Melody McCloskey: Co-Founder & CEO of StyleSeat

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. It’s Kara Goldin. And welcome to the Kara Goldin show. We are so excited to have Melody McCloskey, who is the co founder and CEO of style seat. And if you are not familiar with style seat, you have been living under a rock and we are going to take that rock and throw it across the room because you absolutely have to know about style seat it is so awesome. It’s the premier platform for booking beauty and wellness appointments. It has powered over 200 million appointments in over 16,000 cities across the US since its launch in 2011. And has helped also generate over a over 12 billion. I was gonna say 11 But it’s more than that 12 billion in revenue for so

Melody McCloskey 1:30
no businesses know kind of scary, but I will not do

Kara Goldin 1:34
that. And I can’t wait to hear more from you melody on how you started and built this incredible, incredible service. And I love love love style seat and I know that everyone is going to love hearing about the incredible story and your journey and we’re so lucky to have you here so welcome.

Melody McCloskey 1:54
Thank you so much and thank you for having me. i It’s been a while since we’ve caught up so I’m looking forward to catching up with you and appreciate the invite.

Kara Goldin 2:03
Yeah, totally really, really excited. So I I tried to describe your company but you were probably like sitting there going on not really tell me. Tell everyone exactly how how would you describe style seat?

Melody McCloskey 2:20
Yeah, you actually did a great job. We are a did a destination to discover a book and pay for beauty and wellness professionals. So it’s kind of like Airbnb for hair stylists, estheticians. Barbers, makeup artists, tanning professionals, lash artists, we have a lot of different types of professionals that you can find on the platform. So you can say I’m looking for a specific type of butterfly braids or women’s Bali asure hair color or nail art or men’s haircut. In wherever city you are, we will give you a list of professionals and portfolios that you can browse through, you can see photos of their work, and you can review their list of services and prices. And then you can book an appointment directly from your phone. And then when you’re in the salon, paying is exactly like Uber, you add your credit card when you book the appointment, so that when your appointment is over, you can walk right out the chair and out the door. And we auto charge your card plus 10. So we make everything from selection to booking and payment really easy. And for the beauty professionals that we work with, you know, we help them manage their entire business, we triple their revenue in the first two years of being on the platform by giving them really great business tools and marketing tools to help them be more successful.

Kara Goldin 3:45
That’s awesome. So you have to tell us the backstory like how did this all get started? I have to imagine this was a personal pain point for you where you really believed that Why are you questioned? Why isn’t the service out there?

Melody McCloskey 4:01
Yeah, well, when I moved to San Francisco feels like a million years ago now. But I tried to find someone to cut and sell my hair naturally, I have pretty curly hair. And I just, I found the discovery and booking experience to be really frustrating. You know, it used to be that you would go on Yelp, or maybe Google a salon in your area. And there was no information about that person. Instagram didn’t exist at the time. And so you might say, Alright, here’s what I need, who at your salon would be great for this. And they’d say, Oh, this person and they’re available tomorrow, you know, and then you’d think, are they good? They’re available tomorrow, you know, can you tell me more about that and they’re just trying to book that appointment? Right. And I felt really frustrated that as a client, I had to just sort of trust the with no information, right? Whoever is going to get to it felt like a lottery and I want to just easy discovery, I want to see who’s good for, you know, professionals that work with my hair type. Or if I’m looking say a manicure, I want to look at the specific nail art that they book or, you know, lashes, or tanning or all these things. People have so many different ways of doing business, they specialize in different things. And as a consumer, maybe you care about a particular type of skill, maybe you care about price, love price to be the best price, or maybe you want the best, and you’re willing to wait a long time for it to really get that person. And so what sales he does is we allow the consumer to filter based on what matters to them, and to match, who they end up booking with, with exactly what they’re looking for. So in a world where a lot of technology companies are seeking to just drive a lot of volume and squeeze margins down and squeeze the little guy stylesheet is really helping our beauty professionals to differentiate themselves in the market, to market what makes them extra special, so that they can attract the best clients for them. And then we help optimize their prices to maximize their earnings. And so for us, it’s about helping them earn equivalent to, you know, their ambition and their skill set. And so it’s a really fun business, because 80% of our beauty professionals are women, and 60% are under represented minorities, which we’re really proud of. And so it’s a really fun company to run.

Kara Goldin 6:30
It’s so interesting, like I bet, for example, you probably have heard, if you started in 2011, you’ve probably you can spot trends as well, right? Where people are searching for different things. What What was one trend that kind of started on your platform that you didn’t have initially, and then people were searching for it,

Melody McCloskey 6:52
you know, I would say there are a lot of times around natural hair that are extremely popular on style seats. So if you have particularly textured hair, let’s say you’re a black woman, and you don’t want to chemically straighten your hair, you want to maintain the integrity of your hair, you’re looking for professionals and styles that help you do that. And that was something that I did know a lot about before I started the company. And so I was very much in learning mode. But we found that a lot of black stylists love being on the platform, they like they could differentiate their services, they liked the tools that we provided. And as we started to get larger in that community, we started building more and more features to feed the needs that they had. And it’s now something that we’re known for. And that is like, surprising to me, because we didn’t seek it out. But it was so delightful to see that happen. And, you know, we were like, Alright, how can we support, you know, certainly as many people as we can, but how do we support this really growing community and serve a need for that. So that would be something that was like, not intended, but was a delightful journey that we went on, as a part of doing business. And there’s, there’s a handful of those little stories where, you know, I wasn’t when I started this company getting nail art, I didn’t know that much about it. And now like, I don’t know if you can see my nails. It’s amazing. She does like Missy Elliott Teyana Taylor here in Atlanta, She’s incredible. And I cannot not get my nail appointment. And it’s this fun, creative expression every couple of weeks to be able to say, alright, what are we going to do? Now? How do we feel? Who are we this week? It’s kind of fun. So yeah, there’s a lot of unexpected joys I think in running this company.

Kara Goldin 8:45
So you have services that actually you go to some of the or not you but well, probably sometimes you many times you but people can go to the locations. But you also have people who will come to the home to write? Yes,

Melody McCloskey 9:03
yes, that’s exactly right. And similar to the market, about 95% of the appointments that we power, you’re going into the salon, and you’re going to a location. But if you do want to have someone come to your home, then we absolutely provide those services as well. And we see that a lot more often. And you’re in LA and oftentimes in San Francisco as well. But it’s interesting because we powered hundreds of millions of appointments across the platform. It’s so fascinating to see how different cities use beauty. Like in the South and the Midwest, they use beauty very differently than they do in Seattle or San Francisco. And so it’s always fun to see the different patterns and trends and you know, in San Francisco, they’re not maybe getting their nails done quite as much you’re not getting. You’re not changing up your hairstyle very often. versus like I live in Atlanta, and everyone’s changing up their hair all the time. They’re getting their services done fairly consistently. It’s just part of the culture here. So yeah, it’s it’s just, it’s fun to see the different trends and the different areas.

Kara Goldin 10:15
That is, so that’s so great. I know when I was starting hint, we would see this with flavors early on, like Los Angeles, we couldn’t keep cucumber water on the shelf. But in New York, we would have people who were like, offended that we had a cucumber water, and we would start to see it. And that’s sort of leveled out over time. But I was always amazed to see how there were, you know, only a few hour plane ride away how people were different in different parts of the country. So it’s fascinating to hear you talking about that, and what you’re seeing so interesting. So what is the service that is kind of the, for lack of a better term, like the hero service that seems to be consistent across all of all of the US?

Melody McCloskey 11:05
I mean, definitely haircuts, right? When you wake up in the morning, for most people, your hair’s longer, it was the day before. So that is definitely the bread and butter, the power of you’ve got men that will get their a job or their men’s cut every week or every couple of weeks. And so they’re lower priced services, but higher frequency. And typically men are looking for different things. And there’s definitely different barbers and different clients. You know, there’s, there’s some guys that just want to get an edge up pretty regularly, they’ve got sort of a couple of people that they’re willing to go to, then you have those barbers that have their clientele booked out months in advance, and their services are really expensive. And they’re, you know, three times longer, because it’s more of a luxury experience. So we’ve got all of that. Brands are definitely huge. It’s breed season, by the way. So you know, we see that trend come up. prom season is pretty universal in a lot of different cities. And it’s funny, too, because when we get a new data scientist on the platform, these things will be a surprise to them, because they’re not thinking about that normally. And we’ll have to say, yeah, it’s, you know, it’s prom season, this is why you see this huge influx or, you know, make sure you pull out the confounding nature of this when you do your AV test. And they’re like, What are you talking about, you know, and we’re like, well, people are on vacation, they’re at the beach, they’re not doing their hair as much. So you got to, it’s just, it’s, it’s funny, because our team, our technical, you know, many of them, and we are in the beauty industry. And so there’s definitely a merging of two worlds.

