviously, you just look at that person and think that there must be some kind of incredible person they’re assigned to, they’re an angel, there’s something like that, and, and we can take our own halos, and obviously might not be a circle around our head. But it could be, you know, public speaking, is a great Halo where somebody sees a great public speaker, and they just assume, well, if they’re a good public speaker, they must be pretty competent, they must be pretty good at their job, that must be pretty smart. They must always do their projects on time. So like, from all the way from just seeing somebody confidently speaking to a group of people, we’ve just assumed that there’s there’s all these other good things about them as well. Unfortunately, it probably works the other way as well, if you if you see somebody who’s unshaven and a bit smelly, then from that one from that one small piece of information about themselves, you assume, okay, they’re not keeping themselves clean, and together. They’re not. They mustn’t be looking after their health, they’re probably eating junk food all the time, they probably drink and diet cokes all the time, and not hit water.

Kara Goldin 23:56

Adam Ashton 23:57
So there’s all these things from this one small piece of information that we assume about people as well. So those Halo effects that can really work for you, or you can really work. They can really work against you if you’re not careful.

Kara Goldin 24:09
Yeah, I feel like so often, I mean, just reading through this book, too. And again, this this is probably a different podcast altogether. But it kind of speaks to what we learn and what we think is right. I mean, we go through, you talked about school and education, and you know how I always talk about it in the corporate ladder, how I thought that the goal was to go to school, get a job, become a manager, become a director, become a VP, maybe a CEO, and then you’ve hit like, the kingdom. Right? That’s it. And yet, there are many people I know who are sitting in the C suite who are quite unhappy and miserable and they’re no longer learning anymore. They’re just kind of on the They’re on the wheel, right? And they just keep going around and round in circles. And so a lot of what you and I talked about and and my interview on your podcast about my book, and probably what gets me so excited is that the My book is not just for entrepreneurs and people who are thinking about starting a business, but also to get out of sort of the pattern of what they thought was supposed to be and and especially if you’ve already made that you’ve already hit the highest levels, why not go out and do something new and go out and learn. But I think that that’s what I kept thinking about, like, why aren’t more schools teaching these things that are in these books? Right? I just, I mean, obviously, you get to have these people on campus, maybe talking about maybe the better campuses that are out there, but now they’re on podcasts like yours, which is amazing. But it’s kind of depressing that there is that there aren’t more people teaching, maybe you guys should start your own class. Maybe start your own school.

Adam Jones 26:07
Let’s do it a show. What do you reckon might be

Kara Goldin 26:10
the next project? Right? Yeah, we could gather?

Adam Jones 26:15
Yeah, well, that’s exactly when probably hit us when may not show we’re University, we were like slaving away through the complex calculations from a structural engineering and spent days and days learning how to do something complex, which turns out, you’re never going to use ever. And then at the same time, you’re reading a book, like How to Win Friends and Influence People, or how to handle yourself at a job interview or something like that. So the most critical things, life situations and events that pop up, you’re not really prepared for it. Oh, so 99%, probably, of what we learn is wasted. Whereas the 1%, not much really gets focused on. And in growing up, we’ve got not much control over over who we learned from life, we call the circle of they you can learn from your parents, your school teachers, you might have your local soccer coach, or whatever it might be, and you can’t do anything about that. But we can expand the circle of value. And that’s really the only only time you invite new mentors into your your circle to have those lightbulb moments to realize there’s a different path available to you, there’s actually hundreds of paths. There’s a clock ticking as well. So number one, you know becoming aware of the different ways you can live your life to, to the way you want to do it. And number two, if you don’t want to realize this, at the very end, it’s tragic to think that the people you’re talking about then might be on this hamster wheel for such a long time. And it might take a burnout or it might take a moment at the very end of their career to realize like shit, what, what have I been doing this whole time? So yeah, books, we can expand our circle of they have those lightbulb moments realize what the different paths are out there. And obviously, with a bit of courage, if you get undaunted to actually go for it, then you can live a totally different life.

Kara Goldin 28:09
Do you think listening to books versus reading books? What What is your preference?

Adam Ashton 28:16
Definitely reading, listening is great. And I can’t listen to podcasts all the time I haven’t listened to I’ve got an audible subscription. So I listened to probably one a quarter of the books I listened to on Audible. But I do it in a weird way I listen on like 3.5x and I read at the same time. I feel like if I was just listening it I don’t know, it just doesn’t stick for me as well. I feel like like physically holding that book in, in my hands. And like the eyes just moving across the page, using a bit of a using a pencil to make some notes and make some highlights and stuff like that. I feel like that’s, for me personally, that’s the way to to make it stick if it’s if it’s just audio or if it’s even if it’s like a digital like reading a PDF or a Kindle. It doesn’t seek for me either.

Adam Jones 28:58
I say, I’ve heard our shows 3.5x and it sounds like chipmunks doing a rap battle or something. There’s no way I can understand what the hell they’re saying. So 3.5 it’s only for it’s not fair. But you got to do it. You got to build up to it. Yeah.

Kara Goldin 29:15
So interesting. Do you know, this company called speechify? He doesn’t have a book out yet. But I actually interviewed him on my podcast, and he happened to actually grow up in my, my town that I live in. And so I was familiar with it, but he has dyslexia. And so what he figured out was that if he actually listened to everything versus actually read it, and so I mean, he does it on like 5.0 I can’t even understand why he’s like playing it. Yeah, it’s crazy. But you know, he went to brown and like, had gone to Exeter I mean that he’s got an incredible experience and anyway, but he’s got Lots he should write a book and or at least loosen up a book. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think it really is, you know, he’s got an amazing story that’s helping lots of people. Because I think there are people that have a really hard time they find it daunting to actually read a book and to be able to listen, it enables them to be able to do it. But anyway, that’s another podcast. But so what lessons from, from some of these interviews that you did? Did you apply to either building your podcast or writing your book?

Adam Ashton 30:34
Well, I’ve got one that we, when we interviewed you, that was on the list of things to talk about, but we didn’t quite get there. We had so much, so many other great things to talk about, let me just say what, Chapter 62. And I had to cheat because I don’t even remember, half the stuff that’s in the book. But chapter 62 is, is about first to mind. It’s about marketing. It’s about the 22 immutable laws of marketing by our raise, and jack trout. And they talked about the idea that like, everybody remembers that the first man on the moon, everybody remembers that. The first, you know, female, self made billionaire, like the first of anything, is always extremely memorable. And so they says, It’s, they say, it’s better to be first than to be better. So in, in business, and in marketing, you shouldn’t be looking for like, okay, what’s, what’s a product out there that I can beat and that I can be better than they say, like, what’s a product that you can, what’s a, what’s a category that you can create, so that you can be first in? So obviously, if we, if we think back to your story, there was, obviously there was already a beverage market, you know, there was Coke and Pepsi, there was already bottled water. If you go, then if you keep drilling down even further, I’m sure there was already flavored water. But then you went to the next one, where you were the first in the category of the unsweetened, you know, flavored water, that you’ve, you’ve created this category within a category, and then you can be the first in it. So they say that it’s much better, rather than just saying, Okay, I’m going to try and be Coke, I’m going to make a new Cola, and I’m going to make the best color in the whole world. It’s, I don’t think anybody can knock off coke at this point, it’s going to be almost impossible, you’d have to be like, like 1000 times better than coke to knock off coke. But if you can create a new category where you can be the first in, that’s a much better approach to marketing and to creating a new product than just trying to be the best.

Kara Goldin 32:18
Yeah, it’s interesting. I mean, I the one thing that I would say is that, like I prior to launching hint, I worked for a company called America Online. And when I, when they acquired my little startup that what I was a part of, I mean, they were easily number three, America Online, they were an online service, there was companies called prodigy and compuserve, that we’re out there. And I think in many ways, it was to their benefit to be better. Right? They might, they might not have been first, but they were better. Right. And they solved all the problems that, you know, compuserve and prodigy just said, Oh, it’s good enough, because we have lots of subscribers that are out here. And I think like that’s the problem, it You definitely gain awareness. But I think you run the you run the risk of having people come in behind you that basically are doing all the things that you didn’t do. So, but on the other hand, when you have an opportunity when other people come in to, I talked about it, and in my book to actually expand the category, expand the awareness of the category. And you’ll, you know, it is great to be first but often I think, you know, it’s it’s harder to be first in many, many ways. Because you have to get the consumer to catch up to where you’re at. But yeah, it’s it’s it’s a it’s an interesting one, one for sure. So what’s a book that everyone based on all your books, you mentioned a couple of them, but what do you think is a book everyone should read? Besides undaunted, of course, I mean, I’m sure that was like on your time. No, I’m just kidding, huh?

Adam Jones 34:10
Well, we’ve got nine different categories in our book over different spaces. So I think the one that covers everyone, because, yes, you know, most people are interested in business. But, you know, everyone if they actually just had a few different habits into their life, and things would change so safe the first book you’ve ever read. I’d go with a very cliche book in the self help genre, but it’s really a powerful book Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. The seven different habits there. I mean, number one, being proactive. Number two, I think he’s, she knows off the hotline. Yeah. First things first, and just these simple habits very start. I think if you take them on, it’s going to really give you the opportunity to actually forge a new path and take a new direction. So That’s number one, if you’ve never read a book, but some people have read 100 books, and it’s probably gonna be a bit boring for them. Let’s say if you’re up to your 100th book and you haven’t read yet, I’d go with laws of human nature by Robert Greene, because he delves really deep into you into everyone’s psyche. And reveals party personality that you probably aren’t aware of until you write a book that says revealing and insightful is that, so with that you can change it and integrate new parts into your personality as well. And yeah, different different thing I’d say.

Kara Goldin 35:34
I love it. So one, you mentioned two books by male authors, what I thought was so interesting when I launched a book, and, and, you know, definitely it was categorized into a couple different places business and self help was that there weren’t as many women that were writing business books, which I thought was, again, that wasn’t my purpose. I didn’t show up to say that I was like, but I think it’s interesting because you naturally, and I know you interview women, I’m not jumping all over your case or anything like it. Like it’s really interesting that I think a lot of the top books that are out there, there are good books, but you know, Sheryl Sandberg wrote lean in and there’s there’s books that are really, definitely bring sort of thought leadership out there and, and in some ways, but it’s tough. I mean, it’s tough to find really books that kind of bring that business, thought into it to that they’re not coaching books, they’re more people who are actual have led companies. Again, there are some out there, but a lot of it’s it’s tougher to find.

Adam Jones 36:46
Yeah, it’s also I think, a lot of the it was a male dominated kind of industry, especially up before 95. On, you know, before that period, so a lot of the books from back then, still around today, like the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And I think there’s a lot, so many great female authors in the last five or 10 years, like you mentioned, for an A Pran Susan Cain, Angela Duckworth, you’re all in the same genre. And another one direction correction, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Probably, after seven habits would say, Carol Dweck, mindset as well. So yeah, there’s absolutely plenty out there. It is a it is currently a male dominated industry, perhaps because previously, it was. Yeah, a lot of the legacy books, especially today, there’s a lot more great female authors coming through.

Kara Goldin 37:43
Yeah, I hope so. And frankly, I also hope just because you can go and publish a book, self publish a book, too, I think that there are some, sometimes you have to search for some of those books to in order to find them. But I, I believe that the barriers to actually, you know, writing a book is, is hopefully last too, especially if you’ve got a social media platform to get it out there too. So very, very, lots to think about on that, too. So very excited to have you guys on and as I said, this book is so good. Everybody needs to go in and order it. So I got mine off of Amazon. That was terrific. And very, very fast and easy to get it. And like we talked about I mean, there’s, there’s it’s coming out on Audible. You said soon.

Adam Ashton 38:38
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it’s coming on Audible very soon, we’ve got a few other audio platforms, as well as it’s 170,000 words, at 700 pages, you don’t have to read the whole lot. We say that if you if you can just pick the sort of 10 of the 32 different lessons that most interests you then then you get then you get a big tick and you can give yourself a pat on the back. But for us it was it was also weeks of weeks of recording the audio book as well. We got more than more than a little bit of a sore throat after that.

Kara Goldin 39:07
I can only imagine Luckily, there’s two of you so you guys could split it because I it took me six days to record mine and and mine was my book was, I guess, a third of yours. So not, not half but it was it was definitely a while so it must have taken you guys you know few weeks to do it. is amazing. And like I said they’ve got an amazing podcast, definitely check it out. And where can people find you?

Adam Ashton 39:40
Yeah, the web, the websites, what you will is the home of the podcast and all the book reviews and stuff that we’ve done and podcast episodes and interviews with authors plus the shit they never taught you calm as well as sort of that the home of the book as well whether whether you want to buy the physical book or the audiobook, everything’s there.

Kara Goldin 40:02
Awesome. So Adam Ashton and Adam Jones, thank you so much for coming on today really, really enjoyed this. And thanks everybody for listening. We’re here every Monday and Wednesday on the Kara golden show meeting with incredible people like Adam and Adam, founders and entrepreneurs who were talking about so many of their lessons were on Apple and Spotify and other favorite platforms out there. So definitely come and have a listen. And if you like this podcast, definitely give it five stars and also come and reach out and say hi to me on social. I’m on all social platforms at Kara golden with an AI and thanks everyone have a great week. before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book calm and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight? send me a tweet at Kara golden and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara golden golden thanks for listening