Helena Kaylin: Founder & CEO of MINDD Inc

Episode 373

Helena Kaylin, Founder and CEO of the lingerie brand MINDD, launched her incredible brand with one consumer in mind – the D+ cup size woman. As a seasoned lingerie executive, she had worked with some of the most recognizable iconic lingerie brands in the industry but saw a hole in the selection of product that she knew she could fill. MINDD, the digitally native, DTC company creates technically advanced, size inclusive, performance sports-bras, everyday bras and intimate apparel. We discuss her journey and the brand. So much inspiration in this conversation. Next on this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow.

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. It’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show and I am so excited to have my next guest. Here we have Helena Kaylin, who is the founder and CEO of MINDD. And if you have not heard about MINDD, you need to definitely definitely listen to this show and learn more about this incredible, incredible brand. So as I mentioned, Helena is the founder and CEO of the lingerie brand. I’ll give you a little hint on that one. And she launched this brand with one consumer in MINDD, the d plus cup size woman. And I want to acknowledge that there are many d plus cup size women out there. So for maybe any men listening, yes, it’s possible, it doesn’t mean that you are a massive, massive chest size not to embarrass anyone who’s listening. But it’s definitely a large percentage of women. So as a seasoned lingerie executive, she had worked with some of the most recognizable iconic lingerie brands in the industry. But she saw a hole in the selection of products that she knew she could fill. So MINDD the digitally native DTC company creates technically advanced size, inclusive performance sports bras, everyday bras, and intimate apparel. And I’m excited to hear more about her Helena’s journey and more about the brand MINDD and all of that. So welcome Helena, how are you?

Helena Kaylin 2:15
Okay, Kara, thank you so much for having me. It’s so fun to talk to you and learn from you and just be here with you. So thank you.

Kara Goldin 2:23
Absolutely. Well, I’m really, really excited. And the product is so great. And I should also mention that you are not just for D plus cup size. So pretty much anybody can wear your product. But you really saw this whole, as I mentioned in the market for people who are really focused on on bat or really supplying incredible product for people who really need product to fit them who are that size, I should say? So can you give a little bit about the brand story first, or what is MINDD, I should say first

Helena Kaylin 2:59
MINDD, MINDD for me is like really, you know, it’s a love letter to women who are d plus cup and higher. And I really appreciate the fact that you acknowledge that it’s not just a plus size consumer, you know, there are women who are assigned zero who could be in t plus or higher. And I think society we you know, have a perception of what that looks like. And so we support women who are, you know, a dress size zero all the way up to a size 22. And the whole premise of MINDD is why why I started the company was I was a frustrated consumer, I actually thought I was at 34 B up until I was 29 years old. And learned that I was like a double D and was shocked. I always say I was in denial. Like I was like there’s no way I’m like, There’s no way. And I was and I was and from that moment that I learned that I was there was just not any offering and stores. I walked through Herald Square at Victoria’s Secret who I was working for at the time, and I’m like, Hang on one second, I’ve been wearing uncomfortable bras like fitting myself into a B cup. And I just was on a mission to create something that thought about the d plus customer first. But we do support women who are beam all the way up to an H cup and just saw a huge opportunity in the market to support women who have struggled like me.

Kara Goldin 4:23
Definitely. I mean, it’s it’s definitely it’s so frustrating when you’re a certain size too. And you’d like maybe the patterns and the colors and the style but then they don’t have your size and I can only imagine if you’re actually working with some of these companies and you’re still not seeing that they’re actually creating what you want so so how did you come up with the idea that I mean, you knew that there was this need but you did a lot to actually create a product that is MINDD today. So how did you come up with this product?

Helena Kaylin 5:02
So I, I am so grateful for all of the experiences I’ve had throughout my career. So I, when I started with Victoria’s Secret, it was our newly formed r&d research and development group that was focused on being best abroad. And apart from going out, and bra shopping, I didn’t know anything about materials, construction, nothing. So I took those three years and had this, you know, this team of material scientists and fit technicians, and we literally traveled the worlds. And I grew up in factories, like watching how bras are made innovating with like, you know, future innovators of bonding techniques, and all of this crazy stuff that I was like, my world was like, you know, blown that there was just so much technology that goes behind abroad. And and so from that point on, I was like, Okay, let’s be really curious about how can we take this material and introduce it in this new way. And when I was at Calvin Klein, it really sparked the idea first, because what you’ve just said, you know, I’m seeing all these beautiful lacy triangle bras that I’m like, I would die to wear those. And I remember my designer saying, like, that the most fabulous French designers like who knew everything about French laces and just incredible, they’d be like Halina, it is impossible, we cannot make a bra like lace bra for for D plus. And I was just like, to be away. And wires for me are always really, really uncomfortable. And I had just started wearing sports bras for like everyday wear, because I just couldn’t comfortably get into anything. And so over the course of the 15 years, I would just like take things that I would see on these trips and kind of put them in my toolkit. And when it came time, when I had my aha moment, it was like, if I take this and this and put it together, I think I could really come up with like my dream bra. And that’s what I did. And I just started prototyping and and a couple years later, here we go.

Kara Goldin 7:13
Amazing. So you started the company with this idea. And in 2018, right, is that when you officially established your first product. And so finding kind of the, the right fit for a bra was really sort of the beginnings, but you’ve obviously, ly expanded since then into many other products, and you have underwear, all different varieties as well, that are just super, super nice. So did you know that you’re going to become an entrepreneur? I mean, was that always the plan? Or, like, where did this come from?

Helena Kaylin 7:59
I think in my, like, in my heart, like ever since I was a kid, I was just like, I want to run my own business, like I was, you know, I had a paper route. You know, it’s like, those typical stories, like when I was 12 years old, I had like a 30, you know, house paper route that eventually grew to like 250. And I hired my brother and sister to help like support like, you know, this growing paper wrote empire. Like, yeah, when I was in Canada, and just works, like, I just had a really strong work ethic. And I just always wanted to start something of my own. And so this was like, one of the it was like the angel and the devil on the on your shoulders. It’s like, okay, I just I need to do this. And the idea wouldn’t go away. And for years and years or years, and I’m just like, Okay, I have to quiet the noise and really go after this. Like, I don’t want to be 80 years old and look back and say, Okay, I didn’t try, you know, so,

Kara Goldin 8:50
no, I think that’s, that’s so so key. But it’s also scary. I mean, to go and launch a company, like, you know, as you and I were briefly touching on, I mean, it’s just, you know, there’s so many elements of starting a company that you just don’t even think about, you just want to create a great bra, right? Initially, and then everyone wants you to create more than a bra. And then you actually have to pay for inventory upfront. And you know, all these little things. And as you and I were discussing, Steve, that Steve Jobs line, and you have to buy a coffee maker and like there’s all these things that you have to do. So, I mean, is it everything you thought it was gonna be? Or are there lots of little details that you have to figure out?

Helena Kaylin 9:36
I mean, there’s a lot of details you have to figure out. I mean, the fulfillment side is everything that I hoped it would be right the you know, the stories from customers when they email me and they’re just that, that they’ve found something that they’ve been searching for their whole life or that brought them a level of comfort and confidence that they never expected like that. Those stories like those are the things that keep me going every single day. And yeah, you know, we kind of slid in the office. Yeah, with all the rain in California and I’m like, Okay, who do I call? Or, you know, just like, yeah, buying the coffee pods, like we only have decaf left. And you know, you can’t run, you can’t run on decaf. Like, there’s just little things that, that show up on a daily basis that you don’t predict. And, and you just got it, you’re always wearing a million different hats, and you just got to just kind of navigate go with the flow every day.

Kara Goldin 10:29
Yeah, definitely well, and also, when you’re creating your own brand, and company, I mean, you’ve worked for larger brands, but you weren’t picking and packing, you didn’t probably get all the customer emails that came in, maybe once in a while you did but you were not seeing, you know, the one on one interactions and the things that we’re really needing in order to pick and pack a box, etc. So, you know, it’s definitely it’s a whole new world out there for sure. So you’d led various broad developments at Calvin Klein underwear, Under Armour Uniqlo Lululemon, before launching MINDD in 2018, what’s been like, the biggest frustration that you feel like, if I could just do this, like, I’d be able to scale that much more. I think

Helena Kaylin 11:22
it’s, you know, what we were talking about team, you know, fundraising, and had this, this proof of, you know, the proof of concept, and you have this like, voracious, you know, loyal customer and, and I think we’re operating in a market right now, that is just, you know, it’s it’s variable. And, you know, and it’s, it’s a little bit risk averse, and you know, where things gonna go and, and so fundraising is, is always, it’s a full time job for a founder, and I didn’t realize how much of a full time job it would be now, and I love creating new things. And so taking that on, it’s like, oh, gosh, I wish it was I wish it were easier. Yeah. No, you got it, you got to do it yourself. So that piece of it is, is oh, gosh, it is an every day.

Kara Goldin 12:14
Yeah. Well, and especially when you’re just getting into stores, and you’re a first time founder, right? I mean, you’ve it kind of, you know, you’ve done a lot of incredible things. But it’s, it’s almost like you go back to square one when you’re a founder too, right? It’s like, you know, being able to scale from zero, it doesn’t matter that you worked for billion dollar brands, right? It’s, it’s like you’ve got to actually learn how to start way down there in order to do that with almost no money, right and working all the time. So yeah, I get it. It’s, it’s really super challenging. But so the MINDD bra is designed with a netting structure that grows and contracts as a woman’s body does while providing support and fit, of course, wonderfully, it has to otherwise. It’s a it’s a no go. You have a patent pending design, which is so cool. Based on seven zones of support, can you talk to me a little bit about that? Like, what what are the seven zones of support? I’ve never heard that before.

Helena Kaylin 13:23
Oh, totally. So the Bravo Jaime. So this is like our iconic like, tried and true, you know, not a sexy name, just call it the mid V brava the, the internet, the internal lace of the cup is what is the secret sauce, and I really wanted to, you know, bring elements of beauty and comfort together. So they’ve never, you know, lace is traditionally something that’s really scratchy. Like, can be can hurt your skin and a lot of people are very sensitive and so was like, How can we take lace and modernize it in a way that is beautiful, but also functional. And so that our patent pending technology is this integration between this lathe zone and pickup and the seven zones are various zones that create support structure, and like compression in all the places that you need that take away the need for a wire. So there’s seven zones underneath the bus and on the side to get some compression on the side support under the bus and it kind of gives the bra of feeling like almost like a supernatural feeling like it’s not a push up bra so it’s not gonna you know, lifted up to your chin but you can like you know, comfortably just live in this broad fall asleep in it. I have emails from customers that like oh my god, I’ve been wearing the bra for for two days I like fell asleep in it and I had to start my net my 12 hour shift so I just you know God changed or whatever and but, but the technology is really in this the between the lace zone and the support zones underneath the cop that just it’s like magic. uh that’s super,

Kara Goldin 15:02
super great. And, and you don’t just do bras either. So you have incredible underwear, undergarments, or whatever, they’re whatever the official name is bikinis briefs, whatever, in all different, amazing styles. So how did you come up with these different styles?

Helena Kaylin 15:25
So I think just, you know, looking at what’s out in the marketplace, you know, what do I want to do? Or what do I want to wear? I constantly do focus groups. So I tap into friends and family and friends and friends and connect with groups of people. And before I officially launched the product up to the market, I did 10 focus groups across the United States, bringing women together to talk about their frustrations, what would they want to wear, how, like, 100 they want their underwear to feel or their broader feel, and so kept it really democratic, you know, a great thong and a great, you know, brief and then we, you know, get those, right and get the materials, right, and, because I believe like, for me, when I find something I love, I want it I want to go back, and I want to order every single color, you know, and Motorola and I get frustrated when when brands are just like okay, like a once and done and then the next year you come back you’re like, but I loved it, it was so comfortable, it was the best. And so wanted to create something that was core to the assortment really comfortable, really focused on the best yarns and knit construction. So we launched with the thong and a brief and then extended it into you know, creating functional underwear. So like smoothing briefs, and thongs, which you can find on Victoria’s Secret. And then also body suits, because I live in a body suit all year round, like under my sweaters and, and having something that supports and Mochica something that I don’t have to wear a bra with that just is comfortable, you can put it on forget about it. So and then our next foray is into we’re launching swimwear in a few weeks. So you know, just little baby steps, but our correspondent is always, you know, hyper focused on getting the best bra to that woman.

Kara Goldin 17:12
That’s, that’s super, super great. So what do you think is the hottest trends right now, if you had to talk about, you know, the, it probably varies by demographic though, too, right? I mean, you have a core kind of customer that you’re seeing that’s coming into your site now versus like, I would think Victoria’s Secret is younger than Lululemon. Yeah, very, very different. But I’m curious what you would say to that in terms of the kind of what are the trends that are out there right now.

Helena Kaylin 17:47
Gosh, you know, we’re, I love fashion. So I, you know, like, I was looking at the runway, one of the things that we were noticing, you know, my, the person, the woman who helps with social, you know, we’re seeing a lot of, you know, women just being so confident so you know, freeing the nipple as you as you would say, and just not not being so concerned about having so much padding in their bra. So one of the things that I love is like, you know, they’re not worried about nipple concealment, so but just like a level of confidence that this woman has, where she’s just like, I don’t need to have all this padding with my bra. I want to you know, feel just comfortable in myself. And so we’re seeing that as a really positive trend. I think size inclusive size inclusivity continues to be like a predominant conversation which I’m so happy that our brand supports that. That we are a place that women who if you are a size 18 to 22 can come to our site and find something that will fit in as comfortable for you. And then communicating the size inclusivity is a spectrum between you know, from you know, double zero all the way up to you know, 22 and beyond so, so I think those are some of the great the great trends that are that are happening and I’m just happy to see that women and the world is getting back out again. So they’re totally getting dressed up and having you know, a little peekaboo lace underneath your your top and so yeah,

Kara Goldin 19:18
what is color a big?

Helena Kaylin 19:23
Yeah, color colors massive. So we have a color coming out. Called spritz. So I love a good Aperol Spritz or bras are actually manufactured. We make our bras in Italy and that’s where the technology is from. So my first trip to the factory back in 2018. I was like, I need to make a bra this color. So we actually have a color that is very reminiscent of an Aperol Spritz coming out but which I’m excited about in a couple of weeks colors like I love

Kara Goldin 19:55
that’s That’s so great. So what’s the one thing that’s really surprised you since start in MINDD

Helena Kaylin 20:04
how, you know, I, the thing that’s really surprised me is our customers truly, like, how loyal this woman is, and how much love she and support she wants to give back to me as like, the founder of this company, and the person who invented this technology, like, just the gratitude that they expressed. Like, I didn’t expect it. And I know I talked about about it a little bit before, but you know, it’s more than just a transaction, right? And so it’s, it’s like we we have, you know, we’ve found a pocket of customers, and it’s like, okay, how can we scale that? How can we create this community of women who can support each other, you know, by having a product that just makes them feel good, like, that has just blown my MINDD and something that, you know, I was hopeful for, but I never put on a deck on a slide. It’s just something that’s come back to me that I’m just so so on a daily basis, just like, oh, gosh, wow, it helps like, fuel the purpose of why we’re doing it. Right. So

Kara Goldin 21:08
have you met a lot of other entrepreneurs that are first time entrepreneurs out there?

Helena Kaylin 21:14
Yeah, I have actually one of the cool things, you know, there’s so many great, like, founders networks out there. And LinkedIn is, you know, one of the best, but in Los Angeles, the decision to move down here was a lot of it based on you know, creating a community of entrepreneurs and, you know, people that you can, like, lean on and rely on, and it’s a lonely road, some days, towed away. Most days. And so there’s a couple of first time founders that we have, like a really, you know, tight network with and a woman that I met last year on a panel, she’s out in Austin, Texas, and so she’s like, my daily column, like, Okay, can you tell me if I’m thinking about this, right, and some of those just like, back and forth, like conversations are so, so good, so valuable for them?

Kara Goldin 22:02
They know, it’s so valuable. And I think it’s, it’s, uh, you know, you don’t even realize how many questions you have along the way, as you start talking to the and meeting these founders. And it really doesn’t even matter what industry they’re in. Because sometimes, they can be helpful, sometimes they can’t, but just hearing their stories, I think it’s something that I’ve just found along the way are just, they’re going through their own things that seem messy and, and I’ve been able to, you know, get a lot of energy, if nothing else out of kind of their experiences and the way that they’re able to get through those things to you. Well,

Helena Kaylin 22:41
it’s so cool, you know, meaning you, and, like entrepreneurs who make a, you know, a physical product or consumable products. Now, there’s a lot of technology founders, and, and, you know, for me, it’s, it’s a little harder to relate to, so I’m like, Okay, well, what is the product and I love, like, touching and feeling something or consuming something that that can, you know, change someone’s life. And so with that, those are the, the founders that I feel like I gravitate most to is like, putting it out into the world. It’s like, you put your baby out there and see how people respond to it. So it’s cool to see the founder, like, you create something that it’s like, oh my god, of course, like no brainer, and, and just be just so inspired by it.

Kara Goldin 23:30
Thank you. Well, that’s really nice. And I feel the same way. So meeting founders, and it’s, I know how hard it is, and it’s inspiring still to me to meet people who are doing it and, and are creating and disrupting and all of those things. So when How did you get the word out about MINDD?

Helena Kaylin 23:52
So I think my experience really helped it from my background standpoint, you know, I’m, I’m one of those founders, I founded my company at 44. And so had this, like, long tenured career and being able to call up, you know, Women’s Wear Daily, and just be like, Oh, hey, you know, I’m launching this company, here’s my background. And so that’s been really helpful and just leaning into those networks. So Women’s Wear Daily actually did a feature on us when we, when we did formally launch, which was incredible. And then a writer at Forbes picked that up. And so it’s been, it’s always, you know, it’s like, this one opens up this door that opens up this door, and maybe that door closes when another one opens. And we also COVID was good to us. We I was terrified, because we didn’t know what would happen but we had a very like focused attentive audience that was shopping online. And we just started putting ads out so that really kind of elevated and got the word out to a lot of women too. So

Kara Goldin 24:58
So ads like what kind of ads ads, where you’re doing,

Helena Kaylin 25:01
like Instagram or Facebook and just getting on, you know, getting onto like our Facebook platform and and so we put, you know, few paid ads out there and to see what they would do and but press has been the best, like organic press has always it’s, it’s been the best thing for us.

Kara Goldin 25:21
That’s great. No, I love hearing that. So being an entrepreneur is definitely not for the faint of heart, and probably one of the more challenging jobs out there. Lots of nose along the way, and you have to just get back up and figure out a way. And if somebody says no, what can you do? Instead, I think is a common theme amongst founders in any category. If there are any. There have been any stories along the way where you feel like, okay, I’m down, there’s, there’s no getting back up. But I got to do it. And you figured out a way to not stay complacent and keep moving.

Helena Kaylin 26:10
I think, oh, gosh, I mean, there, there have definitely been moments where like, oh my gosh, like, I’m always the person who, like, Okay, I’m gonna live in possibility. And you know, I work for Lululemon founder by Chip Wilson. And there’s just this, you know, the idea of like, living in the possibilities of what something can become, it’s, you know, where I always want to be grounded in and, and then sometimes reality has a different way of like navigating. And so I listened to like, Mel Robbins podcasts are kind of early days, and I’m like this 5432 Like, get up, you just got to keep going. And but that’s where you just like leaning into the network, it’s you got to just lean into your network or your close confidant, you know, whether it’s friends or family to like, shake you out of something to reMINDD you of why you’re doing it. Because it’s the hardest moments that I’ve had. It’s like, okay, it has nothing to do with customer. It has nothing to do with logistics, it has nothing to do with this. It’s like, okay, everything like this, too shall pass like, we’ll figure it out.

Kara Goldin 27:21
No, and I think you definitely have to have that attitude. Have there been any, like, especially fit is such an important component? Have you had anything, we’ve had a number of founders who have been on who have talked about, you know, the early days of, you know, they ran the wrong color, or one of my favorites was Brittany, from Malibu milk, where she didn’t realize that it would actually taste different after you had it sitting for a while. So she threw out, you know, her entire, like, all she kept thinking is I just threw out an entire batch of product that was actually good. And it could have been a down payment on my house, like, What in the world was I doing? Yeah, it was, you know, and she’s like, but you live and learn, you know, have there been anything like that along the way that you’re just like, what happened?

Helena Kaylin 28:21
Yeah, we, so I design and develop all of our products. And we, I designed and created a new bra that we were going to launch in December, actually. And when I was going back and forth with the factory, and you know, a bra you have, like a couple of millimeters can really change or impact of that. And it’s a brand new style. And I wanted to test the size curve. So think got it in place, like 10,000 pieces of it. But still, it was one of those moments where there was a miscommunication between myself and the factory. And I could trace back in time to sitting on my bed with COVID last July. And I like said something in a text message or in an email that like just got misconstrued. And so when we got the inventory and in November, I’m looking at it, I’m like this, this was our second prototype, like a year and a half ago not. And so yeah, that inventory gone. donated and so that was one of those, but it’s like, okay, I should have been getting rest. I had COVID I needed to take time to just you know, and that. And that was a reMINDDer to myself that you can’t keep running hard. 24/7 You really, your body’s telling you you need to rest and you need to rest your MINDD. And so that has been like a big, you know, a big lesson for me. Yeah, what’s the hardest? It’s like, okay,

Kara Goldin 29:56
oh, no, and exactly, and you won’t make that mistake again. Right?

Helena Kaylin 30:00
Mr. Green yield, I won’t make that mistake again. And someone said to me like, well, you can still put it out like what happened? Like someone will. They don’t love it, they’ll just return it. And I just I, for me, I’m like integrity is everything like we we put out a premium products. There’s trust associated with it. Yes, it might work for a small population of women, but that’s not who we are. So, so sad. Okay. hard pill to swallow.

Kara Goldin 30:27
Absolutely help. How big is the market by the way for D plus, women?

Helena Kaylin 30:33
So it is the 66% of women in the United States are actually a deep plus cover hire. And they just don’t know. And so for, you know, I go back to my 29 year old self, starting in this new research and development department at Victoria’s Secret, thinking, of course, no, I’m a 34. B, I hadn’t fit my haven’t been fit since I was like, 16. And there’s a lot of women who just don’t realize, and they’ve, you get comfortable with being uncomfortable. So, you know, a lot of women who I’ve talked to, they’re just like, I’ve just been wearing this size my entire life. And, and yeah, it’s uncomfortable, but I don’t think anything differently. So. So yeah, 66% of women in the United States are actually D plus or higher. And the starting size is it went from a 34 b to a 36. D is that, you know, the median average. And I think that’s just as a result of more women being educated on how to, you know, sell fit at home or going into stores and getting fitted. So but it’s, it is a $36 billion market opportunity in globally. So it’s, it’s pretty massive.

Kara Goldin 31:43
Amazing. So last question. So we all receive advice along the way, some of its good, some of it is not good, for sure. And you have to sort through, you know, what is going to work for you. And as, as I have always said, experience is not necessarily the best advice, because they may not be operators, right. They may have years of experience, you know, they’ve invested in companies or they’ve, you know, been very high level executive and, and that is not necessarily the people that are going to give you the right advice or the or the wrong advice. But I’d love to hear from you. What was the best piece of advice that you’ve ever received?

Helena Kaylin 32:30
Oh, gosh, I, I’m gonna have to say for my dad, so my dad was a builder in the 19, in the late 70s, and into the 80s. And high interest rates forced him to like, you know, close down his business. And when he said to me, early days, especially as I started, you know, fundraising and talking to two different people, and this is the Maya Angelou quote about my dad sat me down, and because, and my personality is like, I, you know, I’m a giver, and I’m a pleaser. And he said, Don’t forget Halina, like when someone shows you who they are the first time believe them.

Kara Goldin 33:06
Very, very true. I love that quote, too. And I wholeheartedly believe that that is, is the case. So Well, thank you so much. And we’ll have all the info in the show notes on how everybody can get a hold of MINDD products and you are doing such an amazing, amazing job. I wish you all the best and I can’t wait for your new products to come out too. And all the exciting stuff that’s going on with with you and with MINDD overall. So thank you again for coming on and sharing your story and your lessons. And thanks, everybody for listening. So goodbye for now. Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would, please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit and of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reMINDDer that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my book on daunted which I share my journey, including founding and building hint. We are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And thanks everyone for listening. Have a great rest of the week, and 2023 and goodbye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live Little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book.com and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time, you’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight? Send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening