Ken Mackenzie: Founder of Fresh Victor

Episode 407

Ken Mackenzie, Founder of Fresh Victor, knows a thing or two about craft cocktails. Having spent years in the spirits industry, he recognized what could truly mess up a nice drink. So he decided to create the magic. The premium, cold-pressed juice mixers that allow you to get out from behind the bar and back to the party after creating those delicious craft cocktails and amazing mocktails all your friends will be talking about for weeks. Listen to this episode as Ken shares more about his journey, the brand he is building and so much more. This episode is great and you won’t want to miss it! On this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow.

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone, it’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. And I am so excited to have our next guest. Here we have Ken Mackenzie here who is the founder of an incredible brand called Fresh Victor, if you have not heard of it, you are going to be out of your mind excited when you hear about the convenience, but also the taste of Fresh Victor. So Ken knows a thing or two about craft cocktails, having spent years in the spirits industry and recognizing what truly messes up a nice drink. So he decided to create the magic and the premium cold pressed juice mixers, which is called Fresh Victor, that allow you to get out from behind the bar and back to the party. I love that saying that I saw on their website, after creating those delicious craft cocktails that everyone is going to be talking about for weeks. So I can’t wait to have you experience Fresh Victor, but also hear the backstory because it’s so incredible from an incredible entrepreneur and founder, Ken McKenzie. So without further ado, welcome, Ken.

Ken Mackenzie 1:54
Thank you. So what a wonderful and warm introduction. Thank you so much for having me on.

Kara Goldin 1:59
Well, I’m very excited to have you on and I really do believe in your product. And it’s, it’s an incredible taste. But like I said the convenience of it. I mean, everybody wants people talking about their cocktails when they come over to their house for a barbecue. They’re like, what did you do? And you can say, Oh, I squeezed lime and jalapeno and everything else for you. So very, very exciting. But before we get into speaking about the rest of your journey, I’d love to hear like, what were the early years for you. I talked about the spirits industry. But what was Ken doing before founding Fresh Victor?

Ken Mackenzie 2:40
Yeah, so it’s actually a love story. I ended up falling in love with a girl here in Northern California. And she was finishing up school. And after she had finished, she went home to Guadalajara, Mexico. And so I ended up getting a plane ticket and following her down there. And at the time, I was really quite honestly just looking for a reason to be there to stay looking at investment opportunities, or something that I could do that would kind of add value or be different than what other people were doing. I didn’t want to enter, enter necessarily enter into a saturated space, if you will. And from an investment standpoint, I was always taught, you know, isn’t somebody already probably doing it? And aren’t they doing it better than you can. And so, you know, I wasn’t checking a whole lot of boxes, because as I was looking around, it’s such a warm, and you know, just fascinating culture down there. It’s really different people are extremely welcoming, first and foremost. But when I look to my right, and I look to my left, it was a lot of art, and jewelry, and textiles and electronics and all these things that had been done, and were currently being done well, and, you know, a fair amount of innovation. And so for me, I really tried to identify what I could be passionate about. And from that standpoint, you know, what my wife and I really had in common was we love culinary arts, we love you know, really unique things that can be created in in that way. And the one space that was so prevalent there, but not so much here or in Europe or Asia or anywhere else was true, truly 100% agave tequila I mean the Epicurean spirit the the real essence of Mexico or of Jalisco and what I found very quickly, was I was not informed. And so, you know, I went through all of the very pure rational, you know, type of questions of worming the bottle krever you know, all the things that people looked at me horrified like what we did, he just did Yeah. And I realized there was a whole world that I had no idea even existed much more like cognac, much more high end, and things that weren’t visible when I’d come back home to the San Francisco Bay area. So I was fascinated by that. And I was lucky enough that her family knew all the right people. And I was able to get a very fast, not only education, but understanding of the differences between Mexico and the United States. And their prodigious. You know, Mexico is very much a cash based society of what can you do for me today now, whereas the US is, hey, let’s talk about performance for five years and credit and, you know, getting a true partnership or brand going. And so by identifying kind of some of those differences, I found myself, you know, kind of vertically integrated into this space, that, you know, the previous year, I knew very little about. And as you know, I started uncovering opportunities. Eventually, what ended up happening was, us, my wife, and I importing our own tequila brands, which was a tremendous, you know, experience and which lasted about 15 or 20 years. And to correlate that to, you know, where we are today. One thing that was always prevalent when I was doing distributor meetings for tequila or account meetings, whether they were for restaurants or bars, or, you know, anywhere else was always, you know, how do you make the best cocktails? There’s no, you know, I missed most of my dinner parties that my wife and I have between 2002 and 2010, because I was just behind the bar the entire evening, squeezing fresh limes, adding agave nectar and water in, you know, making drinks to order, if you will. And one of the things that we had thought about quite a bit was, how do you how do you capture this lightning? Or how do you capture this in a singular bottle? Uh, huh. How do you make it easier for like an operator that’s operating a casino or a nightclub or a restaurant or a bar, or for somebody at home, that’s just having people dinner guests over or, you know, by the pool on a Saturday afternoon. And I found that I didn’t have a good answer. At all, people kept asking me, but I kept saying, you make it from scratch, you take that four minutes or five minutes that it takes to really make a good cocktail. So that’s kind of where I’m in 2008 2009, we had created our first fresh mixer brand, and noticed that there was a real practical application for that, everywhere we went. And it became a real sense of not only pride, I think that you know, with tequila, we were so proud of the tequila as we did, and you know, the quality that we were able to provide. But with this, it seemed to be so much more of a broad market opportunity. That with fresh product like this, if you’re making you know, prickly pear and pomegranate, or you know, jalapeno lime, or pineapple and ginger or whatever you’re doing, it really didn’t matter anymore. If you were drinking tequila, vodka and rum, gin, whiskey champagne for Mimosa as beer for Mitchell Ana’s. Or, if you even wanted to go the other direction, you could use water for agua fresca, or sparkling water for just a really low carb Cal soft drink, because we don’t use any preservatives.

Kara Goldin 8:43
So interesting. Well, I totally got your brand from the minute our mutual friend Laurie walks introduced us. So when did Fresh Victor actually start?

Ken Mackenzie 8:55
So it was something that we had been working on, since about 2014. And believe it or not, you would think hey, this seems fairly elementary or perhaps you know, I could get this right. It’s only four ingredients for the maximum I’m gonna give it. It’s a lot like baking is what I found. Yeah, if the ingredients if the measurements of set ingredients are off in any way, shape, or form the pH, whether it’s acidity or bricks or anything else, it throws off the whole thing. And so even though it doesn’t seem so complicated, by the nature of what it is, it really took quite a while a to figure out the correct balances and formulations, especially to titrate up to like a larger production run. But be and more importantly, we wanted to do this right the right way out of the gate and the right way for us is to do our refrigerated fresh product. And people don’t do that very much anymore in the US. They just, I mean, I’m shocked at how many people that actually said, Is there any way you can possibly make the shelf stable? Please?

Kara Goldin 10:15
Yeah, well, I’m not that surprised, given sort of where I’ve been in the industry. But yeah, it’s, I think so many people have gone to, in that direction, particularly stores or restaurants, right. And some of the, those channels of distribution.

Ken Mackenzie 10:34
Yeah, it’s a great channel. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with it at all, there’s a ton of great product out there that shelf stable, the thing I think that I’ve always really strive for, is to have a unique brand positioning. And that can only come from kind of Genesis or inception. And to do it, you know, to kind of keep to doing what you actually want to achieve or your end goal. And so for us, it really was to create something refrigerated. And that actually became somewhat of an issue because we had to find, you know, the right circumstances in order to do it the way we wanted to do it. And so we actually launched press, Victor, March of 2017.

Kara Goldin 11:17
Interesting, because you were still trying to play around with exactly how to make the best available option. So what was the what was the SKU that you actually launched with?

Ken Mackenzie 11:29
We actually launched originally with five skews. But the one that we lead with is called Mexican, lime, and agave. And as you may imagine, from the title, with fresh lime, and agave, you can do so many different things with that. I mean, the things that come right off the top of my head are margaritas and daiquiris just in store. But it’s such a fragrant and unique, you know, product offering that what we found was there was so much more practical application beyond that. What I like about it is it’s easy for the consumer to understand. And so the fall almost an emerald bleed and margaritas, which is absolutely fine with me.

