John Foraker: Co-founder & CEO of Once Upon A Farm

Episode 271

Tune in and listen as John Foraker, Co-Founder and CEO of Once Upon A Farm and former CEO of Annie’s, shares what it means to build a company with a mission, how challenges along the way are inevitable and what he is most excited about for the future of consumer products. So many inspiring thoughts on this episode! On this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. It’s Kara Goldin. And we are here with the Kara Goldin show. And I am so thrilled to have my next guest, we have John Foraker, who is the co founder and CEO of Once Upon a farm. And John is an incredible, incredible leader, somebody who I have admired I got a chance to meet him when he was at another one of my favorite brands, and E’s which he was leading. And if you’re not familiar with Danny’s, you’ve been living under a rock. He was leading the US team from 1999 to 2017 as CEO, and he took the company public in 2012, before General Mills acquired the business, and just, again, has been through so many different iterations of companies. His recent company is, as I mentioned, once upon a farm, which he is the CEO of, and he decided to go and launch this with a very well known actress who I’ll let him share a little bit more about that. Yeah, let’s just get started. Stop talking. Kara. Let’s just hear more from John. So, John, welcome.

John Foraker 2:02
Hey, thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here. Really, really

Kara Goldin 2:05
excited. So let’s start at the beginning. I’d love to get a picture of John as a kid. I mean, like, what did you think you were going to do with your life?

John Foraker 2:16
Oh, that’s a great visual because John was a kid was kind of ratty, long, blonde hair, with glasses, they were always broken with a piece of tape or, or a little light screw through. I was, um, I was really active kid and played a lot of sports and broke my glasses about every week for my entire youth. So that was me.

Kara Goldin 2:41
Oh, my God, what did you think you were going to do for for a career for money?

John Foraker 2:47
I never really thought much about it. Honestly, until I was in high school and somebody. Somebody said, Hey, if you’re interested in being in farming, because I came from a farming family, you probably need to go to UC Davis, which is in Northern California. And so I applied there and to other schools. And that was it. Like, I thought I was going to be a farmer and spent most of my summers in high school on the back of a D seven Caterpillar Tractor, pulling a plow and, and so that was my vision for myself when I went to college.

Kara Goldin 3:23
So interesting. So your, your first job out of college,

John Foraker 3:27
my first job out of college was, I went to work at Bank of America in a corporate lending training program. Some somewhere somebody had given me some advice that it was a good idea to go work for a bank because you would learn about other businesses. I wish I knew who that was. So I can give them attribution. But I can’t remember where I got that idea. But it was definitely not mine. I’m sure if somebody told me that. And I went first and trained up in Redding in Northern California, in a business unit that worked in the forest products like tree cutting area, lumber, and then I moved down to my first corporate role was in the wine business lending unit in St. Alena in the Napa Valley. And so he spent the next six or seven years there, working with wineries in Northern California, most of the banks really well known wineries.

Kara Goldin 4:22
So interesting. What, what was the most surprising thing about working in the wine industry for you?

John Foraker 4:27
The thing that I’ll always remember is the learning at one point that the price of a product doesn’t have a lot to do with what’s in it. And here’s what I mean by that. So I had multiple wineries that would sell a bottle of wine of their best stuff for let’s say, 9099. And then they would have a very similar almost exactly the same product that they would sell for, let’s say, a different price point like 1199. And I always remembered like, wondering how are people paying that higher price, don’t they realize it’s the same product. And it wasn’t really, it wasn’t really the same product because it was a different brand. So that’s the first time I learned about like, oh my gosh, brands can actually give you the ability to get somebody to pay a premium. And it was a whole, a whole learning exercise for me and like, brands and margins in the light. That was the most surprising thing for me in the wine industry.

Kara Goldin 5:22
So shifting out of the finance world, and you know, it sounds like you started to go into consumer brands. At that point, what was your first role outside of finance then?

