Sarah LaFleur – Founder & CEO M.M. LaFleur

Episode 193

How do you create clothing that is high-quality but still affordable? Our guest today is Sarah LaFleur, founder and CEO of M.M. LaFleur, a terrific women’s clothing company that makes incredible business attire. And how do you pivot quickly when the world decides to work from home? You figure it out. Listen to Sarah’s entrepreneurial journey and lessons she has learned along the way on this inspiring episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be, I want to just sort of make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked out knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control.

Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Kara golden show. So join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go Let’s go. Hi, everyone, its Kara golden from the Kara golden show. And I am so excited to have my next guest here we have Sarah floor, who is the founder and CEO of m m le floor, which is this incredible, incredible women’s clothing apparel company. But we’re gonna hear a lot more about her founding story and some of the the goods, the bads, all the challenges along the way. And what I thought was really, really interesting and sort of the the early founding story is that she is the daughter of a diplomat and before her philanthropic work with refugees. She or that’s what she was doing before founding her own company and then we’re working and moving into New York City and working in private equity. So we’ll talk a little bit about that and, and how she got started and I guess ended up teaming up with the former head designer from Zac Posen. I mean that that is in and of itself must have been so much fun and huge to to be able to get that all together too. So Sarah has earned many accolades as well including the fashion group internationals, Rising Star Award, inks Design Award and bottomless closet fashion award, one of my favorite ones. And she was also named on the list of the WWDC 40 of tomorrow and cranes 40 under 40. So many incredible accolades. I won’t name them all, but definitely, mm Loeffler is an innovative brand. Amazing, amazing things. And I’m excited to have you here, Sarah,

Sarah LaFleur 2:37
thank you so much. What a glorious introduction. And I would have to say all thanks to my publicist, Courtney. Oh, she’s, she’s really? Yeah, exactly. So so we have this connection.

Kara Goldin 2:52
So fun. So talk to me a little bit about being the daughter of a diplomat, did you always say I’m going to go be an entrepreneur or what what did you think you were going to do?

Sarah LaFleur 3:02
No, I mean, I. So you know, in some ways, I guess the Apple did not fall far from the truth because my mother is also an entrepreneur. But I actually I think growing up, she was the black sheep in the family, almost everyone in my family was a civil servant, or worked in government in some shape, or form. So I actually thought like, that’s the job that most people have. And my mother was this kind of odd ball, who decided to go start her own business. And I think, growing up watching her, it just looked incredibly hard from the outside. Actually one of the first in the first few years of her running her company, she had a, she had like a catalog order business. Where she was basically introducing catalogs. This is like, I want to say the early 90s. And so she was introducing American catalogs to the Japanese audience. So if you can kind of remember j crew or Hannah Anderson, or there was a brand called CW that was my personal favorite CW girls. Anyway, she would take these catalogs, she would send them to Japan and people would place orders and then we would get boxes and boxes delivered to our basement which was my mom’s office and then she would repackage them and ship them to Japan and you know, manage returns, etc. And I just I could see up close what a struggle it was. You know, I think my mom also got a lot of joy out of it. But how hard it was and and I think I didn’t feel like it was called you know, I felt no calling towards entrepreneurship. If anything, I thought I was gonna you know, follow my dad’s footsteps and maybe become a diplomat. I really just thought I was gonna go work in government. So we it was it’s a strange turn of events.

Kara Goldin 4:52
Where exactly were you living to? In Japan?

Sarah LaFleur 4:54
Gosh, you know, all over. So in Japan, we lived in Tokyo mainly and actually, we Often lived with my grandparents, we, especially because sometimes when my dad would, you know, receive a tour in a country that my parents didn’t necessarily want to raise me and my sister, they also really wanted my sister and I to have a Japanese education. So I actually went to just a regular Japanese primary school, elementary school, and then Middle School, and as did my sister. And, and so, you know, I think that for all intensive purposes, I considered myself Japanese. And it really wasn’t until college. When I, that was my second time living in America coming to college. Did I actually I think, you know, think of myself as American. But I, you know, I think even before American, I do think of myself as a immigrant, and I guess also, you know, somewhat, somewhat international and also, you know, without a home without a maybe like a strong, strong identity one way or the other.

Kara Goldin 6:07
So interesting. So after you left college, what’s your, what was your first job?

Sarah LaFleur 6:14
But actually, the first job I got, after college was as a bike tour guide in Paris. Paris was my birth country, or I should say, bird city. Yeah. So I decided, Okay, you know, I should, I should go, I should go learn about my birth country. So I moved to France for a year and worked under the table, at a bike door company, among other things, but then came back to New York City, it’s time to get a grown up job. And so that grown up job, was working in management consulting at Bain and company. So I was there for about three years, basically, starting in 2007.

Kara Goldin 6:52
So interesting. And then what did you do after that?

Sarah LaFleur 6:55
Let’s see, I mentioned wanting to work in government. I think at that point, I had kind of dabbled in various opportunities, I think, through Bay and I had an opportunity to go work for New York City. Before that, in college, I had an opportunity to go volunteer in Zambia. And I think through Bain, I thought, Okay, this is actually my moment, after having been in the private sector for three years to give, you know, nonprofit, or, yeah, governmental work. Another try, I ended up moving to South Africa, I joined a NGO called techno serve, which was a nonprofit organization that focused on really looking at the supply chain, often in agriculture, and saying, Okay, how can we incorporate, you know, the rural poor people at the bottom of the pyramid into a formal supply chain? And so I was looking at farming, really farming in South Africa, saying, you know, how can we actually plug in rural South Africans into this economy. And I tried that for about a year really, really enjoyed the work, I think, ultimately, for many reasons, decided that this was not where I wanted to be. And then kind of in a bizarre turn of events, went and chased my, what I thought was another dream job of vine, which was working in private equity. Back in New York City, so that was when I was 27. I moved back to New York City.

Kara Goldin 8:32
So interesting. And so you’re working in private equity? Were you focused on apparel? Or what was the kind of the, what was your focus in private equity?

Sarah LaFleur 8:42
No, yeah, not at all apparel. I mean, I think even at this stage, I didn’t think that that was, you know, something that I wanted to do. But it was a firm that did a lot of real estate, in a lot of brands. And so I had the opportunity to basically accompany my my boss, and take a close look at the brands that they had acquired, and see if there was an opportunity to, you know, turn them around or improve them even further. And actually, the job itself I thought was really fascinating. It was like the first time I think, in my career where I got a taste of, you know, the, the excitement of running a brand. And, you know, even though that job ended up not being a long term thing for me, I love the content of work. This idea of like, really like embracing a brand loving a brand loving the customers loving the product and and, you know, basically making the pieces come together really to let that company sing. So that that was my that was my, my brush with private equity.

Kara Goldin 9:55
Interesting, and so what do you think I always I interviewed another guest who had come from private equity. And I’m curious to hear your response on this with private equity. I mean, so many founders are, you know, they’re just going out and searching for money as I always share with founders, it’s just there’s just different types of money that is out there. What do you think? The mindset is of private equity? Having worked inside of there versus like founders? I mean, now that you’ve been a founder, and you know, you see founders coming in and and, obviously passionate, and and what what do you what do you think? I mean, what what is, and again, this is a broad stroke on it, not every single private, but in general, what is private equity? For those who might not know, founders who are learn with podcast?

Sarah LaFleur 10:48
You know, I think, just like most things, there are kind of extraordinary private equity firms that are really there to support the original mission and enable the company to grow way faster and much bigger than I think, sometimes even the founders imagination. I think, in many cases, that’s that’s not true. I think private equity is a very numbers driven world, and there’s a very, there’s a finite time to turn around a company or, you know, take it from one valuation to the next in order to be able to sell it to its next owner or take it public. And so I think the truth is, it’s caused a lot of damage to a lot of businesses, you know, I think most of us have heard about severely leveraged companies. And these leveraged buyouts that a lot of private private companies, or private equity companies have done they they make the company take on a ton of debt to the point where its survivability is, is really just not viable. And they cut costs at all expenses at all expense. Sometimes I think killing so much of the good with it. You know, and I think I think what often happens is private equity firms come in, and they they want to put in their own management fair, but I think sometimes, you know, they they throw the baby out with the bathwater. So I think I maybe, you know, I should say, I’ve met some great private equity firms, and I’ve met some not so great private equity firms. And I think a cautious skepticism is is, is maybe the the way, I approach every conversation. And really, at the end of the day, I think it’s about partnership. And I could say the same thing about you know, VC investors, thankfully, I shopped around a lot and, and net incredible investors. And I, I really like my VC investors, I like everyone on my board. And I realized that I’m in a pretty fortunate position to be able to say that because a lot of my founder friends are not in that situation.

Kara Goldin 13:18
Yeah, no, definitely. And I think it’s, I think sometimes being on sort of the other side allows you a lot of, you know, you can sit there and watch and and more than anything, I think private equity typically is on a timeline. I mean, I think most of them are on some kind of a timeline in order to do something like you said, either an IPO or sell the company or, and oftentimes, I think it’s missing misalignment. And along the way, but I think it must have been fascinating sitting inside of a private equity to really learn that firsthand. It totally.

Sarah LaFleur 13:53
And you know, what, one thing I think, to be clear, I’m a first time founder and a first time operator, right? And I think like my first job, was my first professional job was in consulting, and then my next job was in investing. And then now, being on the operating side, I kind of laugh at my earlier self, because I’m like, everything is very easy. When it’s in a spreadsheet, everything is very easy. When it’s on PowerPoint, you try actually operating and executing. And I was actually talking to an investment banker, I remember a couple years ago, and he was like, you know, he was looking at our financial projections. And he was like, you know, Sarah, I think if you could just take your revenue a little bit and take your costs down, then you could get to profitability. And I’m like, You think I don’t know that. Like, of course, I can do that to my spreadsheet, I can do it. I can make my spreadsheet, whatever it wants, or whatever we want to say. But that’s just not how operating works. Operating is about people management, it’s about alignment. It’s about execution, you know, and I, I just kind of laughed but I’m Sure I was the one saying that only a few years ago so, you know, I, I understand why it might seem so easy on paper.

Kara Goldin 15:10
Now definitely. And I think that it’s a yeah when and especially when you have an operated a company and you haven’t seen the things that you’ve seen and and had to deal with, you know, different challenges along the way for sure I completely agree with you on so many levels. So you entered into the fashion industry. So were you sitting inside of your role there in private equity thinking one day, I’m gonna go and be an entrepreneur, are you there yet? or How did this come about? Oh

Sarah LaFleur 15:42
my gosh, no, not at all. I, my plan was, you know, kind of typical, associated a private equity firm, I was gonna do my two years or however many, you know, years that you kind of put in to private equity and then go to business school. And then I don’t know, I thought, then we’ll see. And then I think to make, again, a very long story short, it didn’t work out at this private equity company, I actually really was so depressed being there, I gave my notice. And two weeks later, I was out and I kind of sat on my sofa and cried for a good month. Just feeling actually really shattered by the experience. It sounds so dramatic when i when i just explain it quickly. But it was a really, really trying time, I think in my my professional life, but really like in my 20s my professional life was my life. And so I think I came I just kind of unraveled and really, you know, was doing a lot of soul searching about what it is that I wanted to do. at this particular moment. And I you know, I interviewed at a few things, but I think my biggest fear at that point was that I had ruined a perfectly good resume. And because I had left a job so quickly, nobody was going to hire me next. You know, I say these things in retrospect, I realized that was probably not the case, somebody would have hired me. But I thought, okay, like, if nobody’s gonna hire me, I’m gonna have to make my own job. And I had always had this idea that, you know, women’s clothing, and at this at the time, we started the company, really Women’s Professional, where could be done better. That was an idea that was kind of floating in my head or have been floating in my head for a few years, but I just thought it was was something you know, it’s a little bit of a pipe dream, I maybe I’ll get a chance to do it one day somehow. And then suddenly, when I found myself jobless, and my savings account draining, I thought, okay, like, you know, this is an idea that I’ve had I, why not give it a try? And so, you know, it wasn’t like, I didn’t start it really thinking like, Okay, I’m going to be an entrepreneur, I’m going to have a fashion brand. It was really, okay, here’s an idea that I’m passionate about because I’m a kind of customer and I personally feel this pain. I don’t have anything else to do. And you know, my, my professional prospects can’t really get any worse. So why not give it a try? I mean, it was it was you know, is that mentality simple?

Kara Goldin 18:15
And so what was kind of the first step what did how did you think of I mean, obviously, your, your thoughts on maybe I should go do this, and maybe I should change this industry, but like, at what point did you decide, Okay, I’m gonna go and, you know, build a website or or, you know, get a business license or like, what what were those steps that you really said, Okay, I’m going to do this first.

Sarah LaFleur 18:44
You know, actually, the first thing that I did believe it or not, was rent a we workspace this was like, I think back when we were only had two buildings or something, but I rented a tiny office for $500. And I gave it up two months later, because I was like, I can’t afford $500. But that was the first thing that I did. And I do remember filing to start a business, you know, be very easy. I just created a an LLC in Delaware, which is actually Delaware’s is still where we’re Incorporated. We’re no longer an LLC, but, you know, that was kind of an amazing thing. I think just coming from other countries and, and having friends in a lot of different places, just realizing how easy it is in America in some ways to start a company, you know, okay, of course, like, it’s not that funding comes easy. You know, maybe there are a lot of challenges, but the paperwork was surprisingly easy. And I think at the time, I had a friend who was living in Nigeria, who was telling me about how he was having to, you know, pay bribes in order to like pass through some paperwork. And so that was, you know, strangely a moment where I was I found myself very proud to be an American. I love it. Yeah. And so anyway, that that paperwork You know, happened pretty quickly. And then really the first I think big step that I took after that was was trying to find my co founder and you know, as you could probably tell from what we’ve been discussing, like, I’m, I’m the money person, I I’m also the customer, but I’m, you know, my background was in business. So I really wanted to find a partner who was an amazing designer. And I think my mother, you know, before having started her own company, had been in the world of high end fashion. And so she had kind of taught me through the clothes that she would bring home, you know, what good tailoring looked like what great fabrics felt like. And I think the whole question that I was, you know, I wanted to answer wasn’t, can I deliver this level of quality clothing? If I go direct to consumer, if I cut out the middleman, if I get fabrics directly from the mills and Italy and Germany and Japan and make them at some of the best factories that we know, you know, can I deliver excellent quality, beautiful tailoring to to professional women. And for that I really needed, you know, a talented designer. And I didn’t know anybody in the design world, like literally not a single person in the design world. But it was through a college friend who happened to go to interior design school who happened to have a friend who worked in fashion design, who happened to introduce me to a headhunter and he was the one who actually introduced me to my co founder miaka who I’ve now been in business with for 10 plus years, but it came about in this really roundabout way she was as you said, Kara, you know the former head designer and Zac Posen really just an incredible talent and so you know, we’re not for her this business definitely wouldn’t be around. And you know, I think so much of our success is really as a result of our design talent.

Kara Goldin 21:49
That’s amazing and so you started out in you know, really kind of business clothing for women. We’ve obviously been through an incredibly crazy couple of years almost a couple of years now. I guess not quite, but feels like a couple of years but as doesn’t it right.

Sarah LaFleur 22:10
Yeah, it really does.

Kara Goldin 22:13
What have you learned about this consumer I mean, obviously, we’re not going into the office quite yet for for most people and and coming off of the summer as well, but, and I I think you’re also moving into more lifestyle clothing, too. So talk to me a little bit about how the pandemic really kind of shifted your business in that yeah.

Sarah LaFleur 22:40
I mean, I won’t mince words. It was incredibly incredibly hard in 2020 I would even say early 2021 you know, we saw I think we saw what we call our customer Samantha and so we saw Samantha’s I think lifestyle and preferences evolving just even before the pandemic you know, we saw work were becoming more casual, and that she wanted more stretch in her pants and she wanted we always stood for I think comfort and machine washability wrinkle resistance but I think in many ways so we were we felt like we were ahead of the curve on that aspect. But then just in terms of you know, our biggest business prior to the pandemic was dresses and nobody was wearing dresses last year and and that was really hard on our business you know, we closed all of our stores and we had to furlough and then lay off a good number of our retail employees and it was it they were really really challenging times you know, I think for most of last year in the beginning of this year the goal was just survival and we saw a lot of retailers go out of business and so you know it was a scary time I think what got me through it I would say like emotional like it was definitely a scary times for the business but emotionally strangely did not feel like the hardest time for me and I think I owe that to like really having an amazing executive team amazing partners like around the circle way who I felt like I could share things with and talk about really openly I think and you know, we really we we got to the other side we we’ve we survived and actually you know it’s September we are we’re having our best month of revenue since since the beginning of COVID. We just opened back up our New York store DC is already open. So the the momentum is really starting to build back up and we’re looking to open you know, five to six more new stores next year. So I’m I feel, I think just extraordinary Lee extraordinarily proud of my team. I mean, if you could think of any business to be in in 2020, it definitely wasn’t women’s work apparel. And yet that is that is the business that we have. Right. And so it was just a lot of ingenuity one of the things that we did, we launched virtual appointments. And so, you know, our store stylists are kind of famous for doing these one on one appointments with our customers where they pre pull items for her. And you, you basically work with a stylist to figure out what works best for you. And we move that over to zoom. And now that’s one of our fastest growing revenue channels. And we started a customer Slack channel, and customers would hop on every morning and we became their new quote, unquote, work, Wives work husbands. They were sharing childcare tips with each other. So I think there was a lot of a lot of creativity that came out of this period. But you know, as a business owner, tough Panda, I learned a lot from it.

Kara Goldin 26:00
Do you feel like the community around you know, the industry as a whole I, you know, it’s interesting, I, I talk a lot about this in my book as well that I came from the tech industry. And when I came into the beverage industry, I I wasn’t shy about asking a lot of food and beverage people how to do things, and you know, many of them wouldn’t give me any time because why would they I came from I was coming from a totally different industry, I had this idea that and maybe in some ways they found competitive, right? And it was, it was really lonely in many ways. You know, as I kind of look back on on that time, and so then I just started to do it and build it over time and kind of, I think be the person that I want it to be or I wanted in my network which was much more you know, mentorship and and kind of saying you can go do this, etc. I wish I had more time to do a lot of those things, but especially during this challenging time, do you feel like the apparel industry? Like do you feel like you were able to reach out to other people? Or is it still very siloed as it you know, as an industry,

Sarah LaFleur 27:16
you know, surprisingly Yes, it was a, it was kind of unlike any other time in the sense that everyone was desperate to help each other out. So whether it was around the paycheck Protection Program, right? That was, you know, a huge help to our business. And I know many other retail businesses and, you know, my my founder friends and I would hop on zoom. And I think there were a couple of women that I know who are in retail, but also just generally consumer products. Because you know, it actually it was interesting, I think we initially all took a hit. But then, for example, the home industry came back really quickly and then you know, did even better, then then your prior, whereas a parallel really continued to kind of stay flat if you were lucky. But But often, you know, kind of drop off and, and we were really open about that struggle. And I would say like there there, there have been other moments in the business that were challenging. And I didn’t feel nearly as comfortable, I think talking about with other people, because I felt like I was the only one going through it. Now of course, in retrospect, we share these stories and we realize wow, like we were all going through the same things or we were all struggling, right. But there was like there wasn’t an embarrassment about I think sharing it because the factors felt so like macro and out of our control. But that is a that is a lesson that I am taking with me which is like you’re just really trying to reach out more I think the be more vulnerable. With with my my kind of fellow fellow founders, I think probably I think, if anything, I’m probably I overshare sometimes and so I always have to watch myself, but for me, it was a huge source of comfort.

Kara Goldin 29:18
I love it. That’s so great. So for any entrepreneurs out there who are thinking about switching industries, starting their own business, you know, what do you wish that someone would have said to you early on, or what do you know now that that maybe I mean, you’ve learned so much along the way for sure. What do you know now that that you wish you would have known when you started?

Sarah LaFleur 29:45
That it was gonna take a long time? Mm hmm. You know, I think we we kind of glorify founders and founding stories at least that are told where things really feel like an overnight success. You know, Instagram comes to mind because I think I think they sold their company within, I don’t know, it was like something crazy, like within 24 months of founding it, but that’s very rare. Very rare, right? Very rare. And yet for some reason, those are the stories that get told a lot. So I think there’s this real misconception in the world of entrepreneurship. And I would say, like, in two years, I think I had launched, I had, I had just launched my site since basically beginning to to launch, you know, it took roughly a little under, but it took almost two years to get the product ready. And then to launch the site. And I think, coming from management, consulting, or finance, where, you know, things work at breakneck speed and your product, frankly, is, you know, like, in the case of consulting, powerful PowerPoint, or in the case of finance, you know, a transaction product is difficult and incredibly challenging. And I mean, carry, you know, this too, and you have also, you know, you, you produce things that people consume, so they, they have to meet all sorts of stringent standards. Those things take a lot of time. And I think sometimes I meet MBAs, like during their summer internships, they’ll come in intern with us or, or people who have other side jobs or main jobs and are trying to start this on the side and they say, Okay, well, I’m gonna give this like, you know, the summer to to work on my company. And if I don’t see any traction by the fall, then I’m just gonna start interviewing for, you know, normal, normal jobs, or, you know, I’m gonna, I’m gonna try this for a year. But if it doesn’t work out, I’m gonna go back to my last job. And I’m thinking like, that is nowhere nearly enough time. Yeah, that’s crazy. You know, it takes a long time to, to start a company. And so I always say, like, Get a side hustle. You know, don’t don’t quit your job thinking, Okay, I have like, x 1000 in savings. And I’m just gonna go through this. And whenever I’m done with this money, that means like, by the time by that time, my company must be successful, or else, because I think nobody ever makes that makes it, you know, within that timeframe. So I was tutoring. That’s how that was my side had a side hustle for the first two and a half years. That’s how I made ends meet, while also working on starting my business, and I think it just, you know, it takes time.

Kara Goldin 32:27
Well, and I think that is such a key thing that you said, I think taking time. And I would say that that’s, that’s really something that I’ve learned over time that when I did actually take my time to do things, and, you know, gave it a rest and not tried to rush it, those were really the best experiences, because so often when we’re rushing things, there are things that are out of our control. Certainly, you know, this pandemic, I think, especially if you’re manufacturing outside of the US, I mean, we’re on a different time schedule in different parts of the world. And there’s only so much you can do so I think Take some deep breaths and know like when you can’t push anymore, and it just is what it is. And you’ve definitely learned that firsthand. And I think that the more we can all look at sort of our challenging times throughout our life, our business journey to those things are going to help us to actually do better in the future. Next time we’re dealing with with challenging time. So well, this is amazing, amazing. So educational, Sarah, and obviously an incredible product. I wish you guys all the best. And everybody. Yeah, yeah. And where can everybody reach out to mm lafleur? And where’s the best place to connect with you all?

Sarah LaFleur 33:48
Sure. So first of all, if you’re based in New York City or DC, please stop by one of our stores. We’re in Bryant Park. If you’re in New York City, we’re two blocks from the White House if you’re in Washington, DC, otherwise MMO Fleur comm is you know your best option. And you can also book a virtual appointment, which is what I would highly recommend and meet one of our fabulous stylists. There’s no cost. And there’s no expectation of purchase, just hopefully a chance to learn more about our collection and find what works perfectly for you. Whether you’re going back to the office or not, since we have a lot, a lot of clothes just like that, that I think fit the modern woman’s lifestyle.

Kara Goldin 34:28
They’re amazing. And Sarah was so nice to send me sweater and pants and they’re amazing. They’re, they’re adorable. And I can’t wait to i’m actually going out to dinner tonight and I am going to wear them tonight and they’re super terrific. And so thank you again. I really, really appreciate it. So thank you everyone for listening. We’re here every Monday and Wednesday for the Kara golden show talking to amazing founders and CEOs who are sharing their stories, sharing their challenging times and letting us know a little bit more what goes on behind the brand and building terrific brands and getting through challenging times and hopefully you all will go to mmm the floor and also follow Sarah on her social to at Sarah Loffler. And thank you everyone for coming on. Hopefully you’re all drinking a bottle a hint, and hopefully you’ll get a chance to read my book if you have not already called undaunted, overcoming doubts and doubters. And thank you so much, Sarah. I really, really appreciate it. And everybody give Sara’s Episode Five stars and download the app and all of that stuff. So thanks, everyone have a great rest of the week. before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book calm and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara golden and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara golden golden thanks for listening