Kara Goldin 12:13
Yeah, yeah. But you could use it for other things, including non alcoholic drinks as well. Yeah, absolutely. So that is still kind of the one of the hero skews where people can definitely understand, oh, this is what I would use it for

Ken Mackenzie 12:30
1,000% I’d say that, you know, whenever you have something like this, you want kind of the champion sitting at the very top of the pyramid. And this is what I feel gets us the initial attention because people understand it so well. And then once they try it, inevitably, they’ll say, what else do you have? What else has been created? And that’s the fun part of letting them ski down that mountain and figure it out for themselves.

Kara Goldin 12:56
I love it. So where did the name come from?

Ken Mackenzie 12:59
You know, it’s really interesting, that the name facet, when you look at a brand positioning, are you looking at how you want to telegraph your product to whether it’s buyers on premise or consumers off premise, you really want something that’s catchy, that they’ll understand right away. And these days and 2023. You know, one of the biggest things is what claims are you actually making to the consumer. And so I got personally really frustrated because I thought, since you know we’re fresh, we’re all natural. We’re a preservative free, we’re non GMO, or kosher. We’re all these awesome things, that I can just rattle it off and list them all. And what counsel had said is no, please don’t do that. Don’t do that. And if you’re really proud of your product, that’s the first thing you want to do. And so not that we got into an imbroglio but we certainly got into a difference of opinion about how we wanted to introduce this product to market. And one of the things that was really impressed upon me is we really don’t want you to write on the bottle all natural. Well, but it is all natural. Doesn’t matter. Anybody can, you know, call you out on that and say, Hey, your version of all natural not might not be my version of all natural. So we really had to think about you know, okay, that that seems like a real loss here considering what we’re doing. But then we thought about, you know, within the context of the title, what if the first word is fresh? That’s exactly what we are. They had no problem with that. It’s part of a title. And that’s exactly what I wanted to convey to everybody

Kara Goldin 14:49
evoke? Yeah, yeah.

Ken Mackenzie 14:50
Yeah. Is the first word you see fresh. You know, I want something fresh. I want to serve something fresh. And then victory is almost like a victory. I mean, you’re winning here. You’re buying something fresh, you’re serving something fresh, you can be proud of what you’re serving.

Kara Goldin 15:05
Now, I love it. So great. So I’ve seen a ton of continued growth, not only in the craft cocktail industry, but also mocktails. And you touched on this, you can use your product for mocktails as well or low alcoholic cocktails. Where do you see that? That category going? I mean, you’re, you’re sort of in the thick of it right now. I mean, how do you? How do you see that growing? In the future?

Ken Mackenzie 15:34
I think no, we’re going up. I mean, I really believe that. My children, innately almost, it’s the most unique thing in the world where we had growing up, you know, back in the 70s, and 80s. For me there, there was a real prevalent cocktail culture. And that was kind of a throwback to my grandparents and my great grandparents. And there was just this whole thing post prohibition as far as understanding what spirits were understanding what that you know, that martinis tools by the bar. And with kids these days, it’s really interesting. Like my kids drink water. They asked for water. They didn’t gravitate towards soft drinks. They didn’t gravitate towards anything. They’re they’re really health healthy and health, health conscious driven. There’s a real movement for cocktails. Yes, epicurean cocktails for sure. But the mocktail and low alcohol movement is definitely here to stay. I’m getting asked more and more for mocktail alternatives for home menus. For hotels, for restaurants, for different ways to use our product, whether you’re just cutting it with water for fresh agua fresca in volume, or whether you’re making, you know, more complex mocktails, using non alcoholic spirits using sparkling water or club soda, using soft drinks, or even teas, in order to blend them together to make something more complex, which is really cool. To me. I think it’s a great application.

Kara Goldin 17:13
No, it’s definitely see the same trend. So how do you currently go to market? And how do you see maybe that evolving?

Ken Mackenzie 17:22
I think that’s a great question. Because I think that we’re going to see a lot of evolution with us how we’re currently going to market or you know, how we did from inception, was really being placed in kind of the wine and spirits aisle or category. And so oftentimes, it was the spirits buyers bringing us in to complement their portfolio or I would even say it creating a halo effect over their spirits portfolio to say, Hey, have you seen this stuff, it’s fresh, it’s preservative free, it goes with anything, it doesn’t matter what’s in your shopping cart, vodka, rum, gin, tequila, whiskey, whatever you want, that goes with this stuff. And that’s a really good way to enter into that market space to be able to say, hey, you can really pair this with anything that you like best, or anything that you already have in your liquor cabinet. But then we see kind of this whole new ocean that’s coming up on the horizon of how can I use this in a completely different way. And so we’re starting to see secondary placements in the marketplace, like in produce, or in the juice aisle, or you know, anywhere else, where it’s basically saying, Hey, if you this can be adapted to not only a healthy lifestyle, but you don’t necessarily need to be drinking alcohol to enjoy fresh Fichter. And I think we’ll continue to see more and more of that over time.

Kara Goldin 18:49
I love it. So you’re available nationwide, obviously, through direct to consumer, what’s the biggest channel for you right now?

Ken Mackenzie 18:57
Biggest channel for us right now is on premise. So it’s restaurants, casinos, hotels, resorts, you know, these sorts of places that serve it on the property. I really try to kind of laser focus on markets that we want to lay a foundation. So that influenced the other markets. And so we’re kind of hyper focused right now on California, Las Vegas, Texas, and Florida, are really big cocktail markets. And so for the for the most part, although, you know, we’re certainly servicing other markets. We really try to align ourselves with Hotel Groups or resorts or places where you can find fresh fixture being utilized for a lot of the cocktails or poolside cocktails are you’re able to enjoy it and ask Hey, where can I get that outside of this establishment?

Kara Goldin 19:56
That’s great. So you’re able to use a lot of your previous Experience and connections to be able to do this obviously don’t have the same barriers with shipping that maybe some of the spirits had. So your your pals back from your former days are probably just salivating at all of the opportunity that you have to be able to grow in a in a great way. So being an entrepreneur is super tough. How do you stay motivated, right? Like you’re working with other brands in the past that are growing their brands? And you know, obviously, you’re making their connections and getting people in. But now you’re like, the buck stops with you, right? You’ve got to like, how do you explain what you’re doing to people? What do you do with the nose that come about? You know, how do you get back up again? Like, how, how do you stay motivated to just keep moving forward?

Ken Mackenzie 20:56
I think is it as cliche as it sounds, is you really have to love what you do, you have to believe in it wholeheartedly. Like you, I have to wake up on Monday, like, it’s Saturday, I you know, all the days are the same, because in a lot of ways, I’m the luckiest guy in the world. Right? You just reference this, you know, as much as I miss the day, day in and day out with just tequila, tequila, tequila. This is a product that my kids can enjoy. My family’s 10,000% behind. I love all the people I work with. It’s just a tremendous group of people. And we’re all incredibly passionate about this, because it’s a product we can be truly proud of. And so every time I pitched the product, I feel like it’s the first time I’m pitching it. I love it. You know, and I think actors or anybody else must go through that this when they do things in repetition, where they’re doing a play or something. And it’s the same thing over and over and over again. And you think man, this gets really tiring. If you really believe in what you’re saying. And the other part of this is when you really watch the person across the table from you experience it for the first time. That really, you know, puts a lot of fuel to the fire for me, I love experiencing that and seeing the feet, the the feedback, the noes have come for, you know, a myriad of different reasons, you know, hey, I’m at a product review, or it’s not the right time because they just reprinted menus or, you know, whatever. I would get a lot more discouraged if that No, was coupled by I don’t understand it. I don’t like yeah, I don’t get it, then I go, Oh, well, you know, we’re gonna hit a brick wall. It’s never that it’s always like, wow, this is, you know, amazing. But let’s revisit in a while. So it’s really easy for me, especially with this product. And to what you referenced a little bit earlier here. The one thing I don’t miss about tequila is the regulations around it, you know, all I felt so handcuffed. And I stayed so far away from DTC with tequila, because it’s something you just don’t want to get involved with or touch. And with this product, it has practical application anywhere. And it’s really easy to present to people.

Kara Goldin 23:19
That’s awesome. What is the barrier, then for most of your accounts that you’re going to I mean, people get it, right, they probably tell you all kinds of stories about how, you know, they always try and create, you know, they squeeze their own lives or whatever it is that that they share with you all of their stories about mixing different cocktails up and I’m sure you hear that over and over again. But what is the barrier then? Because I would imagine that, you know, they say, Oh, we can just do this ourself. But you and I talked about this, it’s cost savings, right? That when they start to think about and labor shortages, you’ve got to have people who are going to create all of the great stuff that you do it’s not impossible to do it but it’s just hard and it’s expensive. And and so a product like yours comes in and it definitely is creating a lot of those savings but it also allows them to focus on the rest of their business I guess is the best way to say it.

Ken Mackenzie 24:22
It consistency. You know, I you know I always spoon in I’m sure the you may have as well as you were trying out different new places. If you find a place that you really love. I would as a sweeping generalization find that the bartender on Monday didn’t make the exact same drink that the bartender on Saturday made. Once a professional bartender has been doing for 30 years. The other guy is a college kid that just wants to get home and he’s trying to get through the shift. And so the problem when you’re using fresh ingredients and you have variables Is everybody can interpretate those variables differently, especially quantity wise, and what an establishment wants from both an operational cost saving basis, as well as a customer satisfaction basis is what you’re serving is consistently the same all the time, you’re just nailing it seven days a week, shift to shift. And what we can really offer is these base ingredients, like, you know, you take your citrus or you take your mint, or your ginger or whatever, we’re happy, you know, your strawberry, or whatever we’re using for our mixers is going to be exactly on point the same way each and every time each time somebody pours it. And then all you have to do is add the liquor, or the champagne, or the you know, whatever you’re adding to it. And so from that basis, you know, you can not only eliminate some of your distribution channels, because you don’t have to touch as many distributors, you’re able to really get a foundation or a platform where everybody’s doing things the same way for an exact per poor cost point. And that’s a beautiful thing.

Kara Goldin 26:14
So you’ve scaled a number of different companies, and helped scale a number of different companies. Is there a formula for success? For companies? Like how do you? Like if if somebody wants to start a company, you’d say, Okay, you got to what are those things, you got to have a great product or service, you’ve got to have the right margins, you’ve got to have the right team? Like, what am I missing? What are the things that are really, really critical,

Ken Mackenzie 26:46
that magic algebraic formula that you can just emulate over and over again, you know, one thing I learned at a young age watching people do this is that you really have to have some somebody passionate, championing the cause. Once it goes that champion, or that passion goes away, you’re it’s just a vortex, it’s just going to collapse upon itself, you have to be driven. And so yes, from a variable standpoint, I definitely think that you need a product that has quality that you love, and you know, these good things that you can be really passionate about. You also try to, if you can at all have some sort of distinct points of difference from others, it’s just not a me too product. But it doesn’t have to be eight points of difference. But if you have a couple, it’s really nice to start a conversation. And then you need to have the right team, you know, I’ve seen teams implode on themselves, because there’s egos involved or because they have separate missions that they’re going after, or whatever else. If you can have your team all working on the same page with that passion, and, you know, championing said, cause you’re really going to see some incredible gains. And people will enjoy working with you, because they’ll feel that you really have a love for what you’re doing. And that first and foremost, okay, that attention. And then you know, scaling, I think that one thing I also learned at a younger age is you never want to take an investor’s money to learn. Right? The the learning is are costly. Yep, they have to occur. Because there’s no way that you know, whatever you’re doing, you got to make sure that you dial it in. But you want to make sure that you do that on your dime that you do that on your with your resources. So you can really figure out okay, this is where we fit into the marketplace. Now, I really need fuel for that rocket ship. So we can just scale exactly what we’re doing and emulate the successes over and over and over again. And if you can get to that stage where you’re just scaling what’s already working, you’re going to be in a pretty good spot each and every time.

Kara Goldin 29:08
So which is tougher spirits or the mixer market?

Ken Mackenzie 29:14
Oh, man. They’ve both caused me to want to go to sleep at three or four in the afternoon. Yeah, it’s a tough one. You know, I if you were if you had asked me that. Five years ago, I probably each and every day what it says spirits by far like absolutely spirits. Spirits is a tough business to be in. But what I will say, you know, refrigerated products are very difficult when you’re dealing with code dates. And you’re dealing with third party distribution, and you’re you’re dealing with logistics, you know, getting it to other parts of the country. I you know, I’m really lucky I consider myself very fortunate. I have the team that I have that really specializes in these aspects because it would drive me just absolutely nuts. It did for years when I started this. So I would have to say, you know, from a saturation standpoint, spirits, anybody that’s getting into the spirits business these days is a brave soul, in the sense that there’s a lot of dealers, a lot of auctions, a lot of rooms, you know, it’s a huge ocean to be swimming in with their refrigerated thing. You’re going to have a lot of barriers to entry with a lot of accounts, and distributors and warehouses. telling you this is going to be a difficult, difficult thing to scale. And you have to be able to get through that initial time period of I’d even say, the first couple of years, where you’re figuring out, hey, how does this work best? And so, you know, I, I would say, that’s a coin toss, which is cool.

Kara Goldin 31:07
Yeah. And it’s definitely challenging. I’ve, we’ve had a number of guests from different industries, we’ve had to deal with, you know, the only thing harder than then refrigerated as frozen, right? Like, I mean, we’ve, we’ve talked to a number of people who have had popsicles and lots of different things. It’s hard. It’s hard. It’s really, it’s really, really tough. And I, I agree with you that there’s a, you know, dealing with third party logistics, trying to win, we had a short shelf life, with hint in the beginning, we, you know, trying to get people to actually different distributors, move it to the front versus actually restocking their supply and putting the old stuff in the back, and then you get chargebacks. And I mean, it’s really, really challenging. So and, you know, you can’t be everywhere. So it’s, you’ve got to deal with all of those headaches along the way, for sure. So, super, super interesting. But Okay, so last question, best advice you can remember that you’ve ever gotten in business or in life, as you’ve been building out these businesses? When you talk to other entrepreneurs, like, you know, what do you need to remind yourself on those really challenging days, to keep moving forward,

Ken Mackenzie 32:32
you’re going to hear a lot of different suggestions from a lot of different people along the way, everybody has an idea of what you’re doing wrong, and how you can do it better. And if you do it the right way out of the gate, in your heart and your mind, if you have actually created something that you’re completely on board with that you think, Hey, I love this. And I know it can work, if I can figure out the variables we’ve discussed. Stick to what you believe in, really stick to what you believe in, because you can get pulled in and 500 different directions. And the more you get pulled in some directions, the more fragmented you’ll be the last focus you’ll have, you have to stick and be focused. And even if you’re just dealing with a singular geography, Hey, I just want to see if this works in the Bay Area, make it work in the Bay Area, make it work in Northern California, then Southern California, and then spread it out from there. But don’t pander to what other people are saying, Take take good advice with and if you believe that good advice, adjust accordingly. But don’t follow the next shiny idea. Because what will end up happening is you just won’t have the same product that you started with. And then what did you do for in the first place?

Kara Goldin 33:57
Yeah, absolutely key. So I love that. That is so powerful seriously. And I think that that is, you know, people get think like, Oh, I’ve got to take this piece of advice, because that person’s got lots of experience. They, but everybody’s path is different, too. And at the end of the day, you’ve got to figure it out for yourself, trust your gut along the way, but I think that that is super great advice. So well. Thank you so much, Ken, everyone needs to try Fresh Victor. If you have not tried it, we’ll have all the info for you and for the company in the show notes too. But I really appreciate you coming on today, Ken and good luck with everything. It’s such great product. I’m I’m serious if if anyone has not tried it, you definitely have to order on their website. And As Ken mentioned, it’s in lots of restaurants now and it’s getting into more and more stores as well. So thank you again, Ken.

Ken Mackenzie 35:00
Thank you so much for having me on. It was such a great pleasure to see you.

Kara Goldin 35:03
Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would, please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit. And of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen. Or pick up a copy of my book on daunted which I share my journey, including founding and building hint. We are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And thanks everyone for listening. Have a great rest of the week, and 2023 and good bye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening