Tiffany Zhong – The World’s Youngest Venture Capitalist and Founder and CEO of Zebra IQ, Advising Brands on Gen Z Trends
Episode 41
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Kara Goldin: Hi everybody. It’s Kara Goldin from Unstoppable. We’re so excited to have Tiffany Zhong here today with Zebra IQ. Hi Tiffany.
Tiffany Zhong: Hi Kara.
Kara Goldin: How are you?
Tiffany Zhong: Excited to be here.
Kara Goldin: Yeah, super excited. Tiffany is a friend of mine and so super excited. I haven’t seen her in a little while. I’m excited to have her in here to just talk a little bit about what she sees in the whole gen Z generation and just overall with Zebra IQ. Anyway, welcome. Welcome, welcome.
Tiffany Zhong: Thank you.
Kara Goldin: A little bit of info on Tiffany in case you are not aware of who Tiffany is, you must be hiding under a rock if you don’t know who she is. Forbes 30 Under 30 Marketing and Advertising, Vanity Fair’s Future Innovators, love that, and Adweek Young Influentials Forbes Top 10 Gen Z Experts. I love that, and Wall Street Journal’s Youngest VC. Wow, that’s an amazing, I love it. I love it.
Tiffany Zhong: Back in the day.
Kara Goldin: Back in the day. Very, very cool. Tiffany Zhong is the gen Z decoder. She’s in her early 20s and 23, can I say that?
Tiffany Zhong: Yeah.
Kara Goldin: 23 years old.
Tiffany Zhong: Recently turned 23. I’m not under 20 anymore.
Kara Goldin: How was your birthday?
Tiffany Zhong: It’s good. I celebrated it with close friends so it was great.
Good. Lives here in San Francisco, and is one of the most sought-after young trends and marketing experts as the founder and CEO of Zebra IQ. She’s worked with Snapchat, Levi Strauss, Turner Broadcasting. Did you know I used to work there?
Tiffany Zhong: Really?
Kara Goldin: Ages ago. Ages ago. Google and other major companies to help them reach the youth and stay relevant. Her mission is to help brands better understand the gen Z offering overall and just how to basically get them real time feedback on the gen Z consumers. We’re going to dive a little bit into more of some of Tiffany’s background, but again, welcome. Tell me a little bit about Tiffany. How did you get to this point at the old age of 23 being where you are today? I think it’s so awesome. It’s great.
Tiffany Zhong: I grew up in Silicon Valley, was lucky enough to grow up here and be exposed to all the startups and technology in the area. My parents are also entrepreneurs, have been building companies low key just a whole life. I was inspired by that. Since a young age I’ve always wanted to invent things. When I was a kid I wanted to build robots, things like that. As the years progressed, I realized that it’d be a lot easier to build things on the internet, so I switched more to that. Then when I was in high school I started using Twitter, which really led me to meeting a lot of really smart people in tech, from founders to investors to operators to folks all over. I realized that I was able to meet anyone just through Twitter and it was the craziest realization ever.
Kara Goldin: Was that your first social platform then?
Tiffany Zhong: That was my first main I guess like business related, networking related social platform. I had Instagram and Snapchat but I wasn’t using that to meet people but on Twitter I was just asking very prominent VCs and founders just questions. If they reply I would follow up.
Kara Goldin: I love it.
Tiffany Zhong: I would just follow up like every few days with new questions. I was just curious and I had nothing to lose. That was probably the biggest thing when I was like 16, 15 or 16 and starting to use Twitter, I had nothing to lose. No one knew who I was. I was like, if something bad happens I can just change my name.
Kara Goldin: You never did that.
Tiffany Zhong: I never did that. Somehow it has escalated into me working at Product Hunt in 2015, early 2015. Then joining a $300 million VC firm focused on early stage consumer tech where I met the founders. They really liked how I thought about just consumer products, consumer apps and how they related to this next generation. I thought it would just be really helpful on the investment side as well as on the portfolio company side where I could be helpful to the founders by bringing in this new perspective as opposed to most VCs being millennials or boomers.
Kara Goldin: That’s awesome. I feel like there’s a couple, there’s lots of things that I want to ask you, but I think in addition to where I think you’ve really captured the market in terms of being able to educate these great companies about the gen Z, what do you think you had in you as a kid to be able to just go out and go on Twitter? I mean, you’re fearless, right? There’s a whole thing there that I feel like you just didn’t have the walls that I see in so many people, young and old, that just allow you to just go out and just do it. What would you say to somebody who is trying to figure out their career in such a young age? Do you just get going? I mean, what do you do?
Tiffany Zhong: I think the biggest quote that I think about a lot is you miss all the shots you don’t take. So why not? It’s like you have nothing to lose.
Kara Goldin: That’s a good one.
Tiffany Zhong: If you think about that for every single decision that you might be scared of making or just taking the leap, you have nothing to lose for the most part.
Kara Goldin: So key, I love it.
Tiffany Zhong: For the most part, 99% of the time, there’s probably 1% of the time where you might have something to lose, but you just got to do the analysis on that part.
Kara Goldin: That was me. That was 100% me. They didn’t have Twitter when I was getting started, but for me I left, I grew up in Arizona and I moved to New York and I didn’t know anybody. I just literally landed there. I didn’t really even know what a subway was other than the fact that I had seen it in movies. I didn’t really know how to get on one or that I didn’t really focus on the fact that they were actually underground and that you had to go through a turnstile and buy a coin. I just didn’t understand how the whole thing worked.
Tiffany Zhong: Growing up without the internet seems so hard.
Kara Goldin: No, it’s crazy. It’s insane. I mean, I could tell you millions of stories but I won’t bore everybody about it. Dial up and fighting with your siblings about making sure that they weren’t on the phone while you were on the computer because you get disconnected. Can you imagine in a chat room, you’re trying to have a full on conversation and then all of a sudden you get disconnected because your asshole brother has decided that he’s just going to get on the telephone?
Tiffany Zhong: Now you can just spam text your friends anytime you want.
Kara Goldin: Anytime you want.
Tiffany Zhong: You’re literally just taking their attention and time.
Kara Goldin: Yeah, no totally. It’s crazy, crazy, crazy. Anyway, I see a lot of what you’ve done and what you’re going to be doing and sort of me as when I was getting started.
Tiffany Zhong: Wow.
Kara Goldin: I’m writing a book actually, I don’t know if I told you this, but I’m writing a book and it’ll be out in October with HarperCollins and it’s called Undaunted. There’s a lot of stories about my views on just going out and doing it and taking the shots like you have nothing to lose.
Tiffany Zhong: Exactly. I’m excited to read it.
Kara Goldin: Yeah, it’ll be super fun. You went out, you just emailed everybody.
Tiffany Zhong: I didn’t know how to do cold emails.
Kara Goldin: That’s awesome.
Tiffany Zhong: I still am not that great at cold emails. It was just like-
Kara Goldin: Messaging.
Tiffany Zhong: Tweets, and people would post something on Twitter. I would just reply being like, why do you think this way? I’ll do it in a really like non aggressive or confrontational way as opposed to most people on Twitter where they’re trying to troll you or troll these famous people or trying to put them down. I was just curious. It’s just bringing that mood to the table as well, it’s just different than how I saw a lot of people using Twitter. I think at the end of the day it’s just thinking about mindset shifts and that’s like one of them. I think more people would benefit from doing these kind of thought exercises around mindset shifts and what different types of mindsets they should adopt each year.
Kara Goldin: I love it. I love it. Did you take engineering classes? What was your passion like in high school?
Tiffany Zhong: I was terrible at school. I got to put so much effort into school into being a decent student, but if I just didn’t put all the hard work in I was just a terrible natural student. I just did not like school. I didn’t like homework. I didn’t like tests. In my free time I was just figuring out ways to build businesses on the internet.
Kara Goldin: That’s amazing.
Tiffany Zhong: I started an online magazine when I was 16 focusing on music, new artists, new technology and new fashion trends. That was really a way for me to just experiment with different ideas and have a media platform to do so and also get just backstage access to a lot of these events and launches that you couldn’t get otherwise if you didn’t have a so-called media brand under it. I use that to just finesse so many backstage passes to things and free products, all sorts of stuff. It was fun times.
Kara Goldin: And have fun.
Tiffany Zhong: Yeah.
Kara Goldin: Have fun along the way.
Tiffany Zhong: The Chainsmokers, we discovered them in the early days. They were emailing us, just telling us to share their songs before they blew up from Selfie.
Kara Goldin: I love it. I love it, being able to do all of that. Talk to us about gen Z trends today and what do you see happening overall?
Tiffany Zhong: I think the biggest thing with gen Z versus millennials is that gen Z grew up mobile first and millennials grew up internet first for the most part. That’s a big paradigm shift when you think about how gen Z treats tech products and apps and ads and marketing where they have such a high BS meter when they’re scrolling through social media that your content better catch the eye in 0.01 seconds if you’re trying to appeal to them. You see on Instagram just everyone is selling some sort of thing these days, there’s ads everywhere. How do you build an organic relationship with your customers? How do you build an actual community as opposed to a one way customer sales type of relationship? That’s a big thing we’re seeing around gen Z and also just different ways of consuming content. It’s just we’re able to consume content so much faster because it’s just more intuitive for us. We also skip a lot of bad content once we see it. Just consuming so much content every day.
Kara Goldin: That’s true.
Tiffany Zhong: Snapchat, TikTok, YouTube, everything.
Kara Goldin: Yeah, it’s really, really true. What do you think is an app that’s changing, how do I say this? That’s challenging some of the other apps in the way that maybe changes behaviors of gen Z and expectations of gen Z. Do you see one out there that is really shifting and moving people?
Tiffany Zhong: The obvious one is TikTok, where TikTok has built a platform where people can actually be their true selves and put their selves out there without having any barrier or perception that they’re trying to show. You have a higher chance of going viral if you act more like your weird self than acting like a polished self, which is very different than Instagram and Twitter and Facebook and even YouTube. We’re now beginning to see a shift in gen Z where gen Z is now more open to being themselves because of TikTok. That’s translating to YouTube as well, where vloggers are being themselves. A big example is Emma Chamberlain who has very raw footage and her vlogs get millions of views every day, but it’s just her being herself. People see her as a friend as opposed to an influencer who is out of reach or a celebrity. She doesn’t like being called an influencer either. She likes being perceived as a friend and an entertainer. I love that. It’s so gen Z to think like that where we’re making TikTok videos because we want to entertain other people and our friends. I just really liked that shift as opposed to a more performance-based kind of online branding.
Kara Goldin: What do you think about the information society and data just as a whole? I’ve heard people talk about TikTok in particular as tracking exactly what is going on in different societies where they’re happening. I don’t think it’s any big secret that the company is owned by the Chinese government. Did you know that?
Tiffany Zhong: Yeah.
Kara Goldin: A big chunk of it.
Tiffany Zhong: I mean, their claims are that they will not share any sort of info to the Chinese government. I don’t have details around that. When we think about data and privacy, that is obviously really scary, but then again, we are all using Google products and our whole life is consumed by Google and Amazon primarily. They have all the personalization data around us. What we’ve seen with Amazon Alexa now, or what we’re saying in our house and they’re checking all of that. People are freaking out about privacy and data, but they don’t realize it’s already in their own home. It’s already happening in America. I think it’s less of a country division between like China versus America. I just think it’s more so these major companies and how their thinking about privacy, how they’re thinking about putting that data back into the consumer’s hands and giving consumers the flexibility to own and share specific sorts of data that they want to share.
Kara Goldin: No, I think it’s companies, I think it’s countries. I think that we’re seeing who owns this data. I think it’s a really interesting topic. I think there’s legal issues too when you look at like the number of minorities and gen Zs that are actually on TikTok too that it’s like, are we actually segmenting and trying to look at different cultural behaviors? Whether or not all of that is legal as well. You know, I think a really, really interesting topic. I saw, my kids are teenagers and they’re on TikTok. The fact that they’re signing off their rights and they’re not 18, I think there’s a lot of people that would say like that’s not valid. What ultimately is going to happen, it’ll be very, very interesting.
Tiffany Zhong: Yeah, there was a joke I saw on Twitter recently that Instagram and Snapchat are using AR filters so that they can get our facial data, which would be wild.
Kara Goldin: I’m not surprised. Yeah, I’m not surprised.
Tiffany Zhong: It’s 2020 so who knows, anything is possible.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. I’m not surprised at all but I do think it would be, I don’t know, I want to get a lawyer on here at some point just to come in and talk about some of these issues because I think it’s really, really fascinating. I do think that TikTok has changed the game for Instagram. As these apps start to get more dependent on ads. It’s good to hear that you think that it’s transitioning over to YouTube though in terms of where other people, it’s not just TikTok.
Tiffany Zhong: YouTube will always be a thing.
Kara Goldin: I know, I think so too. I think I like it.
Tiffany Zhong: TikTok, another thing that’s scary about all these kids posting on TikTok is they’re just exposing their home and where they live and everything about their life and that’s so dangerous. There are crazy people out there.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. No, no, no. I think you’re 100% right. I think that whether or not kids are really realizing it. They just they don’t care or they don’t think about it.
Tiffany Zhong: There are adults that don’t even realize that or think about that.
Kara Goldin: No, no, no. I think that’s absolutely right. I think it’s a little bit scary. Going on to, we were talking a little bit about when I first met you, you had like two people in your company, now you’re up to 10 which is awesome. Right? It’s so great. I love hearing when entrepreneurs are growing and doing great things. What are you working on right now? What’s the most exciting stuff that you’re working on?
Tiffany Zhong: We’re a fully remote team, which is really interesting and has given us the ability to ship products very quickly and seamlessly just across all the different time zones. What we’re focused on right now is we recently launched a new version of our mobile app which lets gen Zs, the millennials answer questions and surveys and can earn rewards, money, bitcoin, et cetera through answering surveys. Basically, get paid to share your opinion and share your feedback on specific brands and products. We’re also helping brands build branded communities where they can invite their top fans and send them surveys, send them free products, get their feedback, whether it’s physical products or digital products.
We’re working with a lot of retail and CPG companies that are just major players in the game. It’s been interesting seeing how there’s been a big shift in brands actually caring about communities. That’s what we’re building a lot of our tooling for. We’re going to launch a self-service platform where anyone will be able to go in and ask questions to any gen Z group whenever they want, which is game-changing. It just doesn’t exist today. It’s what I set out to build two years ago when I started this company. I’m super excited to launch that.
Kara Goldin: If you’re looking to get into the gen Z market, do you think that this is critical? To be able to really get into, you’ve got a community. Do you think working with your existing gen Z community or do you think you can actually find the gen Z community by going in and asking questions?
Tiffany Zhong: Both our panel is just growing exponentially, our community of gen Zs is growing exponentially. We’re able to help brands, companies recruit new communities, new panel members if they wanted or they can use our existing community.
Kara Goldin: I love it, through mobile?
Tiffany Zhong: Through mobile, only mobile, but every startup, every company that cares about surviving in the next like five, 10 years should start thinking about gen Z. Whether you’re a startup with two people, one person, or you’re a Fortune 500 company, Fortune 100 company that are still stuck in the millennial days.
Kara Goldin: You’ve said that brands should turn their email lists and social media followers and website visitors into their own research panel. What do you think is like, I love that idea. What do you think is the key thing? Like you’ve got this email, you’ve got whatever, a thousand names, how do you do that ultimately?
Tiffany Zhong: That’s the product that we’re building out, which lets brands be able to import their customers, their users, and engage with them with live chat, video chat. You can schedule video interviews with specific people in your panel or outside of your panel and in our overall Zebra community as well to just get feedback really quickly. I think a lot of companies need to start spending more time around their community managers and realizing that community managers are super important. You do a great job around building community and actually caring about community managers, but we see a lot of brands that just think of it as a thing they should do on the side and it’s so crucial. I think your brand and your community is how you’re going to build the moat. It’s less so kind of anything else, but it’s really just how you’re building that relationship with your target customers.
Kara Goldin: That you’re listening. Yeah.
Tiffany Zhong: That you’re listening.
Kara Goldin: I think that what I’ve seen too that I think you definitely understand is that it’s not just about answering questions, it’s also about engagement and actually having a conversation. While you’re listening, also having a dialogue, right? I think that a dialogue for brands can ultimately turn into a revenue stream, right? There’s a lot of trust that gets built if you are actually having a back and forth conversation instead of saying, yes, no.
Tiffany Zhong: Trust leads to loyalty.
Kara Goldin: Trust leads to loyalty.
Tiffany Zhong: Which is the hardest thing for brands around reaching gen Z right now where loyalty can disappear or not even appear in a split second where there’s so many options for every single product or vertical that gen Z wants to buy, whether it’s mattresses, anything really.
Kara Goldin: More than anything. What do you think is the gen Z brand? A couple of them today that you think are definitely gen Z.
Tiffany Zhong: Snapchat obviously crushes it on gen Z.
Kara Goldin: What about consumer products?
Tiffany Zhong: Consumer products, Nike is really good. Nike and Adidas really, really understand.
Kara Goldin: Are there any homegrown gen Z brands that you see out there that are, I feel like there’s makeup brands that are-
Tiffany Zhong: Like Glossier.
Kara Goldin: Yeah, I think that Glossier is a great example.
Tiffany Zhong: Because they emphasize on building a community from day one.
Yeah, brands like North Face, Patagonia, very, very gen Z as well.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. What do you think are the key things? You mentioned Patagonia. I mean, do you think they care a lot about sustainability? Do you think that’s less of a concern than for a millennial for example?
Tiffany Zhong: I think gen Z cares more about that than a millennial. I think because of all the options out there, they are going to want to choose the brands that are more sustainable than the ones that are not. It just shows that a lot of the new direct to consumer brands can move faster and brand themselves around that versus traditional old stodgy brands, they have a hard time shifting their supply chain and shifting their whole branding, marketing, their product, everything around that. We’ve just seen so many new direct to consumer startups that are focused on that.
Kara Goldin: I feel like they’re all active too that I feel like I mean that’s a word that I think, they’re not brands that are just boring and stale. They’re brands that are very active in some way, shape, or form. How do you recruit these people for gen Zs coming into the workforce? What do you think are some of the key things that really differentiate them from maybe a millennial?
Tiffany Zhong: Really caring about their personal growth and personal development is an important thing no matter how large your company is. It doesn’t give you an excuse to just treat the gen Z as an intern or treat them with just boring tasks that they don’t even want to do. It’s taking the time to understand them and realizing that they have goals as well and how you can help them achieve that, how you can realize that gen Z wants to have freedom and autonomy in the workplace. They want to be in charge of projects and given the independence to do that. Really just trusting that this generation can do what they say they can do is a big thing. Especially with the fact that you can practically search up anything on Google these days.
Kara Goldin: Yeah, I think it’s true.
Tiffany Zhong: You can just trust them.
Kara Goldin: It’s interesting. Somebody was saying-
Tiffany Zhong: You literally done that with so many young people you’ve brought on.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. No, I think-
Tiffany Zhong: That’s clear here.
Kara Goldin: We’re not perfect by any stretch, but I think we try. We try. Somebody was saying to me the other day that gen Z generation has grown up with at least in school with being very project-based. A lot of the educational system shifted from, you go and work on these projects, whether it’s history or math or whatever. Unfortunately, grades have still remained like you got to achieve, you got to get high grades. All these people have really been focused on how do I overachieve and do these projects and do these projects.
By the time they actually get into the workforce, they’re like, okay, I want to do something that I really love, that I’m really passionate about, versus there are so many millennials, I think that jumped in the workforce saying that’s the next step that I have to do. I get out of school and then I have to go find a job because I have to make money. Then a lot of them are actually waking up and realizing maybe I should actually do something that I really want to do and really like. Gen Z is coming into the workforce saying, I want to go do project work. I don’t have to go into a company that is like, I’m going to be there forever. I’m going to go in and really go in and see what it’s all about. Am I going to learn? Am I going to grow? They have to really like it, they have to like the project.
Tiffany Zhong: Yeah. It’s cool that there’s so many gen Zs that realize that they can carve their own path because of so many examples that are existing now that are always in the news. When you see all of these younger entrepreneurs that are able to build something from scratch and turn that into a success, it’s just inspirational and shows that anyone can do it. I love kind of those stories that prove that anyone can do basically anything.
Kara Goldin: I love it.
Tiffany Zhong: It’s just really believing in yourself and surrounding yourself with the right people in my opinion.
Kara Goldin: That’s awesome. Your parents are entrepreneurs?
Tiffany Zhong: My parents are entrepreneurs. I think a big thing they instilled into me that we’ve talked about at the start of this was that they really just believed in me and all the different things that I wanted to do and explore. I used to play tennis competitively. I tried a bunch of different sports before that when I was in elementary school. I’ve also, when I was a kid I was also playing chess competitively. What else? Middle school, the clarinet, did competitions for that too. All these different things helped me figure out what I wanted to do.
Kara Goldin: All part of the journey.
Tiffany Zhong: Yeah. My parents just like, let me explore as opposed to trying to drive me down a specific path that they believed would lead me to the success that they thought.
Kara Goldin: I think that’s a really important aspect. I mean even though you’re not a parent yet, I think it’s a parenting aspect that everybody should listen to because I think supporting your kids’ interests and helping them to actually figure it out is what the journey is all about. It’s what education is all about it. It’s what sports is all about like, it’s just go try, right? Keep moving and keep doing things and then you get to be as proud as I am of Tiffany. Right? I mean, you’ve done amazing, amazing job. I always ask this of my guests. What makes you unstoppable? I have a few ideas, but I think you’re-
Tiffany Zhong: That I am blindly optimistic about myself, my future, everything that I work on. I think that’s a big one.
Also, just work ethic.
Kara Goldin: I love it.
Tiffany Zhong: What were yours going to be?
Kara Goldin: I think you’re optimistic, but I think you just, I don’t know, I think that there’s something very refreshing in seeing you and talking to you because you just do, right? I mean, there’s a lot of people who just don’t show up, right? I think with you, I’ve just seen you really hustle like over the short time that I’ve known you where you just like, I mean, I remember you came and helped us out at our outside lands event, right? Just showing up there a little bit and just saying like, hey, I’m here, just want to support you guys. I just think that’s just a really important aspect where you’re just willing to just learn and do things along the way, but you’re just also just willing to try things, right?
I think just the concept of trying and if it doesn’t work, then you go down the next lane, pivot, whatever you want to call it. I think that’s a really, really important skill that I don’t think we pay enough attention to and we don’t celebrate it enough in people. I think we have a certain set of people, and maybe it’s the way that we teach kids today. I’ve often thought about this as you’ve got to go and do this project as we were talking about a minute ago. The whole concept of failure is like way too-
Tiffany Zhong: Harsh.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. Like you’ve failed, if you get a C on something, that’s considered failure in most people’s mind.
Tiffany Zhong: Every kid learns differently too.
Kara Goldin: Totally.
Tiffany Zhong: Which schools don’t take into account for the most part.
Kara Goldin: I think for you it’s just some experiences are better than other experiences, but I also just think that the fact that even you’re focusing on gen Z it’s also, you want to learn. I don’t think you’ve ever shut off your learning, right?
Tiffany Zhong: I’m curious about everything.
Kara Goldin: You’re curious. Right? I think that that is, I always talk about like curiosity is probably the biggest aspect that I look for, not only other entrepreneurs but also employees. I think anybody can switch industries and go and work in the water business even if they’ve been in tech, as long as you’re curious, right, and you want to do new things and learn new things. I think that’s really important. That would be what makes you unstoppable because I think it’s also, looking at what other people don’t do when I think about unstoppable and I ask the question why they don’t. I think that’s a gem that you should hold on your shoulder as like, yeah, I’m doing that.
Tiffany Zhong: Most people are just too scared for whatever potential negative consequences that they’ve just made up in their mind.
Kara Goldin: Yeah.
Tiffany Zhong: They’re not real.
Kara Goldin: I think that’s totally true. It’s something that I often think about like how do we break that in people because I don’t think they intend to grow up and be that way, but they end up getting fixed that way.
Tiffany Zhong: Trying new experiences constantly probably helps you break that barrier down a little. Little by little.
Kara Goldin: Yup, very, very. Where can people find you? Where can people find just Zebra IQ and learn more about? Everything Tiffany.
Tiffany Zhong: I’m @tzhongg, T-Z-H-O-N-G-G on most platforms, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn.
Kara Goldin: Is Twitter still your favorite?
Tiffany Zhong: Twitter is still my favorite.
Kara Goldin: Mine too.
Tiffany Zhong: Yeah, we just started there, how I met most of my friends actually which is insane.
Kara Goldin: I love it. I love it.
Tiffany Zhong: It’s my favorite thing.
Kara Goldin: Then Zebra IQ.
Tiffany Zhong: @zebraiq everywhere, zebraiq.com for more info.
Kara Goldin: Awesome. Thank you. This has been really fun.
Tiffany Zhong: Thank you for having me.
Kara Goldin: That’s great. Yeah, thanks.
