Amy Nelson: Founder & Co-CEO of The Riveter

Episode 300

Founding a company is never an easy journey. Especially when you are running a company that is in an industry so squarely affected by the pandemic. But that didn’t stop Amy Nelson, Founder and Co-CEO of The Riveter from doing what all great entrepreneurs do – they figure out what they CAN do. Amy launched The Riveter, a coworking, content and community for working women, in 2017 and on today’s episode she shares the ups and downs that she has experienced in building it. She also talks about how she pivoted during the pandemic and where The Riveter is today. Amy is also the co-host of iHeartRadio's What's Her Story with Sam Ettus, which I was fortunate to be a guest on. Thrilled for you to hear our discussion including the unpredictable, challenging and recently very public personal situation she and her family has weathered. This episode really shows Amy’s resilience and I hope you will agree. You don’t want to miss this incredible episode. Today on #TheKaraGoldinShow.

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be you just want to make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. It’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show and I am so so thrilled to have my next guest. Here we have Amy Nelson, who is the founder and CO CEO of the Riveter very, very thrilled to have Amy here. So for those of you who are not familiar with the Riveter, they are a startup providing co working content and community for working women. And Amy started the company back in 2017. And she is also the co host by the way of iHeart radio’s what’s her story with Sam Adas, which I was fortunate to be a guest on such a good show, definitely give it a listen. And as I said, I’m really excited to speak with Amy about her journey. She is an incredible, incredible human and also entrepreneur, and just really, really interested to hear about how everything’s been going overall. And in case anybody has followed her. She’s been public about some personal situation that she’s been going through. And if she feels like talking about it, we would be delighted to have her speak a little bit more about that. So I’m grateful to have her here with us today. So welcome, Amy.

Amy Nelson 2:00
Thank you, Kara. I’m so excited to be here. Super, super

Kara Goldin 2:03
excited. So let’s start at the beginning. I’d love for you to share with everybody who aren’t familiar with the Riveter and aren’t familiar with Amy, what is the Riveter?

Amy Nelson 2:15
So today, the Riveter is a media startup that offers content community and co working. I started the company back in 2017, I was pregnant with my third daughter, I had been a lawyer for 10 years, and I loved being a lawyer. But I reached this point working in corporate America where I had to be at the office every day at my desk from nine to six, I reached a point where I said, I’m not seeing my kids. And I deeply want to work. I am somebody who has always wanted to work. I am the daughter of a working mom, I’m the granddaughter of a working grandmother. That wasn’t the question for me. But the question was, how do I make this work, my husband traveled a lot. We lived in Seattle away from family. And so my solution at the time was to go start my own legal practice. So I started going to classes on like, how to write a business plan, how to form an LLC, the kind of the basics before you start your own legal practice. And I was going to these classes, and they were at a place called we work which I had never really heard, and maybe the last person in America. But the other thing is that the classes, everyone in classes, they were also men. And I kept reading that all these women were starting businesses. And so my question was, where the hell are they, and they couldn’t find them where I was going. And so I started talking to women who I knew who had started small businesses or large businesses, kind of the consensus is there isn’t a place where we all come together. And so I thought, well, maybe instead of starting illegal practice, what I should do is start a place in a community where women can work can start their businesses and can learn and can come together. And so that was the idea for

Kara Goldin 3:48
the Riveter. So interesting. What kind of law did you practice, by the way?

Amy Nelson 3:52
So I was a financial services litigator. I mean, I represented big banks, credit rating agencies, I worked on this during the financial crisis. So my career was always kind of a wild ride from, you know, litigating what was on the front page of the Wall Street Journal. And I was in New York, London, and it was super interesting, and I really did love it,

Kara Goldin 4:11
and totally different from what you were considering embarking on. You mentioned, we work and you mentioned going into their space. I mean, how did you know where to start, though? It’s one thing to sort of say, Oh, I’m gonna go start something that is better than this, that is focused on a group, but I mean, what was the next step?

Amy Nelson 4:35
So that’s a really great question. And I think one that we don’t talk enough about of like, okay, you have this idea. So what do you do? Because it is a big shift to go from earning a lawyer salary with a stable job to earning nothing and putting it all on the line. And so

Kara Goldin 4:53
pregnant with your third right, had you had your third yet or No,

Amy Nelson 4:56
I have I hadn’t had my third yet. I was pregnant and I had my Third, two months after we opened the Riveter, it was a whole mile. But I, so I did two things. So, you know, I found the classes to go to. And I’m still thinking about the legal practice idea, like just on online looking on Google of like how to start a business or like, you know, looking around. And just because we work had great SEO, they would find me on my Google searches and tell me where to go. And so I was going to his classes, and they were helpful, right? I think that like, it is smart to outline your idea to think about your idea to move forward. But the other thing that I did that I would recommend anybody do is I entered a small business pitch competition. And I know that it might sound cheesy, but here’s the thing, that pitch competition forced me into a funnel, it forced me to write out my business plan, it forced me to learn how to pitch it in three minutes, which is a very hard thing to do. It forced me to get up and speak about it in front of hundreds of people, which is scary. And I did that, and I did it on a timeline. It was like, you know, this is your timeline. This is when the pitch competition is and ultimately like I want, it was amazing. Wow. And what a $10,000 check. And doing that gave me a lot of confidence. And it also made me formulate an idea and move forward. And just getting to the beginning where you take the first step is really important. And then after that, that was in November of 2016. And I was still working full time working full time doing this at night. And a week after that business pitch competition, Hillary Clinton lost the election. And I really felt at that moment that I was like, well, if not now, when. And that’s when I quit.

Kara Goldin 6:30
One of the things that I talked about a lot is when I decided to leave TAC and I took a couple of years off to stay with my kids. But everybody was so concerned that I was hopping off the train. And I was, you know, one of the youngest vice presidents at America Online, one of the few women everybody’s like, what are you doing? Like, have you just lost it? I always felt like, if I really had done the job that everybody is acknowledging, then I could go back to it. If this was a failure, did you feel like you could always go back and practice law if it didn’t work out? For some reason?

Amy Nelson 7:09
I did. And I actually, it’s, it’s interesting, because when I was 31, I met my husband, I was living in Minneapolis, and he got a job in Seattle. And we were just dating. We were not engaged. We’re not married. And he asked me to come with them. And a lot of people told me not to go there. Like, why would you uproot your life got married to this guy, you’re not engaged. And I, in the dark of the night asked myself, like, what’s the worst that could happen? If I go, and I hate it, I can come back, I will always regret not giving it a chance. And ever since then, I’ve made big decisions in my life through that kind of framework. Like will I regret not giving this a chance? Because the safe thing is to stay and not give things a chance. But what an extraordinary or interesting life you can lead if you give things a chance, and you’re willing to fail.

Kara Goldin 7:51
Yeah, it was my dad’s favorite saying, whenever I would stress out, particularly when I was growing up, and in sports, I’d be, you know, freaking out about a meet coming up or, and he’d say, what’s the worst that will happen? I mean, you’ll lose your blue here. And that’s like, you know, it’s just just and I’m like, Yeah, that’s a horrible. He’s like, it’s not really that bad. I mean, and

Amy Nelson 8:14
I mean, some of the biggest winners in history last for a very long, totally. Yeah. And I think that like, I played sports, too. Yeah. And my four daughters. Now I’ll play sports, because you need to learn to lose in life.

Kara Goldin 8:28
And you have to be able to pivot. And we’ll get into all of that later. What, what was kind of the hardest, most unexpected thing when you were first starting the Riveter, that was really, really challenging for you.

Amy Nelson 8:41
So I don’t want to downplay how hard it is to raise money. Because the Riveter is a venture backed company, we took that path, which is not the path for everyone, but it was for us, because we ultimately built very large co working and event spaces across the country. So we did raise money. And that was very hard. And I’m a woman. And we all know the stats are horrible for women raising venture, but ultimately, we raised over $30 million. But so it was very hard. But for me, personally, the most unexpected hard thing because I expected raising money to be hard. The most unexpected hard thing was building a team. So Kara, unlike you who had managed people, I’ve been a lawyer, like I was in the service industry, I’d never managed a single human being in my life. And I was like, What is this? It’s a whole other thing. And startups can live and die on their ability to hire the right people for the right role at the right time. And I had to learn that I had to learn it the hard way. I hired some great people who weren’t right for the role. I hired, you know, like, it’s just it’s a hard puzzle. It’s hard to figure out and I learned very quickly that what I needed to do was rapidly assess what I was good at what I was terrible at and hire for what I was terrible at and stay out of their way and keep moving.

Kara Goldin 9:55
Yeah, no. And I was I was just thinking that even if you were managing A group of attorneys or it’s a different industry, so a different type of person. Maybe that is not coming into the office necessarily. But is. I mean, you probably had workers that weren’t necessarily on salary. Right? I’m just guessing. I mean, hourly workers, maybe some Yeah. Anyway, so it’s just, I bet it was just a totally different, you know, new thing. So. So anyway, so how many and then across the US to right, so how many locations did you have?

Amy Nelson 10:31
Yes, we opened our first location in Seattle in May of 2017. And then we opened our 10th location in January of 2020. Great timing in Denver. So we had 10 locations. We were in Washington, Oregon, California, Texas, Colorado, and Minnesota. And that was all in two and a half years.

Kara Goldin 10:48
Wow. So you mentioned January of 2020. Take us back to that, you know, beautiful spring, I read that your business model literally collapsed overnight. So share a little bit more about kind of that time as you think back? Yeah, I

Amy Nelson 11:05
mean, if I look at like March 10 2020, we are on track for 20 million in revenue in 2020 13. We were doing it we were doing the thing, our third full year of business, we had 125 employees, we had about 15,000. Co working and event members across the country, we were hosting hundreds of events in our revenue model was coworking memberships, brand partnerships for events, because a lot of brands want to reach working women. And it’s actually kind of a difficult demographic to reach, there aren’t a lot of channels to it, which is why I think the Riveter was a good idea. And then events and venue rentals. And so that’s how our model worked. And then on March, I would say in Seattle, on March 16, that ended, right that all just shut down Seattle was you know, if you remember the epicenter ground zero of COVID. And when we shut down, we shut down. And I had to make a lot of hard decisions very quickly. First, keeping in mind everyone’s health. And our model is based on density, right care, or models, like how many people can you put in the space at one time, and so we just decided quickly to shut down all the spaces. Even though like in Texas, the world hadn’t shut down yet, we were shutting down because I didn’t want anyone to get sick and and between our employees and our members, and then we stopped charging people for memberships. A lot of co working companies continued to charge people for memberships, we stopped because they couldn’t use our space. So we thought that was the right thing to do. And so then we, I mean, we lost all of our revenue. And then we had to start making a lot of hard decisions about the business and who we were and what we’d be. I think for probably six weeks, I had this mindset that this was a short horizon event, and it would end and we would be okay. And then I realized it was not short horizon that this wasn’t going to stop. And so then, we made a pretty dramatic decision to get out of all of our leases, to roll up the coworking business, because we built a really large online presence. Not intentionally, but thank goodness. But there are a lot of women who were interested in what the Riveter was doing the content, we were producing the trainings we were having for everything from like how to negotiate your salary if you’re in corporate America to how to start a business. So we decided to lean into the digital side of what we built and get out of all of our leases. It took a year to get out of all the leases. So from May of 2020, to May of 2021. There were lawsuits. I mean, it was, but we got out of about 90 years of lease liability, which was I mean, and we survived. There were times we didn’t know if we would. So that was a really it was it was very unpleasant to do. And there, you know, like, there were a lot of people who were like, just let it go filed for bankruptcy. Like this is a black swan. But I really believed in what we built. And you know, I’d put my life into it, and a lot of other people had to, and I have investors and I feel responsible, and I wanted to give it as much of a shot as I could. And so I thought if we can get out of these leases, we have a chance at a second life.

Kara Goldin 13:57
Yeah, absolutely. Wow. I mean, such a crazy time. I’m just thinking back on that. So basically, I mean, that was your revenue, right? That you were I mean, you had sponsorships, you had the memberships. So like, what was it at that point? What was the Riveter? I mean? Was it anything? Like could could? Mine or what what were you doing at that point?

Amy Nelson 14:18
So during the pandemic, when we still had a team, we were doing lots of online events and get togethers, helping people find community and not be isolated. But we weren’t really charging for it, because it just didn’t make sense at the time. And then as our team got smaller and smaller, the amount of events we were doing is smaller, but we were still doing things with different brands that wanted to reach working women. And we did a big white paper during the pandemic on like the state of working parents in the pandemic, which I think is something that you know, we’ll be asking about and learning about for years of how the pandemic changed and crashed so many families who tried to work especially those with small kids, but I did a lot of thinking of like, what are we going to be like, how do I rebuild this business model and like I did not have a big team to do it either. And I wasn’t paying myself at a certain point. And but then, throughout all of this, I’d always had this idea that the Riveter could really be more than a place where people came to work, but could be a place that talked about how real women made real money, and how they could build their wealth and how they could invest and how they could save and how the women who are leaving corporate America can really find ways to create their own recurring revenue, because I think so many women particularly pandemic did leave corporate America are always thinking about it. And so what if we could become a membership organization where eventually we found some space solutions, but we also had programming resources, assets, experts to talk about how we rebuild how we pivot, how we further our careers. And so that’s what the Riveter has become, through a long and hard pivot. And on the one hand, on the space side, we are rebuilding riveter spaces, which is incredible. But we’re doing it in a really different way. During the pandemic, one of my incredible teammates, Heather Carter, who’d run our national co working operations, she built this app where she had called a coterie and she was doing it on her own, where our members could join, and then they could for a low monthly fee, they could book space at hotels to co work, and they could book conference rooms at hotels, it’s truly an amazing idea. And she came to me and we decided that we would partner and so the Riveter acquired coterie. So that’s now riveter spaces. So our co working members can go into our app for $25 a month, they can access hotels across the country and soon across the world, which is very exciting. And they have a place to work. I love it. Because I think even with co working, we even want more flexibility now than we did before the pandemic. I think a lot of us are mostly okay working at home. But we do sometimes need to have professional meetings, we do sometimes need to escape our kids. Like I don’t want to go to Starbucks to do that. Even though I love Starbucks, I want to be somewhere. And so this is a really low cost option to do that. And then we have our content where we focus really on what working women need. And we have digital events we now have in real life events again, and we have a newsletter, and we have our podcast. And then we’re also working on other ways that we can amplify and lift up women.

Kara Goldin 17:09
That’s amazing and amazing story of pivoting and doing something that’s needed to I mean, obviously, when people are traveling to which more and more people are sharing to do again, you have meetings places, and then you’re looking for Okay, where are we going to meet because many people don’t have an office anymore?

Amy Nelson 17:24
Totally. And I think like hotel co working is probably the OG co working like people are doing this for free and hotels forever. But you didn’t know if you’re welcome if you’re gonna get kicked out. Yeah, and with the Riveters app, you actually are welcomed, you get discounts on food and beverage, you even are unlocking discounts for hotel nights when you do want to travel. So it’s a really cool way for us to partner with hotels and, and it really is kind of the ultimate in flexibility.

Kara Goldin 17:47
So so interesting. And you’re not just women either right for membership.

Amy Nelson 17:52
That’s a really good point. So the Riveters original tagline was built by women for everyone. It is really important to me, I think having worked in male dominated spaces to acknowledge that women will not move forward in the workplace without the ally ship of men and all genders, right? Because men still take up so much oxygen, and that there are so many men who want the workplace to change for women. And so actually always 25% of our membership has been people who identify as men, which I think is really cool. And that shouldn’t be unusual. And that should be normal, that something that puts them in first also includes men, but it does feel still somewhat unusual.

Kara Goldin 18:29
Yeah, no, absolutely. So another thing happened in April of 2020, as you’re sort of dealing with, you know, everything going on with the Riveter and the world and your family and, you know, boom. Do you want to share a little bit about and you’ve talked a bit about this turmoil, pub walk Lee, so I just I’d love to kind of hear more.

Amy Nelson 18:51
Yeah. So kind of two weeks after the World shut down. My family’s life kind of shattered into 1000 pieces. We got a knock on the door at 645 in the morning on April 2 2020, at our house in Seattle, and it was the Federal Bureau of Investigation. And they were there to tell my husband that his former employer, Amazon had accused him of a crime called private sector honest services fraud, which is depriving your private sector employer of your honest services. Amazon had never approached my husband to tell them they thought he did something wrong during and after his employment. And they went to the FBI. And I’m a lawyer and I knew that was pretty serious and the FBI knocked on the door. And so over the past two and a half years, I mean, Amazon has met with the Department of Justice over 100 times lobbying them to charge my husband with a crime. He’s never been charged with a crime. They told the Department of Justice that funds had been diverted from Amazon and that they wanted the government to seize them. And so in May of 2020, the government did something called civil forfeiture, where I didn’t know this could happen which is It’s my privilege in life. But the government seized all of our family’s bank accounts. without charging my husband with a crime, or proving a crime, like no charges ever filed, they can take your money on suspicion that it’s related to a crime. They held our money for 22 months, and then gave it back to us. After the government seized our money, and Amazon knew that then Amazon sued my husband in federal court, and Virginia, which their contract requires that they would have sued him in Washington, but they said, we’re not doing that. We’re suing him in Virginia, where we’re trying to get him charged with a crime. And so it’s been very public. And we didn’t talk about it for a year. But after a year, an article came out, that really wrapped me into it, because it was a Seattle based publication, I was a pretty well known Seattle female founder. And that really started impacting my career. And, you know, I looked at my husband one day, and I said, I know that any crisis, PR person or many lawyers would tell us not to speak about this. But like, you know, what happened? I know what happened. And Amazon says, it’s a crime, you say it’s not. And so like, why don’t why don’t we tell your side of the story to because otherwise, Amazon just gets to tell the story. And they’re over here, waving their hands really loudly that this is a crime. So we started telling his story, we’ve told his story through my social media channels, we’ve told it through podcasts, it’s now been written about in The Washington Post in the Wall Street Journal. And it’s a big long saga. And it’s been really, really hard. We no longer live in Seattle, we had to sell our house to pay lawyers. We live in Ohio, where my family is. And you know, Kara, I’ve talked to you about this before. It’s like, I didn’t choose to be in Ohio. It’s not where I wanted to raise my kids. But the thing is, I’m choosing to see the beauty in it. And I’ve learned so much about my husband, so much about me so much about resiliency, and really hard lessons to learn, but like lessons that will help us for the rest of our lives.

Kara Goldin 21:55
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I’m sorry, you’re going through all of this. And and it’s it really is about resilience, not only for you, but for your family overall. Yeah, cuz it is, it is heartbreaking for anybody to be dealing with this. So you wrote on Twitter the other day that you never imagined how emotional trauma can really take effect on a person. And it really touched me because I think it really does hit people like you’re, you’re sort of, I think so many entrepreneurs are on this like wheel, right? That you’re constantly going, you’re used to like getting back up, hustling, and you just keep going and doesn’t matter if you get knocked down, you just keep getting back up. But at some point, you know, it hurts, right? Like and you realize that, you know, the mental stuff. And I can only imagine. I mean, it’s there aren’t very many people who can they haven’t been in your shoes, right? They’ve like watching their business having four kids homeschooled moving across. I mean, it’s just a lot. Right. And, and so like, what have you learned for like coping, I think more than anything, like you mentioned, being like focusing on the good things like that.

Amy Nelson 23:13
I mean, I think like one thing. So I talked about the physical manifestation of emotional trauma, like I actually got a tumor in my throat. And I had to have surgery and have it taken out. I’ve never had surgery in my life, like the only time I’ve ever been in hospitals for my kids, like, I’m not a person who’s dealt with illness. And I truly believe like, I got this might sound very woowoo. But like, I believe I got a tumor in my throat because I was silenced. And I started getting better when I started sharing the story. And I say that because sharing the story and talking has helped me immensely. That’s what’s helped me cope. I’m a storyteller. And I don’t mean that in that I make up stories. I mean that in that, like, ya know, our lives, story of your life of my life, like that’s what’s really important. And so sharing that is important to me. I also, I was not somebody who asked for help a lot. And I asked for help. And then the other thing is, like, I have embraced my weaknesses. Like as entrepreneurs, like you just said, like, we get up we go, we we don’t stop, you know, whatever hits us in the face. But in this situation of my life, like when I was brought to my knees, I had to be on my knees for a while. And now even now, like we’re at 910 days, and I count the days, 910 days into this, I still have bad days. And now when I have a bad day, I tell the people I work with, I’m having a bad day. And I’m not gonna get everything done today. And I’ll get it done the next day. And I do. But like, I allow myself to be with the pain and process it rather than continuing to try to move forward. Because if I don’t deal with it, it’s going to come the next day or the next day and just wash me over. And so I am fundamentally different and how I deal with things now than it was two and a half years

Kara Goldin 24:49
ago. Yeah, and I think that speaks to there are many people who maybe they’re not entrepreneurs, but they’re listening to this. I think the last couple of years have changed a lot of people and I think whether or not it’s your role, or your family or moving or whatever, the resilience even being resilient is strong and noble. But sometimes you just have days where you’re like, I need to just check out. And I that should be okay.

Amy Nelson 25:18
Yeah, sometimes a strong and noble thing is to let your heart feel what it feels. And like, I think I would have laughed at that for most of my life and said that was weak, you know. And it’s, it’s, it’s a 360 degree thing to get to where we are. But to your point, like, some what I’ve been through is extreme, but a lot of people have been through as extreme, but like, whose life looks like it didn’t march of 2020, who hasn’t lost them when they left, who hasn’t moved to a different city who hasn’t taken one or two new jobs. Like, it’s all different for almost everybody.

Kara Goldin 25:48
I mean, even my kids who are in college, I, it was interesting, I was talking to my son about this. He mentioned that he never really thought that he needed to be around people like he, for him. He craves when he gets out of college and finds a job is like this whole remote thing. Like, I mean, I want to be where I can actually be around other people. And I’ve heard this more and more from people too. It’s the learnings just keep coming of, and they’re different for different people. Yep. So I think it’s really valid. And I think more and more people are going to start talking about that as well. But anyway, I’m really sorry for everything you’re going through. And I hope that it sounds like things are working their way through. And even in the last year since you and I originally talked about it, it seems like it’s getting better.

Amy Nelson 26:43
And I would say to it’s funny, like I find myself here talking to you, when your family goes through public trauma, and it impacts your career, it impacts your relationships, like you can imagine pretty easily that like, everyone’s gonna shame you and walk away from you. And it just, if anybody’s listening to this, that there’s like one thing to take away, it’s like, don’t be afraid to share the worst things that happened to you, because you’ll be surprised at how amazing people will be.

Kara Goldin 27:06
Yeah, and the people that show up and stick by you too, are maybe not the people that in your everyday life when nothing was going on was actually there. But I think it’s a really, really valid point. So I love that. And then kind of full circle. I mean, you talked a little bit about this. But with now the Riveter is more and more coming into its rejuvenation for neighs right now that more and more people are kind of, you know, looking for alternatives to have space. So the peaks and valleys are definitely there. But you have to believe that the good continues to happen in whatever you’re doing. So well, I absolutely love everything that you’ve built. And I admire you greatly for everything that you’ve gone through and that you have shared with us I always did admire you, you and I have known each other for a while. But I think even more so just watching you sort of weather the storm. So and I think I’m confident that you’re going to be stronger in the end and and you know, your kids will be incredibly knowledgeable and, and strong individuals as well. And definitely will be excited to sort of hear how everything’s going in the future, too. So thank you again, for joining us. It was a pleasure talking to you, Amy. And although it’s hard stuff, I think that this is stuff that everybody needs to know about. And it just builds even more appreciation for the journey whether you’re going through it or whether you’ve seen the Riveter and you’re curious what’s going on or seeing Amy Nelson’s tweets along the way you can hear a little bit more and you’re like me, and I want to stand behind her and definitely support her anyway I can. So thank you again, and everybody have a great rest of the week. Thanks, Kara. Thanks all for listening to this episode. We hope you enjoyed it. And I want to thank all of our guests and our sponsors. And finally our listeners keep the great comments coming in. And one final plug if you have not read or listened to my book undaunted, please do so you will hear all about my journey, including founding, scaling and building the company that I founded hint we are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks everyone for listening and goodbye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to six lead in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time, you’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight? Send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening