Steven Wolfe Pereira – CEO & Co-Founder of Encantos
Kara Goldin: Hi, everybody. It’s Kara from Unstoppable. Super excited to have our next guest here today. Steven Wolfe Pereira. I had to practice that a few times before I had the guts to actually come on and say it. It’s such an awesome last name. He is-
Steven Wolfe Pereira: [Spanish 00:00:15].
Kara Goldin: Yay! CEO and co-founder of Encantos, the direct-to-consumer multicultural entertainment and education company that’s on a mission to becoming the most impactful entertainment-driven ed tech company in the world. Yay!
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Woohoo!
Kara Goldin: Steven’s an Emmy-nominated executive producer and was named by Ad Week as one of the 50 most indispensable executives in marketing, media, and tech. He’s a champion of women’s leadership and diversity initiatives, as well as STEAM education, and he’s known for his influential work in marketing media and technology. Encantos’ mission is to create a house of family entertainment educational brands and multicultural content for families and I can’t wait to have you all hear more. Only one slice against Steven. He recently moved from the Bay Area down to that other southern city, so we won’t hold it too badly against you, but we’re really excited to have you here.
Steven Wolfe Pereira: It’s all… San Francisco, LA, but I’m a born and raised New Yorker, so it’s all just California to me. I’m still figuring it out.
Kara Goldin: I love it. I love it so much. Okay, so first of all, talk about you. You’ve got an extensive background in tech, in finance, in media, from rolls at Quantcast, Neustar, and Oracle. What inspired you to direct that knowledge towards educational technology for children?
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Sure, so thanks again for having me. I’m so excited to be here. So, thanks for having me, Kara, and I’m a huge fan of yours, and I drink Hint water all day long here as I quarantine at home.
Kara Goldin: Awesome!
Steven Wolfe Pereira: And I cannot wait for your book, so-
Kara Goldin: I appreciate that.
Steven Wolfe Pereira: We’ll put that on blast. But it’s been a long, strange journey as a recovering finance person that decided to really take I guess everything that I’ve learned in the past 20 years working in technology and really kind of put it all together to create an entertainment-driven ed tech company. So, I think a lot of it really had to do with two kind of life events that happened and really put some kind of what you’re doing with your time really in focus. One was the birth of my first son, so I have two kids. [Sebastian 00:03:11] is five, and my daughter, [Sienna 00:03:13], is two and a half, so that was obviously incredibly impactful. And the other was the loss of my parents. My father passed in 2011 and my mother ended up passing in 2016. She was on the last legs of cancer and she was only able to experience my son for his first year. But those are the kind of events that really make you question how are you going to spend your time, right? Like life is short, you really want to think about your legacy, and what is going to be your contribution to the world?
And I feel that my first kind of 20-plus years in business, as I like to call it the front nine, was really spent on kind of technology, enterprise SaaS, direct-to-consumer brands, marketing, and I wanted to bring all of that into something that I’m just truly passionate about, which is I’ve always been passionate about education. And now you’re at this moment where everything is going direct to consumer. It felt like the one place that was truly just ripe for disruption was education, and it was personal, because now I had a son, and trying to think about why do you have all this incredible personalization and technology applied to advertising, eCommerce, content, but for whatever reason, education is still stuck with the past. And so, that was really the inspiration, and then do as this really interesting overlay when you look around, my family’s from the Dominican Republic. With over 50% of kids today being diverse, you really had this lack of representation in educational and entertainment. So, it really just felt that I was kind of born to help build this company and here we are.
Kara Goldin: So, obviously you’re inspired a lot by your family, your upbringing, your parents, all of these factors. But you actually went and developed products, right? I mean, like that is… It’s kind of crazy. I developed a product, as well. Coming from AOL and CNN, and service businesses, which were all great, but sort of… What was your first thing that you did? What made you kind of feel like, “Okay, I can go do this?” What inspired you?
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Well, to be honest, I think a lot of direct-to-consumer entrepreneurs inspired me. Candidly, folks like you. Look at what Warby Parker has done, look at Dollar Shave Club, look at Jen Rubio and Away. You’ve really seen this revolution happening where folks can really take control of their customer experience by going direct. And I feel that because I was working as the CMO for three different technology companies, Datalogix, which got acquired by Oracle, a public company called Neustar, which got taken private by Golden Gate Capital, and my last stint was at an AI analytics company called Quantcast, I had been working very closely with all these direct-to-consumer companies. And so, when you understand that you actually have a direct relationship with the consumer, it just was this kind of revelation that every industry, every company, every brand is going to have to go direct.