Kara Goldin 12:44
So interesting, I’m thinking about so your consumer is obviously the person who wants to get the service done. But then you’re also working with many people that don’t work for you. Right? So you’re relying on them to provide a great service to get the appointment to show up on time. How hard is that?

Melody McCloskey 13:07
Originally, it was very hard, because when we first launched, we were, you know, underfunded and had raised almost no money. And so we were lightweight tools for professionals to market themselves and for consumers to search and book. Initially, we didn’t even have the booking experience. And so when you’re only integrated slightly into businesses, you can’t really require that they behave a certain way, right. But as we became more and more an operating system, where we were now powering booking, and payments, and finances and marketing, and we started to become a significant share of their source of new clients and growing income. That was when we could then step in and say, All right, if you’d like to get more of this value, here’s what you need to do. You have to, you know, we need to make sure that your return rate is really high, that you’re always showing up for appointments, that your client review score is high. You know, there’s a number of criteria that we use as we showcase our businesses. And so the more the businesses provide great experiences to consumers, the higher up in search they are, which then drives more trust with consumers. So you’re gonna get more bookings. And so you get this nice flywheel going. So now we can require certain behavior by our businesses, because with that behavior, we drive more value. And that just helps make the entire platform a safe place, a reliable place for consumers, something that you can trust.

Kara Goldin 14:48
Do you have a policy in place like with if you receive a complaint? For example, do you have a policy in place that you would remove Have somebody from the platform, for example?

Melody McCloskey 15:02
Yeah, we do. And if it’s certain types of actions, we remove you immediately, if it’s maybe a no show, but you didn’t mean to, and it was a mistake, we’ll give you a pass. But if it happens again, or it happens consistently, then then we will remove you from the platform. And for some businesses, you know, they like to style C to run their business, but not necessarily be in the style t.com search directory. And we were fine with that, right. So we try and be flexible for businesses to use us in any way that works for them. But also to, again, maintain trust with the consumer, because the consumer trusting us is how we’re able to drive the value to the businesses. So it really does go hand in hand.

Kara Goldin 15:48
So how did you come up with the name style seat?

Melody McCloskey 15:53
I was on an airplane. I think I was coming back from New York to San Francisco. And I was sitting next to a friend of mine, who has started, he started over, he started many big companies. And, you know, I was like, I’m really stressed because I want to start this business. And I don’t have a name for it yet. And he goes, We’re gonna order to champagnes are on this flight. And by the time we land, we’re gonna have a name for your company, open your laptop. And so we opened up our laptops, and we were looking at like names and name combinations where the Euros are available. And you could build a brand around and it was a, it was a really enjoyable experience, it went from being, this is a stressful thing that I have to do. It’s one of the last checkboxes before I can, you know, really start this business, too. This is fun, you know, let’s think about we could build a brand around and it was, by the time we landed style seat was the name,

Kara Goldin 16:49
I love it. So get with a friend and start brainstorming. You don’t need to hire a naming agency or you can just bring some crowdsource some people into a room to help you kind of think about different things and get some champagne in there as well. So I love it. Awesome. So you have a co founder? No,

Melody McCloskey 17:12
if you’re not opposed, champagne doesn’t hurt. Yeah.

Kara Goldin 17:16
So you have a co founder? And for anybody listening who’s thinking, I don’t have a co founder, or should I have a co founder? What are your thoughts on that?