John Foraker 5:35
So I left bank of America and went back to business school at UC Berkeley. I really wanted to get an MBA from Berkeley, I applied three times it was denied twice, got in on a shoestring the last time and when I was there in 1993 1994, I got together with two people I knew from the wine industry and in the restaurant business in the st. Alena area. And we started a company that was called Napa Valley kitchens, and it was basically selling like, flavored specialty olive oils and vinegars before, that was a thing. It was like it was really one of the first ones doing it. And the brand was called Consorzio. And we got the brand into William Sonoma. And it became a really big business in like specialty channels like William Sonoma Neiman Marcus Dayton Hudson, in the early version of Whole Foods. Freshfields in the Northeast. And that’s that’s where I started.

Kara Goldin 6:30
So interesting. So I met you when you were leading Annie’s and I think it was right before you were taking the company public, actually. So you had been there a little while prior to all of that happening. That was your first CEO role was with Annie’s correct.

John Foraker 6:49
So it was like kind of a I kind of defaulted into the CEO role at Napa Valley kitchens, even though I wasn’t really qualified for it. And I learned a lot in that in that job. But yeah, it was my first full fledged CEO role, I would say as 80s. That’s right. And that really began in 1999. Mike came in as an investor. But then I started running the business in 2003, full time, and grew that from a very small little business to you know, what it turned into. And it was quite a journey, full of mistakes and accidents and near death experiences, all the stuff that comes with entrepreneurship.

Kara Goldin 7:29
That was great. I remember your office so well. And Berkeley, I mean, it was just it was such an amazing space. And what was your fondest memory and growing that brand? I mean, you got in there when it was you know, pretty small. And what would you say is sort of when you think back on one of the fondest memories of growing up brand,

John Foraker 7:51
Sir, one of my fondest memories was the day we went public. Actually, the night before we went public, I was in New York City, and they were set up, we were set to open the exchange the next morning, on the New York Stock Exchange, I walked down and I saw the as they do the branding on the side of the New York Stock Exchange big purple with Bernie, our mascot, the rabbit up there, and it was just absolutely beautiful. And it was such a crazy moment because our entire journey from the beginning of the company through to that point had been about challenging from the outside. We were going up against Kraft in you know that whole time and Kraft to own this macaroni and cheese category. And we were really also one of the first organic brands that was breaking into the center of store of grocery not breaking out of the little natural store sections that used to exist in grocery stores in the US and coming into the mainstream aisle. And to me, I looked up at that and felt like from not just for myself, but for other brands who had similarly done that, like dairy at Stony fields, you know, sad that honesty, like they they really made organic a category in the US like really made it and that was kind of a sense of wow, I think organic has really arrived.

Kara Goldin 9:13
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that you guys were instrumental and making that especially for for the category. I mean, it was it was you know, game changing for sure. Just being a a young founder of a company trying to make a difference just watching you and sort of what you were doing to be able to make that happen. So you took the company public and how did it happen that change your company in any way? I mean, how long were you actually public them before you were acquired

John Foraker 9:48
a little less than three years and I tried to have it not change our company much but it’s really hard the pressure is very difficult to deal with because the focus of the out Same world on your business comes down to quarters versus the way you kind of think about it as an entrepreneur running it. And that was a big adjustment. And I remember coming back after we went public, and there’s like this kind of LoL after your public where you’re now public, and then you’re trading, but like you come back into the office, and you’re explaining to people what’s different. And I tried to explain to them that we’re, we’re the same company, we were the day before we went public. We’re the same brand. We’re not any better. When our stock price goes up. We’re not any worse when it goes down on a day to day basis, we’re the same company, same people doing the same things. I tried to ingrain that, but the pressure is really significant. And we did really well. We grew the business really rapidly for a couple of years. And then the third year, there was a big problem in the wheat markets. And we were a big buyer in organic wheat. And that really started squeezing our margins. And so the second our stock price dipped a little bit, the phone started ringing, and there were a lot of interested potential acquirers. And so we ended up deciding as a board to protect interest of everybody that maybe we’d entertain some of those conversations. And that’s what we did.

Kara Goldin 11:11
Interesting. So you were acquired by General Mills, did you stay on then as the leader working underneath General Mills,

John Foraker 11:18
I did, I was brought in with what I think is a pretty typical contract for somebody like me, it was like you’re here for a year, and then you blow up, basically, you’re here for a year and then see you. But what happened during that year was they learned a lot about me, I learned a lot about them, we actually really enjoyed working with each other. And I thought we made each other better. And they did too. And so at the end of that first year that I looked at the integration, it just didn’t feel like it was done. There’s so much systems integration and work that goes into making a company that’s acquired successful in the in the frame of a big global CPG. Like that. And so I ended up staying for a really about three years. And it was really only toward the tail end of that, that I was really seriously starting to think about, maybe I need to do something different. But I enjoyed learning in that environment. i Everything I learned about the consumer packaged goods industry, I learned from being an entrepreneur, not from being part of a really big company. And so I learned a ton during that period with General Mills, I love those people. And they’re super high integrity, and they’ve done a great job with the brand. So I really honor that.

Kara Goldin 12:27
That’s awesome. We had Seth Goldman on a few weeks ago, actually, it was recorded before the decision by coke to discontinue the product that he founded at least the core product line. So it was a really interesting conversation, I think I might need to have him back on to sort of talk about kind of the next iteration, as he’s just recently announced that he’s launching another product that is in the beverage space, which I thought he was probably never going to do. But but he’s he’s coming back. But definitely, I mean, I think there are a lot of lessons that you can learn inside of large companies on both sides, right. And that’s what he that’s what he talked about in that show. So let’s talk about once upon a farm. So what does it mean to be a mission based entrepreneur.

John Foraker 13:23
So when you’re a mission based entrepreneur, you then the way I’ve always thought about it, you’re trying to build a business and a brand. That stands for something that stands for making society better in some way, whatever that that whatever that is for your brand. And in our case, it’s about improving kit nutrition, and not only the quality of it, but making it inclusive and available to more kids. And what’s cool about purpose led brands is that you can now you there’s constructs like a public benefit corporation, which we converted to, where you can actually embed those values into your articles of incorporation. So, you know, in the old way, a company’s mission, there was one mission, it was, legally, one mission was to make money. Now you can actually say it’s not just about that, it’s about these things that I value as well. And so it’s highly motivating for people, it’s highly motivating for consumers, and it becomes kind of a Northstar that you can grow and run the business and brand to and so that’s what I’ve been really, really blessed to be in brands that are that are built that way and focus that way and Once Upon farms, the most recent

Kara Goldin 14:40
so what do you mean by that? So baking it into the articles like why is that important? If somebody starting a mission based company I mean,

John Foraker 14:49
well if you if you raise capital from the outside if you decide you want to take the company public in the future, everyone knows what you’re trying to do and it’s been Part of the legal construct of the company. So if somebody can’t come in and say, Hey, I know, I know, when I invested or supported and backed this company, you said you really cared about sustainability or expanding access to kids for better nutrition for all or, or organic or sourcing from the right places, you know, with companies with that have the right values. You can’t say you didn’t know about that. It’s actually in our articles of incorporation. And we’re a certified B Corp. So every year, we’re actually certifying that we’re continuing to stay on that path. And so it’s a way to make sure that there’s alignment of the company, the management, the people that are there, the internal and external investors, the business partners that make sure everybody understands the playbook. And that’s what we’re going to try to do. That’s awesome. So I think it’s Yeah, I think it’s really important to do that.

Kara Goldin 15:52
If you’ve been listening to the Kara Goldin show for a while, you may have heard about my book undaunted, which by the way, is now a Wall Street Journal, and Amazon Best Seller. In undaunted, you will learn about my journey, not only how I came up with the idea for him, but also the ups and downs, twists and turns along the way. I learned from stories, and I guess my own story is no exception, you will definitely hear at all and undaunted, listening to books is one of my favorite secrets to getting more books under my belt, I find that I can always get a bit of listening in whether it’s on my lunch break, or even on a hike. Probably the thing that has made me happiest about writing this book is hearing from people, hearing how this book has helped them push through hard things that they are dealing with, and try new ones. I’ve heard from countless people how and Donald has helped them see that they are not alone in their difficult times, but also how pushing forward. And finding a way is usually what it takes. Looking back on my stories and sharing observations about how I got through just those sticky moments might help you think about some of your own sticky situations as well. Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t do something, it’s time to move past your fears and defy the doubters to my book. And Donard is available everywhere books are sold on Amazon and audible as well and shoot me a DM and tell me what you think back to the show. How did your company How did once upon a farm come about?

