Ahmed Rahim: Co-Founder & Chief Vision Officer of Numi Tea

Episode 288

From immigrating from Baghdad, Iraq to building the multi-million dollar business of Numi Tea. With his sister! Ahmed Rahim, Co-Founder and Chief Vision Officer of Numi Organic Tea, shares their incredible story – including the struggles of a start-up, their trials and tribulations building the business, and so much more. Personal, rich, honest and heartfelt. Find a comfortable spot, steep a mug of Numi tea and enjoy listening to this incredible purpose-driven entrepreneur take us on his journey. You don’t want to miss listening to this incredible episode. On this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow.

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. It’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. And I’m absolutely thrilled to have my next guest. Here we have Ahmed Rahim, who is the co founder and chief vision officer, amongst other things of numi organic tea, which is one of the largest premium organic Fairtrade certified tea companies in North America. Matt is also as I mentioned, the co founder, and he co founded with his sister, I absolutely love that story. And we’ll definitely get into that. But all of the Noomi blends that there’s so many that are so so incredible, and I’ve admired so many of them for so many years. And to actually get to know I met a little bit more, through just being a local entrepreneur has just been incredible, and really grateful for that. And he has the terrible job of traveling the world seeking unique blends, plants and teas as well as building partnerships with farmers and their communities. He started the numi Foundation, which we’ll get into that which amongst other things, brings clean water to many of the farming communities that he has been partnering with. And he’s also the co founder of one step closer, we’ll hear a lot more about that. But he’s a great example of a co founder, who has lead with purpose innovated all along the journey, and really pours his heart and soul into everything that he does. So I’m very excited to welcome you here today. Ahmed, thank you for joining us.

Ahmed Rahim 2:19
Thank you, Kara, for having me an honor to be on your show. And and yeah, it’s what a beautiful intro. Wow, you can interrupt me anytime, anywhere.

Kara Goldin 2:29
All right. Well, let’s start at the beginning. I’d love to get a picture of you as a child. I know you immigrated from Iraq. And I would love to hear a little bit more about that, and sort of how that kind of inspired you maybe to do some of the stuff that you’ve done now and and a little bit earlier.

Ahmed Rahim 2:50
Well, thank you. Yeah, there’s actually a lot of direct correlations from my birthplace of Baghdad, and actually with new me, it comes from a name from, from Iraq, that the name Naomi, but yeah, you know, when we, when my father immigrated to the United States in the 70s, you know, there was a lot of turmoil happening in Baghdad, with the government changing and who we ended up having as our president, Saddam Hussein, who created a lot of unfortunate challenges for the people there and for the country. So it was wonderful that my dad had a dream to leave and, you know, studied in England for many years to be a doctor and then studied again in the United States to be a doctor. So he actually has three degrees, you know, from cardiology, then to nephrology, but we emigrated to Cleveland, Ohio, back in the 70s. And, you know, immigrating back then was a little challenging, there was a lot of racism as there still is today. But it was it was tough to grow up in the Midwest, you know, I’ve grown to love and, you know, enjoy going now to visit my parents and I have two siblings that still live there, and Cleveland, in the suburbs there. But it was tough. Growing up, I was always an outcast, and very looked at, you know, the war with Iraq and Iran was happening in the 80s. So I was kind of the subject of, of discrimination because of that, and called all kinds of weird names, things I would not want to repeat. And it took me a while to find myself because I think one part of humanity is about belonging. And really, where do you belong in this world? And with whom do you belong? And how do you belong? And how do you show up? So the identity crisis for me was started early on in just being an immigrant and trying to find the earth below my feet. And you know, it was actually through plants that I ended up really finding myself and plants that created a little bit of psychoactive effects on my body and mind to allow me to see that, you know, don’t let this stuff bother you don’t Don’t take it so personally, but it took years and years and years. even into my adult life, to work through that, and, and also, you know, being, having parents that come from such a strong culture, you know, and immigrating to a very, quote unquote, kind of free culture, you know, with their standards of living. And you know, it was, it was difficult, you know, and again, it was plants that helped me break out of that and see beyond the cultures. And today fast forward, I love and appreciate the culture that my parents come from. And I’ve had the fortune to go back there many times I just got back from Lebanon, just you know, three, four weeks ago where, you know, still have a 96 year old uncle and 80 plus year old aren’t in many cousins there, and some flew from Baghdad to see us. So I really grown to love it. And the lineage is very strong. And you know, being the first generation to leave 1000s of years of Mesopotamia, Babylon culture, to the Western world, I feel like I have a big responsibility and what the future holds for our lineage and just for the ways, cultures of oppression and cultures of richness can feed a new culture like America,

Kara Goldin 6:14
wonderfully said. So you talked about plants. So what was it? I mean, were you interested in plants as a youngster? And what can you be more specific about that?