Melody McCloskey 17:26
It’s a great question. It really depends on I’d say, what works for you and how you work best. I was a non technical founder. And for me, I thought it was very important to bring an engineer in, in the early stages of the business to be able to have that credibility and make sure that a lot of the early decisions we were making were sound technical decisions. Because I had worked in product and had experience, but I wasn’t a software engineer. That might not necessarily be something that you need, right. And there’s several other considerations, I think, I like to be pretty collaborative and the way that I work, I think and solve the problems by having conversations and bouncing things off of someone and really taking a problem and looking at it from all directions. And I find that having a, you know, one or a couple of people that are in my inner circle, that I can really look at something from all sides, that’s really beneficial to me, I’m analytical, my husband will tell you that I overthink everything that is probably true. But it’s what I it’s the way that I work, it is how it is. And so for me, that was the choice that I took. There’s definitely pros and cons to a co founder, I think it’s a fantastic choice that you could make, but you don’t have to do it. There are a lot of solo founders that are successful as well. So I think it really depends on who you are. The stage that you’re in, in your career, you know, and and how, you know, are you collaborative? And do you take joy and energy in that? Or do you really want to be a lone wolf?

Kara Goldin 19:08
So interesting. Yeah, I agree with you. I don’t think there’s any one way I think it’s, it’s, it’s just trying to figure out what’s best to actually help you scale the company more than anything. So I’ve seen it both ways. So to start a company and disrupt an industry as you have, what would you say is kind of the driving force behind the success of style. See, besides you, because I do think that people matter. And actually bringing a company to be able to scale and even if you’ve had tons of experience, scaling a company from zero as you have to where it’s at today is is it’s hard, right? So but what else? What are the key things?

Melody McCloskey 19:56
That’s a great question. You know, I think what What has helped me continue to be excited about this company, I’m more excited about this business than I’ve ever been many years later, like 12 or 13 years later, is a mission that is really core to who you are, and something that drives you. Right. So the idea of helping female entrepreneurs, you know, mostly women, business owners be more successful, doing what they love, support their families, doing something that they’re passionate about, is very exciting to me. And from the very beginning, I could see, you know, I’m an analytical mind, I love thinking about business, I’m not very creative. So I’m so in awe of creative people. And building a business around creativity was like, not a hard thing. And my mind’s way less hard than actually being the creative. And so helping creatives think about financing, margins, marketing, how to differentiate in their market, how to basically do the things that helped them earn more money over time, you know, the average professional comes to us making 40 or $50,000, a year and two years later, they’re making 150k plus, that is a transformative impact on someone’s lives. That is a transformative impact for a parent, for any individual, and helping to drive that value. Too many 10s of 1000s of people, it’s something that I haven’t gotten sick of, you know, I don’t know if I’ll ever get sick of that. And something that I feel joy out of dedicating my life to. And on the consumer side, certainly helping people look and feel their best. And I was really shy when I got when I initially was looking for hair stylists back in the day in San Francisco, and I felt very frustrated trying to have conversations and communicate and leave and like not like how my hair looked and having spent over 100 bucks a pop, which is a lot. Making that experience better is also gives me joy, but it’s really supporting the businesses if I’m being honest, that and, and are entrepreneurs, that’s what really drives me.

Kara Goldin 22:15
No, I love it. One of the questions I was going to ask you, which kind of you’ve answered, but I, I’m curious if there’s anything else on on that topic, but as a founder and an entrepreneur, I know that, you know, there’s a lot of stuff that goes on in the background that you don’t necessarily talk about or get credit for, that you really feel like you’ve changed in industry. You know, Steve Jobs used to say, you know, when the coffeemaker breaks, he’s got to make sure that he’s got it fixed. And that, you know, he’s got the right beans, and you know, and all of these things, plus, you know, major changes in in the actual product or service that you’re developing that maybe are not sort of the front facing things that kind of consumers know about, but is there anything in your product that you just really feel like, Damn, that was just awesome that we did that we accomplished.

Melody McCloskey 23:15
You know, I’m really proud of the brand and the logo, I love our company, I have one in front of me or lion, we had what I think is a really ugly rag for a really long time. And that was because I just didn’t have the capital to hire a firm to create a bigger brand, but like I have this in my good love it. I get so sick, and I actually have it tattooed on my body. tell you where later. I’m just kidding. I love that’s something that I’m really proud of. Because like that Mark is a culmination of like me loving the businesses. It’s it’s a lioness. It’s kind of a genderless lion. And it is totally badass, and it evokes fierceness. And when I think about it, I think of the fierceness I’ve had to have starting my business. I think about the fierceness that my you know, our entrepreneurs have in running their business, the boldness that that takes to be a creative and continue doing it. I think about how the clients want to feel after they book an appointment. So I love it that, you know, for me, it’s just a really personal thing. That gives me a lot of joy. But there’s a lot, you know, when I look at the product from the app, and it’s not anywhere to where I want it to be. I told my team that I’m usually living two years into the future so that by the time we’ve built something in my mind, I’m like two years ahead of where we are. And I’m like, Hey, okay, we built it. It’s a massive feature. That’s wonderful, but I’m thinking of the next, you know, three things. It’s probably frustrating for them. But it is, you know, I’m very proud of what we felt and you know, the impact that we’ve had for sure.

Kara Goldin 24:56
We didn’t talk about this yet, but what were you doing Before starting stylesheet, like what experience did you have? Were you in the industry?

Melody McCloskey 25:05
No, I know everyone asked if I was a stylist I wasn’t. I was, my experience was in product as a product manager at a couple of different companies. But I only had a couple of years experience before I started my company. Previous to this, I worked at a television network called the Current TV, which was an amazing TV network, we won a ton of any Emmys, or continent, our content was fantastic. No one watched it, because it was on this channel that no one had in our cable package. And so I ran digital distribution and helped get our content onto you know, iTunes, and YouTube and social media and things. And it gave me a lot of joy. I learned a lot about business, but I was not qualified to start my company. Before I started it. I had no business doing it at all. Most of the, I didn’t know a single female founder, when I started my company, it’s not to say they didn’t exist, I just didn’t know him. Every and I knew hundreds of men that had started companies were running companies, which is such a bummer. So I didn’t fit that bill. I didn’t go to an Ivy League school as a software engineer, like almost everyone else that I knew had. And so I had no business, starting a company, and I did it anyway. And I’m really, really thankful and appreciative. And now I love to see all of these women entrepreneurs, there’s entrepreneurs that are not typical everywhere. That’s very normal. And I’m I’m appreciative of that, because I think that the products that are being built are benefiting from the diversity of the people creating them.

Kara Goldin 26:43
So raising money for most entrepreneurs, especially female and diverse entrepreneurs isn’t easy. I read that when you first tried to pitch your they called it an open table for beauty business. I was reading this in an article about you that it wasn’t well received. A lot of people listening, tried to raise capital. I certainly did. I mine wasn’t called Open Table for beauty, but it was probably an open table for a water company. Nobody knew what I was doing, especially having come from tech, they were like, what’s the tech angle? I’m like, There’s no angle? They’re like, Oh, well, how can we write? So? I heard a lot of nose? I don’t get it, why are you doing it? You’re gonna fail all of these things. But can you share more about your thoughts on on what it takes to be able to raise capital? And the right capital, as well?

Melody McCloskey 27:49
Yeah, that’s a that’s a great question. Um, that journey is different for everybody. And I would say it is oftentimes very helpful to fundraise. When you have a company that is trendy, right, like aI right now, it’s very trendy, we’re at the beginning of an innovation wave. If you’re raising money for an AI company, you’re in the right, everyone is looking to speak with you, right. I was starting a company as a woman, and there were almost none, in a very female sector, with a very diverse community of mostly women. And all of the Czech writers were men, all of them, I think I pitched the first woman that ended up investing in my company with Sophia Bush, who is an actress and was not, you know, not even a traditional tech investor. So I was like, the opposite of trendy for the whole history of the business. And I’ve done it, I’m not gonna say that it was easy, or it brought me a lot of joy to go through that process. I used to tell, you know, my, my CFO, if there’s more than one bald person in a room, the deal is not going to happen. Because there were several investors who would come to me later and say, I don’t want to be on a board document here. Silas that’s not interesting to me, I have not heard 20 years. And that’s such a bummer, too, that someone can’t look past their own. I’m trying to think of a polite word like their own situation, to be able to want to support entrepreneurs or to want to support a company that is is doing good in the world and making a lot of money and building a lot of scale etcetera. But whatever it is what it is, and everyone has their own purview. So for me, I think I learned how to thrive from shut doors. I got energy from being told no, because every no in my mind was one step closer to The ultimate Yes. And you don’t need a yes from everybody, you just need a yes from the right person or the right group of people. And like you said before, what’s great about being distinctly who you are, and not trying to conform or be like everyone else, is that you repel people that do not like who you are, and you attract people that do. And I’ve definitely felt that because I also don’t want to work with people that are not on my level, or excited about the mission that we’re on, or excited about leading in and helping me do what we do. And so that goes to it. It’s right, it’s a blessing when someone says, your business is not that interesting to me goodbye, because you want to work with that person, you definitely don’t. So I’ve learned, I think, if you asked me during those days, I wouldn’t have necessarily said that to you. But looking back over several years, I definitely feel that way. And, you know, my favorite investors are the ride or die. And they’re that way because they love and, you know, feel for our mission. And that’s what you want in life, like not only because they’re the best types of investors, because they’re going to support the company, but also because they’re the best people to work with.

Kara Goldin 31:15
Yeah, totally the ones that really understand what you’re doing, I have a similar story to what you’re talking about when we were first raising money. And, you know, everyone was nice, right? They had a lot, many of these people had never invested in a beverage company they had, they sort of allowed me to come in the door because I had been in tech, and they knew me from from my tech days. But the interesting thing that I heard over and over again, was that many of these men who were not Diet Coke drinkers, right, which was kind of my story of giving up Diet Coke and realizing that that was not something that was actually getting me healthy. And they would say, gosh, you know, wow, you had an addiction to Diet Coke. I mean, that’s, that’s crazy. I’ve never heard of such a thing. All I have to ask my wife if she knows any people. And I’m like, they never did. They never asked their wife they never

Melody McCloskey 32:17
know. Right? And now so you know what? I, my I have a story of that. Because the I’ve heard that so many times, or can I have my assistant come in the room. I at one point, had an investor who turned to me and I said, you know, the average woman spends at the time so this as well go $3,000 A year on beauty services. And he turned to me and said, My wife doesn’t spend that much. And I said, Well, your wife uses our platform. And for stylists owns the salon that he works at and she charges there. And he charges $1,500 for a cotton color. And I happen to know that your wife goes more than twice a year. And everyone burst out laughing. And he looked at me and was like, is that true? And I’m like, you know, I’m not trying to blow her up. But if you’re sitting here looking at me telling me with straight face that you know this industry, you don’t you have to every once in a while you have to blow them up a little bit because it’s just you just got to you just got it.

Kara Goldin 33:18
Yeah, you have to and eventual and you only need one or investor right one to say yes to because I think that that’s the other thing. It’s it’s it is like finding a needle in a haystack and somebody who really gets it. But don’t be discouraged by somebody who doesn’t believe that people spend money on services right? Or that people aren’t addicted to diet soda or something else. Right? Like it’s, I think it’s it’s definitely, you’re always going to have people who are self selecting, and that’s fine. But those aren’t the right investors to be investing. If nothing else, they’re helping you perfect your pitch. So now’s the time, but I think it’s it definitely happens to everybody, even successful people like melody who have heard knows along the way, but I figured out how to keep moving forward. So best advice you’ve ever received.

Melody McCloskey 34:17
Someone once told me know what drives you. Because there’s a lot of people that say to others or to themselves, this is what I care about in life. But actually, it’s something else. And whatever it actually is, is what is going to motivate you or drive you to make decisions. So be really in touch with that and honest with yourself about that. And you can complement strengths and weaknesses or whatever with with people around you and with different things. But you have to know innately what drives you and you can use it to take you where you want to go.

Kara Goldin 34:55
I love it. Well thank you so much. We’ll have all of the info in the show notes. It’s for melody and style seat. So appreciate you coming on and giving us all of your wisdom and stories really, really awesome. So everybody needs to get on the style seat platform and check it out. It’s super great for traveling and not knowing who can help you during those crazy crazy times that you really need the services. So thank you again for starting this and scaling it and doing everything that you do.

Melody McCloskey 35:30
Thank you so much for having me. This has been a wonderful conversation. I appreciate it.

Kara Goldin 35:34
Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would, please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit and of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my book on daunted which I share my journey, including founding and building hint. We are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And thanks everyone for listening. Have a great rest of the week, and 2023 and good bye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book.com and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of Pentwater Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening