Max Baumann: Founder & CEO of Basemakers

Episode 318

Serial entrepreneur, Founder & CEO of Basemakers, Max Baumann, knows all about success, challenges, and learning from the journey. Max shares his newest success, Basemakers, and how this retail sales & merchandising organization has supported over 250 of the top food & beverage companies to help make them successful. Max launched his first business, The Chill Group, Inc., at age 21. We talk all about having a goal, being able to pivot, and how entrepreneurship isn’t a straight line. This episode is gold and oh-so inspiring. Don’t miss it! On this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow.

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. It’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. And I am so excited to have my next guest. Here we have Max Baumann, who is the founder and CEO of bass makers. And I actually know Max from a little further back. He’s been in the beverage industry for a while he had been the founder and CEO and entrepreneur for an incredible brand called the chill group, which he launched at age 21, by the way, so just so so proud of him on many, many levels, such an A great example of a serial entrepreneur. But today, he is the founder and CEO of base makers. And I wanted to have him on because he has gone from being a brand entrepreneur to actually launching a service company, where he saw this need in the market that I think is just absolutely incredible and valuable to entrepreneurs, for sure. So pacemakers, is a retail sales and merchandising organization that has worked with over 250 of the top food and beverage companies to support them and help make them successful. So Max will definitely chat with us a little bit more about that. And also some of the other things that he’s done along the way, including company called Bear Power foods that we’ll chat about too. So really excited to hear more about his entrepreneurial journey. So welcome, Max, how are you?

Max Baumann 2:20
I’m great. Thanks for having me, Kara.

Kara Goldin 2:22
Yeah, absolutely. Very, very excited. So first of all, let’s talk about bass maker. So I’d love for you to share with our listeners who aren’t familiar with bass makers. What is it?

Max Baumann 2:33
So bass makers is the company you call once you get on to a retail or shelf and you want to move more. So what we do is we go in, we do merchandising, so stocking shelves, making sure there’s availability, filling voids, on shelf, to field sales, which is actually selling in those displays going from the dry shelf to the coal box, all the activities that make your products move more.

Kara Goldin 2:58
Very cool. So you weren’t always in the service business. In fact, this was kind of your first foray officially into that business, especially outside of your own company. So how did you get this idea to actually go and launch pacemakers?

Max Baumann 3:16
Yeah, that was it was a crazy kind of moments of inspiration that came up. And I think the best way to say is, is going back when I was running the chill group with the brand, just chill. We started selling first bootstrapping out of the back of a pickup truck selling into taco shops. Finally, we got Whole Foods, we started expanding into more and more whole foods, then we got to regional Whole Foods, second region, third region, we’ve raised some raised some money. So we started hiring a lot of area sales managers. And what we noticed is with the area sales managers when they went into an account, and when they were able to get big Encap display, or when they moved us from the dry shelves to the coal box, it was the only thing that we looked at when we looked at that whole foods portal data that we saw a big lift and a sustained lift even more so than in store sampling. So we had this kind of aha moment. The one problem was we were burning 10s of 1000s of dollars per month. And we were looking at Wow, even though we just raised money, this isn’t gonna last forever, especially when you get into more and more states, then you have to have more and more people. There’s only a certain geography that one area sales manager could do. So then I actually we attended a group called the founders forum that VEB from Coca Cola put together you were in it. You’re one of the entrepreneurs in it. Yeah. And there were 14 other entrepreneurs. And I remember the first day the moderator wrote, what are the biggest challenges on the whiteboard, and we all put on post it notes, what the challenges were, I looked up there, and I saw the biggest thing around distribution and retail execution, where some people would walk into stores are supposed to have 10 skews on the shelf. They only see five, they walk into another store. You see this competitor with this big end cap and side stacks and they’re distrib You’re all over the store, you can’t miss them. And then you’re in the well, and you can’t find the product. So it was really around, wow, it’s not just me having this issue. It’s all these awesome entrepreneurs and a lot of brands that were bigger than us at that stage too. So at that point, I made the decision to start a side company that was designed to support just chill and other emerging brands, now called pacemakers.

Kara Goldin 5:24
So, so needed. So you know, it’s interesting, as I listening to you talk about this. I don’t think any entrepreneur ever thinks about that aspect of their business when they’re making that big decision to create a company or a brand. But it’s sort of like everyone’s Vietnam, especially when you’re just getting started. And you’re trying to figure out, how do I actually get the merchandising and the SKU mix out there that’s supposed to be on the shelf? And how do I pull stuff out of the backroom? So I think that that is so so needed, and so great that you decided to fill that hole. So what was kind of the first thing that you did then? Because again, you had never been in this business outside of doing your own brand? I mean, what was kind of the, the launch of that?

Max Baumann 6:17
Great question. So we started with one person in LA, and I’m a big believer in pilots, starting small getting the lessons before you scale out. And also, quite frankly, we did it without any investor dollars. So I had $4,000, I pulled out of my savings. And we had one person in LA and we’re like, let’s just see if this works. So I called up all my friends in the industry, ask them if they needed the service. And at that time, it was $70 per stop. And a lot of them surprisingly, they came back and they’re like, yeah, we’ll give you a shout max. And that able to able to give us the cash flow that we needed, besides the $4,000 to get a full time person. And that led to two full time people. And then all of a sudden, we finished the first year and I look at the p&l, and we’re profitable. And I was like, wow, I wasn’t used to that running a beverage company. And just like always seemed red and like, okay, when’s the break even point. So from that point on, we just grew every single year, we hadn’t had one year that we were in the red. And we had one really tough year and 2020. But yeah, it was something that I just learned as I went. And the biggest thing that helped me was obviously being on that side knowing what I wanted, because I was speaking to my target consumer, which were brand owners or people who were VP of sales at those companies, and just listening and really beta testing the product with the actual brand owners. And that helped a lot.

Kara Goldin 7:44
What’s kind of the focus then in terms of types of stores that you’re going into? Are you going into the whole foods and conventional grocery store? What about C stores? What’s sort of the focus at this point.

Max Baumann 7:56
So our main focus is large format grocery stores, and we basically touch almost all of them. We work in 20 Different states, we just don’t touch Walmart at the current moment, but Whole Foods, you look at Kroger, you look at Albertsons, even the small, small ones like Erawan, Bristol Farms, we touch about 40 different chain banners, and out of those 40 banners, about 5000 doors, and we touch them at least twice per each month, sometimes four times per month. And we just work with each brand owner. And we have about five different full time brand partner managers that really try and deliver on that customer service aspect and work with them. And then they help them navigate the big field team that’s out there.

Kara Goldin 8:42
So outside of profitability that you mentioned from almost from the get go, what’s kind of the key difference that you see in running a company like this, versus launching your own brand?

Max Baumann 8:57
You always hear and I wouldn’t say that on a service based company people are more important. But um, it’s literally people are your product, right? So you have to hire phenomenal people. And there’s a big lesson that I learned really quickly, that you can have an all star contributor who’s phenomenal at getting the job done, shows up on time, really pursues excellence, is a great communicator across the team, but then you can put them in a manager role. And they tend to have this almost kind of militant authoritative, like if you’re not at this level, and that generally doesn’t work as well as someone that enrolls people ask more questions really builds the trust. And that was one big difference that I saw immediately was you have to have a very, very, very quick attention to detail with each person and look at who you’re going to get these different roles and for us bootstrapping we didn’t hire executives from the Echo, we’ve since we brought in a CEO who was very well established as we got bigger. But that was one One big challenge is finding the right people that, you know, going from that individual contributor to that management level.

Kara Goldin 10:13
Super great insight. So, when you were starting out in, in this industry, we mentioned this before, but just chill was at age, you were only 21 years old, you decided to start your first beverage company. So talk to me about that. How did that idea come about?

Max Baumann 10:32
So originally, I wanted to be a pro surfer. I didn’t think I was going to be in the beverage industry or even business worlds. I was so bullish about living a life where I could travel to different countries and surf and I, I did read a lot of books. But all my books were focused on high performance psychology, which we can get into later, because there was a lot of insights and parallels that I drew between the two. But on my way to Australia, to a surf trip to Australia, I noticed something, I’m going through this airport, and there’s mile long security lines, there’s the LAPD, right when I’m walking through the doors, honking horns riding tickets, there’s nervous first time travelers. So you get past the security screening. And then you look at there’s people sleeping on floors, and then people drinking a lot alcohol. And it could be like 7am on a workday. And you’re like this is pretty chaotic. So I thought in this world, where energy drinks were absolutely exploding, that there could be a yin to that Yang, a better for you. product that could reduce stress without drowsiness. And that was the whole concept meditation and a can really is something that can give you that big deep breath, sigh of relief with nootropics and reduce stress and and help you achieve your goals.

Kara Goldin 11:52
And so how long were you running that company before you ultimately sold it?

Max Baumann 11:57
So started it in 2009. And the product actually came out in 2010. We got our first truckload and I sold it in 2018. So about eight years,

Kara Goldin 12:11
what do you think was kind of the hardest lesson you learned and and getting it off the ground, you had an idea for a product that would be the Yang I guess and they in in the energy drinks. But what was kind of the biggest aha moment from all of those years of launching a brand that you want to share?

Max Baumann 12:32
I would say there’s two things that really stood out. I mean, one just kind of I would say this is kind of a pretext to those two things, but it’s going to cost twice as much as you think. And it’s gonna take twice as long as you think. And I think there’s a lot of entrepreneurs that get into the industry, and they’re like, oh, yeah, we raised this and then that and then this is going to happen and people are going to want to get on the shelf, people are going to be gravitating towards it. And the first lesson that I would call out which kind of parallels into what we’re doing now is getting on the shelf is one thing, getting it to move off the shelf is a whole different bag of worms. And that’s the difficult one to really do is making sure when you’re on the shelf, you’re building sales velocity. So that was the big insight and figuring out the strategy to do that. And all business really at the end of the day is about resource versus impact, you know, with what you put in from your time, energy and finance side, with the with the people in place, what are you getting out? And obviously a traditional financial scoreboard, your revenue, your growth rate, profitability or gross margin? So you’re kind of looking at those things from resource for syntax, how do you hit that. And there’s a whole strategy that we’ve really put together on a blueprint side for getting off shelf once you get on. The second thing is that people are everything, people are everything. And I think we made a couple of hires on on both companies that weren’t the right hires. And it caused so much more disruption to the organization and to the culture. And if I could go back in time, I would take longer and make sure that they’re hit all the different rates not only just look great on paper in terms of the good experience level, but great in terms of writing, asking the right questions and finding the right functional skill sets, and also the right culturals questions and that they fit in with our values. Because that’s that’s definitely been a big key thing. And I wish I would have hired, you know, excellent people to help with different departments quicker.

Kara Goldin 14:35
I totally agree. And I think like they just have to really believe in your product too, because it doesn’t matter how much experience they have. But if they are sort of here for the wrong reasons, and maybe they’ve got great experience and all the things on paper that you you want to believe that they’re going to be terrific but if they don’t ultimately believe in what you’re doing or sort of jive with the call Sure, I think it can really kill a business for sure. So, such such great tips. So you talked about velocity and and pull off of the shelf. And you also touched on the investor side of the business. So raising money. So what would you say is kind of the key thing that you learned and raising money, whether with this business, or you also launched another business called Bear Power foods to I’d love to sort of hear what you would have to say about the investing side of this equation, I guess, is the key way to talk about it.

Max Baumann 15:37
Yeah, absolutely. They’re with bear, we raised just under a million we were venture backed. And with that company, a big thing that I learned is almost to look at raising money, like sales, have a CRM, understand going deep with the investors that it’s not going to just happen on your first meeting. And a great saying that a mentor taught me is investors invest in lines, not dots. So the first time you meet them, your dot, you haven’t quite built the trust, you know, might you might have some hype around you. Maybe you get lucky once in a while. And after the first meeting, there’s the due diligence, and then they’re in. But ultimately, if once you meet them, and you start to ask questions, and really learn how they tick, and if it’s a VC, what’s their thesis? You know, what kind of multiple? Do they want to get on a return? What’s the revenue minimum? What have been great examples of entrepreneurs that have pitch them? Why don’t you go ahead and find those portfolios, shoot one of messages, a DM and get on the phone and ask them about their process and really prepare? I think the people that prepare diligently, almost like an athlete about to go on the field per bill, big game for an investor meeting are the ones that went out that mix with the grit and resilience to keep going and face no after no after No, with the same level of focus and motivation. So that’s a big one is approach it like sales with the CRM, investors invest in in lines, not dots. So each time you meet them, another dot connects, and you start building out this line. And when you say, let’s say you meet someone for the first time, and you say, you know, in the next three months, we’re going to do XY and Z. And you do that that builds criminate, a tremendous amount of trust, and credibility. And we’ve seen that work and people go on. And the last part with investors or pieces tip there would be FOMO is a real thing. People investors don’t like to miss out on hot up and coming brands. So a big, big way that I’ve seen it to work out is looking at social networks for investors, so investors that are currently enrolled, who are their friends, second degree friends, and that would be a big opportunity, first degree for them second degree for me. And then the big thing would be finding those people doing the research on them, and then asking your current investor to make an introduction to two to three other people, and preparing for those meetings and go in with that mentality. And a big thing with FOMO, too, is press. If you can generate some press for the brands with having that warm connection from a current investor, then that can help build, you know, a sense of oh, this is a hot brand. We’re going on like a good ride here. We’d love you to come along.

Kara Goldin 18:26
So when you’ve raised money, did you do it before you actually had sales? I mean, it sounds like it was really, really early that you raise the capital.

Max Baumann 18:35
Yeah, we were able to do it pre sales, which which is really rare. And one thing that helped us in terms of credibility and FOMO is we actually won the Bev net showdown, which is the nation’s leading pitch competition from like an industry media standpoint. And that was a big opportunity for us. Because once we won that, we started having a lot of investors call us. So then rather than like pushing and trying to find any other people like who are this, who is this brand, who is max, they were able to then look at, wow, they just won this big pitch competition. And now it was like almost the opposite side of the magnet where they were getting pulled authentically naturally towards the brand. So so that helped a lot. And then getting the right couple of investors that came on great business leaders. That helped a lot. And yeah, ultimately, it’s we closed I think the round was about 715,000. And it was our precede. And that helped us have the money to then go into an Indiegogo and with Indiegogo, we actually had the biggest first day in history at that point for food and beverage. And then subsequently I think we raised about 215,000 for my knowledge on that. That platform which is a top five for the platform for food and beverage

Kara Goldin 19:58
that’s incredible. So you and I were Talking right before we went live about the, you know, obviously, you launched the chill group and that sold very, very exciting. And then you’ve got an incredible company. Now you also had launched the Bear Power foods, and ran into some challenges with it, I’d love to hear kind of, you know, lessons learned from your perspective, too on, you know, what, what sort of happened? And what can happen, I guess is, is another big lesson along the way for entrepreneurs?

Max Baumann 20:34
Yeah, great question. So we were with bare power foods, we were doing a really novel concept. And what it was, was pre packaged powder in a bottle. So consumers could fill it with their favorite liquid almond milk, water shake, and then they would have they’re ready to drink ketogenic meal shake on the go. So a big thing that we really believed in was making sure that we looked at the whole market and that we had the world’s most powerful meal shake. That was our whole goal was to help inspire and give everyone the nutritional benefits the world’s most powerful meal. So so we know what we wanted to do. But the big thing that I double down on in my skill sets, my strengths are really in sales and marketing. And I was really a one man show, you know, I had a co founder at that time, but the co founder was also involved in different ventures. And I felt like I ended up being, you know, doing a lot of the work. And I really needed a ops person. So going back in time, if I would have had a person who had an incredible amount of ops experience, I feel like it wouldn’t have run into the issues. So what ended up happening is, we came off that Indiegogo, we had 1700 pre orders right out of the gate. And we had so we had this built in consumer base, this awesome opportunity. But with Indiegogo, you are actually selling a product before it exists, which is, you know, a blessing and can be a curse in our case and ended up being a curse. So then we had, you know, 1700 people hitting up, you know, when’s the product getting delivered once the product getting delivered, while we were going through this really rigorous co packing, vetting opportunity and doing all these different things to move from this prototype to a finished product. We ended up picking a company. And then we were all in there, minimums are really high. So I think we spent the ballots, quarter million plus on just all the ingredients for the couple skews there. By the time we got the skews, we set it out, we heard kind of a mixed bag, it tasted amazing. People loved the benefits. But for some people, it created a stomach ache. And this stomach ache was more like three to four out of 10 people, right. So when you have a product with, you know, 30 to 40% of the people that have it have a stomachache, you can’t run with that, you have to go back to the drawing board. And so we ended up throwing out hundreds of 1000s of dollars worth of products. And, you know, doing our best to email everyone the people that did like it, they were, you know, kind of stuff kept a little bit of product for them to a certain point. And then we cut it off because not everyone, but it was the MCT we put too much MCT in it MCT oil and the artichoke inulin. So those two ingredients now whenever I hear it, I’m like, oh, no, it’s just like, has that that nerve. So we reformulated by the time we got the product back, it was March 2020. And it was time to fundraise. And at that same exact time. In March 2020, we had co when it COVID Hit we had half of our team, that’s we’re too scared to hit the field and rightfully so, right, we were going through this big pandemic together. So I thought that was a big leadership moment for me of saying, Okay, I have these two companies, I’m running one of the companies I have, you know, close to 60 full time people at the time. And they all needed me everyone needed leadership full time. And then I have this other opportunity where I raise money for the cap table with investors, and I have to deliver for them. So at that that moment in time was, you know, where am I going to go and focus my time? How am I going to do this? So I waited on bear for a little bit. And I had a program with bass makers where I said, Okay, over the next 60 days, until June 1, I will pay personal checks for everyone. But you’ll be able to collect unemployment, because it won’t be through the company or it could be through me as gifting. I will cover everyone’s healthcare. And let us know if you want to come back by the first total year option, no hard feelings. And we ended up having 90% of the people come back. So that was great. But in the meantime, half the team was still working. I mean, there were some days in there where I was and I didn’t raise money. I was losing $70,000 a month. Yeah. And so it was a crazy time during that time to figure out what to do and how to do it well, and then I ended up getting further or into the pandemic and, you know, trying to shoot out some emails and everything. And then at a certain point, I said, You know what, I gotta ice this ice this brands call up all the investors personally, Tom, what what was going on, and then, you know, do my best to return what I could with what was left in the company’s bank account. So that was, you know, the first big failure, the that I went through, and I learned a lot through it. But, you know, one of the things that that I would look at now going back, and if I were to start another brand, it’s look across, what are the major functions and make sure each box is checked, not just externally, but internally, and the operations box was the one that got away because of the quality control, you know, and we could have taken a little bit longer to, to do focus groups and make sure that everyone was had a good experience, there were no stomach aches, the same time we had 1700 people, you know, that were emailing us daily. So we had the sense of urgency to get the product out. And that was ultimately what led to the products and brands becoming ice discontinued.

Kara Goldin 26:08
So interesting. I mean, also, I think, you know, trying to innovate at the beginning of a pandemic, I mean, obviously, you didn’t have that experience of sort of living through a pandemic, none of us did, right. But I think, clearly, the timing of everything was just super, super wonky, critical. And many, many ways. You know, I’m sorry to hear about that, for sure. But I can see that you learned quite a bit just from that experience, as well. And I think the other thing that I’m hearing from you as well is that you get to a point where, you know, you own it, right, you’re not trying to make something work that is just not going to work, and especially with all of the stars not aligning on this, and you’ve got other priorities, I think it it was just best just to sort of do what you did. So it’s definitely a big lesson learned, I’m sure, and one that you’ll never forget. But also one that I’m sure you learned a ton from as well. So definitely, super good. Great story. So you talked about leadership. And obviously, I think this is one in particular making sure that you have people in the various roles in your company that are able to kind of manage certain aspects of it, for sure. But what are some of the other things that you’ve learned just in running different companies? You touched on it with pacemakers? How it’s even more so about people? You know, what are some of the key things that you’ve learned being a leader.

Max Baumann 27:47
So, being a leader, the big things that I’ve learned, are, always communicate more than you think you need to, because everyone has so much going on? That it’s easy with the world one of the day to day for you to think you have a message out that’s not fully out. So communicates a big key thing. The second one is really, everyone is there for a reason, everyone’s on your team for a reason. And I think it’s the leaders job to communicate the vision of where the future lies for the company. So that everyone’s really crystal clear of what you’re marching towards. Because the big goal is to build that, why. And that crystal clear opportunity that everyone I really believe that everyone wants to contribute to something and they want to contribute, contribute to something big, that’s exciting, that’s a little scary. And when you when you create a very crystal clear vision for the organization, then it’s easier for people to get on board and, and communicate that to other people that they’re working with and be more and more passionate and excited about what they’re doing. And also have an ultimate purpose of who you’re helping with the organization that’s authentic to the organization. Another one would be in leadership, learning how to delegate because I think earlier on there’s, you know, an opportunity where I took on too much. And you know, you have to learn how to let go of the vine. And that was, you know, the opportunity where we recently brought in a COO faith who came from she was the global talent development director at Piaggio. And ultimately the Chief People Officer at paps before she joined us and she helped bring in so many fantastic systems and ways to think about things. And that helped the company become more organized. And knowing where your strengths and weaknesses are and what partners to bring on to help scale the business at different sizes. That’s really important as well. And I think there’s a tendency a lot with with certain types of founders as well where you want to kind of have your feeling and a pulse on everything and a certain point you need to let go of some of your direct reports and bring in someone He has certain skill sets that you don’t, and double down on the ones that you do. So not trying to be the jack of all trades, but what what can you truly be a master in that you enjoy that the company needs and bring in someone that has the skill sets that are higher than yours in the areas that the company also needs, but you not might not be the best in. And in my case, organization was a key fundamental need for us to scale and build to the next level. So bringing in a clo really helped with that

Kara Goldin 30:30
super great advice. And I think it’s one that people get blindsided by frankly, as they start to grow their organization thinking that they can do everything. So I think that’s really great advice. What have you enjoyed most? This is your last question. What have you enjoyed most about being a founder entrepreneur,

Max Baumann 30:50
I believe I’m somewhat unemployed, unemployable, like, I mean, coming from being a surfer to, you know, having that freedom of going out in the ocean, and being able to play and all that, but I’ve always kind of gotten trouble with a lot when I was younger in terms of, you know, going against authority. And I was always kind of a little bit of a renegade, a little irreverent. And I think for me, being an entrepreneur, I had the opportunity to create my own path and carve my own path and, you know, live and die by it, you know, and that was one of the big things of knowing, you know, who I am deep down and what, how I can create a living, doing doing that. So being an entrepreneur was a big opportunity for me. And I think just knowing exactly within entrepreneurship, that no matter what happens, you have that Extreme Ownership. And I think sometimes joining an organization for some people, it’s great. But then you’re working across this team. And you know, ultimately, in my case, I can hire fire put the right people in different places. So I’m still responsible for their work. And in other organizations, you don’t have that opportunity. So you might have a boss that is a big hindrance to not communicating what his boss may his or her boss may be doing. So I think that’s that was one big thing for me is just knowing that my strengths and weaknesses, and going for it in that way,

Kara Goldin 32:18
well, you’re an incredible creator, and definitely have shown your leadership, being able to do multiple things. So I don’t think you’re giving yourself enough credit, because you’ve done a really, really great job you’re beyond, I think you are employable, for sure. So it’s, you know, it’s great to kind of hear everything that you’ve accomplished and everything that you’ve been doing and and I think that for entrepreneurs to hear that you have created things, some things have worked out, some things haven’t worked out. And then you’ve also made the switch across industries from being a creator of brands and a scaler of brands to helping other people and supporting other people scale their brands was really, really incredible. So thank you so much. Max will have everything in the show notes about your company and everything that we talked about, and how to get in touch with your companies and you and all of that. Thanks all for listening to this episode. We hope you enjoyed it. And I want to thank all of our guests and our sponsors. And finally, our listeners keep the great comments coming in. And one final plug if you have not read or listened to my book undaunted, please do so you will hear all about my journey, including founding, scaling and building the company that I founded. Hint we are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks everyone for listening and goodbye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening