Tiffany Dufu – Founder of The Cru and Author of Drop the Ball

Episode 191

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Tiffany Dufu 0:00
Research shows that we’re 90% more likely to achieve a goal. If we’ve communicated that goal to another person, I am

Kara Goldin 0:06
unwilling to give up. That I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be, I want to make sure you will get knocked down, but just make sure you don’t get knocked out knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. So join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go Let’s go. Hi, everyone, its Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. And I am so excited to have my next guest here I have Tiffany du feu, who is the founder and CEO of the crew, and we’re going to talk about the crew. And as I mentioned, She is the founder and CEO. It is a membership model a peer coaching service for women looking to accelerate their personal and professional growth. And Tiffany is just amazing, amazing star. She has many many accolades under her belt, including entrepreneurs, 100, powerful women as well as fast companies League of Extraordinary women. And she’s also served in numerous leadership roles, including the chief leadership officer to believe though a millennial professional network dedicated to the advancement of young women. And Tiffany is just such a star. I also will drop into talking about her book, which I have right here called drop the ball. And as I was saying to her, before we even got on that I was quite sure that I had read it, it came out in 2017. And I finished it up this weekend, I had not read it, and boy was I happy to read it. It was so enlightening. I mean, here’s somebody who was so accomplished and, and just so tremendous, and just talking about all these things that she realized about herself and her journey. It was really, really powerful. So she’s tirelessly advocating for women in leadership and so positive. Super excited to have you here today, Tiffany.

Tiffany Dufu 2:29
Thank you, Kara. It’s a pleasure to be here. And thank you for your leadership.

Kara Goldin 2:34
Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. So I’d love to go back to the beginning. I always try and find out who was little Tiffany as a young girl like what I mean, did you know you were going to do all the things. Did you know that you were going to advocate for women’s leadership? Did you know you were going to be an entrepreneur write a book, all of these things? I mean, who was little Tiffany?

Tiffany Dufu 2:58
No, I didn’t know any of those things just 10 years ago, what are you talking about? No, I had a very joyful, happy childhood. As the daughter of a minister, I grew up in the church. My parents were from LA, originally from a neighborhood called watts in LA. And in the 1970s. It was a rough place. It was a rough time, but they knew that there had to be something other than the environment that they weren’t in. And my mom in particular, she found out she was pregnant with me when she was 19 years old. And so my dad joined the army, which is how I came to be from the Pacific Northwest. And they broke a very vicious cycle of poverty and addiction and violence in just one generation, based off of that move. And I grew up the product of what I think were probably a number of parenting books. So my parents, for example, felt that affirmations were really important. Every day, my mom would look at me, and she would say, as if it was the first time that she’d ever told me this, Tiffany, you’re so smart. You’re so beautiful, loved, and I appreciate it. Now, of course at the by the time you’re 12 or 13. It’s quite annoying. We do that every day. We do that every day. But in hindsight, I grew up with a very strong sense of myself. Everything from the fact that she pretty much let me wear whatever I wanted, which was a really big deal. And thinking about just the time and the environment that I grew up in. I remember feeling that my opinion was important, and that my feelings mattered, which a lot of kids don’t necessarily feel when they’re growing up. And so I give her a lot of credit for giving me an alternative voice in my head. So that when other voices like you can’t do this, what are you crazy that voice of doubt, I have this other counter voice. It’s like you’re smart, you’re beautiful, you’re loved, you can do this. But also just for giving me the sense of what do you mean, you’re not into what I think? Or how I feel? That’s kind of a big deal.

Kara Goldin 5:17
Did you have brothers and sisters, I’m the oldest of four girls, oldest of four, and all girls. Wow, that’s, that’s amazing. You know, it’s so interesting hearing you talk. So obviously, your dad was in the military and, and my dad was in the military way before I was born. But he had started a company in a brand inside of a large company called healthy choice and inside of conagra. And anyway, I talked about it in my book, but it’s, it’s interesting, because my mom was never the person that was highlighted as the leader that had all this impact. And yet, my mom was the one that was deciding at, you know, age 45, to go into a totally different career, which back in the 70s, was just not really done. I mean, she was an art history major. And then she just decided she wanted to go into fashion. And my dad was like, wait, what, what are you doing, but he just let her he was like, you know, happy wife happy life. And I and I think now about the impact and hearing you talk about how your mom spoke to you, and affirmations and things like that? I mean, do you think she was thinking of herself as a leader? And and yet, that was that obviously had a really powerful impact. Just hearing you remember those things and think about those things morning?

Tiffany Dufu 6:46
No, I don’t think that she thought of herself as a leader. She thought of herself as doing what was required, you know, doing what needed to be do she was absent, I believe she was absolutely a leader. She was what I call a non paid working mom. Because all moms are working while some are compensated for our labor in some art. And one of the things that’s really interesting, I loved her book, by the way. One of the things that I was really taken aback by a bond, wow, if I hadn’t had that sooner I don’t wear what I be today was just your relentlessness. And then this, this whole idea of like breaking parts of your body, like physically being harmed, and like getting up and doing the sport again, or doing the activity again, that was definitely not Tiffany, Tiffany was the one is my youngest sister will say, she’ll say, Tiffany are so boring, you never want to learn a lesson yourself. I was always very happy to sit at the foot of a mentor a sage, and to follow the roadmap and to follow the instruction manuals, and to kind of stay on the straight and narrow. And so that’s part of the reason why when you asked about did I think that I would be a writer, did I think that I would be an entrepreneur? Or did I think No, I didn’t think any of that I thought that I would do exactly what I was supposed to do, which was to go to college, become an educator, get married, have kids and like live my life into the sunset. So I so respect and appreciate that. at such an early age, you were such a risk taker. Because I think that that’s such an important part of our journeys and can accelerate it.

Kara Goldin 8:27
Yeah, well, it and part of your journey, I think is also you’re the oldest, right? So there was, you know, the pressure to actually, you know, walking the straight line so that you could show your siblings that that’s how it’s done. Right?

Tiffany Dufu 8:42
Be responsible. Be careful. The other ones Yeah,

Kara Goldin 8:46
right. I was, you know, the product of a mom and dad that were 40 when they had me, and I had the oldest parents in the block. And my parents were like, just don’t embarrass us and don’t hurt yourself too badly. And, you know, that was like and come home by 11. Like, the parties just come home by 11 and be safe. And it was I you know, was lucky that I followed you know, crazy brothers and sisters who I mean it was that it wasn’t hard to actually shine in in in that case, because it was it was they had been very naughty along the way, which I think helped me to actually be like, Oh, you’re a good kid, you know, you’re actually coming home on time. You’re doing all these things. Anyway. Yeah, it was crazy time. So you have a huge, huge interest in wanting to help advance girls and women. Where do you think that came from?

Tiffany Dufu 9:46
Well, I would say it’s probably it’s deeper than an interest Kara. It’s my life’s work. And that’s why it’s why I get up in the morning. Literally every job I’ve had every dollar I’ve ever donated. Every board I sat on every article Well, I’ve written every book I’ve contributed to or written every social media post, except for a few ones where I’m just bragging about my kids because I think their cue has been focused on this question that I have of how do we harness women and girls talent and ingenuity for the benefit of all of us? The answer to where did that come from loops back to my mom, when I was 16, my parents got divorced. And all of that, when you talk about your dad, you know, and him being the public facing leader, I had an experience in which I discovered that all of the economic, social political capital, I of course, I wouldn’t have articulated it that way at 16 that I thought was our families, I realized was just my dad’s, because he is the one who was college educated. He’s the one who worked outside of the home, he was the one who was the begin in the community, he was the one who had the awards. And unfortunately, my mom after the divorce fell back into that very vicious cycle that I mentioned of poverty, and addiction and violence with her second husband. So I spent my 20s trying to save my mom, I don’t know if you’ve ever tried to save someone in your life. But you will eventually hopefully come to the realization that it’s impossible to do that. Because each one of us is the most powerful change agent in our own journey. So I could not save her. But I am so indebted to the fact that she had enough wherewithal to give me everything that a mother could possibly give the child in those first 16 years, that every day I wake up, and I just try to get to as many women as I can to whisper in their ear. You’re so smart, you’re so beautiful. You’re so loved, you can do this. And if there are any women listening right now, that’s the that’s why I’m talking to Kara right now.

Kara Goldin 11:52
I love that. So you founded the crew, and 2018. So tell us more about your company.

Tiffany Dufu 12:00
Yes. So the crew matches circles of women who collaborate to meet their life goals. One of the things that I’ve done that’s actually probably informed most of my journey is just say yes to women who reached out to me. And Karen knows what it’s like to be at a point in your career where you get lots of requests, can I pick your brain? Can I take you to coffee? Can you mentor me? In 2011, I started saying yes to a lot of those requests. I started meeting women at 910 and 11am on Tuesdays and Thursdays because I’m obsessed with listening to our stories. And one of the observations that I’ve made over the years, there’s been many, but the one that led to the crew is observing that even though we have a lot of people around us, typically we have our family, our friends, our co workers, women largely perceive their journey, personal professional, psychologically, as a solo endeavor are not a team sport. Meaning that many of us when we have a problem, the first question we’ll ask ourselves is, how am I going to solve this problem? When the more important question that we should all be asking is who’s going to help us solve this problem, and it’s part of the reason why I encourage everyone to read, I’m daunted. And it’s part of what I posted about was that Kira new had in her energy from an early age that you’re not going to get anywhere without other people. And learning how to cultivate those relationships is really important. But the reality for a lot of really busy mid career women is that they don’t have the bandwidth to curate a small group of people who can hold you accountable for your success. Research shows that we’re 90% more likely to achieve a goal, if we’ve communicated that goal to another person. And if we have regular interventions with those people, it’s the same reason why something like Weight Watchers works or why they works. Sure. And so I decided that I’m given that so many women didn’t have these peer groups, and that I personally have benefited from a crew, I have a group of women who I be with on a regular basis, and they hold me accountable to my ambitions, that I would launch a tech platform to support women in doing that. So the way that the crew works is that you apply to become a member of the crew. And our algorithm matches you with seven other women in your time zone. You decide what you want your goals to be, you upload them into a digital tracking tool, and your crew holds you accountable digitally, and through monthly events that we call gatherings where you each go around and then hold one another accountable. So it’s just a way to help us each focus on ourselves and have a group of people who care about us but are more objective and are invested in our decision making the way our friends or family or coworkers might be just just another nudge of support to help you on your journey.

Kara Goldin 14:59
I love it. So The goal is really to remind you of these goals, do they actually give advice as well along the way I, I asked this because I’m part of this organization called YPO. And I know that YPO for years has been really about don’t give advice, really hold the goal. Because, for example, if somebody gives you advice, and you don’t take their advice, then that may create this animosity, right? Like I told her what to do. And then she didn’t go do it. And so why am I sitting here? So I’m curious, because I’ve always felt like there was a little bit of that was good that they don’t give advice. But then also, I feel like sometimes people do need some direction. But is there a commitment? Like when people are giving this direction that you need to take it? Do you know what I mean, or just rough the group in some way, I’d love to hear your opinion on it.

Tiffany Dufu 16:03
I know exactly what you mean. So you can think of I love that you mentioned YPO. So think of the crew is YPO for the masses, okay, there’s for the people who have never heard of YPO, you know, couldn’t necessarily be a part of YPO. But it’s for the, the YPO for every woman. And we do use a pure inquiry based model of coaching. But YPO also originates and starts with a coaching model, meaning that if you want to help someone, one of the most important things that you can do is keep them at the center of the experience that you’re trying to guide them through. Okay, what happens when we’re giving advice, and it’s a wonderful, intentional thing that we do is we feel empathy towards someone, this happens all the time. When you feel empathy, I’m not sure if total jerk, you do something that we were taught to do in kindergarten, which is you imagine putting yourself in someone else’s shoes? Well, when you put yourself in someone else’s shoes, you think, well, what would I do if I was in that situation? or What did I do when I was in that situation? And then you proceed to tell that person about yourself, unbeknownst to you, you’ve now made, what they’re dealing with and their experience about you. So it is true Kara, that in the crew, we encourage our members to start a crew coaching session with questions, not with the device for that very reason. We encourage open ended questions, we have a set of them that’s in a document that we call the crew playbook. And their questions like, so what have you done so far? To realize this goal? You know, you’d be surprised how many of us are stressed about goals, we haven’t moved forward, but we’ve actually done nothing to move them forward. And who else should be involved? What would happen if you asked for exactly what you wanted? And one of the most important questions is, what are you going to do between now and the next time we see you what what action Are you going to take to try to get the person to commit? And then finally, the last question speaks to the advice, which is, Do you need anything from us? Is there anything that we can do to support you? To which if the person says, Yes, has anybody else written a book, or Has anyone else had to try to figure out how to get their customer acquisition cost lower, or if anybody, then that is the appropriate time after the advice has been solicited for you to weigh in. And I’m sure that’s probably the case with YPO is they’re trying to prevent people from giving unsolicited advice that really is about them, and not the person that they’re trying to support.

Kara Goldin 18:43
Totally, and it is the right thing. I mean, I was, you know, in a group for years, and once you kind of get the hang of it, it’s interesting, because they found that when people sort of accidentally slipped into that of giving advice, and if you if the recipient didn’t take that advice, and go do something, the group starts to break down. And so there has to be an accountability, which I thought was really fascinating. And once you get into it and sort of see the method, which is sounds like you guys are very, very similar in that in that sense that it really, really works. And I love the end of you know, asking people offering up, what can we do to help you because I think so often people don’t want to ask, right, they don’t they feel and which i think that that’s what the crew does, too, which is amazing. So these were all groups and in person prior to the pandemic, or how did you set them up? Yes,

Tiffany Dufu 19:43
yes. So I was one of those very stubborn founders with the hypothesis that I felt, you know, we had to stick with which was the importance of being in person and that real meaningful human relationships had happened in person so we initially matched crews In specific markets, of course, one of the challenges from the very beginning is that we ended up with a lot of women applying to the crew in markets where we didn’t have a critical mass of other applicants. And those women basically sat on a waiting list for a very long time, when COVID hit, we had no other choice. But to move to a virtual model. I had existing crews that needed to hop on a virtual platform. We had new crews, we were onboarding they needed to hop on. And that allowed me to do something I had not had the opportunity to do before, which is why this entrepreneurship ride is so incredible, which is to be in a lot of gatherings. Because remember, if they’re happening in person, and it’s happening in San Francisco, when I’m in New York, I can’t be there. Sure. But if we’re using zoom, all of a sudden, I can be in a lot of gatherings. So I spent march of 2020, April of 2020, basically in gatherings every night, on the weekends, and I learned a lot about the crew and about the model, then one of the things I learned was that we had created a lot of friction for really busy women by requiring people to meet in person. I noticed on zoom that women were nursing babies during a gathering that they would have had to get babysitters for, I noticed that the attendance went up, no one was waiting in traffic, no one had to schedule, you know their time in a different way. I noticed that those questions, those inquiry based questions, all of a sudden, you weren’t looking down, you know, or if you had forgotten your crew playbook. It was okay because they could just post those in the chat. I noticed that the timekeeper so we manage personalities of the crew by using a timekeeper to ensure that everyone kind of opens and ends at a certain cadence and time. And usually if you’re in person, only one person, the timekeeper knows how much time is left. And so that person kind of has to jump in and interrupt and say, Hey, everybody, we’ve got five minutes left for this session. Well, all of a sudden in zoom, the timekeeper was empowered to post into the chat. Hey, everybody, we’ve got eight minutes left, we’ve got five minutes left. And so what allowed the group the crew to collectively really support this person in a more meaningful way. So I learned that I was wrong, you can actually support people virtually, that for certainly our demographic of really busy women that they value, not having to be stuck in traffic, and connecting because remember that these aren’t your best friends. So that accountability circle that you’re meeting with once a month. But I think the biggest thing for me that I’m so happy for at least, the crisis of being a catalyst for change is that we were able to open up the platform our tagline is, every woman needs one, it’s the crew, every woman needs one. And yet wherever you lived made a difference. And that no longer became the case we started matching women by timezone instead of city and now it doesn’t matter where you are in the continental US you can apply to the crew and we can get you matched on board and

Kara Goldin 23:11
I love it so obviously women during this time left the workforce and in droves as I you know, I’ve said over and over again they didn’t choose to leave for us right it was it was definitely a you know, this is what I’ve got to do and especially if you had kids I mean people were you know forced to deal with with online school and caring for children and oftentimes men were making more money. So if they had one of those in the house and and so it was definitely a you know, an obvious thing that many people ended up staying home. What do you think is the key thing that people in the crew are thinking about today as they think about what do they do next?

Tiffany Dufu 23:59
Yes, absolutely. Why can tell you exactly. Because remember, the whole point of the crew is to realize your life intentions to make progress on your goals. And right now those top goals include under career, earning up promotion, or figuring out what the transition is back into the workforce or into entrepreneurship. So a lot of those women said I have to leave but I need the flexibility maybe I’m going to start my own thing. Or they are looking to earn more money so they’re looking for a salary increase. under there, kind of personal health and wellness there is finding an exercise routine and sticking with it. It’s one of the top goals outside number two as followed by starting a meditation practice number three is starting a yoga practice. Under family personal relationships. The top goal is being present with my kids, which I think is fascinating because the pandemic created The situation where we were all under one roof. And yet, it created a situation in which you felt like you were not as present with them, you know, when you all got up and you all went to school and you all went to work, you were doing your thing. And then when you came back together, you could be present. Whereas now that everyone’s under one roof, you feel like you’re not able to spend the time with them that you wish. Unfortunately, navigating divorce or separation is another top goal. So these are the things that members of the crew are dealing with. And it was such a, the one thing our culture is still very similar. I mean, the one thing that didn’t change was that women disproportionately bear the responsibility of caregiving. And of household responsibilities. What happened was that the scaffolding that a lot of women had in place to do that to outsource that, quite frankly, usually to other women fell apart in the midst of COVID. So it wasn’t as if women had more responsibility. Women have always had that responsibility. It’s just that we can outsource part of it, we can and then when COVID happened, all of a sudden, we physically had to do all of it. And it became too much for a lot of families.

Kara Goldin 26:19
Yeah, definitely I feel for for many women out there, I’ve been through a lot but as I said to, I say to my team, as well, as you know, people in interviews, that’s one thing that I had never been through my youngest is now 16. So you know, you were he was kind of on his own right at that, not on his own, but you know what I mean? Like he was able he was in the groove, but God watching many of our employees deal with, you know, three and four year olds and six year olds, and you know, it’s tough, and it’s really hard. And it’s hard to, you know, focus on, you know, focusing on goals for your work, and then trying to have some kind of sanity and then having a break. I mean, it’s, it’s a lot. And so I bet those conversations are coming up in these groups as well. So I, I, I love that you’re thinking about it and talking about it, because I think it’s something really, really important that we all need to focus a little bit more on and absolutely, absolutely, so. Okay, so drop the ball. As I mentioned, your book came out in 2017. Yay. With Tiffany’s beautiful picture on the cover her, we were just talking about her first edition did not have the picture on it. And I don’t know why. Because her She’s so beautiful. And it’s so nice. And the foreword was by Gloria Steinem, too, which is so awesome on so many levels. So talk to me a little bit about it about the book. So why the title dropped the ball.

Tiffany Dufu 27:56
Yes, I wrote a book called drop the ball. Because I used to be someone who was terrified of ever dropping a ball. I used to think that it was a terrible thing to do. It meant that I was failing to take timely action that I was irresponsible, that I was disappointing people in my family and my community, it sounds dramatic, but as an African American woman, that I would be disappointing the entire black race as in, if I mess this up, they’re never gonna hire a black person again. And so I came to a point in my life, where I was no longer able to keep all the balls beautifully in the air. You know, if you’ve got enough of an A type personality, and you’ve got enough of a support, you can, you can keep going. My drop the ball moment was the birth of my first child. That’s when things fell apart for me. But in those conversations that I mentioned with women, Kara, it could be anything, it could be that you finally got the promotion and discovered that it’s a lot harder to be the boss, when you weren’t the boss, it could be a diagnosis. It could be that you’ve got to take care of a family member who’s become ill or was incapacitated. It could be a viral pandemic, and economic recession that causes you to come to a point in your life where you can’t keep all the balls in the air. And my I call them Tiffany’s. Tiffany’s. Some people call them aha moments came when all the balls were on the floor. And yet Armageddon never hit. Meaning all the things I was always paranoid what happened. If I ever dropped the ball, they didn’t. They didn’t materialize meaning no one ever called to say I don’t love you anymore. I don’t like you or you’re not my friend because I didn’t respond to their text message fast enough or I missed the party. My boss didn’t fire me. I never had the police come and read me my Miranda rights which I always thought what happened if I didn’t pay all of those alternate parking tickets that I would get from those orange citations that file I can tell I live in New York City. I don’t Know how many of those things you get before they come into rescue. But it’s a lot, a lot. Yeah. And they don’t, they don’t actually come. And so I decided to reappropriate the term because I realized that what I really needed to drop was this unrealistic expectation that I should be doing at all to begin with. And the book is really about how I, but how I think all of us can get clear about what matters most to us, as opposed to advertisers and all of the other external pressures that we feel, how we can figure out what our highest and best uses to achieving what matters most. So we’re not just saying yes to everything that comes over the fence. And then finally, how we engage other people in our lives drop the ball is a bit of a romantic comedy, about how I got my husband off the couch, because I wanted people to finish it. And I had to, you know, there had to be a little bit of drama and intrigue there. So he was the person that I chose to really focus on, you know, that relationship, but how do you engage your boss how to engage your kids? How do you engage anybody in your life so that you can live your purpose and so that they can do?

Kara Goldin 31:11
I love it. But I think the key thing that I got out of the book was it starts with you, right? And it starts with figuring out like, What do you need? And what are you doing that is limiting you from actually being able to do that. So I I really, I really, really loved it and it’s it’s spurred a lot of thoughts, not only for myself, but also for for my kids, too. How do you think your kids have? I mean, I feel like you’re you’re really conscious about doing some things different way. And how do you think your own kids have have learned from maybe your mistakes, but I mean, maybe your realizations and and your epiphany is your Tiffany epiphany,

Tiffany Dufu 31:55
my Tiffany’s epiphany as well, for one day hold me accountable, right? For me, dropping the ball today was the first day of school. And you know, my son’s got to get the bus and he’s in the 10th grade. And I think I was probably micromanaging a bit too much. And you know, he’s like, Mom, drop the ball, drop the ball, Mom, I’m in the 10th grade, I will get to the bus on time. I love Okay, great. So that’s one way. But the other way is, I think part of what I call in the book delegating with joy is really engaging other people in our expectations of ourselves. So one of the things that I do now is every six or seven months, I asked my kids, can you have a meeting, there’s two of them amongst yourselves, and then come back and tell me the top three things that you feel like you need from me in order for you to feel like I’m being a good mom. Because we often have a lot in our minds about what we need to do to be a good mom, a good wife, a good worker, manager, that founder and CEO, you know, whatever it is, but stopping to ask other people, I certainly have been engaging my kids in that process is really important. And so they hopefully have learned how to do that for themselves, right? I’m overwhelmed with this history class. Okay, well have a conversation with the teacher about what exactly do they need from you? Right? What are they expecting from you so that you can bring your level of anxiety down, but also feel like you can deliver for yourself and for everyone around you? I hope. I mean, this is me talking you should talk to them that there should be a podcast for all the kids of the people that are beginning these podcasts to find out because this is me telling the truth.

Kara Goldin 33:38
I love it. No, that’s so great. So the crew, how do people find out more about the crew and joining the crew? Yes, they

Tiffany Dufu 33:46
can go to the crew COMM And it’s spelled si r Because CRA w was taken and I was trying to be creative. Go to the they can apply they can find us on any social media outlet that with those handle that handle as well.

Kara Goldin 34:03
Yeah, and you can just see your community on your social platforms. I mean, definitely following and and engaged which is, I think a great sign of any organization and business it’s it’s a it’s definitely clear so and drop the ball. Everybody should pick this book up. It’s so good. And also the Tiffany’s. Tiffany’s. Tiffany’s videos are on YouTube. I had a look at those two. That’s lots of fun. So very, very cool stuff going on with Tiffany and overall, for people to follow you on social. Do you want to tell people the best way?

Tiffany Dufu 34:42
Yes, I’m at TDU su on every platform.

Kara Goldin 34:49
td ufcu I love is so great. Well, thank you so much, Tiffany, for sharing your incredible insights and knowledge and for letting us get to know you even more. So Great and hear more about the crew and your book and just all these amazing thoughts. It’s just feel so fortunate to have you on today. And I really, really feel like this is just a great example of just another Trailblazer out there that is just doing amazing stuff to enable others to go out and be who they should be right and who they can, can, you know, realize along the way that it doesn’t, you don’t have to stop when you’re 21 years old and decide what you’re going to be when you grow up. Right You can definitely reinvent yourself and and the crew and everybody who’s involved in that I think has really talked about it in that way. So thanks, everyone for listening. We are here every Monday and Wednesday at the Kara Goldin show. Please give this episode five stars. subscribe to the podcast as well and come visit me on my social platforms at Kara Goldin with an eye and hopefully if you haven’t had a chance to get the book, my book undaunted, overcoming doubts and doubters. And also, it’s available on Audible too. I hope you’ll get a chance to read it. And of course, if you haven’t tried hint, please pick up case of that and your local stores or online on Amazon as well. And thanks everyone have a great rest of the week. Thanks again, Tiffany.

Tiffany Dufu 36:29
Thank you. I was drinking my head. Yeah. Thanks, everyone.

Kara Goldin 36:34
before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book calm and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin thanks for listening