And you see it happening now. I mean, now in the times of COVID, just look at every single industry being disrupted, and if they don’t have a direct relationship with the consumer, they’re going to really be hurting. And so, I just felt that if I’ve been working with all these companies and I had this kind of direct experience up close and personal, helping them engage with audiences and understand how to use data, and really connect and engage with them, why couldn’t I do that for something that I was passionate about? And it turned out that I was able to really take all of those experiences an really with some other co-founders really build together this idea of direct-to-consumer brands that would be focused on family entertainment and education, or as we like to call it, direct-to-learner brands.
Kara Goldin: That’s awesome. And so, your first product, how’d you do that?
Steven Wolfe Pereira: So, my co-founders, it was my wife and I as one family, and then another family, a dear friend of mine, Susie Jaramillo. Susie is a Venezuelan American and her husband, who’s Colombian, Carlos Hoyos, we co-founded the company together back in 2016. And the first product was really solving a very basic need, which was there is no bilingual infant toddler brand that is culturally authentic when it comes to the Spanish-speaking market. And so, here you have two Latino families. Susie’s kids are a little bit older. They’re not ten and eight, but it was kind of crazy that you have almost 30% of the U.S. kids population being Hispanic, but there literally is nothing out there for learning two languages at the same time. And so, the first product we do a very lean development approach, where we start all of our brands with books.
And so, from books, to animated content, to ultimately a subscription app, which just launched a couple months ago, and then next year we have coming out our subscription box. But that’s the way that we kind of build all of our brands. We actually have them be both digital and physical, and we have passive and active ways to engage with the brand.
Kara Goldin: That’s amazing. And so, how many brands then do you have underneath?
Steven Wolfe Pereira: So, the goal is really, if you take a step back, we’re really inspired by 21st century skills, and this was actually watching a TED Talk that had deep, deep profound impact on me, which was Sir Ken Robinson, and he gave a TED Talk… Actually, it’s the most watched TED Talk of all time.
Kara Goldin: [inaudible 00:08:40]
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Called How Schools Kill Creativity. And it was really inspiring to hear someone talk about kind of the educational industrial complex, and why is it that you don’t actually fall into creativity. You fall out of it, because we’re all naturally creative. And that coincided with this World Economic Forum report on 21st century skills, like what do kids need [inaudible 00:09:04] not just survive, but thrive in the 21st century? And so, they described three categories. Learning skills, which was around creativity, critical thinking, communication, collaboration. Literacy skills, way beyond just basic literacy and numeracy, but bilingual literacy, environmental literacy, health and wellness literacy, and not just STEM but STEAM. And then arguably the most important, life skills. How are you going to learn how to be kind of curious and courageous? How do you learn resilience and grit? And all the social emotional skills that kids need to learn.
And these are the things that are not being taught in school, and so when you think about that kind of mix of 21st century skills, that was really where we said, “We want to build a portfolio,” very much inspired by like the P&Gs of the world, a house of family brands. And we are going to pick specific 21st century skills to build a brand, and we are going to dominate that lane. And so, the first one happened to be bilingual learning. Our new brand, Issa’s Edible Adventures, is going to be focused on food and nutrition, so very I guess-
Kara Goldin: Awesome.
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Very relevant for the things that you do, but think about how do kids learn about health and wellness? How do kids learn about the joy of cooking and the importance of food, and the science of ingredients? And also to learn about food as culture, like tomatoes don’t come from Italy. They’re actually from Mexico. Having kids learn that you have miso soup for breakfast in a place like Japan. So, really inspiring kids to learn about these different categories, and we have another rand called Tiny Travelers, which is really inspiring kids to be citizens of the world, and really help build bridges and not walls. So, we’re building up our little empire here with family brands.
Kara Goldin: I love it. I love it. So COVID, how has that kind of affected the business? Have you noticed any particular shifts in the business during this time? You were obviously perfectly set up to be a direct-to-consumer company before this all happened in comparison to so many other companies, so tell me a little bit more about that.
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Look, I’ll zoom out and kind of all joking aside, I mean this has really disproportionately impacted communities of color, as you know. Low income families, people that have health issues, so it’s really taken a toll, especially in black and brown communities. And we have plenty of friends, employees, and family members that have been impacted by it. So, it really is something that’s very serious, and you can really see the income inequality in this country and around the world, and how one group of folks are out in the Hamptons and kind of living their best life, and they’re really able to work from home, whereas essential workers that have to go into the Central Valley fields and pick strawberries, it’s a very different experience.
So, that as a backdrop, when we started the company, I probably spoke with so many different folks about entertainment-driven ed tech, and people would just look at us like, “What is ed tech? Like it’s really not interesting.” This wasn’t sexy, right? Because I feel like so many things in venture have to be sexy and on trend. But we were steadily building this business and we always believe in going direct to consumer, so the great news is we just connected directly with our audience. I mean, the same way that Hint found an audience of rabid fans and they believe in the brand, the purpose, and the product, well, we did the same thing with our first brand, Canticos, because we were really filling a need, because whether you are a Hispanic family that wants to share your culture, or a non-Hispanic family that just wants your kid to be smart because learning another language makes you smarter, we were just chugging along. And then COVID hits and all of a sudden, everyone wants to talk about ed tech because everyone is at home.
I mean, 9 out of 10 kids around the planet are stuck at home, now learning at home. And our whole approach was blended learning. You need both digital and physical. We have subscription products, but we also have subscription boxes that would complement that along with the digital products. So, that was the first thing.
The second thing is you now see the advent of every single streaming company out there looking for kids and family content. Because that is what is going to help reduce churn. So, Netflix was certainly first, but then Disney Plus came out, and now everyone is looking for some type of kids and family content across all the streamers. And then the third thing, which was really surprising, was Black Lives Matter. And then all of a sudden, everyone wants to talk about diversity. All of a sudden, black lives, brown lives, LGBTQ, all these kind of diversity issues are coming to the forefront and we have been designed to from the get go where we have diversity, equality, inclusion at the core of everything that we do. Because we are a female-owned company with diverse black and brown founders. And so, it was really interesting to see these kind of three forces come together and candidly, all of our traffic has been through the roof. Demand has been through the roof. Investors are now calling us. Business Insider just listed us as one of the hot media ed tech startups of 2020.
So, it’s just been a really interesting confluence of events within this backdrop of all this kind of pain and suffering.
Kara Goldin: Interesting. And so, it’ll be really interesting. Obviously, you’re in California, and your company is nationwide, but I think it will be very interesting as schools start, and I think more and more we’re hearing that the California schools are not going back, right? So, you’re-
Steven Wolfe Pereira: LAUSD, the second largest school district in the country, it’s all virtual, right?
Kara Goldin: Yeah.
Steven Wolfe Pereira: And so, it’s been really interesting. By design, we’ve gone direct to consumer, or again, direct to learner, and I feel like what you’re seeing now is, and Scott Galloway is talking about this incessantly, just this is going to be the true reckoning that we’ve long expected to happen in education. The only industry where you see price inflation happening over the past 40 years, but the quality of the product hasn’t improved, and it’s really just been a laggard when it comes to all of the innovation that’s happened with digital. And so, I really feel that parents are going to look to brands that are going to be trusted to help enrich and supplement the learning of their kids, and that is where we want to be. We want to be the home for 21st century skills, and our brands are culture authentic, but they’re going to have global appeal, not just national. Like, same way that Coco wasn’t just for Latinos and Black Panther wasn’t just for black people, we believe that we’re building brands that if it’s culture authentic and you appreciate it because of that, that’s great. But if it’s not, this is going to be widespread appeal because people are hungry for culture-authentic brands where they can actually learn these 21st century skills.
Kara Goldin: Absolutely. And I think too that parents, even though they had curriculum to date, I think now is the time when they’re going to be home, and they’re going to start looking at the stuff and say, “Is this relevant for my family?” Are these things that I [inaudible 00:18:22]-
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Absolutely.
Kara Goldin: …care about? Right? Is there some merge of kind of what I think is important and what Encantos is doing? So, I think this is your time, for sure, to really get out there, and I totally believe what you guys are doing. That’s awesome. Very, very-
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Well, it’s interesting, right? I mean, homeschooling, about 4% of America homes schools. I don’t think people realize these numbers. That number is expected to triple within the next 18 to 24 months.
Kara Goldin: Wow.
Steven Wolfe Pereira: And so, you’re going to see this massive kind of rethinking of how are our kids actually learning, and it goes back to that kind of original inspiration of Sir Ken Robinson. Are schools killing creativity? Are schools really teaching the right things? This obsession with standardization, and testing, and measurement, where you’re really not learning. And I feel like it’s really shining a light that there are many different ways that kids learn. You could be a visual learner. You could be an auditory learner. You might be on the spectrum somewhere. You might have dyslexia. How are those things actually really going to take advantage of digital technology, so that you could truly personalize education? We have the most advanced personalization in eCommerce and in advertising. How on Earth do we not have that in education? And that’s kind of what I’m really most interested in, so that’s what I want to dedicate the back nine too.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. No, I think that’s really super important. So, just like looking at your career, you’ve held incredible jobs at incredible companies. So, when you look back, what’s the characteristic or trait that you possessed as a child that you wish you appreciated, or still exhibited today?
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Look, I really credit one, I think part of it is the immigrant mindset. My mother came here in the ’60s, when all of the kind of upheaval was happening in the Dominican Republic. There was a dictator, and he was overthrown, so there was a lot of unrest there. And my father, I just feel like they don’t make men like this anymore, right? He was born in 1927. He played stick ball in New York. He was born in The Bronx. World War II, he was a Merchant Marine. I just feel like it’s like a different generation, so my parents were older, but I also feel that they were both artists. And because of that love for art and creativity, I didn’t have the kind of business stress. They didn’t know any better. My mom didn’t really speak English well, and so she didn’t understand anything about the U.S. educational system. So, that was very all on kind of my own that I figured out a lot of trial and probably more error.
But I feel like the thing that they nurtured me was just to be passionately curious. And I feel like that has led me to kind of try and experiment. Lots of different industries. Lots of different fields. Really just to try things and not be afraid of failure. And I feel like I didn’t know any better, because if I was told, “Oh, you can’t do that,” or, “You’re not going to look good,” or, “It’s not going to look good on a resume.” I feel like I didn’t know any better, because I didn’t have kind of that scaffolding of going to that, I don’t know, [inaudible 00:22:31] or kind of being on the path, and being told that you have to do all these steps. That just wasn’t my experience, and I feel like because I was always really passionately curious about people, places, and things, that became the connective tissue. And I can’t even begin to tell you how important it’s been for me to connect with people and have those people help me along the way at every single step of my career. That’s been the common thread. It’s been about the relationships.
And I don’t think people necessarily in their 20s or 30s appreciate how important those relationships are, but literally the woman that helped me get my first summer internship on Wall Street, Rosanna Durruthy, I am still super close with her. She’s basically my big sister. She’s now the chief diversity officer of LInkedIn, actually. But you know, this is someone that if it wasn’t for her, I wouldn’t even have a career. And so, these are the kind of relationships that you just nurture over time, but I feel like that being passionately curious was really the common thread.
Kara Goldin: That’s awesome. Yeah. No, it’s the same. I mean, part of what I, as you mentioned my booking is coming out in October, and there’s a-
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Woohoo!
Kara Goldin: More than a few pages where I talk about my parents, and they had rules, like growing up, so my dad’s rule was that all five of us kids, I was the youngest of five, we all had to be in a sport. It was like he didn’t care what sport, and like I was primarily a gymnast, and ran a lot, and did softball, but I was always trying something, and my sister was a swimmer, and my brothers played football, and baseball, and they were constantly… But my dad just really believed that sports were really, really important, and that he wouldn’t care if we didn’t do one. He was like, “Okay, go find another one.” I mean, if I would have gone to him and said, “Okay. I’m going to play frisbee and there’s this team.” He would have been, “Okay, fine. I don’t really care as long as you’re doing something.”
He really believed that there was learnings. He never articulated why, and I didn’t learn about it till later. Anyway, and then my mom, since your parents were… You were talking about them as artists, so my mom was an artist, and she was an art history major, and anyway, when she passed away 11 years ago, and when she passed away, at her funeral, actually a few kids came back and reminded me about this program that my mom did in our grade school in Scottsdale, Arizona, where I grew up. And she went in and volunteered. Whoever, whatever classrooms would take her, and of course you were horrified as her children that she was doing this, but basically she went in and taught the difference between Picasso and a Matisse. And all of these basics. And she would go in, and some teachers would say only at lunch hour you can do it, and these kids would come in and they’d learn about all these different artists, and she would talk about them, and why they were important, and what they were trying to do.
And again, as kids you might have only picked up on the little things, but people tell me still to this day that they can walk into a museum and they can see this stuff. And they know it. My mom used to say to me, I mean she’d see a house and she’d be like, “Oh, that’s an Eiger. That’s a Frank Lloyd Wright.” And I’d be like, “What? What are they?” Right?
Steven Wolfe Pereira: But you learn through osmosis, right? Like you absolutely pick it up. And by the way, I think our moms would have probably have been friends. My mother also taught art class at my grade school. I was equally embarrassed, because it’s your mom, and plus my mom had a very thick accent. Instead of Steven it was Esteven, right? So, that didn’t make it any better, but she was teaching everything from sculpture, and painting, and it’s the kind of thing where you just realize that I feel like our generation of parents, either they establish these kind of rules, but it was like freedom within a framework, and I feel like that is about lifelong learning. And in fact, that’s the thing that I’m so passionate about, which is how do you continue to inspire?
Because we are all natural learners, right? You don’t have to have… I have a two-and-a-half year old, right? I see her learning every single day, and somewhere in the transition from kindergarten, where you’re really focused on social emotional, where it’s really about learning, and kind of the whole Montessori method and those kind of things, somehow it shifts to academics. And you start to focus on testing once you’re in grade school, right? And it only gets worse, and I feel like if there’s a way that we can truly rethink this, because kids are just naturally curious, and we want to foster that. We want to tickle the brain as my co-founder, Susie would always say. And so, if we can really inspire kids to be lifelong learners, and especially now, where I think the definition of what is education, it’s really going to shift. Because if you listen to Scott Galloway, if it’s true, 40% of higher education universities and colleges are going to go out of business. I think we all need to fundamentally rethink what education means, and are we really learning the skills that are going to be important in the 21st century?
Kara Goldin: Yeah. I agree. And it’s not just I think to your point, and what Scott’s talked about, it’s not just about a package anymore. It’s not just about a brand that is going to go on your resume, right? It’s really-
Steven Wolfe Pereira: That’s what he talks about. They’re luxury brands, right? He always talks about how it’s a disservice that they tout how many kids they turn away, right? They’re, “Oh, my acceptance rate was 4%.” That’s a disservice. And so, I really feel like if we could democratize education and really focus on the things that kids need to know. Because the other thing that we’re not talking about, and two plus decades in tech taught me this, this is the AI era, Kara. You know this. Anything that can be automated will be, and so what do you do when not just blue collar jobs, we’re talking white collar jobs are going to go away. We’re about to see the greatest decade of innovation start this fall with the launch of the first 5G iPhone. It’s not going to be tomorrow, but once you really start to see 5G permeate not just in the U.S., around the world, once you actually have the internet of things take off and everything is connected, all that data feeding artificial intelligence, and then you can download 4K video in a second, this is going to be transformational what is going to happen over the next decade. And AI is going to grow exponentially.
So, I feel like all of us are at the cusp of this major evolution.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. I totally agree, and it’s a time when being in the education space I think is… Look, it’s challenging, right? And there’s a lot that’s still up in the air. But I think everything that you’re talking about, and customization around programs is really going to be top of mind. And as long too, especially this fall, I think it’ll be very, very interesting to watch, because I think parents are around, and they’re paying a little bit more attention, and they’re trying to decide-
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Well, and some parents are around, right? Because we have to go back to the income inequality, right? The parents with means are going to be around, and they’re going to do private tutors, and do learning pods, but then there’s going to be a whole swath of America that can’t afford learning pods, that their parents are working two jobs and they can’t stay home. They actually have to go, because they’re an essential worker, so they have to be in a store and wear a mask. And so, you’re going to see not just a lost school year. You’re going to see potentially a lost decade, right? The impact on communities of color, low income communities that cannot have the same means to have those learning tools and privileges, it’s going to be devastating. And this is the kind of thing where I almost feel that we’re not working fast enough at Encantos. We need to do so much more to put out our products and services, because we know that families need them. And if there’s anything we could do to alleviate that.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. [inaudible 00:30:48] And how can you get it out faster? How can you get it out to… I mean, could you get it out to the mayor’s office? Can you tell them that these programs are available? I just think that there’s so much cool stuff that is a possibility, and yeah, I think it’s… Go ahead.
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Well, you know, one of the things, part of our core, we spoke about this earlier. We’re actually designed from the ground up as a purpose-driven company, so we’re not just a B corp. We’re actually a public benefit corporation. Similar to Patagonia, similar to Kickstarter, and Etsy, and Allbirds, so we are a PBC, and that means that we don’t just have shareholders at the center, we actually think about stakeholders. So, that’s people, profit, and planet, of course. And so, when you think about this, this is really how can we, as a public service, give back to kids, parents, and educators? We have on every single one of our brands a free learning hub, where we have free videos, free activity sheets, free resources, really trying to get that into the hands of folks so they could actually have this supplement whatever they’re learning needs to be for kids at home.
You know, we now have brands, because we don’t take advertising as a part of our model, we have brands now wanting to sponsor and to help bring our subscription for Canticos and to bring that into school districts, bring it into families. It’s really interesting to see how large brands are now waking up to the importance of education, especially as their employees are now home, and their employees can’t work if their kids aren’t being taken care of.
Kara Goldin: I love it.
Steven Wolfe Pereira: So, I feel like there’s all these second and third derivative impact that folks haven’t really thought of, but your kids at home, that impacts your ability to do work. That impacts all these other things. And I think people are really realizing that education is a lot more important than we’ve all given it credit for.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. And so much possibility, and like you’re mentioning, the divide, right? And it’s not okay, and so… Wow. You’ve got my brain thinking on this stuff and I’m excited.
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Well, we’re going to have to find a way to partner with Hint, because I mean there’s no more powerful brand than Hint when it comes to obviously water, and health and wellness, and for our Issa’s Edible Adventures brand, we got to figure out a way that we can work together.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. No, let’s definitely talk more about that. That’s awesome. So, I always ask this last question. What makes you unstoppable? You’ve talked a bit about this, but also just I’d love to hear it from you, and really understand what’s next on the horizon.
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Well, I truly think that what makes me unstoppable is the values that my mother and father taught me. You could get hit 10 times, you’re going to get back up that 11th time. You just never, never, never give up. And now that I actually have a family, my wife Nuria, and my son, Sebastian and Sienna, like there is no bigger driver than for me to kind of put out these products where they could actually benefit. They are actually going to be the generation that can benefit from the things that we’re putting out into the world, and so if there’s anything that we can do, these are brands that are going to outlive us, that will stand the test of time, and for me, there’s no bigger goal. There’s no better purpose for us to make Encantos the most impactful, important, and beloved entertainment-driven ed tech company on the planet.
Kara Goldin: That’s awesome. And where do people find you? Find you and find Encantos?
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Sure, so Encantos is EncantosBrands.com. You can see all of our beloved brands there. And then for me, just follow me on Twitter, @WolfePereira, or go onto LinkedIn, because a lot of folks like to say that I’m the human LinkedIn. I love connecting with folks, and again, anything that is going to help this world wake up to the fact that we need to personalize education, that we need direct-to-learner brands, I’m here to help.
Kara Goldin: I love it. Love it. Thank you so much, Steven.
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Gracias, Kara.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. And if you guys like this podcast, please give us a great review, and definitely subscribe to Unstoppable, and for more amazing, amazing guests, we’re now… Steven, we’re up to doing this twice a week now. Mondays and Wednesdays, so-
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Love it. I’m a fan. I’m a subscriber.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. No, it’s very, very exciting, and if you guys hear, you, Steven, and anybody else, if you know of other great founders, disruptors, people who are just doing great, great stuff, let us know that as well, and we’d love to consider them to come on the podcast, as well. So, anyway, thank you so much. Have a great week. That was super, super awesome, and we’ll talk to you guys later. Thanks, everybody.
Steven Wolfe Pereira: Thank you, Kara. Thank you, everyone.
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