John Foraker 17:27
So it was started in 2015 by two entrepreneurs are a Cassandra dam in San Diego. And it was a really small little company, they started with a brand called mother’s garden. And then they pretty quickly developed the brand name once upon a farm by working with a friend of mine, who one day called me up and said, hey, you’ve been talking about interest in the fresh baby food category. Nobody’s been doing it like these guys are just about to do it. Are you interested in investing. And so I looked at this stuff. And I invested like two days later, became the first big outside investor. And then I worked with them for about a year, year and a half. And then our he called me in July of 2017. And basically said, Hey, Jennifer Garner’s manager and I have been talking, she’s really interested in doing something here, because she spent the last 10 plus years working with Save the Children in the US, she’s been looking for a brand to get involved with that aligns with their values around kids and nutrition. And so she’s interested in meeting you, she’s easier on the cap table and an investor. And so I, I was I flew down to LA pretty quickly to meet with her and her team and I was, uh, you know, basically a half hour late for an hour meeting, because of flat tire and all kinds of crazy stuff. A meeting almost never happened. And then then we got into the room. And we talked for about three hours. And it was really amazing. It was we talked about the challenges that kids have getting good nutrition, you asked, we talked about how hard it is for companies to provide, you know, organic for, for example, for kids at a price point they can afford. And we basically aligned on a set of values and concern for kids. And at the end of that meeting, we said to each other like, hey, I’ll do this if you do this, you want to get in coming together. And so Ariane Cassandra welcomed us and we became co founders with them the business was less than a million dollars in revenue, tiny, tiny thing. And then we raised some capital from ourselves and others and we want to grow it and turn it into something a lot bigger and that’s the journey we’ve been on for the last four and a half years.

Kara Goldin 19:41
That’s awesome. Well you guys have have really gotten amazing traction. I mean, you know what you’re doing you’ve you’ve done it in a clearly with an ease and you sort of know where the landmines are along the way. So what’s what’s been the proudest moment so far for you in growing Once upon a farm?

John Foraker 20:01
Well, I think when we really, when we really realized that we had had the opportunity to be a big brand is about a year and a half, two years. And we got some learning about the business, we had always been positioning around exclusively baby. And then we realized about 80% of our consumers, were moms buying it for kids ages one through seven, you can you can ask yourself why we didn’t know that earlier? That’s a good question. But we knew it. And once we knew that, and we started talking about that way, and positioning it that way, the brand just took literally took off. And we started becoming one of the fastest selling things in the store in the section we’re in at selling outselling all of our competition. And at that point, I knew the brand was going to be around for a long time. And it was really just a question of how big we could make it and how how impactful we can make it up against our mission and purpose?

Kara Goldin 20:57
Definitely has it been hard to grow the brand in a way and keep your mission and purpose in place. I mean, I don’t think

John Foraker 21:04
that’s been the hardest part. Because we’ve started, we’ve always been on that path. And we’ve never deviated from it. To me, the hardest part in this business was really, really getting the brand, which, which was always a great product and always had a lot of potential. But getting it to the point where it was really working like was on the retail shelf, and it was turning at extremely high velocities. It took us a while to figure that out. And, you know, literally, like every single emerging brand or started startup is, is really a rolling experiment, you’re trying things you’re trying to figure out what’s working, you’re changing things you’re tweaking, we went through a lot of that in the first in in 2018 and 2019. And we, you know, fortunately landed on some things that we’re really working in that we’re just accelerating now.

Kara Goldin 21:53
And you’re sold nationwide at this point. I know you’re in target and many other amazing places as well. It’s, you know, an incredible line for sure. You know, it’s interesting, I, I was talking to an entrepreneur the other day, I always get these calls from entrepreneurs, especially newer entrepreneurs who have never launched in stores. And, you know, they’re going to launch like two skews in and a set inside of whether it’s target or you know, some other large store, what would you say to people who are are launching? I mean, I remember, ages ago, the CEO of Burt’s Bees said to me that you need to have a presence before you launch in many of these stores. Because otherwise, you’ll be lost, you know, and it just depends on where you are in the planogram. And I mean, you’ve seen this over and over again, what would you say is sort of the learnings about space.

John Foraker 22:59
I think that’s right, when you launch it retail, to me, the the modern playbook, which which you really, you know, we’re a pioneer on at hand was really driving online, I mean, that’s really, really important. Because you can establish this closeness with your, your consumer and really understanding them. But once you step over into retail, to me, it’s always important to make sure you really figure out what works and build build really strong velocity. So do that on a small base of stores before you go to the big ones. Because I agree when you try to go into a major retailer nationally, and you go in with two three skews, you get lost, it’s just noise, you really need enough facings to be able to break through and catch the consumers eye in that, you know, less than a half second that you have to catch it if they don’t know the brand, when they’re walking by you in the store. And it’s it’s critical what we found with our business, the more skews that we have in our assortment up to a point. But it’s a pretty high point in terms of skews, the velocity of everything accelerate. So it’s not like you put more items in and you’re diluting your turns. It’s actually the opposite. Because it’s that stop ability. You’re actually stopping people in the store. When they walk down to a produce aisle at Target and they see a whole shelf of Once Upon a farm. It’s like boom, it catches your eye in there. Wow, this must be something you know. Yeah. But if we were to item two items next to you know, cut strawberries or whatever, like it would be really hard. And so that’s how that’s how it works.

Kara Goldin 24:31
Yeah, yeah. No, I think that that is absolutely true. So you’ve had a ton of success in your career, whether it’s, you know, launching this brand or Annie’s, but I’m sure there’s some challenges or even failures along the way that your best friends know about right? Or your family knows about that you were just kicking yourself. I’d love to hear one of those stories and maybe even You know what you learned about yourself or about business or you know, something that you’ve carried with you just from that learning experience.

John Foraker 25:09
So, so two things the the first company, I started at Valley kitchens, I learned a lot from that company. I honestly was over my head, I didn’t really know what I was doing. And we really struggled financially. And we managed to, like, merge our way into something that wasn’t the worst outcome for all shareholders. But I learned lots of small lessons there that every entrepreneur needs to learn about when to hire the right people, what kind of people to hire all those things. But I think one of the most important lessons that I learned about like being a leader was in the mid O’s at Annie’s, and anys was a mac and cheese business. And then we did crackers and cookies, and it was the Annie’s brand. A lot of people don’t know this. But there was a little brand out there that was founded in Vermont, earlier than us called Annie’s naturals, and it was a salad dressing business. And so we bought that business and brought it into our business because we wanted to own the trademark for Annie’s across all categories. And what was happening in the broader food space at that time was this thing called GMO foods, genetically modified foods where seeds were being altered to be able to survive having pesticides dumped on him. And GMOs really became a thing in the food supply for those that were paying attention in the late mid to late 90s. And, but in our business, we really weren’t ever. It wasn’t really on our radar. Because we bought cheese we bought we It wasn’t really in our space. But when we brought in these naturals in, it became a thing because they used a lot of canola oil. And our business was really struggling to integrate the business, we weren’t making nearly as much money as we needed to. And I was getting a lot of pressure from my board. And one of the things I was getting pressured on was cut costs, lower the quality of your ingredients. And we looked at everything, including the fact that we were buying non GMO canola oil for this Annie’s brand. And it was costing us three to $500,000, a year that we didn’t have. And I remember raising this issue in a meeting. And we had about 50 people in the company this time. And there was this employee named Andrew issue, the lower level marketing manager and she raised her hand. Everybody in that in the meeting was like, yeah, let’s get rid of that stuff. Let’s buy the cheaper stuff. And she raised her hand, and very courageously started talking about why that was a bad idea. And I remember listening to that, and kind of putting it away and saying, okay, yeah, yeah. And then she did it again and again. And each time she did it became more uncomfortable. And then I realized that she was really onto something big. And just because our consumers didn’t really know about this GMO issue didn’t mean that it was important to have a position on it. And because of her standing up, and being willing to like put herself in the breach, against a lot of pressure. We ended up not doing that, and, and we ended up not compromising. And we ended up really turning Annie’s into a real leader in GMO labeling, it turned into a major part of what this brand was about. And the lesson I took from that was, as a leader, the best, most strategic ideas can come from anywhere. So true. And you have to just you have to, and I don’t think before that I was his is in tune to that, you know, maybe I was younger, arrogant a little bit, maybe I didn’t really have the experience to know what I didn’t know. But that was a seminal thing for me, because the best ideas can come from anywhere. And then the other thing is in company culture in since then, I’ve always encouraged people to be the person that stands up and raises their hand. I’ve told that story about Andrea so many times. And I encourage people to speak their piece. And, you know, make sure that we understand it so that we can drive the business the best way but I’ve really grown as a leader from that experience. And I encourage my employees and anyone else working in any other company to stand up for what you believe in and make sure people are aware of it and hear about it because it makes a big difference. And yeah, in the art of Annie’s like when people think of Annie’s now and what it became the idea that that was what got us onto the non GMO train in terms of like understanding about it positioning around it. We were organic, obviously, which wasn’t that but but we became much bigger in that space over that idea that that almost didn’t happen if I hadn’t listened to and Yeah, it’s pretty amazing to me.

Kara Goldin 30:01
Yeah, just didn’t sharing that idea. It’s something that I always think about which I learned way back when I was working at CNN and Ted Turner was still running around the office and he was, you know, talked about as a leader, your job is to put forks in the ground. And that really, really understand where your brand needs to be going, where is your North Star, but also be open to ideas that that helped to grow the brand, and a way that, that doesn’t compromise it. And I think paying attention to the consumer to and having an understanding of where that consumer, you know, really wants the brand to stay, I think is really, really important. So I love that story. It’s really, really great. So what kind of entrepreneur or I should say, what kind of leader do you want to be known as? I mean, I think you’ve done a lot of different things. You, you’ve led companies, as a CEO, you’ve started companies, you’ve joined companies when they were really, really early, you know, what’s your legacy? What does John want to be known for?

John Foraker 31:19
The only thing that really matters to me is being remembered as somebody who cared a lot authentically about what they were working on, tried to treat everybody with respect, and tried to just build businesses that made a difference. And I think, you know, I’ve had some success I’ve had failure to like, and people oftentimes, like, especially people, I don’t know, we’ll try to lionize me a little bit and put me up on this pedestal. And honestly, I don’t want to be there. Like, like, I feel like a very normal person. And I just want to live a great life with my family. And I want to make a difference positively for the those around me that I work with, but also for the world. And that’s really all I care about.

Kara Goldin 32:10
I love it. Well, you definitely have. So best place for people to find you find the brand. Definitely try the brand once upon a farm. So where’s the best place

John Foraker 32:23
so where our websites once upon a farm And I’m on LinkedIn, find me there. I talked a lot about business and not just our business, but just things I see in the world, purpose driven companies and things like that. And I love to connect there. And you can find the same grocery stores were usually buy the yogurts, like kit, yogurt is usually where our products are, but in some places like Target or in the produce section. But yeah, please try our products and spread the word we can always use the health. We’re trying to make a big impact and grow this business.

Kara Goldin 32:57
You definitely are so well thanks so much for coming on, John. And thanks everybody for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Definitely do us a favor and send in five star ratings for John and and also subscribe to this podcast the Kara Goldin show so you were sure not to miss incredible interviews with great leaders and entrepreneurs. Like John and just a reminder I can be found on all platforms that Kara Goldin my book is called undaunted, overcoming doubts and doubters. It’s the story of my journey and building the company I founded and led hint. So definitely, hopefully, you’ll pick up a copy or download it on Audible. And we’re here every Monday, Wednesday and just added Friday as well. So thanks, everybody, for listening. Have a great rest of the week. And again, thank you, John, for sharing all of your wisdom and tidbits with us.

John Foraker 33:57
Thank you so much for having me, Kara. Appreciate it.

Kara Goldin 34:00
Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook instead. Graham Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin thanks for listening