Ahmed Rahim 6:25
Sure. Well, I mean, the things that awoke my mind were beyond just the plants that we would normally find in a store, or in marketplace. So those were just able to open my mind up to, to what is this place that we live on? What is the sense of belonging? What is our culture? So those you know, which are getting more popular today, luckily, and there’s all kinds of beautiful documentaries and books written about psychoactive plants. But I think on the traditional side of plants, you know, tea is such a big beverage in our culture in the Middle East, and it’s obviously big in Eastern Europe. It’s big. And I mean, it’s the most consumed beverage in the world after water. Is tea around the world. Do you think of all the tea consumed in India and Africa and you know, you name it, South America with yerba, monta and China, you know, with green tea. So, we in the Middle East, we drink a lot of, you know, just black tea. But there was one tea that we drink, which is our drink of hospitality, which you know, you go to China, you get green tea, everywhere you go, you go to Morocco, you get men to go to South America, you get yerba, monta and Iraq, you would drink this dried lime, you know, you know, like, unlike America, where you, you know, you have a drink of hospitality is Coca Cola. You know, in Iraq, it’s this dried lime, that is sun dried, and, and it’s served with a lot of sugar, but it’s sweet and sour, but it’s our drink of hospitality. And we call it new me. So my sister and I, you know, we both grew up as, as artists, we both learned our need to express you know, whether it’s our, the stuff that I talked about, from cultural differences to, you know, just being raised in a whole place where we have this history. And, and somehow we both became artists, my sister beam, and I and, and so we traveled the world. She was living in Italy, and Spain and eastern US, I was living in Germany and France and Czech Republic and, and I ended up opening up tea houses in Prague, Czech Republic, where I had a farm. And so I tried to bring this lime and this dried lime to my tea houses, we had about 300 types of loose teas, and we exported, we started an export business, and we sold these 300 Loose teas all throughout Eastern Europe. But it wasn’t possible million when my sister and I came upon the idea to bring this line which we’d always talked about in our family, that somebody should bring it to the US and bring it more mainstream. We decided to call the company knew me and you know, our culture is a lot about generosity and hospitality. So to offer this lime to the mainstream market was, you know, it was amazing. And it was the inspiration. And so my sister and I, when we started, we really brought a lot of our creativity to the company. You know, my sister adorned all the packaging with her paintings, and we wrote quotes on all the different boxes and teabags, poetry and we made cooking recipes, and it was kind of more like an art gallery than a branding, trying to sell. I remember our first website, you had to click like seven times to actually buy something. It was more about the journey, the mind and meditation, the artwork, the poetry, and you know, it was it was beautiful to be artists and enter the world of entrepreneurship 23 years ago, exactly 22 Two years ago on August 7, of 20, of 1999. So when we launched and so we just, we just surpassed our 23 year anniversary. But for us to be artists and enter this world and to just have a rocketship growth success in our first few years, just all sudden to get on the map and be in over 30 countries around the world was, was a world when it still is, even today, we see a lot of other new challenges facing us, and also a lot of growth. But yeah, it was beautiful to enter this through our lineage and through our drink of hospitality, the dried dried lime.

Kara Goldin 10:37
It sounds like you really were thinking about bringing culture to the US initially. But also, I mean, did you ever stop and say, I’m gonna go be an entrepreneur? Or was it really about bringing a gift to people to experience something? I mean, did you really stop and think I’m gonna go compete against all the rest of the tea companies that are out there? I mean, it back in 1999, who were kind of the big tea companies at the time. I mean, there wasn’t really kind of quality tea, right? That was your competition was a lot less it was more mass, wasn’t it?

Ahmed Rahim 11:16
Yeah. And I think you bring up a great point, Cara, which is, you know, when we came out, you know, T was kind of sleepy, there was some new brands out like Tazo had just been bought by Starbucks a few months after we launch. And there was a, you know, a couple other brands that kind of, I don’t want to say pretended to be premium, but they had a beautiful package, but their actual quality was low grade, T Dastur. T fannings, which is literally the leftovers of the tea plant, and also sprayed with a lot of oils and natural flavorings, which you know, those are just lab created. So I think we stood for a few things when we launched and we still stand really strong on those pillars, which is really high quality teas that are unadulterated by natural flavorings and oils and sprayed so we really let the teas and herbs and spices speak for themselves. You know, we also wanted to bring these authentic origins you know where these teas come from in the mountains of China or India or these herbs from South Africa and not use any flavorings just let the Rebbe speak for itself, or the lemongrass or the mint. Or these amazing teas from China with jasmine flowers are our Earl Grey, which uses the real Bergamot fruit. That’s why we call it h Joe gray. So we really wanted to celebrate the origin. And we were kind of the first to do that. And first to use teas with no flavorings. And still today, we don’t use any natural flavorings or artificial oils. And then lastly, and probably which is really separated us from the pack is, is all of our values and our commitments to the farmers, you know, to organic to the earth to packaging, sustainable packaging. You know, we’ve obviously grown and changed over the last 20 plus years. But our initial ideas of being super innovative, you know, bringing the first to the market row you bus and honeybush and lemon Myrtle and schizandra berries and poo air and turmeric and, you know flowering tea and the list goes on all these unique herbs that were out there. But nobody really forged to bring them to the market, and especially on the mainstream level. So I think we created a niche pretty quickly with innovation with this beautiful artistic packaging with real ingredients, which I think consumers were craving something that was more authentic, because, yeah, you know, the brands that were out for a while, especially, you know, Celestial Seasonings in Bigelow and Twinings and, you know, hats off to them for carving a niche in the market and creating what is today tea, but the quality and the authenticity and the values of fully organic, fully Fairtrade weren’t out there then. So we really able we were able to put a stake in the ground and say, This is what NUMMI is about and this is what we stand for. And we got tons of press and we did I think my sister and I 16 trade shows our first year to get out on the map you know, gifts shows and coffee shows and food service shows and natural food shows and grocery shows just to really let the trade know who we are, ya

Kara Goldin 14:29
know, it’s you guys were definitely on the forefront of that. I remember it’s hats off to you for really bringing that to the market because it’s it’s hard what you did, right? It’s there’s a lot of education around it too. And of course, you did it in a classy way where that you weren’t knocking other brands you just said what you were doing and how you were really unique and how you were different and obviously you could taste the differences. Well, you touched on this but you really see ported some of the farmers that you’re working with and sort of figuring out the different tea blends that you were creating and created the numi foundation. Can you talk a little bit more about that? how that came about?

Ahmed Rahim 15:15
Yeah, I mean, our commitment to farmers was from the beginning, you know, and it was interesting when I used to go visit the farmers 20 plus years ago, and I’d always asked what, what their needs are, they kind of were surprised, you know, they were like, Wait, normally, these manufacturers are coming and trying to extract us for pennies and pennies and discount us. And you’re asking us, how can you give us more. So it was an interesting paradigm shift for the relationship to want to dive deeper with them. And so immediately from the beginning, we really wanted to create programs, and Fairtrade certification didn’t even exist when we launched. And then when I did, I was kind of surprised that we had to pay an organization to do the work with the farmers. But you know, I got it over time. And, you know, we became one of the we become one of the largest, if not the largest, Fairtrade certified brand in North America. And then we even went on to launch our own program called fair labor practices, which is an improvement program. And so we TAC team with Fair Trade USA and fair labor practices to, to work and collaborate with our farmers. But, you know, we work with over 15,000 farmers and their families and in over 36 countries around the world where we source our teas and herbs and spices, and they’re the lifeline you know, these farmers that have been doing it for generations, you know, that that pick the turmeric in Madagascar, that pick the menten Kameel, and the spices all around the world and the traditional teas in Japan and and Taiwan and India and China, you know, they’ve been doing it for generations. And so for us to really partner with them, it’s kind of more of an honor. And it’s a privilege to be able to work with such committed farmers that really care also about organic, because there’s not a lot that that that do that, you know, a lot of the bigger brands, they buy conventional, and they buy large volume. And they’re not necessarily always doing it for I think, in my opinion, the right reasons have taken care of this earth, for every product we create, and making sure that the farmers are being taken care of, from wages, to health care, to school and education, to alternative programs. And so when we grew and we our farmer base was really established, you know, we decided to start the numi Foundation, my sister, and most important thing we could think of was education, and also sort of human rights and what what are some of the basic needs we all deserve as humans and it’s obviously, you know, education, health care, clean water. And we quickly began this project called together for hope, h2 o p e, and, and we wanted to bring clean water to our farming communities. So in Madagascar, for example, where we source our turmeric, and we work with over 4000 farmers and their families. You know, Madagascar is the 10th poorest country in the world. And they literally drink water out of the dirty rivers. And so these 12 villages, you know, we said, hey, what do you need, and they said water, it’s basically a human right to have clean water, but they’re drinking from the river and they’re getting sick, and you know, all the diarrhea and all the things that come with drinking, even if you boil it, it’s still not going to click, you know, clean all the bacterias. And so we went and raised money through the numi Foundation, a lot of of our team and employees join, even the farmers themselves joined with this funding campaign. And we raised money pretty quickly to dig, you know, 20 wells. And these farmers now have clean water. And and then the the the management group that we work with, they’re now maintaining it ongoing. And you know, and it’s interesting, the farmers had been promised by so many government and private companies to do this clean water for years and generations. And nobody did it. So when we did it, or even when we asked they were so shocked and surprised. They’re like, Oh, whatever, you know, everyone said it but nobody’s done it. So you know, and we carried that on to India, where we have about 8000 farmers and medic in the Assam region. We created a whole wash program and partnered with organizations locally and domestically here in the US with women’s Earth Alliance here and with Pete bat and some others in India, that were able to really work with these farmers and get them educated on what sanitation is about and we distributed over I think 1200 water filters and and created all kinds of sanitation programs and moved latrine And, and fixed wells. And and so you know, the numi Foundation has grown over the years, even during COVID, we raised a lot of money to deliver organic produce to some of the poorest families here in Oakland. And, you know, because so many pound, millions of pounds of produce was being thrown away when COVID first started. So we were able to find the bipoc farmers, raise the money, get the get the produce and deliver it door to door to 1000s of families across Oakland, at some of the poorest families. And that stemmed from what we do in education here in Oakland, through the foundation, is we created a gardening and art curriculum, which we have in a lot of the Oakland Unified School District, as well as in Richmond and Moran to educate children around organic food and where food comes from. So the foundation has evolved. And it’s been really a beautiful organization to support all of our communities in need, whether it’s our farmers, or in our own backyard of Oakland. And we even do stuff in Iraq for a lot of the orphans there.

Kara Goldin 21:03
That’s incredible. You know, it’s interesting, because the new me brand, there’s so much that goes on behind the scenes, right? There’s finding the right T, there’s everything that you described in not just supporting communities where your product is grown, but also in your own backyard. I mean, that’s, that just makes me feel even better about the brand. And and I’m sure consumers do as well. You’ve now founded a company and scale the company over many years. What do you think are some of the biggest challenges that you faced? Like? I mean, I can name 10 challenge? More than that, but I mean, what are what are a couple of them that you just never really thought about? Whatever be even in front of you, where you thought, how am I going to get through this? How am I going to get over it? What was? Can you name one or two of them? That really kind of hit you as as pretty tough?

