Aleen Dreksler: Co-Founder & CEO of Betches Media

Episode 278

Aleen Dreksler, Co-Founder and CEO of Betches, is a true inspiration and has an incredible story to tell.  Her brand Betches was created and founded with her childhood friends and co-founders, Jordana Abraham and Samantha Sage. And while still in college at Cornell! This multi-platform media and entertainment company aimed towards millennial women has a growing community and now reaches over 43 Million people per month!   The brand is great!  This story is very sweet!  The possibilities are endless as Betches looks to their future including recently launching an alcoholic drink. So many lessons shared by Aleen as she takes us through her journey. You are going to love this episode!  Listen and learn.  This episode will leave you wanting to call a friend or two and start a company too! On this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow.

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be you just want to make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. It’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. And I’m so so thrilled to have my next guest here we have Aleen Dreksler, who is the co founder and CEO of betches media. And she is, as I said, the co founder and CEO of betches media, but there are so many incredible things for us all to learn from her and hear a little bit more of the backstory, I am entertained in my feed constantly, by the content that I see on batches. They make me smile and laugh. And you know, it’s truly an entertainment company, and one that is geared towards millennial women. But I would just like to say that I’m not a millennial, and I love what you’re doing. And I think that just the backstory of how you guys got started. I’ll let you share a little bit more about it. But your co founders Jordanna Abraham and Samantha sage were college friends at Cornell, I guess you guys knew each other even before that, which is so so cool. And just to give you guys an idea, if you have never heard of betches they boast an audience of over 48 million people are watching and seeing exactly all of the great, great content that they are developing. So it’s very, very cool. And Ilene also hosts the popular betches podcast as well as diet starts tomorrow. So you should definitely give a listen to those two. So welcome.

Aleen Dreksler 2:16
Thank you. What an intro. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Kara Goldin 2:21
Totally, really excited to have you here. So let’s start at the beginning. I always like to get a glimpse into who you are. And in particular, who were you as a kid? Were you? The sassy one, the creative one, the funny one? Where did you think that you would land eventually in life?

Aleen Dreksler 2:42
Wow, okay, we’re going real far back. It was definitely a funny one. Yeah, I think I thought it was funny. My parents laughed at my jokes. Yeah, I was definitely was social, love to have fun with my friends. But I also really, really cared about school. Maybe I burnt out a little too early. But I definitely like cared about my grades. And just I was very ambitious. But early on, I definitely cared about the balance of, you know, having fun with my friends and having a social life, even as a child, but also making time to work really hard in school because, you know, I, I wanted to be a doctor. I went to school all the way to graduated, pre med. But I’m not doing that. And as you all heard from that introduction,

Kara Goldin 3:34
it’s a fun story. So let’s bring in your co founders here. So Jordanna and Samantha so you guys knew each other as kids.

Aleen Dreksler 3:42
Yeah, yeah, we I met Jordanna and our fifth grade graduation. So we’ve been friends for a very long time, Sammy, she and I lived around the corner from each other. So also, we’ve been friends since early middle school since we were children really. And we all went to college together. A lot of people from my high school happened to go to Cornell. I don’t know why they do it because it was like at the time, like a feeder type of school. And we didn’t really set out when none of us were business majors. We didn’t really think that we were going to start a business. We definitely didn’t think that we were going to do it together. Like that was not the plan. But we live together our senior year of college. In an apartment, we are all like the three of us were very have like a creative spirit. We always thought about like, oh, what can we write we wanted to write a show together. We just like felt very inspired by at the time there was like this really intense bro culture going on. This is 2011 and social media was really just like Facebook, and Twitter. And like people there were blogs, you know, like in terms of just like the internet and what people were sort of doing creatively If there was like, serious bro culture, and we were really inspired by, like the female comedians in the space, like there was, you know, Tina Fey and Amy Poehler, the mean girls, Mindy Kaling, Chelsea Handler, and we were like, we’re funny, like, you know, nobody’s doing this on the in like the digital world, like, let’s start a blog, like, we’ll do it anonymously, we’ll get jobs Oh, no, no one will have known that it was us. But back then the mindset was like, let’s sort of talk about the behaviors of millennial women or people we knew in this kind of very satirical, self deprecating, we were making fun of ourselves this very, like, observational way. And it went viral. And it went viral, not because of like an algorithm, but because like, really, people were truly sharing with their friends being like, oh, my god, are you talking about me is this, you, this is my best friend writing about me, you know, my life. We didn’t know that, like, we were sort of writing about like the, you know, the mindset and the behaviors of young women. And that’s kind of where it was born. And it was like very much born in like, in humor, and comedy, and just sort of having fun. It started in creativity, not really, like it wasn’t business forward. And the business came after.

Kara Goldin 6:15
So you started as a blog. So how did that then transform and to actually take it online and to video and much more.

Aleen Dreksler 6:24
So it started as a blog. Because at the time, we didn’t really know how to, we didn’t have the ambitions of making into a business. We were just like, oh, wow, this is, this has some legs, like people really like it. And we have something on our hands, we don’t really know what it is. We don’t know what the future is, let’s just like continue to run with it. And like I said, at the time, we were seniors in college. So we were graduating in the summer after college. You know, none of us had jobs, I wanted to go to med school, but I had this something in me that was like, I don’t want to go to med school right away. And I was like, Well, I have this to work with, with my friends. And we all live near each other. So we can live logistically at home. I mean, logistically do this together. It’s not like one person lived across the country. And we had the advice to like continue to work on the blog consistently, like write something every day. And another piece of advice was that maybe you should turn this into, like, think about writing a book or to like really solidify the IP from this blog, like do something more significant than just kind of write on a blog. And so we did do that. And we’ve written three books since then. And slow and steady, we kind of went, our business decisions came from understanding kind of the landscape, as we know it as users, and consumers of media. So like when we felt like we heard about, like, this Instagram thing we’re like, seems weird, but I feel like people are going to use it. So we just like snatch the name batches. And we started posting and like just being like, again, like observers, like really being open minded, understand, like trying to figure out how everybody else is using it and sort of applying that to how can we use it as a business. And really first and foremost, like content creators, because that’s what we were. And so we were just trying to apply that same mindset from blogs to Instagram and figuring out what memes were and did a lot of that. And we launched in 2015. We launched in EECOM shop. So we started shop betches. As you know, today, before that, we had some iterations of EECOM. But in 2015, we launched the one that out now, and it’s been growing ever since. And we slow and steady kind of figured out wow, like really needed to monetize this thing, from a content perspective in terms of advertising, and we found salespeople help us. And since the beginning, and to this day, we’ve never really we’ve never raised any money. We still own our business 100%, the three of us, we don’t have any outside investors. And it’s been 11 years now, since we’ve had this business. And we’ve grown it since then, like from what was just a blog into a really a large media company. We have almost 50 employees. We have a very large social media presence with 13 million followers just in not just our main ventures account, but we have we’ve created these sort of verticals under the betches umbrella of these communities that are based on like the life stages or the interests of young women so whether you follow Bravo we have like a whole Bravo world Bravo by betches whether you’re a new mom, or not new mom or your mom, we have betches moms that we’ve launched. In the last year we have betches brides so it’s really like a place to come and sort of get real about life. Our thing is really funny, honest and unfiltered is our positioning in the media space. We’ve also launched our own original Podcast Network. Because again, it was one of those things where like, people seem to be liking podcasts, you know, I feel like this might be a great medium for the betches voice because it gives you know, the full, it’s not just a meme where you don’t really get the context of like, can’t like be as funny as you can in right as you are in writing podcasts you can speak. And so we started podcast and just continue to evolve the company and grow. And here we are, I know that was like a long spiel. But

Kara Goldin 10:37
no, no, I love I love it. I’ve been following your brand for a while and you’re talking about all the different platforms, and how do you stay true to your brand, but then, how Twitter for example, is different than Instagram is different than Tik Tok. And obviously, there’s some that the audiences are using video more than others, I mean, Instagram and Tiktok, for example, but I’m so curious what advice you’d give to people starting to look at that, you know, as across all these platforms? And are there any platforms that you just say, we’re not going there? That is just someone else’s world. And that is not what we’re going to be doing? For example, Twitter, you know, is probably less video, but then I met other people who think, oh, no, there’s definitely a video audience. I’m just curious how you guys look at that, like, as you’re growing the brand, I mean, there’s natural places where you’ve got millennial women who are on Instagram, and are on Tik Tok. But then I would imagine, you’d also go into certain places where you start to figure out that you can actually grow your audience into new segments that are just finding you. And that’s pretty exciting thing.

Aleen Dreksler 11:56
Yeah, absolutely. We definitely think audience first hit like, like you were saying, like, where’s our audience? And how are they using these platforms? It’s not just like, do they exist? But like, what are they using these platforms for? And like, would we make sense here? Like, would they want to meet us on this platform? Like, would we add any value to their lives on this platform creating content? Or is this not somewhere they want to meet us? Like, that’s fine, too. Yeah. It’s really just like understanding in terms of advice, like understanding, like, your value, add, and like your place in a person or your audiences or your consumers life. And showing up there. So for us, Twitter is a great place to like write, you know, some jokes and commentary for sure. But from a revenue perspective, there is not really a lot for us to be also like making money on Twitter. So we’re there, we’re there just for like the sake of just entertainment. But for us, like we’re a business, we need to make money. And there’s more monetization opportunities on other platforms. So that’s kind of how we prioritize which platform. But in terms of how we show up, it’s, it’s thinking about, like, what kind of content does well, on that platform, like, reading videos for Instagram is like different than creating a video for tic toc. And just knowing that you’re ahead of the game, figuring out what the difference is for your audience is like the next step. And then if like, again, you are a media company, or you’re making depends on how revenue like what your revenue pursuit is, I guess what the means to how you’re making money. But thinking about? Where would it make sense for you from a revenue perspective? Where do you have potential to, to make money? And where do you have potential to grow your audience?

Kara Goldin 13:50
So when you guys decided to go and start this company, what was kind of the first thing? I mean, you mentioned starting a blog. But did you guys write a business plan? I mean, are you guys going to a local coffee shop or grabbing beers and starting to think about it, we’re gonna go do this business and make it work? And I mean, what was kind of the first the early moments of actually starting to think, Okay, let’s go do this and see what happens.

Aleen Dreksler 14:18
The early moments. I mean, we were in the beginning, we didn’t write a business plan, because we didn’t know what that was. And we didn’t know. Like, we kind of wanted to be like, let’s just, you know, do stuff like it was just sort of like create, we were very much approaching with a creative mindset rather than like a, like a business mindset, because that’s kind of the way that we thought we were also just like out of college, and very much living in the moment rather than thinking, you know, 510 years ahead. In the very beginning. I’m not at all saying that that was what it was like, after that. But in the beginning, the early moments were like, the thing that matters is like, let’s just write really really quality content, something that will make people laugh, something that will make people share. And let’s do it consistently. And that was really just like the plan in the beginning. And let’s see if we can continue to catch on cat like if this will continue to catch on, or is this like just, you know, a fluke, like, will people stop caring about us next year? And then like, do I have to go, we find a real job. And it turned out like, the more that we were consistent, the more that we really cared about, like everywhere, like they cared about the quality, the more people kept sharing, and the more engagement we had, and the more we were growing. So then we were like, Okay, it’s time to like, really turn this into a business. How do you make money because businesses make money? So how do you make money, and it was just figuring that like, kind of step by step. And having in the, at the top of our mind, like the vision was really quality, entertaining content for young women. That was like very real. We never since the beginning, the voice was really important. We never wanted to feel like it was a business or something very corporate, like the way in which we were communicating with our audience, it had to always feel like friends speaking with friends. And that’s, that was like, at the core of the content we were creating. And it also we cared about quality. We never, we really hated like clickbait stuff, and just, you know, getting a click for the sake of, you know, a click, we wanted, we didn’t understand that, actually, we were like, but how do you keep that part? Who is that person who’s clicking? I don’t, why am I paying for that person to click, like, I’d rather someone share, and it’d be a real quality audience member who comes back and reads again, like, that’s what the way that we were thinking about audience growth at the time. And, you know, obviously, over time that changes as you grow. And the Internet has evolved, like seven times over since then. But yeah, that’s how we were kind of thinking about in the beginning.

Kara Goldin 16:57
I’m so curious, as you were building the company, did you think that you had to go out and find experienced people who had built a network? What was your experience with those people? And I asked, because when I was building hint, I had actually been in media for years prior to having this idea to start hint. But I assumed that I had to go find somebody who worked at Coke or Pepsi, because I had no idea what I was doing. And when I finally figured out that I could read a lot, I could go on Google, I could cold call people to start to figure stuff out along the way that, to some extent, experienced people were actually putting up walls in front of me, saying that I couldn’t do things. So you can’t do it that way. And I feel like you guys have broken down a lot of walls. But I’m so curious, when you have experienced people that are sitting alongside you. And you’re young, right? You’re inexperienced and their mind, oh, we’re going to tell you the way and did you find like they would ask for permission versus like, just going out and trying and trying to pave new ways?

Aleen Dreksler 18:06
Yeah, I think that makes sense. And also like, that comes with some, like, you know, they say, or, it’s a smart way to think is like, find people that compliment like your weaknesses. So like, if you know that you’re not strong in a certain area of business, find someone to help you in that area. But at the same time, it depends, like where that like what your drive is for that? Is it? Do you really not think that you’re good at it? Or is it just self doubt? Like you don’t not sure that you can figure it out yourself? So like, I think, for us, sometimes it was like, oh, maybe people know better than us. In certain areas, we’re not business. Like we’re we don’t have this experience in business. But then, you know, we’ve had some help along the way in terms of like, either advisors or just, you know, in certain areas. And over that course of time, I definitely know what you’re talking about. But over that course of time of working with different people with different skill sets, you sort of learn what you actually are really good at, and what actually you do need. And like that self doubt starts to really go out the window, and you start to trust yourself more. And you say, like I can, there are things that I can figure out. There are things there. There is advice I can get from other people. But again, it’s just advice. I don’t have to take it. And like the more advice you get, you can sort of like take it all in and just that’s what makes an entrepreneur is that like you are a leader that’s like that’s what you’re the one making the decision at the end you’re not having someone telling you what to do. With the exception of like, I would say finance and like taxes and accounting like that I very much leave to like experts in the matter. That’s not something I’m not even I’m even trying to figure out because I don’t want to get in trouble. So that’s absolutely someone I like You know, we’ve had our CPA for 11 years and you know, someone you can like trust in that area. But I very much know what you’re talking about. And it comes with, I think experience in like working with people trying in different ways of working with people to learn that either you can figure it out, or you actually need

Kara Goldin 20:21
help. I can only imagine in those first couple of years, I mean, here you are one of the first digitally native media companies not only founded but also led by women, you’re going after this millennial audience, you’re going on platforms that many of those experienced people hadn’t had experience on yet, you had been sort of, you know, either on those platforms, or you just sort of got them, right, probably quicker than the other. So I feel like it’s exactly what you were saying that I think, you know, your own insecurities come up, because you don’t have experience. And what I’m always telling entrepreneurs is that, you know, the key thing they that you have to sort of get your arms around is the fact that you don’t need to hurry. Right, you can actually go and figure stuff out along the way, especially if it’s unique and different. And I think to some extent, not having experience like people, they find it endearing, to some extent that you’re going out and doing something pretty big, and especially when you’re getting traction, and they want to support the underdog. So I bet those early years were were certainly interesting,

Aleen Dreksler 21:31
right? And like, it’s about learning about yourself too. And like what you are good at, too. So like I said earlier, when we were launching our E comm platform, when we were launching our shop site, and selling merch, we thought that we didn’t know what our audience would buy, or we didn’t know how to make designs or what would look good. And we hired a company to sort of help us just create all of that, and we just let them lead. And then in that process, we realized like, I don’t, I don’t know if I like this, but should I not speak up because they know better. So maybe let them keep up at 10. And it kept going like that. And in the end, when we launched that we didn’t even want to promote it because we’re like, I don’t really promote this doesn’t for our audience. And that’s when it clicked that like, actually the like, we should be only putting out things that we would want to promote. That doesn’t even make any sense. And like why wouldn’t we trust our gut, it is our company. You know, like maybe that would work for a different company for a different audience shorts, not bad, but it’s not ours. It doesn’t like match our brand. And so that was a really big lesson for us. I guess it wasn’t a failure. But it was a big lesson. We closed down that like ECAM operation. We revamped it thought about a lot of lessons that I learned and like launched shot batches on our own sort of very scrappy, like I I built the website, John Shopify, I designed all the things I learned how to use Photoshop, and partnered with an amazing print shop, local print shop. And it went crazy. And that’s because again, like we you trust your gut. I think that was that was really important when working with other people’s trusting your gut, knowing your audience, and just yeah, like going with that intuition. How do you

Kara Goldin 23:24
think all of the issues that in particular women are dealing with right now and obviously Roe versus Wade, and all of the stuff going on around? Matt, how do you guys think about that, as you’re developing content? I mean, that’s just one example. But obviously, and even the last few years, I mean, the pandemic and, you know, women, I don’t think that they left the workforce by choice. I mean, I, you know, like having to leave because they were making less money. I mean, it’s all of those kinds of things. Do you think about that, like when you guys are developing content? Oh,

Aleen Dreksler 23:59
absolutely. We have a whole vertical called the Vetches. Sup, which is about news and activism. And we make sure that we cover all those types of topics. And we’re talking about it and you know, like, you have to create content with the audience in mind and thinking about like, Okay, if this is what the audience, our selves included, are going through, you can’t just ignore issues. So like, absolutely. And it’s all all about the way in which you communicate that content. You have to be like, respectful of like, people’s feelings, emotions, what people are going through, and just navigate smartly, I guess and yeah, so we definitely don’t skirt around issues, but at the same time, we are an entertainment company. So again, knowing where the value add is firm, for our audience if they come to us to laugh, and to shed light on certain issues. We choose again, which issues you She can shed light on like, again, very, very thoughtfully. But yeah, it’s just sort of navigating that, but it’s done with a lot of thought and communication within the company. Yeah. I hope that answered your question.

Kara Goldin 25:14
No, definitely did. So I saw you recently got into the beverage industry so with faux PA. So how did that come about?

Aleen Dreksler 25:24
Oh, boy, thank you for bringing that up. I’m so excited about faux pas. We started creating it two years ago with our partner eg Gallo. And they also own high noon and a bunch of other really amazing beverage brands. And we knew we always wanted to make like a, like a tequila or vodka based drink, because we know that based on our data, and also knowing, just like our audience, like that’s what our majority of our audience drinks and also from a lot of surveys that like a majority of our audience does drink. So we’re like an end from a lot of people writing in we have a lot of like two way communication with our audience. They’ve always I’ve just always seen please make a drink would be amazing. So we’re like, what is that for us. And so we created a canned cocktail line that just came out three months ago in April called faux PA. There’s four different flavors. It’s 8% alcohol, so it is delicious and strong. And we have two tequila to vodka base, spicy mango Margarita, a grapefruit, orange, tequila soda, we have a Bartlett pear, vodka, mule, and a lemon, mint vodka soda. It is selling like crazy. And I’m so excited about it. Because we put so much energy, creative energy, and just like so much effort into making a really, really good drink. Because we really care that this wasn’t just I mean, the cans are beautiful, there’s really funny copy of it’s so in brand for us. And all of that we care that it look looked good on the shelves, and that people could Instagram with it. We really cared about that, that it tasted really good. And that people would come back. Like yeah, they took their picture. But then they told their friends and then they went back for another. And that also, this drink was something that our audience and young women could like enjoy with friends. And that would create connection with friends. And it would add some meaning to their weekend like, oh, they had such a great night by with drinking faux pas by betches. Like, wow, and they have this like now new connection to our brand, whether it was a great night out or just a fun conversation of bonding with their best friends like that. That was also really important to us when making this brand. And I’m so excited people are liking it. People are like this is really the best canned cocktail I’ve ever drank like, and that is very, it’s a very rewarding feeling. Because knowing how much we put into it,

Kara Goldin 28:01
are you selling it online? Or is your partner primarily responsible for selling it

Aleen Dreksler 28:05
in liquor stores, since it’s it’s a liquor, like there’s a lot of you know, like laws and regulations around it. So you have to sell it in liquor stores, or restaurants and bars. Right now it’s available in 16 states because it just came out. So 16 markets, but we’re expanding it as demand increases. If you if you want to see if it is available in your state or in your area, you can also check on drizzly app or on our website, but drizzly can also just like have it delivered to you. But yeah, it’s it’s sold through the legal ways in which you can sell alcohol.

Kara Goldin 28:37
Got it. So when companies start, there’s always like a mission and a reason for starting. You talked a little bit about that. But do you think that’s evolved? I mean, how do you see as your audience has grown? I mean, they’ve grown up, right? There’s a loyal audience, and people are going through different life stages. Maybe they started with you in their early 20s. Maybe they’re having kids, maybe they’re not having kids, maybe they’re going through a time when they’re really thinking do I even want kids or whatever it is like how do you think about your mission overall, and especially as you continue to grow and stay in business?

Aleen Dreksler 29:15
Yeah, I hear you about like people growing up, everything changes. I just had a baby less than a year ago. Things definitely change. But for us, our mission is really to create a space or provide a space for women to get real about life funny, honest and unfiltered. So that’s like, Where can we show up we can show up in many different areas, whatever your life stages, whatever your interests are, like we can show up as long as there’s a conversation to be had where you can like really talk like vulnerably but also you can laugh through certain things that are going on in your life, whether that’s motherhood or relationships and dating or That’s like news and pop culture. Like there’s if there’s a conversation to be had, if there’s like something where you can like, talk about it as if you’re talking with your friends and saying something real, and honest, and unfiltered, and also with like a funny spin, that’s where we can exist. And I think that the, we’ve spent 10 years 11 years, excuse me, like really building our brand equity, so that we can exist in multiple spaces, multiple conversations and verticals. And that we can expand past media like bird launch, and a cock launched a cocktail that’s like not a real product that exists in real stores that you’re holding, and drinking and consuming. That’s different than a meme or a podcast. So over those 11 years, we really cared about building that brand. And that loyalty that you speak of is really important to us, like engagement, and the communication we have with our and the connection that we have with our audience is really important. Yeah, the the missions sort it’s, it’s evolved, but it’s, it’s pretty much stayed the same. It just evolved because we became more professional. And like really figured out like what is our space, like continue to build out that like whitespace for betches, especially as media continues to evolve?

Kara Goldin 31:18
Did you ever think about doing a male version of this network?

Aleen Dreksler 31:22
Yeah, but no, I don’t need to be everything for everyone. Like, that’s not, that’s not the goal. It’s, you know, let’s, let’s keep women’s you know, let’s keep it for, you know, women. And just because there’s a lot to discuss within, like, the things that we deal with, and, and there’s male counterpart brands, and they can try to get the female market, but we have it.

Kara Goldin 31:50
It’s so great. Well, thank you so much, Eileen. And it’s so nice to always meet people behind the brands. And every time I’m watching, I will be thinking about you for sure. Because it is I truly feel like it’s an advantage for entrepreneurs when you get out there and people can actually see who’s behind it. Because I mean, that’s the difference between large brands today that are older brands, they don’t have the founding stories and I think your founding story is so incredible and how you’ve weathered storms you jumped in with friends to go into a very competitive business that you’re growing and shining and many respects so I really admire that a lot and I know everybody else will as well and if you have not seen batches then you have been living under a rock and you should definitely get on social media and go figure out where to find batches for sure. But where is the best place to follow you as well Eileen,

Aleen Dreksler 33:00
you can find batches You can see everything that we have all of our podcasts are all the Instagram channels, accounts, everything shot batches. If you want to follow us at batches on Instagram, you can follow me personally at Aileen al e n. Just look up batches on your platform of choice and hopefully we’re there

Kara Goldin 33:19
totally. And thanks everybody for listening to this incredible episode. Definitely give it five stars that helps a ton with the algorithm. Definitely subscribe as well. If you are not already a subscriber, that is a must, must do so that you get to hear incredible interviews from founders and CEOs who are building great great companies like batches. And just a reminder I can be found on all platforms to at Kara Goldin and if you haven’t picked up a copy of my book, on daunted overcoming doubts and doubters building the company of hint, definitely do so. And we are now here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, three times a week. So hope you will all continue listening and definitely give us a review. Shoot us a DM and let us know what you’re thinking. And thanks again, Aileen. It was such a pleasure having you on.

Aleen Dreksler 34:17
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Kara Goldin 34:19
Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight? Send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening