Lindsey Pollak – New York Times Best-selling Author and Leading Career & Workplace Expert

Episode 145

“I think people like their habits. I think people like their engagement. So I would say we're going back a lot more than we think with a little bit more flexibility.”

What’s going to change when we all go back to the office?  Will we go back to the office 5 days a week?  What new tools will we be using too? Listen in on this fun, interesting, and insightful conversation with Lindsey Pollak, New York Times Best-selling Author and Leading Career & Workplace Expert. In this episode, she shares valuable advice on how to figure out your career - especially if the pandemic affected your job. We will talk about her latest book, Recalculating: Navigating Your Career Through the Changing World of Work too.  Listen in with Lindsey on #KaraGoldinShow

Resources from
this episode:


Kara Goldin 0:00
Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Kara golden show. So join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. Its Kara golden from the Kara golden show. And I’m super, super excited to have my next guest here. Author Lindsey Pollak, I should say author and friend and amazing, amazing thought leader. And I’m just I’m so thrilled to have her on for her new book just came out a couple weeks ago. And we’re just thrilled that she’s able to come on here and talk to us, give us the inside scoop on the book. And I have to tell you, I got a little bit early edition of the book. Here it is. It’s a great cover here recalculating, navigate, navigate your career through the changing world of work. And it is so so good and so excellent. Not just because she’s my friend, I was like, reading every single page. I was going back I have my notes in there as well. And it’s it’s just super, super good. So a little about Lindsay, and I’m gonna let her even share even more about this, but that Lindsay is actually part of the 2020 thinker’s 50, which is so cool. That is not a an easy list to get on by any means. And she is I feel like you’re the millennial workplace expert. We’re going to talk about this. I’m going to get a new brand for Lindsay out there. But I really, really believe that you have just nailed it on so many aspects. So she is a New York Times bestselling author from her previous book as well. And yeah, I mean, I’m just I’m going to jump in. I’m going to stop talking and let Lindsay do some of the talking here. So welcome,

Lindsey Pollak 2:31
Kara. Thank you so much such an honor to be here. You’re such a friend such an advocate such a role model. I can’t wait to have a conversation. Thank

Kara Goldin 2:39
you very excited. So talk to us a little bit about lenzi. So we’re like how did how did you get into I mean, probably 20 years ago, you had never imagined that you would be this expert this author, did you know that you were going to write a book? Was that a dream of yours?

Lindsey Pollak 2:57
I love this question. Because this is what I asked everybody. Um, I did write an essay in third grade that I wanted to be a writer. So I think I always knew that I love to write I will cop to that. I did not know what I would write about. I didn’t know this existed. I kind of traced my origin story professionally to being an RA my senior year of college, I absolutely loved guiding and mentoring and kind of being like the den mother to girls. At the time, I just had girls in the dorm. And I probably should have gone into like Student Affairs or recruiting or talent management. But I didn’t know any of that existed. And I ended up getting a job at a website called working woman calm, which was the website of the magazine at the time. And like half of the amazing women I know worked at some point at working woman, it was just kind of this place that attracted women who were very career driven. And honestly, I think I would still be there. If it had succeeded. I love that job. I loved the brand. I love the whole idea of helping women in their careers, but it went bankrupt right before 911. And the CEO gave me my laptop and said go start a business. And I was like Haha, yeah, right. And I kept job hunting and job hunting and job hunting and accidentally started freelance writing, and giving little workshops on how to write a resume, how to develop your career, same stuff we’ve been doing at working woman. And so I kind of credit the beginning of my business to 2002. But I didn’t mean to launch it. I told people I was job hunting. And here we are almost 20 years later.

Kara Goldin 4:26
So as one door closes, another opens right? You you probably had a few moments of not being super psyched about the situation and more than if you move forward. Well, I love that and I it’s something I talk about a lot that you have to really, really pay attention during those challenging times to what’s next for you because I think it’s I really believe that it’s opportunities and that really present themselves even coming out of the pandemic. I believe this more than ever. It’s a rebirth and in many ways for many, many people and many companies. And so exciting, really, really exciting time, if you allow yourself to kind of think about it from a forward standpoint, so you’re an expert in understanding the multi generational workforce. And I think one of the biggest questions employees and company leaders have is what is the incoming Gen Z workforce looking for in a company?

Lindsey Pollak 5:28
So I’ve studied a lot about the generational differences, I kind of was an accidental millennial expert. what really interests me is early career development. So that transition from high school to college to your first job and you know, your first few years in the workplace, how do you figure out what you want? How do you gain the skills and the connections and the network to make it happen? And so for many years, that was millennials. And now as you said, that is Gen Z, who were born about 1997. And later, so in their very early 20s, and younger, and we’re seeing a lot of similarities between Gen Z and millennials when it comes to technology. But I think there is no question that Gen Z is going to be defined by coming of age in this pandemic. I mean, it’s sort of I always thought of my work as a little bit of history. And now it’s current events, I mean, the way that they react to this pandemic is going to define them. So we’re already seeing increases in young people going to medical school, seeking careers where they can do good, at the same time that they support themselves, a questioning of the value of college, as many students have gone to virtual classes and not wanting to spend the money. So I think we’re gonna see a lot of entrepreneurial ism and desire to connect to purpose, even more than we saw with millennials, which was already a trend. So I think it’s all in development. But moving very, very quickly. The other thing I’ll say is, I think that what is still to be determined, is whether this pandemic, you know, hurts them as other economic collapses have hurt generations, or if it builds tremendous resilience, as we saw with the greatest World War Two generation, so I think the outcome is still to be determined, I think it’s up to those of us who really care about young people to help, you know, sort of tip the scales in favor of the resilience and the growth. And that’s what I’m hoping to do with this book.

Kara Goldin 7:13
Absolutely. I think I, I’ve shared this with the last we’re on this list that I talked about a lot on my podcast, and that’s how we met but I have for Gen Z years, and very, very different. All four very different, but to your point, you know, obviously, digitally native, they are very comfortable with switching platforms, they don’t have a lot of loyalty, I always say, and I don’t mean that from a friendship standpoint, I speak about it from a, you know, platforms, games, you know, clothing brands, and any other brands. I mean, they move so fast. And it’s, it’s fascinating. So if you ever want to do a case study,

Lindsey Pollak 8:03
folded family, the golden family study, I love it,

Kara Goldin 8:06
I think and I agree with you, I think you know, there are three of them are in college, all three different colleges, and one is in high school. And it’s fascinating to me, because I think, all along through 2020, I feel like it’s, it’s bothered me more than it’s bothered them. I think more than anything, what I saw during this time was that they were feeling like the world was finally catching up to them in terms of, you know, being able to do online classes. And you know, there were definitely I remember when the the first couple of weeks of the pandemic and all the schools were asked to, to use zoom. And there was this, I guess, zoom had given the schools free access. And it was a, it was only for 45 minute classes. And so the classes, some of their classes are, you know, over an hour, at least, and then others are actually double block classes for two hours. So the teacher hadn’t figured out until halfway through the second period, that number. And it was just, and of course, they were just like, Oh, well, you know, I guess we didn’t get our assignment. And I mean, it was just and then they finally caught on to that. So the world has caught up to where they are and and, you know, it’s it’s become much easier. But I do think that to your earlier point to about millennials, I think that the thing that they really care about is this community. And so and my kids are, you know, really, really missing their friends, they went back to school this semester. But on the other hand, they also understand that they’re in an interesting time that they need to be cared for. It’s a super, super interesting time. So it’s an interesting group to sort of watch. And I totally agree with you, I think that they will be that pandemic. And by the way, they were also the 911 kids. Right. And so it’s, it’s very interesting. I was pregnant actually with my third when 911 hit. And there was a whole gap right after 911 of like six months where people weren’t having kids. So anyway, it’s it’s a very, it will be an interesting time in history for sure. So, so let’s talk about the newest book, recalculating, navigating your career through the changing world of work, and talk to me a little bit about that.

Lindsey Pollak 10:45
Sure. It’s a very personal book. And I didn’t mean to write it. I say it’s my accidental fourth child. So I had just written a book called remix a couple years ago. And what happened was excellent, by the way, thank you, thank you. It’s a book about the multi generational workplace. And I’m still out there promoting that book. But like everybody, I was sitting in March of 2020, in my apartment in New York City. And I’m a professional speaker, in addition to being an author, that’s how I make my living. And I watched my calendar go from fully booked to fully empty in a period of about two weeks. And it was terrifying as an entrepreneur. And as I learned from one of my favorite books on daunted The question was, what can I do not what can’t I do? If I can’t speak? What can I do? And I pivoted very, very quickly to writing this book and doing a lot of virtual programs. And what I’ve always kind of wanted to do as a writer, is write the book I wish I had right for a particular moment. And of course, the book I wish I had in that moment was what to do when a pandemic hits, you have to figure out your career. And it’s funny, I’ve always struggled. I love people story of how they named their books. But I’ve always struggled with book titles, it’s always been the last thing to come in a book. With this book, the title came first I was looking out my window, and I saw cars on the street, and I just had this image pop into my head of that moment when you’re driving. And suddenly your GPS says recalculating. Because there’s traffic or you’ve gone down the wrong road, you cannot keep going the way you’ve been going. Per. And that is exactly how I think the whole world felt when the pandemic started, you have no choice, you cannot, even if you have your job, you’re happy, something is going to change. And when I really started to kind of think about the metaphor, I actually chose to view it as optimistic because I know when my GPS says recalculating, as scary as it might be that I’ve lost, or I don’t know where to go, what it’s saying is, there’s another way. And what we all had to do when the pandemic started was find other ways. And the GPS never says, I’m sorry, you have to go back to your driveway and start all over again, it takes how far you’ve come. And it uses all of that data and information and experience. And so I tried to look at it with that perspective, which is kind of how I turned around my own business during the pandemic, through writing, and virtual events. And anything I could do. And the lessons I heard from people I interviewed, were about having the same goal or destination, but finding much more creative ways to get there. So that was how the book was born.

Kara Goldin 13:15
I love it. And I talk a lot about this, this idea of being a lifelong learner. And I think that I’m sure you looking back at other challenging times, we don’t necessarily consciously do that when things are good, right. But when things get dicey, right, when things are unsure, I feel like the more challenging times you’ve been through, you’re able to gain strength from those periods on, you know, okay, well, I got through that time. And now, I’m going to do it again. Maybe you don’t think that immediately, but you think, Okay, I need to keep moving. I need to go and do these things. The people that were actually I think hurt the most during 2020 are the ones that I mean, I’m thinking from a business perspective, are the ones that didn’t do anything. Right. And that’s usually not the answer. I mean, once in a while, it will be the answer. But I had Allison lien, one of my favorite people on my podcast, and she has climbed Everest multiple times. And she talked about how if she didn’t move at one point that she would have been hit by an avalanche that and she said that she’s always felt like you just have to move. You just have to keep moving, even when things get really challenging and tough. So even on Everest, you need to keep going and figuring out ways you can slow down but you need to recalculate and make adjustments along the way as necessary. But, but I absolutely love that.

Lindsey Pollak 14:53
So what are some of the things one of the things that I got out of the book about the recalculating The five rules for re calculators. So do you want to go over those? Absolutely. And it really goes exactly as you’re talking about with Everest rule number one is to embrace creativity, which is you cannot keep doing things the way you’ve been doing that. There’s no more coasting. And I don’t say that to stress people out that you have to be constantly in motion all the time. But I knew that if I tried to just pitch speeches, that was not going to work. So I had to get really creative. How can I do small coaching groups? How can I do micro speaking events? How can I do more articles? So if you’re a job seeker, how can you look in different industries? How can you look for different kinds of situations as an entrepreneur? What are the different markets, think of other restaurant owners who got really creative in the pandemic, you’ve got to think a little bit more broadly and cast a wider net as to what’s possible, no matter what your situation is? So number one is creativity. Number two, is to prioritize action. And I was absolutely blown away by how many people said I need a job, I can’t find a job, I’m so stressed about finding a job. And I said, Well, how many jobs have you applied for? And the answer would be something like one, two, you got to take action. And I interviewed people, and I don’t want this to be the headline, but I interviewed people who applied for hundreds of jobs. Because you can control how many jobs you apply for, you can control how hard you work, you can’t necessarily control whether you get those jobs, but you can take that action. And often we really hold ourselves back. So the best way to figure something out is to try it right to give it a shot to get out there. And a lot of people were paralyzed.

Kara Goldin 16:37
I’ll add to that, too. Lindsay, I always say to people, too, is that, you know, people always think about, Okay, I’m going to only figure out the jobs that I’m really going to want to do. And I think a lot about the fact that sometimes you have to stack your deck with things that are sort of sure things right along the way that you know, you know, you’re not going to have to reach and in some way you think it’s pretty likely, because you’ll meet people along the way. And especially if you’re not doing anything, why not, you know, it’ll make you feel better. You’ll get some offers, they’re not exactly what you want. But I think if you really need something to build up confidence, don’t be afraid to go for things that maybe you know, you’re going to learn something, it’s probably not what you want to do, but you never know, too. So I’ll just add that to that point.

Lindsey Pollak 17:30
I love that I can’t tell you how many people took jobs as like contact tracers for COVID. And it led to a connection that led to a job that they really wanted, or worked at a grocery store and bonded with somebody else. And it led to a job they wanted. So I totally agree and no recruiter is going to hold it against you that you took any job you could get during a global pandemic, or the aftermath that is so common. So I could not agree with you more, there’s actually a whole chapter in the book about how to turn any job into a better job and a learning opportunity, because sometimes you just have to start.

Kara Goldin 18:01
Yeah, and I think the starting is, is key. And so number three,

Lindsey Pollak 18:06
number three is control what you can, which is that you cannot control the virus, you cannot control the vaccine, you cannot control whether somebody gives you a job or not. But you can control your attitude. You can control your mindset, you can control your work ethic, you can control the number of people that you network with in a given day, whether you go to a web webinar hosted by your alma mater, you have control over that. So so many people spent half of our interview saying, Well, what does everybody else say? What kind of jobs are out there? Are people going to judge me because I’m too old to this to that. And I always said, you can’t control any of that. Don’t waste your energy on it. So rule number three is control what you can

Kara Goldin 18:41
I love that. And do you want to go over for a throttle?

Lindsey Pollak 18:44
or? Yeah, I’d love to. So rule number four is to know your non negotiables, which is you’re probably gonna have to make some compromises. But you really have to know your values and what is absolutely essential. So being creative, doesn’t mean I’ll do anything, I’ll take anything, I’ll go against my values. So decide, is it working in a company you really believe in? Is it a certain salary that’s absolutely critical. So you can support your family, but you can probably only pick one or two of those. So get really, really clear on your tip top priorities so that you can perhaps get a little bit more creative and negotiate on some other points. And rule number five is probably my favorite, which I know you’re a fan of as well, which is ask for help. This is a time when you can’t do anything on your own. And in fact, you never have to be alone. And I think a lot of people are very isolated right now are very frustrated, and rightly so. And I think the biggest mistake we make when we’re fearing feeling paralyzed or feeling down or feeling maybe embarrassed that we were laid off or furloughed is that we kind of retreat. And the reality is you’re never gonna get anywhere without other people. That’s what leads to everything. So one of my favorite stories from the book was how many people were laid off from big companies and sort of formed these little informal communities with other people who were also laid off and they said, hey, let’s call each other every morning. Send me a text when you’re feeling down, I found a job that might be better for you and not for me. And they were able to turn something that we felt like a negative into a really strong community that supported them and led to real opportunities. So five is ask for help.

Kara Goldin 20:13
I love it, I had a j ma on who’s the owner of surf lodge out in the Hamptons, and she talked about, while obviously the hotel shut down and and she was sort of looking around trying to figure out how she could be helpful to her employees, she reached out to the bigger community. And what she found that just by offering to be helpful, she actually built a much more solid community with a, you know, area that she didn’t feel like she really knew a lot of people in the area, and that she just hadn’t had time to sort of stop and do that just by reaching out and being helpful and at and kind of asking for some more help. She was able to sort of bond this community together, that she probably she said, For years, she felt like she wasn’t being able to communicate in the right way just by not having that kind of dialogue. So anyway, I totally think that it even it’s a two way street. So it’s in in so many ways.

Lindsey Pollak 21:19
It’s also a really good piece of advice for people who are more introverted and uncomfortable networking. So fine, don’t ask for help. If you’re uncomfortable, go and offer help. I was a spokesperson for LinkedIn for six years, I used to go to college campuses and teach LinkedIn and Reid Hoffman, one of the founders of LinkedIn always said that he thinks people use LinkedIn wrong. He said most people go onto LinkedIn and say, What can I get from the people I know and he said, the way he uses LinkedIn and recommends it is to go on and say, Who can I help? In my network? What can I give, and if you approach relationships, and networking, that way, you’re going to feel better about it. And I think you’ll probably get even more support, because you’re out there showing that you’re mutually beneficial in the way you relate to people. So I always love that as a general rule.

Kara Goldin 22:01
I totally, totally agree about LinkedIn for sure. So what trends are you seeing around employee well being and mental health.

Lindsey Pollak 22:09
So I think this is probably going to be one of the biggest stories coming out of COVID. As we get back to some sense of normal, particularly for young people who have been isolated a lot more than other generations, many are at home living in their, you know, childhood bedroom or living alone. I think a lot of people are suffering quietly. And so I think the companies that really acknowledge that we can’t just say, Okay, everybody back in the office back to normal, but say, how are you? What do you need? How can we support you? What kind of flexibility? What kind of mental health concerns do you have? I think a sense of belonging is going to be really important to continue, for employees to say, we’re not just bringing you back physically, but we want to bring you back emotionally. And you mentioned your children not being loyal. I think a lot of brands, too, they’re very loyal people and loyal to their mom. But the fact is that a lot of young people perceive that their employers are not loyal to them. And so I think companies have to take the first step and say, we understand this has been a, you know, a global trauma. And we want to be here to support you. And I think that companies that are going to win with talent are the ones that are going to really address that. I think it’s so critically important.

Kara Goldin 23:18
You know, it’s it’s interesting. I’m, as you know, my, my day job is the CEO of hint. And I think it’s often hard for people. I mean, we’ve all been out of the office for the last year, like everybody, but I think it’s often hard for people to actually talk about that they’ve got loneliness, mental mental health issues, especially if they don’t identify as such, and now is the time when I think some things might get triggered, right? Maybe they haven’t seen their family in a year or, you know, hugged a friend, right? That, that there’s just things that are really, they’ve never been in those situations, and they didn’t know how much touch means to them, right. And even, you know, sitting next to that guy that you had in your office that had the desk next to you, it wasn’t somebody that you’d ask out for a glass of wine on the weekend, but you kind of enjoyed saying, hey, how was your weekend? And, you know, having an espresso with them or whatever, you didn’t really realize how much you were missing out. So we’ve actually been rather than actually going out and asking people because we were doing that in the beginning. And I think it’s just so easy for people just to say fine, and then it wasn’t fine for some people. And so what we’ve been trying to do is at least once a month and we’re actually ramping that up to twice a month now we’re we’re doing events, super casual events, and The first 50 people, we have 200 people in our company, the first 50 people who show up and sign up for these, we’re doing everything from cannoli making to, you know, wine tasting to, we did a, an exercise class. And so we’re, we’re coming up with these events, and what we’re seeing is that most people are signing up for them. And, you know, they’re couple hours at most, usually, they’re like an hour. And most of the time people are laughing, right? It’s not serious, it’s not a time to sort of, you know, talk about EBIT, da and whatever it really is, Hey, what’s up? Like, what’s going on? And, I mean, it’s, it’s rare that anybody’s even talking about, you know, is your city still in lockdown? Or, you know, it really is just kind of this this jovial spirit that’s going on. And so my hope is that that actually lifts a lot more people as well. And I think that the other thing that people forget, if you don’t mind me just jumping in and saying this, that. So often, I hear companies talking about that they have different teams that get together and do these groups, we’re actually finding that company wide, is just bring a bunch of people together, right? And just, like, Don’t be so controlled about, you know, having the operations team are the e commerce team, because they interact with those people on meetings on emails, it’s just the rest of the people where you can sort of just say, hey, oh, yeah, that’s Lindsay, she’s in, I know, she’s in e commerce, or she’s in HR or whatever. And get those people all together, that maybe you don’t really have a connection with normally, that are really kind of, they’re the spirit lifters. Right? They’re the people that aren’t judging you. They don’t, you know, they don’t interact with you on a daily basis. I don’t know. I I’m finding it’s hard to define it. But I find like, those are really the most helpful things. And I’m hearing this from so many leaders,

Lindsey Pollak 27:12
I have so much about that, that I love. And I want to tell you why. Everything you’re saying resonates. And I’ve done a lot of research with companies that are having positive well being mental health employee engagement outcomes, and number one is no forced fun. I like that your events are opt in, if you tell me I have to have fun at five o’clock with my CEO, that doesn’t feel like fun. So I love that your events are opt in and optional. Number one, number two, I bet you’re there and involved. senior leader engagement is so important. So many companies say we believe in mental health. And then the CEO is on email 24. Seven, and totally engaged and never takes a break, that sends a message that people see. So no matter what you say, if you’re not walking the walk, nobody else is going to believe it. So I think that senior involvement is so important. And the third is that random interaction, one of the top ways to engage people is to get everyone on a zoom, but then put them in random breakout rooms. So that just like if you walked into a room and don’t have control over who happens to be standing in line in front of you, you’re creating those kind of serendipitous moments that never happened during COVID. So I think anything that is random, there was one company that say we just open up zoom every day at noon, and whoever is on is on, you can’t really get that much in life. So I think everything you’re doing is fantastic. I think it’s terrific.

Kara Goldin 28:30
Yeah, we did a little bit of that. But But I found that people stopped showing up like we had four o’clock happy hour. And on Fridays It has been a year. Yeah, and people were just kinda know, people were just, like, Damn, I don’t know, like, it’s just like the, you know, they didn’t feel like drinking or they, you know, they were like, I’m home alone. Why would I crack open a beer? I don’t know. Like, it was just an it’s like, okay, yeah, but I feel like these activities. And actually, I think I’ve talked to a few people about in the events industry about there’s business out here. And for so many talks about, you know, looking forward, while events may not be the same as they were, you know, last year, I feel like so many companies need these activities and need somebody to coordinate, figure out, how do I get a cannoli box, whatever that is. And anyway, I think it’s it’s definitely the world has changed, but I think opportunities are definitely still out there for sure. So,

Lindsey Pollak 29:38
and just briefly, I think it’s what you were saying where the rest of the world is caught up to Gen Z, Gen Z’s and millennials have always told me they feel very judged. When we say something like those aren’t real friends. You met them on a video game or you can’t have a real connection with your friends virtually and they always said How dare you judge my method of connecting with people I find it very, you know, intimate and relationships. Building to play video game with somebody. So I think we’re realizing that when the activity does really bond you, it doesn’t matter if it happens online. And I think we’re going to take that think of companies that are already dispersed or global, we never connected in any way. And now we can do it online if we find those meaningful ways. So I think it’s a really great outcome.

Kara Goldin 30:17
I absolutely love it. So what do you What’s your prediction on getting back to work getting back to the office? What are you hearing from people?

Lindsey Pollak 30:26
Well, I think it’s a really complicated topic. So I have to give all of the caveats of what I’m going to predict. But I think we’re going back way more than people think. I think that we are social creatures. I think that young people want to be back more than people understand. I don’t think that people want to be back in a very rigid way of exactly how it was before, I hope we learned some lessons in terms of flexibility and a little bit more understanding that sometimes people aren’t able to make it. I think it’s been phenomenal for people with different abilities, people with different childcare needs. So I’d like to see more flexibility. But I think this idea that we’re all going to be working from home is not true. I think people like their habits, I think people like their engagement. And I think there’s a lot to offer when we go into work. So I would say we’re going back a lot more than we think with a little bit more flexibility. curious what you think as well.

Kara Goldin 31:16
I totally agree. I think it’s, you know, just because it’s summer, around the corner, I think that there’s going to be a lot of flexibility during the summer months. But I think by fall, fingers crossed, that we’re able to kind of hold this virus and get as many people vaccinated as possible. I think that more and more people will start to go back in go back into the office. But I think that the actually the the beauty, this doesn’t have to do necessarily with work. But the beauty, I think of what this in a virtual world has brought is there are a lot more universities, for example, who are now understanding that, you know, they I mean, frankly, they can have another revenue stream, right, for people who may not be, you know, able or willing or whatever, to to come on campus, they can actually still get a degree from a certain school and, and do it virtually. So I think that being a teacher, if that is your career, for example, you have to understand how to teach to a live audience, in your classroom, as well as always have that monitor on and and i think it’s it’s a very interesting time. And and frankly, I think it may be that way for managers to,

Lindsey Pollak 32:45
I think it might be an opportunity for smaller businesses to to say we’re going to allow a more dispersed workforce, right. And so that’s how we’re going to differentiate from our competitors, because we’re going to be more flexible, so it creates more opportunity to differentiate as an employer to

Kara Goldin 32:58
Yeah, absolutely. And I think talent, as well, is, there were definitely certain categories that were you were okay with those being virtual. And now, I think there’s more areas that are people are open to having, you know, virtual, but I do believe that I don’t think cities are going away. I think people are, you know, there was talk that San Francisco and New York is done. Right? You know, everybody’s moving out. I think people are, they’re taking itis but I think they’re gonna come back. And, and I still believe that large companies are, they’re going to have an office and to your point, my Gen z or z kids, my oldest daughter’s graduating in a couple of weeks. And, you know, her question for me was a real one, which is, do you think that companies are going to be back by the fall in the office because she really does want that human interaction, the idea of, she’s a digital kid, and the idea of going to work in a digital world is just not really work. Right? That’s that to her is just, you know, round two of the world that she’s been living in, not just during the pandemic, but virtual world, and it just doesn’t seem real. And so I think it’s fascinating, what we’re, what we’re seeing and, and really 2021 I think will be such a major turning point 2020 was, but I think 2021 to one sort of how the world works, and we’ll just get better.

Lindsey Pollak 34:43
I think your daughter is a pioneer. I interviewed my youngest cousin was class of 2020 at UC Berkeley, and she said, I feel like for the rest of my life, people are going to look at my resume and say, Wow, you graduated that fateful year and I think it’ll be true of the class of 21 as well. I have pologize I’m in rural Connecticut, there’s a train about to go by. So you probably are that the fun interviews.

Unknown Speaker 35:05
I think your

Lindsey Pollak 35:06
daughter’s a pioneer. And I would encourage her to really document how the experience is and how she navigates it. Because we’re gonna be studying this forever. I think it’s fascinating. And I’d be really curious to hear how she navigates this kind of hybrid environment of starting her career into this this new working world, I think I think she’s a warrior.

Kara Goldin 35:24
Yeah. And she may not know until much later. I mean, as you talked about my book that came out in October and daunted. One of the few chapters in there is, is in the 90s, when I was at America Online, and a little startup prior to that I didn’t know I was in, like, such a historical time. And I’ve had more friends who went back and read the book, and were colleagues of mine, and they said, Wow, like on a lot of levels. I mean, I didn’t realize that we were in it. I mean, you know, I was, at one point, helping Jeff Bezos set up a bookshelf at Amazon, you know, and they were only books, they weren’t like everything else. And, you know, it’s just crazy, right, that you think about, you know, this time, like, what it was like, and where we’ve gone. And I think you’re 1,000% right, that that’s what we’re gonna see, during for this time, and what they’ll remember as well and, you know, share with their own kids how their, you know, college years were a little bit different, and that it was sort of the start of virtual learning. And were really sped up and and many, many ways, so it’s a very interesting time. And I will certainly remember it I know as as so many others will, too. So well. I absolutely love this best place to buy the book Lindsey.

Lindsey Pollak 36:57
recalculating is available at your favorite Book Outlet shout out to buy it if your favorite local independent bookstore also available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble.

Kara Goldin 37:06
I love it. I love it so much. And how do people reach out to you as well?

Lindsey Pollak 37:10
So you can find me on all the social networks and my website at Lindsay Pollack calm or recalculating? 2020

Kara Goldin 37:18
so much great advice. Definitely go out and buy recalculating. It’s so so good. And definitely look for Lindsay’s work her other works three other books. I mean, crazy like that. That is awesome. So, so so good.

Lindsey Pollak 37:36
Thank you. I love it. And can I ask you my kids questions? Yeah. Why do I hate blackberries, but blackberry hint is my favorite flavor. As I’m drinking as you’re drinking your Blackberry, that is my I have you the expert. I want to know the answer to that question.

Kara Goldin 37:52
You know, it’s really interesting. I am not crazy about blackberries either. But I think that there’s a tactile thing that goes on with blackberries for English. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 38:05
the squish.

Kara Goldin 38:06
I don’t know. It’s it’s very, very interesting. I’ve, I’ve learned and, and yet, I think raspberries, I’m fine with but blackberries,

Lindsey Pollak 38:15
there’s something really explosion in your mouth. Somebody I didn’t know the flavor, because I was so bothered by the texture. And I actually do like the flavor. Thanks to hit water. So thank you for clearing that you’re

Kara Goldin 38:28
getting a lot of it’s been a lot of fun building the company. And And certainly, I mean, talking about helping people. I think that that’s the other reason why I wrote my book was just wanting to share not only with other entrepreneurs, some of the challenges that I had, and building the company, but also, just overall, telling people that sometimes when you’re in those challenging times, you don’t really get it, right. And you have those doubts and those fears along the way. But you’ve just got to keep moving forward and figuring out what you can do. And, and it’s been it’s been great to hear from so many people that this product has really helped them drink water and get healthier. And I think health is is a trend that is clearly accelerated during this time in terms of importance for people worldwide. So it’s, it’s, you know, the one thing for me to really be thankful for because I think it’s it’s just gone at the top of the list for everybody. For sure. So well thank you so much, Lindsay and I’m very very thrilled that you took the time to come on today. So everybody give Lindsey five stars and come back and and listen every Monday and Wednesday and we are super, super excited to introduce you to all kinds of great people around business and around just overall Thought Leadership and Lindsay, you were terrific. Thanks again.

Lindsey Pollak 40:04
Thanks for having me.

Kara Goldin 40:06
before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book calm and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara golden and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara golden thanks for listening

Transcribed by