Caryn Seidman Becker: CEO of CLEAR

Episode 423

In this outstanding episode, Caryn Seidman Becker, CEO of CLEAR, sits down with Kara Goldin to discuss her journey in starting and scaling as the CEO of CLEAR. You’ve seen CLEAR in airports and at entrances of sporting events, but in 2010, it was just a vision she and her co-founder shared to create a secure identity platform that would enable a secure, predictable and frictionless experience for consumers. Listen in as Caryn shares her incredible journey building this data centric brand with more than 16 million members and a growing network of partners across the world, how CLEAR's identity platform is transforming the way people live, work, and travel plus how CLEAR continues to be one of the most innovative companies around. This is a not-to-be-missed episode in disruption, entrepreneurship, data and security that you don’t want to miss. On this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow.

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Transcript

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everybody, it’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. And thank you so much for joining us today. I’m so excited for our next guest, Caryn Seidman Becker, who is the co founder and CEO of Clear, and if you have not seen clear, boy, you and I are not living in the same world, because Clear has saved me. So many times when I’ve gotten to the airport and have thought, oh, my gosh, I’m going to miss this flight. And thank God for clear because I zoomed through there. And the day that they actually entered airports, I think I had a little extra time. And I’m like, What is this? And I’m like, wait, what this is absolutely amazing. So we have the co founder and CEO of Clear with us here today that she’s going to answer all of the burning questions that that we have. But also tell us a lot more about this incredible company. I should also mention that when I’m going to the San Francisco Giants, games and concerts and everything you’ve just shown up everywhere. So all these partnerships that you have are just absolutely incredible. And I’m so proud of you really building what you built. It’s just absolutely incredible. So I can’t wait to talk a little bit more about the company. Just a couple more tidbits on it. The data centric brand with more than 16 million members, I mean, nuts on on many, many levels and a growing network of partners. As I mentioned, hopefully I’m not making you blush, I’m so excited to, to sort of backtrack on overall, you know, what this company is, is doing and really saving people time, which of course, is one of the most valuable things we have. So thank you so much for being here and coming on and chatting with us.

Caryn Seidman Becker 2:36
Thanks for having me, it is an absolute thrill to be here. I am also a passionate customer of hints so and all that you’ve done. So thank you.

Kara Goldin 2:44
Oh, thank you. I love it. So Karen and I actually met our kids went to camp up in Maine together, and we initially met and it’s I love meeting business like minded people, women in particular, and you just never know where you’re going to meet people along the way. And I mean, this was in the early days of clear for sure. So

Caryn Seidman Becker 3:08
our summers in Poland main them’s the days.

Kara Goldin 3:11
Exactly, exactly. So please tell us all what is clear,

Caryn Seidman Becker 3:16
clear is an identity platform. With the mission of making experiences safer and easier. I want to live a friction free life, right from the time I wake up through my entire day, no matter where I am, I don’t want to carry around a wallet and all these cards. And so clear is a platform, connecting you to all the things that make you you. And so our ticker symbol y o u. But it’s using technology to change the way people live, work and travel. And quite frankly, it’s a company built in for how I wanted to live my life, and how I thought other people wanted to in a really stressed out action packed world to your point. All you have is time it is our most precious commodity. We are so not in control of it. And the more we can take control of it, the better off we all are.

Kara Goldin 4:09
Definitely. So you’re a co founder, what prompted you to start clearer? What was Was there a day that you were like, I gotta get through the airport? Or did you run across all of this data that you thought, oh, gosh, why isn’t someone using it? Tell me kind of the backstory.

Caryn Seidman Becker 4:28
Yeah, so I really believe life is a journey. It’s not this one moment. I had come up through asset management. I ran a hedge fund ultimately, actually with our co founder who’s also been a lifelong friend. I introduced him to his wife, and he was in our wedding party, a good friend of my husband. So we have a really interesting and bordering on almost 25 year plus partnerships, so it’s quite special. But when I was an investor, I invested in subscription based businesses like cable, wireless and satellite. I invested in turnarounds but in the Early 2000s, Apple Priceline and Amazon were all turnarounds. They were products that became platforms. I invested in aerospace and defense where biometrics was a piece I ultimately invested in biometric companies. And so clear finding clear was the convergence of a turnaround because it had stopped doing business. It was a platform where it was a product, it started in travel that we believe we could build into an identity platform. It was a consumer facing business that you could really change the way people lived. And it was leveraging biometrics, which to me were the and safer and easier in a post 911 environment that which made you safer, made it harder, and that which made it easier made you less safe, it really was the and and it had been used outside the US for voting in Brazil or financial services in Asia, or, you know, in our defense and military. But we believed in the consumerization of biometrics. So the aha moment was, ultimately I believed I wanted to build a company. As opposed to being a passive investor in a company, I thought of controlling the cash flows and being able to deploy them to build a long term business. I think when you get to the age of I hold was I at the time pi 35. You want to build something that changes the world, as opposed to, you know, investing in other people’s dreams, and we happen to find clear, and we bought it with our own personal capital and some outside investors with this vision of using biometrics in travel and beyond, think about healthcare, think about online marketplaces where you need trust and frictionless experiences. So and then the little thing, the little added fire is I’m a terrible flier. Turbulence made me nervous terrorism made me nervous after 911, leaving my family and all the time and the unpredictability, it’s a really chaotic experience. And I really saw clear as the Calm in the Chaos, and this total transformation, not just at the checkpoint, but from the time you leave your house to the time you get to your gate. And so it was all these things, that that led us to restarting this company.

Kara Goldin 7:12
So you decide to restart the company. And I mean, I can just only imagine what it’s like dealing with the airports, the, you know, the what was all the red tape that you had to get through in order to actually get this off the ground? Do you remember those like early early days?

Caryn Seidman Becker 7:32
And it look, red tape seems to be a part of doing business no matter how big you are. And it’s interesting, because I do not like bureaucracy, or politics. I think you do what’s right, innovation is the best form of competition, you bring value to consumers or to stakeholders. And that’s the best way to win. But not everyone in the world thinks that way. And so trying to navigate and get you know, innovation is about bringing people what they did not know they want it. So when you were bringing biometrics to people, I remember our first meeting at TSA. And we said we were really excited about clear, and they said, Why would you do biometrics? And I said, because it’s the future. Right? And that was 2010. And now they’re saying it right? It is the future? And our view is it’s the present, what could we do in the future? You know, but I think it is about building the power of partnerships. And I think when you can bring value to your partners, and you can prove it with data, whether it be customer delight, throughput, better efficiency, that it takes time, right, we’re 13 years in, and it certainly you know, overnight successes doesn’t it’s not a thing for most people, certainly not for us. But I think when you just do the right thing with integrity, you show the results, you delight multiple stakeholders, you know, at clear, we enhance Homeland Security, we delight travelers, our airport partners participate in revenue, so we help fund infrastructure. And with 4000 team members around the country. We’re, you know, creating jobs and bringing great ambassadors to the airport floor there to welcome you at 430 in the morning, as good as the technology is, and the technology is awesome. It’s the people who bring technology to life who introduced you to it, who helped you trust it and learn from it. So yeah, you know, there’s a lot I won’t call it red tape. There’s a lot of stakeholders. Yeah. And it takes a while to bring them along.

Kara Goldin 9:24
How many airports are you in now?

Caryn Seidman Becker 9:27
Today, we’re in 52 airports, with over 140 lanes with over 1000 pods. And 3500 of our team members are on airport floors there to welcome travelers every morning. And there’s nothing better than getting to a clear lane to hear. Welcome back.

Kara Goldin 9:44
How do you navigate the complex landscape of regulations? I mean, are they changing that much over time? I mean, do you feel like even over the last few years, I want to talk about COVID Obviously that that word that nobody really wants to talk About and all the brilliance that I saw you guys doing. But have things changed a lot over the last few years for you.

Caryn Seidman Becker 10:08
For us no, because we’ve tried to lead but absolutely in the world of biometrics, right, it wasn’t a thing 13 years ago. So when I think about privacy, data security, when I think about racial bias and facial recognition, these are not topics that were had 13 years ago, they are here today, and they are real. And as part of our culture and who I am, you gotta lean forward, talk about these things and solve them. So from a privacy perspective, we were always opt in, we were always about you have access to in control of your information, you can purge it at any time, we do not sell or share information, we secure information in order to deliver services. And, and so we’ve always been at the forefront of these things. I think leadership is about seeing the future and trying to get ahead of it. And so I think you’ll continue to see these things, you see biometric rules in different states, I certainly think there needs to be some federal regulation on it. And so I do think the regulatory environment continues to evolve, I hope that it evolves in a good way, because privacy is really important, right? People data should not be sold, they should not be opting out, they should be opting in that way, you always know what you’re a part of. And so I think we’ve tried to be on the right side. And we’ve tried to be very communicative and very transparent, so that people will never be surprised, and that we’re always communicating with regulators. Because in new technology, there will be regulation, right. And so and there should be, it just needs to be appropriate.

Kara Goldin 11:45
I loved watching you guys. And I think the the term brilliant came out of my mouth multiple times describing what you and the team at COVID was doing. But can you talk a little bit about during that time, COVID hits, airline travel is decreased. And suddenly you were there helping people make it a little bit easier to travel and show your card and capture all of this information. I’d love to hear from you.

Caryn Seidman Becker 12:18
So for you know, again, I go back to getting ahead of things and not having your head in the sand. So on February 25, we realized that I started ordering a lot of groceries. And you know, we were hearing what was going on in Asia in Europe and started talking to a lot of people. On February 25, we took our marketing budget to zero, I took my salary to zero and our co founder took his salary to zero. And we did that to help take care of our ambassadors thinking what was coming. And I started buying a lot of groceries for my family. And every time I left the house, my husband is like, what are you doing, I was like, I’m going to stock up for our freezer. And he thought I was nuts. And then when we had more wild salmon in the freezer than you knew what to do with and cans of Lysol and whites, I was like, see, you gotta get ahead of things. And so, you know, we really understood what I mean, not to that extent, we didn’t think travel is gonna go down 98%. But we knew that volumes were going to get crushed. And we wanted to get ahead of it from a cost structure perspective, taking care of our ambassadors, giving them a leave of absence and paying them while they were home and making sure that when they came back, that they knew that they had jobs. And at that, so then in the middle of March 11, we pivoted to recognizing that we could use our technology connecting you to all the things that made you you that would be connecting you to your COVID. At the time, it would have been lab results. Ultimately, it was your vaccine results. We had the technology in place, right? It’s there’s a lot of luck and a lot of timing involved in business, we had just completed and launched our mobile app right into the teeth of COVID. So like, of course, nobody was using it. But we had the capability. We had done some things of connecting you to your ticket to get into the LA FC Game and things like that. So we could build connections based on and we had biometric boarding pass, we connect you to your boarding pass. So we had the capabilities and the infrastructure. We started talking to sports teams and leagues, we started talking to a lot of people in the travel industry. And so our first initiative at Health pass was helping the NHL reopen for the Stanley Cup there had never been a miss Stanley Cup and like get this wrong for like, even through the wars. And so they opened in Canada and Toronto and Edmonton and our health pass helped them and then it helped businesses reopen and people get back and feel competent restaurants we integrated with OpenTable and with resi. So it was a really important moment to understand the power of the platform. And today what we call powered by clear that you are you in travel. But we can also bring a verify with clear to our partners and in their apps. You can just verify because you’re always you.

Kara Goldin 14:58
Yeah, no it was apps salutely Brilliant, and then obviously into conferences, you were able to do that when conferences were just starting to open up, you were able to be a partner for them, too. So it was really, really brilliant.

Caryn Seidman Becker 15:13
That’s very kind of you to say, I think it was a moment where people recognized identity is foundational, right? You started taking out your driver’s license to get into a restaurant or to get into your office building. And so this concept of like, your credit card is a payment vehicle, but it’s really your identity, right? It’s saying this is yours, or your healthcare insurance card, or your building access card, there’s so many pieces of you know, or when you say you’re a certified nurse in the state of New York, those are all part of your identity. And so I think COVID was this moment, both online and in person where identity in the the rudimentary nature of it became so prevalent. And I think that’s changed how people think about the world in a post COVID environment.

Kara Goldin 15:57
I was reading an article from an interview that you did, it sort of goes along with this question, this next question I have, which is how do you envision consumers using clear in the future? And it was fascinating to me hearing you talk about the concept of wallets today? And how maybe there’s a way for your system to kind of tie into that as well. I’m like, it just was like, boom, but can you talk a little bit about that?