Ahmed Rahim 22:09
Yeah, I mean, that’s, you know, I think every entrepreneur, what keeps him up at night, right? We all we all start our organizations from passion and culture and want great performance. And, you know, along the way, we have to bring in partners. And it’s really the partnerships and the people that we attract, and that sometimes are attracted to us. The biggest lesson I’ve learned not just from myself, but also a lot of friends who are entrepreneurs is, who do we bring on as our partners, and partners is a big word, because the partners could be our employees. It could be the CEO we hire, it could be the people that give us money, it could be our farming partners. So I’ve learned that it’s all about the people, and you surround yourself with great people, and great things will happen. And if you surround yourself with somebody sour, then it could really taint things, especially when times are rough. You know, we’re not always going to have rocketship growth and tons of money in the bank and great employees. So when times are rough, that’s where the rub happens. And, you know, there was some time we brought in some investors, some venture investors. And, you know, I started to see their true colors out over time. And, you know, trying to get me out of the organization, trying to, you know, I mean, there was a lot of good to it as well. So I don’t want to just talk about the negative because there’s, you know, there’s good and bad and everything. And but you know, you really start to see the true colors when something goes south. And it really has taught me even, you know, our banking partners, we’ve had great banking partners over the years, and you really see how they are when the times are rough. And they’ve leaned in and really been incredibly supportive. But the investors, you know, because they do have equity in the company, you know, they it’s like a marriage and, and it’s how do we navigate them? And how do we surround even those investors and people with big hearts and big visionaries, because when you’re a mission driven business, like ours, you know, unlike NUMMI, which is all about the farmers all about this earth all about the products we produce the packaging, making sure there’s no waste left on this planet. Because we’re already you know, just suffocating from other plastic on this planet. Are those partners in this for the long haul? You know, even if it is even if you plan to sell the company one day or turn it over to another bigger strategic, you know, who are those people that are coming along for the journey? And are they aligned? And it’s tough you never know. Right? You don’t know because everything is great today and everyone’s you know, celebrating the success and wow, what a rocketship let’s all join, and we love the vision. But I just I’ve learned to take my time, you know, and really think through things and, you know, even as, as one I’ve evolved a lot to as a human over the years with new me and learn to listen more and learn to be more patient, because it’s, that’s the lesson I have to turn inward, because you can’t change anyone, it can only change yourself. And I’ve learned to take more time and be more patient in the choices. And my recommendation to every entrepreneur has never raised money when your backs against the wall, you know, when you’re running out of money, or when you want to launch something big, and you need a lot of cash really quick, take your time, get to know your investors, same with employees, you know, especially for big positions, for any position for that matter, but, you know, really get to know the people that you want to run your organization or to be partners in your organization. Because it is it it’s kind of a marriage, you’re creating a community, you’re creating a village, and it takes the village to drive the brand and the business. And, you know, in our world with farmers, too, you know, there’s not a lot of farmers that are committed to organic and fair trade. So just that principle and value alone, you know, kind of helps narrow the field. And with money, you know, there’s a lot of investors that say, I’m impact investor, I’m doing good in the world. And, but you know, it’s money, and it’s a trade, it’s an exchange, and, and they want their value, which they just totally deserve. But are they aligned, and I’ve just learned over the time, to be more patient to listen carefully to get to know people. And also at some point to let go. And that’s been something that is the hardest for every entrepreneur to do is to let go and get out of our own way. But at some point to let go. And because when you do listen carefully, at least for me, when I listen carefully, and there’s constant listening, and forgiving, and listening and letting go, good things can happen. And people feel like there’s nobody that’s holding on, there’s no attachment, it’s all for the better of the organization and all that are driving it. But those have been some hard lessons. I mean, COVID that’s been one of the hardest lessons. I mean, you know, we have a big part of our business that’s in hospitality, you know, in restaurants and hotels and tech offices, and universities and airlines. And I mean, you name it cafes. And you know, we lost a lot of business when COVID hit because nobody was going out, everyone was at home. And you know, and times got really hard and you were really able to see who’s stepping in to support you. We needed money and how our banks leaned in how some friends leaned in and really helped. And it was amazing to just witnessed that, you know, we’re still not completely out of COVID we still need help. But it’s it’s always Yeah, it’s always taking time to to not just react off the cuff, but to think what’s the best strategy. So COVID has been an incredible lesson, I mean, home, so many patterns have changed since COVID hit. And now that we’re kind of out of it, you know, as far as this pandemic, it stills rippling through all of our decisions,

Kara Goldin 28:29
if somebody would have said COVID is going to happen, and here’s how it would affect your business, what would you have done differently?