Caryn Seidman Becker 16:24
Yes, I like a nice wallet as much as your next person. But I’m not sure why they exist, right? Because you’re holding cards to prove who you are and what you have access to. And even a digital wallet is still holding them your face? Is your wallet, it is all of your credentials, right? I’m Karen and I’m an employee of clear and have access to the 10th floor. Or I’m Karen. And I’m covered by this insurance. And I have you know credit card that can do the $20 copay. Right depending on where you are, and the information that’s needed. If I opt in to share that, then that is a better, easier, safer customer experience, partner experience more economically efficient as well. So when you start to think about it, like your mind goes, well, all the time you’re typing in the passwords, and your credit card information. And all these things, you’re filling out forms at the doctor filling out clipboards, like our whole goal is to do away with clipboards. There’s so much medical information and you’re like writing it down, putting the pen back. It just doesn’t make any sense in this day and age. And so again, when you think about time, and you multiply all these experiences out, like my next obsession is bags at airports. I mean, I have a lot of obsessions over on the healthcare side and the digital marketplace. You wait in line to drop your bag, you wait in line at the baggage carousel like, I don’t know, I’ll drop my bag at the curb and it should show up where I am. Yeah, right. Like better safer. That’s like an hour of time. Yeah, you do that? How many times a year. And so I think it’d be better for the airlines as well. So I really think that when you think about the convenience, economy and friction free experiences, and you lead with the customer. And think about all of these use cases, it’s very powerful.

Kara Goldin 18:09
So what road blocks do you have in going like International? With clear, I mean, is that is that a I wish you were at so many airports that I’ve been at traveling around the world?

Caryn Seidman Becker 18:24
Well, you should check out our reserved lanes, we’ve started to launch internationally, they’re non biometric. But you can make a reservation and a bunch of the airports in Germany and Reykjavik and Amsterdam. So it’s coming in Italy. And so you can make a reservation non biometric. We do have other parts of clear, that are international, not yet our biometric travel part, but certainly are powered by clear our platform side, you’ll see more international there, that’s mobile, that’s facial, but biometrics in the airport. It’s been longer and harder, because now you’re dealing with all these different government bodies. So I think we’ll get there. But right now, we’re focused on bringing some other products with partners internationally, but our reserve I think we might have like about a dozen or so is doing great.

Kara Goldin 19:14
And growing, I would imagine. So,

Caryn Seidman Becker 19:17
you know, the German population does not like to wait in line, they like predictable experiences. So we’ve had a lot of success there.

Kara Goldin 19:26
When you look at at your journey from from the beginning of growing clear, everybody has a story, every founder where maybe something didn’t work out the way that you wanted it to work out, you thought, Oh, this is gonna be great, or it didn’t. It didn’t fly. Is there any story that comes to mind that you really think of that? I wouldn’t say it was a failure necessarily, but it was just, you know, not what you thought it was going to be? or something where where it was just tough. Maybe there was an airport that was you know, wasn’t ready for clear yet or something like that?

Caryn Seidman Becker 20:04
Well, there’s still a few that we’re not in, you know, it’s interesting. You have a vision, you think you try to create value for all stakeholders. And, you know, it’s it’s our first era Delta was transformational for us in 2016, we’ve announced partnerships with Delta united, Alaska, Hawaii. So there’s a few airlines who are not yet partners with us. And I think trying to, and their customers are screaming for it. So figuring out, you know, it’s not them, it’s us, right? We’re obviously not delivering the story or the or the value that they’re necessarily looking for. Maybe we haven’t shared with them how much their customers want it. So not all airlines are yet partners. And, and so I think we have opportunities there. While we’re in 52 airports and a few more in the pipeline, we’re not I think we’ve said sort of 7580 domestic airports are opportunity set. So we’re not in all of those yet. Sometimes it’s just time, but sometimes, you know, not everyone buys into innovation. Or sometimes I think there’s people I remember, we were talking to a sports team. And they said, We have no wait times. And I said, Do you ever go down before the game starts? And and watch what’s happening? Right? And the answer was no, some heads of airports, you know, they they don’t, they’re not necessarily hearing or seeing what their customers are seeing. And so our job is to understand what they need and deliver the value that they’re looking for, or to better explain to them right. So it’s might be a failure on our part, I think you have to be very humbled when somebody isn’t buying what you’re selling to understand why. Gosh, all I think about our failures. I mean, every day, when we started, I said in five years, if more than 50% of our revenues come from airports, we’ve failed. And still a disproportionate amount of our revenues come from airports. So I think the platform opportunity is in front of us we didn’t have we didn’t go to the cloud till 2016 and mobile till 2019. So I think that’s still really in front of us. You know, one of the things we say at Clear is to be a humble warrior. I’m humbled by all the things that we haven’t done versus what we have done. You know, I was the girl who got all A’s and a B, and my dad said, Would you get the B? And so right, I don’t I don’t focus on the success, I focus on all the things that we can do better, who doesn’t want to get better every day. And I think that these are really early days, it clear. We were early on biometrics. But when you look at the opportunity set, travel is surging, and travel is hard and getting harder. A big thing we are talking about here at clear right now is a million more by 2030. There’s going to be a million more people coming through airports every day. Do you know what your pieces of luggage that is, you know, many more parking spots. That is you know, how many more people that is through security boarding planes, like, what are we going to do? And so I think the opportunity set in front of us is so much bigger than even where we are today. I think we’ve just barely scratched the surface. So I feel like a daily failure. Great news, because I think we have so much that we haven’t done and so much in front of us. Yeah, you

Kara Goldin 23:10
sound like a not only a CEO, but also a founder, right? You’re always trying to be better, but always looking at what are the lessons and learnings from somebody

Caryn Seidman Becker 23:21
and a real type a gal? So it’s a it’s an it’s a toxic cocktail?

Kara Goldin 23:24
Yes, exactly. So you mentioned, you know, what’s coming for the future. But can you share any exciting upcoming initiatives that you have coming up?

Caryn Seidman Becker 23:36
Well, I think what we’ve announced late is actually incredibly exciting. And so we announced a partnership with LinkedIn, where we are their verified identity backbone, because when you think of LinkedIn, right, the most trusted network, the professional network with 200 million users domestically, and almost 900 million around the world. You know, if I’m connecting with you on LinkedIn, it’s because I believe you are who you say you are, and that you’ve done what you’ve said, you’ve done. But that’s about verified identity. And so LinkedIn is really focused on that, and really values our trusted brand and our network, right, this concept of networked identity. So we’re very excited about bringing trust online trust, online matters and democratizing that trust is massively important. So very early days, they’re very excited about that. Also very excited about the healthcare partnerships we’ve launched of late, whether it be you health or WellStar, or health gorilla. So there was, you know, this Cures Act that was started a few years ago and is really being enforced now about the patient’s having access to and control of their health care information. And I think that that is so massively important and transformative for our healthcare system. And so that starts with identity going back to identity is foundational. So we’re really excited about what we can do for both patients and doctors and nurses, health care professionals. In the healthcare space. Think about telehealth How do I know who you are? How do you know who I am. And so it’s just so massively important this concept of identity, for safer and easier patient experiences. So those are the areas that we’re really focused on from the platform side. And I would say the last thing that we’re very excited about, beyond continuing to grow our biometric lanes in airports, we’ve been working for almost three years to launch precheck, to be an enrollment provider for TSA on precheck. And that’s really leveraging our core capabilities. And we think that there’s such an enormous opportunity there, again, to start to transform travel, and that pre check is a really exciting product. And even though it’s about 12 years old, I want to say, there’s so much opportunity there. So we’re excited to launch that as well.

Kara Goldin 25:45
No, it’s It’s absolutely awesome. And so it saves you so much time. What do you think is the piece to get consumers right to know who you are? And I mean, how do you do that? You know, people are coming into airports, I’ve had so many friends that maybe do not travel as much as I do that are like, what is the clear thing? Exactly? We’re all be running through the line, and somebody will be in the other line there. Like, how did you get through so fast? Like? How do you get people to know what you’re doing?

Caryn Seidman Becker 26:18
So I think a few things, number one, technology and new technology, and for a lot of people still biometrics and clear are new, right? We’ve launched a disproportionate number of our airports just in the past few years. So even though we were around for a while, we were only in 12 airports after six years. So the last 40 have really come over the last six years and change. So our ambassador, sharing the story, explaining it right, explaining the technology, the privacy, the trust, the opportunities, and the efficiencies are really important. partners like American Express, and our airline partners certainly share the story. But let’s be honest, and we have over 90% retention, the best way to share your story is word of mouth. And people enroll their family members, people enroll people with guest passes. But it’s about delighting people. And also what have you done for me lately? Did we grow our network? Did we add products? Did our technology get better and faster? Can you use it at your local sports stadium. And so delighting your customers is the best way word of mouth in this day. And age is certainly the most powerful form, I think of advertising and, and we’re a non conventional marketing company. In fact, we have our first like sort of real cmo starting in a few weeks. It’s been through word of mouth through innovation through product through network through use cases. That’s how we’ve focused on getting the word out there.

Kara Goldin 27:39
That’s awesome. How about on college campuses? Are you working on any of those stadiums? I know that that’s always a tricky thing when you go to college games.

Caryn Seidman Becker 27:48
So I went to the University of Michigan, big house 110,000 strong. So if there’s any place to start, it’s there. We are not in college stadiums yet. I do think we did. We did a little bit there, but not really. And so I think that’s an opportunity for us for the future.

Kara Goldin 28:04
Definitely. So you are, I guess the rare breed of of founders, co founders that has not only grown and scaled the company, but also taken a company public. So how different is that for you? Obviously, you had worked on Wall Street before. So you weren’t totally new to this world. But having your own company and and running a company that’s a public company, how different is that for you versus a private, you know, a private company.

Caryn Seidman Becker 28:38
I’m not materially different. I come from investing in the private and in the public sector. And so I knew the management teams that I adored and thought had created great value through organic growth, inorganic growth, capital allocation, new products, platform systems, etc. So I’ve seen greatness, and I’ve seen terrible, so you try to take from the best and avoid the worst. And, you know, we have a vision for the long term of what we want to do and how we want to do it. And we’re, you know, we’re trying to live that every day. And we are focused on the long term, but the long term is made up of a bunch of near term. So I will say it was a really special day to go public at the New York Stock Exchange to have my family there to share that with our clear team members and our ambassadors. It was very special. It’s a really special institution. And I think that you’re building a company for the long term, whether it be in public or private, you’re allocating capital, whether it be through acquisitions, or share repurchase or dividends. Like I’m, I’m living what I learned from the greatest and again, avoid what the worst did. There were quite a few of those too. And so it’s been it’s been a really fun two years that we’re we just passed our two year anniversary. It’s been it’s been an incredible two years and there’s an accountability as a fiduciary and I felt that Not before. And I feel that now and everybody here feels that.

Kara Goldin 30:02
Yeah. And I think what I’ve heard from other CEOs is that are running public companies and have come from the private sector. It’s, you know, if you had a fiscally responsible, private company, and you know, then you shouldn’t be worried about it. Right? You know,

Caryn Seidman Becker 30:18
look, we have a great board, really strong corporate governance, but we were doing that as a private company, right? Like, it’s like, you do the right thing. There’s definitely more cost involved in legal and audit. But I think it’s a real honor. There’s only a few 1000 of them in the US. And I think it gives you a lot of optionality when you’re a public company. So so it’s been great. I love

Kara Goldin 30:42
it. And the last question, one lesson in leadership that you really live by,

Caryn Seidman Becker 30:51
you know, Shimon Peres has a very good saying it’s optimists and pessimists die the same way, but they live very different lives. And he also talked about leaders, public servants, but I’m just gonna say leaders, their job is to lift people up not to crush them. And so really trying to lift people up to make them better, which makes us better and and leading by example. So you know, you jump first eat last, that I, that whole concept I live by, and you want to make people better, you want to lift them up, you want to inspire and motivate them, and then you want to lead by example, and show them how to do it. You know, I look I look at the world we live in public servants should lift people up, not crush people. And I think if everyone lived that we’d be in a much better place today.

Kara Goldin 31:47
I love that. Karen, thank you so much. Karen Seidman, Becker, CEO of clear, such an honor, and it’s so inspiring everything that you’ve talked with us about today, and so educational as well. So thank you for coming on. And thanks, everyone, for listening. Have a great rest of the week. Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would, please give us a review. And feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit and of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my book undaunted, which I share my journey, including founding and building hint. We are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And thanks everyone for listening. Have a great rest of the week, and 2023 and good bye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book.com and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening

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