Ahmed Rahim 28:37
Wow, well, I would have made some financial changes pretty quick. Because I would have known that we were going to lose a lot of business and certain channels, that people you know, that wasn’t happening anymore. So I would have made some financial decisions from how we spend money. And also, you know, we have, luckily a very diversified portfolio of customers, and, you know, incredible partners we’ve had for 1015 20 years as customers, and but I would have thought how can we diversify even more. So there isn’t any concentrations, I would have had, you know, deep conversations with our banks, and our financial partners to plan accordingly. And really looking at how cash flow is without certain business. So yeah, and also just staff and you know, how we have to really look to see with the losses of businesses, the certain channels of customers, you know, how we can support that with the most effective team because we have an incredible team and we’ve so built on culture and values within our team. And we had to make some hard decisions, which I wish we didn’t have to but you know, when the rug gets pulled from under you from a little virus like COVID You know, it’s hard but you kind of don’t do have to react quickly. We and if I had known ahead of time, would have thought differently and had deeper conversations and how could we restructure things? That doesn’t create reaction? But it’s a proactive approach.

Kara Goldin 30:12
Yeah, definitely. It’s hint wasn’t too dissimilar. In many ways, we had a pretty big direct to consumer business, which I think was helpful, for sure. But it was definitely the tech offices and business that we had kind of banked on for a long time really kind of hit us, just like some other businesses that were pretty big as people decided to stay home. So incredible learnings there for sure. So what keeps you motivated? Is there a quote that you think about in life, when things are tough, that you kind of go back to that kind of gets you back up again?

Ahmed Rahim 30:56
Well, I have a lot of spiritual heroes out there, you know, I love you know, the thought leaders like Carl Gustav Jung, and Rudolf Steiner, and Buckminster Fuller, and just those that always were able to think outside the box, you know, and, and never get stuck in the moment in time of challenges. And, you know, even some of the incredible leaders that really helped drive change, you know, that really gave themselves to, to drive causes for humanity in the environment, and that, I feel like, you know, we’ve become entrepreneurs, and we’ve created products to drive change. And that’s what motivates me is how can we continue to move forward with these sustainable mission driven brands and products that are doing such good on this planet, and, and the ripples that it creates, you know, whether it’s through foundations through organizations, you know, and I started this group with my partner, Laura called OSC one step closer. And you know, bringing together some of the most thoughtful, sustainable business leaders here in California, you know, you probably know all the brands, you know, from GW, yaki and Sam Mazon, and Nutiva, and Lotus foods, and, you know, the list goes on Dr. Bronner’s, and all these great thought, thought leaders and change agents, and they motivate me, you know, to learn from them and to work collaboratively with them. And, and to see their aches and pains. And, you know, so even though I mentioned some big names that are legends in the world of, you know, psychology and entrepreneurship and education, our colleagues in the industry motivate me, you know, our, my team, and my sister and my whole, you know, my CEO, they all motivate me, it’s just people that are really here to do good on this planet, and to make sure we leave it better than when we came to it, but that we’re also taking care of all those in need along the way, and expanding our minds, you know, and not getting stuck in patterns. But there’s this, you know, sometimes I think, are we going more horizontally than vertically as far as change? You know, is, is floating cars. And next thing, is that so vertical? Or is that this this horizontal growth? But you know, all of it is just us just thinking beyond this present day. And what is this world look like 100 years from now and 1000 years from now? And how can we leave a tiny little mark of something that helps it become a healthier place for all of us? And for itself? More importantly,

Kara Goldin 33:35
yes, absolutely. Well, that is a beautiful thought to end on. So Ahmed, thank you so much. It was such a pleasure speaking with you and so many gems and this conversation for sure. I definitely encourage everyone to check out numi organic tea and also hear a lot more about how meds journey on their website. We’ll have all of that in the show notes as well. Have a great rest of the week. Thank you again, I’m a

Ahmed Rahim 34:06
thank you so much, Kara, for having me.

Kara Goldin 34:08
Thanks all for listening to this episode. We hope you enjoyed it. And I want to thank all of our guests and our sponsors. And finally, our listeners, keep the great comments coming in. And one final plug if you have not read or listened to my book undaunted, please do so you will hear all about my journey, including founding, scaling and building the company that I founded. Hint we are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks everyone for listening and goodbye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is just Time for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book.com and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time, you’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight? Send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening