Colleen Cutcliffe: Co-Founder & CEO of Pendulum

Episode 596

On this episode of The Kara Goldin Show, Colleen Cutcliffe, Co-Founder and CEO of Pendulum Therapeutics, shares her incredible journey of disrupting the probiotics industry and pioneering advancements in metabolic health. With over 15 years of experience in biotech and academia, Colleen leads Pendulum in developing science-backed products that address imbalances in the microbiome, transforming lives from the inside out.
Colleen dives deep into how her scientific background and passion for health led to the founding of Pendulum, the challenges she faced in building the company, and how they’ve brought on investors like Sequoia Capital and the Mayo Clinic. We also discuss Pendulum’s groundbreaking GLP-1 Probiotic and the exciting partnership with Academy Award® winner Halle Berry as the company’s Chief Communications Officer.
If you’re interested in science, entrepreneurship, and the future of health, this episode is packed with insights into the world of probiotics, microbiome research, and what it takes to build a mission-driven company. Tune in for a conversation filled with lessons on innovation, leadership, and revolutionizing health from the inside out. Now on The Kara Goldin Show.

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Transcript

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. I want to be you. Just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked out, knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control. Control. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs and really, some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Kara Goldin show. Super excited to have our next guest. Here. We have Colleen Cutcliffe, who is the co founder and CEO of Pendulum, also known as Pendulum Therapeutics, but we’ll go by Pendulum today, and Colleen is a powerhouse in the world of biotech, with over 15 years of experience and academia, pharmaceuticals and biotech, but now she’s on a mission to revolutionize metabolic health by addressing imbalances in the microbiome. She has done an incredible job of creating some great, great products. She also has a relationship with that. We’ll get to hear about with Halle Berry, who is an investor and her chief communications officer as well. But really, the science behind these products and the actual products themselves and the company that she’s building made me super excited to have her on the show today to really talk about it. So welcome Colleen.

Colleen Cutcliffe 1:45
Thank you so much for having me

Kara Goldin 1:46
absolutely. So let’s start with your background. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey and what led you to founding Pendulum? Sure.

Colleen Cutcliffe 1:56
Well, my background is basic science research, so I have a PhD in biochemistry and molecular biology from Johns Hopkins. I did a pretty traditional postdoc at Northwestern and then I moved out to the Bay Area. I worked in a pharmaceutical company. We were doing research on Parkinson’s disease and trying to develop drugs for for Parkinson’s and then I did what everybody does in Silicon Valley, I joined a startup company, and it was a DNA sequencing company. I was still leading R and D and biology in that company, so nothing on the business side. Then that company went through some rapid growth. We went public, and on the other side of that IPO, I started Pendulum. And there were a couple of things that were really exciting to me that kind of led me to start the company. One was things like probiotics and yogurts have been on the shelves for decades, but they’re actually premised all in the same ingredients that have been out there for over 50 years. And so microbiome science was just starting to emerge, and it’s all premised on DNA sequencing being accessible enough to actually look at what are all the microbes, and how can they impact your health? And so there was this big data opportunity, and an opportunity to actually create next generation microbiome intervention. So from a from a data standpoint, I just thought, wow, there’s a big opportunity to have an impact in health in this entirely new part of the body that we’ve never really understood before. And then, on a personal level, I had my first daughter was born almost two months prematurely. And there was this study that came out by Marty blazer at NYU right when we were thinking about this company idea. And he showed that babies who were born prematurely, who go on antibiotics while they’re in the hospital, later on in life, are more prone to obesity and type two diabetes and basically metabolic disorders. And the Mayo Clinic actually repeated that study, and they showed that if you’re a kid under two years old, and you’re on a lot of antibiotics later on in life, you’re prone to not just metabolic disorders like obesity and diabetes, but also allergies, asthma, ADHD, celiac disease, and so there are all these things that are disrupting your microbiome early in life through these antibiotics that show up later on in life as these chronic illnesses. And so for me, it felt like, oh my gosh, this new science is a place where we could help millions of people, including my own daughter. Why not give it a shot?

Kara Goldin 4:18
I love it. So Pendulum is pioneering the next frontier of metabolic health. You decide to do this company, and I love the why behind it, but what were the first products that you actually came out with? Well,

Colleen Cutcliffe 4:33
first of all, it took us almost a decade to come out with our first product. So we’ve only been on the market for a few years, but we’ve actually been around for over, you know, 11 years. And the reason why it took us so long to make a product is because we were starting with data. You know, what is in the microbiome? What is related to metabolism? What is this gut metabolism axis? And how can we start to perturb that and improve people’s metabolism? And then there was just this. Series of lab tests, preclinical trials, clinical trials, before we felt like we’ve created an innovative product that can actually boost metabolism, and so our flagship product, Pendulum glucose control is the world’s first and actually still the only microbiome intervention that is clinically proven to lower a 1c and blood glucose spikes in people with diabetes. There is no other product like that, and actually works through the GLP one pathway. So before ozempic and wegovy kind of started having their heyday, we’ve been working on this pathway for a decade and trying to stimulate GLP one naturally through your microbiome. And so really, a lot of what went into the first product was just data and figuring out what is the microbiome and how can it impact our metabolism. And, you know, really, we all sort of think about diet and exercise as the main ways to impact our metabolism, and the microbiome is sort of this third pillar that plays a really important role, and that’s what we’ve been targeting.

Kara Goldin 5:58
So we hear a lot about lately? Obviously, the probiotic has been around for a while. I think you have to be hiding under a rock if you haven’t heard about probiotics. But now there’s this prebiotic that has come up for most consumers. What do you think is the most confusing for consumers around the whole topic of pre and probiotics, and how does Pendulum fall into really helping to solve a lot of that confusion?

Colleen Cutcliffe 6:32
Yeah, I think, I mean, just speaking personally, I think the most confusing thing in this space, for me is if you’ve ever stood in a Whole Foods or a CVS, and just looked at shelves and shelves of prebiotics and probiotics, and just thinking, I want good gut health, what do I need? And how do I even pick what’s right for me? And so I think that’s, you know, understanding, what are the opportunities in gut health, and what are you trying to solve and improve? And then what’s the right product for you? Those, I think are sort of the biggest questions, and whether it’s a probiotic or a prebiotic, these are just the tools. The real question is, what am I trying to improve? And which then, therefore tool do I need to improve it? And so at Pendulum, we’ve really tried to move away from general gut health, and you know, the kind of typical claims that are made around probiotics, and really focus in on where we’re playing, which is this gut metabolism space. And so when we release Pendulum glucose control, this is you have type two diabetes and you want to lower your blood glucose spikes in your A, 1c, this is the probiotic that’s going to help you tackle that problem. In addition to all the other tools that you’re using for metabolic syndrome, this is what you need. And we’ve really been focused on metabolism. So the other products are really centered around, I’m trying to boost my metabolism through my microbiome. And what are the different products that I can use on that and and Pendulum is the only company that has prebiotics and probiotics that are really targeting improving your metabolic health, the way your body digests food to improve your metabolism, that’s what we’re really focused on. And we are the only probiotics company that is, you know, backing this with data and bringing these innovative solutions to market around that in terms of the definitions of prebiotics and probiotics, you have to do like a quick 101, here, which is that, first of all, the microbiome is all of the bacteria and viruses and fungi that live in us and on us, and we’ve co evolved with them, and they play a really important part in our health. We’re constantly trying to kill them with antibacterial soaps and antiseptic wipes and antibiotic use, and some of them are bad, and we do want to kill them, but the vast majority of the ones that have evolved with us are actually really important for our health. And so when we kill them, and when we’re constantly kind of doing these things in our everyday routine that we think are good for us, that are actually wiping out our microbiome, we’re actually having kind of unseen negative impacts on our own health. And we can get more into that, but that’s what the microbiome is. It’s all these bacterium, viruses and fungi, probiotics refer to those actual bugs. So the actual bacterial strains are the probiotic, and the prebiotic is the food that feeds them. And so when you think about probiotics, that’s going to be like when you look at a bottle, things like lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium. And prebiotics can be things like fibers and polyphenols. And prebiotics are things that you can also get from food. So like, your produce section will have foods that are really high in fibers, really high in polyphenols. And then for a lot of these probiotic strains, you can get them in foods that like fermented foods and yogurts. And so that’s kind of the distinction between those two, but they really work together.

Kara Goldin 9:34
So how does somebody figure out the first step? Like they’re thinking, maybe their stomach is hurting. Maybe they’re trying to figure out, am I really as healthy as I need to be? And they come on to your site, what do you recommend as like step number one for them to go into and and try Pendulum.

Colleen Cutcliffe 9:53
I think the first thing is, we try to put a lot of educational content on the. On the website. And so I think the first thing is always like, kind of read and try to get knowledgeable about stuff and understand, you know, what is it that I’m gonna be putting into my body, and what can I expect to come out of this? I mean, we have on our website a quiz that you can use to try to direct you to the right product. And generally speaking, you know, I think it’s helpful if you know what the problem is that you’re trying to solve and that you have some way to document, even if it’s just a diary, like you’re writing down, this is the thing that I’m having, and how frequently Am I having that issue? And then after on the product, you can then be measuring on the other side of that, you know, Did it improve or not improve? And some of these are hard measurements, like your blood work, you’ll be able to see, like, did my blood glucose levels go down? I’m wearing contiguous glucose monitor to that change. But a lot of them are soft benefits. So when we don’t have strong metabolism, when we have a a gut microbiome that is deficient in some of these metabolite metabolites and these metabolic character traits, it can show up for us in terms of like a roller coaster ride throughout the day. And what I mean by that is, if you experience post lunch slump, if you have days where you’re like, Well, I just seem to have more brain fog on some days and other days, if you are, you know, have a sugar high, and then, you know, you’re having a sugar crash. I mean, these are the kinds of roller coaster rides that we find ourselves on, where we feel it. You really feel that. And so what you’re looking for is, can I kind of level all that out, instead of being on this roller coaster ride of big glucose spikes and big glucose crashes, can I minimize those and then start to feel a little bit more stable throughout my day, with my energy, my clarity of thinking, and all of those sorts of things?

Kara Goldin 11:36
I think it’s so interesting. My my college and after college, kids are in and out of our house now, and they’re becoming more and more interested in all of this, you know, not just their own health, but also there’s so much information coming at them. I mean, whether it’s on social media or Tiktok, or, you know, whatever platform there. What do you think is the most confusing thing that’s out there, especially to to so many, I guess it really kind of depends, maybe on age to some extent. But do you, do you see some of your audience that’s coming in that just, you know, seems to want a quick fix. I guess I don’t. I’m so curious, like, what you’re seeing around this, because I do think pre and Probiotics have become kind of a mainstay for people at, you know, my age, the Gen X, the older millennials, the younger millennials. But now I see like, the Gen Z coming up, and they’re paying a lot more attention to it. But I I’m so curious what you think about that.

Colleen Cutcliffe 12:47
Yeah, I think you’re right for us. We see a lot of people coming on. I mean, there’s an age where you start really thinking about your metabolism. I mean, we all remember a time where we could eat or drink wherever we wanted to, and we didn’t worry about anything. And then there comes a day where you’re like, Okay, now I start watching what I’m eating, start watching how much exercise I’m doing. And so I think that those tend to be the audience that then comes to us, because they’re really looking for they have an acute problem, and they’re looking for a solution. And they tend to be people who are, you know, to your point, maybe more like you and I, who aren’t used to getting, you know, all of our information for all of our lives directly from social media. We maybe remember a time where you had to go to the library to learn anything. And so I think that it’s an audience that is really kind of wants to see the data, wants to know what are the outcomes to experience? And they’re not really going to be, I think, you know, dazzled by, you know, some of the flash in the pan thing, they’re really looking for solutions. And many of them are thinking about, how do I pair this with other things that I’m doing too, right? What if I’m on Metformin? Can I still take this thing? And so I think we get those sorts of things. But to your point, as the younger generation start to realize how fundamental gut health is to all of their health and they they’re, like, so much smarter than us in thinking about true preventative medicine, because they’re jumping on it, you know, now, instead of waiting till they’re, you know, already experiencing the problem, I think for those individuals, it’s a different set of questions. They’re not sort of saying, like, here’s my problem and here’s what I’m currently doing, trying to solve for it. And how does this integrate into it? They’re really looking for, you know, is this thing going to help me in the longer term? Am I really establishing a core routine today that’s going to help me be healthier in the long run? And I think for them, that data is really more grounded in what is microbiome science? What are these different probiotics? What’s the difference between them, and how often do I need to take these and do I have to be on them for the rest of my life? And so I think all of those are awesome questions, and we try to address those all on the website. So happy to dig into any of those.

Kara Goldin 14:55
I love it. So Halle Berry is an investor. Uninvolved in your company. How did that come about?

Colleen Cutcliffe 15:02
Well, a lot of people don’t know Halle Berry actually has diabetes, because we, you know, often think of her as being such an icon of health. And so I think that, you know, she came out as having diabetes and trying to figure out what are all the natural ways in order to kind of reverse that diabetes. And she, as you might imagine, is somebody who gets thrown lots of products get thrown at her for trial, including lots of supplements and probiotics. And she is from Cleveland originally, and so she has a relationship with the Cleveland Clinic. And so she tells this story about, you know, they’ve always been a part of her health, and kind of providing her with information about new stuff coming out. And so she tried Pendulum glucose control. And you know, it’s really her story to share, but I’ll say that she’s sort of publicly talked about how much it lowered her a 1c and for somebody who’s really health conscious, and who you know is is already doing all the right things on the Nutrition and Exercise Front, to tell you the truth, like, it’s not really clear that you could really help someone like that with a microbiome intervention, but the fact that it lowered her a 1c really got her bought in, and so then she reached out. We got a chance to meet. We kind of hit it off right away, because in a lot of ways, we’re in a similar stage of life. I mean, we have kids that are approximately the same age. We’re both really interested in, how do you help people improve their health and in these natural ways? And she’s super smart. I mean, like I said, a lot of products get thrown at her, and she has to figure out, like, what is actually real and not real. And so that’s kind of how the relationship started. Was really that she experienced this health benefit, and for a long time that was it like that. She would, you know, call with questions, and we talk about that. And after about a year of that, she said, Look, your product has helped me so much. I really want to help your company. I love all the science behind it, but I think you could really use a lot more kind of outward engagement and talking about the products and in ways that people can really understand it. Let me help you. How can I help you? And so she made an investment in the company, and really we came, you know, in close together to figure out, how do we communicate this out, and even gave her like a title around it, to try to define what her role was. And she’s just been amazing. So she and I have done talks together. She posts on her own social media account as well, and so really just trying to get the word out there about what our products have done for her and how they might benefit other people, and really building the credibility of the brand too as part of that. So she’s an amazing person. Just on a personal level, she’s super smart, very kind, and really interested in making a positive mark in the world around her. I

Kara Goldin 17:44
love it. I think it was a great person to have involved in in your company, for sure. So this is your first company. You’re the co founder and CEO of this company. How different is starting a company and running a company? How different is it than you thought it would be?

Colleen Cutcliffe 18:07
You know, the drill. I think you don’t really even know anything about the job. It’s not like there’s a job description. You’re like, oh, that seems like me, really, we had this problem and this need that we were trying to solve. And, you know, we’ve been very product centric, and I’ve been very product centric since day one, and driven by this mission. What I didn’t know about the job was really started at day one, which is, well, how do you get money to fund a company? What are all the legal things you have to know about starting a company? Finance, which is still like, not my favorite topic. You know, how do you think about the fiscal responsibilities of this role? And then where finance can really guide you on making decisions about the business, and then everything about building this beyond R and D. Like, I, my background is all in science and R and D and thinking about product, but it’s not good enough to make a product. You have to be able to get it into the hands of people’s lives if you really want to transform health. So it started with, you know, ideas around the science. Then how do you really run clinical trials that? I didn’t know how to do any of that. So we had to build teams around that, then actually manufacturing the product. I thought we’d just get somebody else to manufacture. And it turns out these novel ingredients, we had to figure out how to manufacture it ourselves, supply chain, manufacturing plants, all of this stuff we had to learn. And then lastly, how do you bring it to market? What are go to market plans? Even I didn’t know any of this stuff. And so really, how much of it was a surprise? All of it,

Kara Goldin 19:34
yeah, no, it’s, it’s so true. And how much has your products changed since you first launched?

Colleen Cutcliffe 19:42
The products haven’t changed. We’ve really just grown out the the different offerings based on trying to understand what are people’s needs. Everybody, I think, thinks about metabolism, but they have they’re thinking about metabolism in different ways. And so if you have type two diabetes, you’re thinking. About metabolism in one way. If you are, you know, obese or have pre diabetes, or diabetes runs in your family, you’re thinking about it in another way. And then if you’re aging, you know, you’re thinking about it in a third way. And then there’s sort of the fourth way, which is, I just want to be as metabolically healthy as I possibly can. And so even thinking about those different types of individuals and trying to create products that feel more customized to what their need state is, and can really deliver on the promise that they’re trying to fulfill. So if you have diabetes, we have Pendulum glucose control. If diabetes runs in your family and you really want to get the clinical head start on it, Pendulum glucose control is for you. If you are experiencing prediabetes, obesity, or some of the deficits of aging on our metabolism, you know, GLP, one is really the probiotic for you. And then if you just generally want to be metabolically healthy, and you’re not really have a problem that you’re trying to solve for, metabolic daily is great. And so we’re really trying to create the products that are catering to what people are trying to solve for? Yeah,

Kara Goldin 21:02
no, I love it. So obviously you’ve got an incredible science background, I believe, like people want to buy things that they understand today, right? And that they can actually say, oh, yeah, that’s That’s it. How do you get it into a format that is simple, right for people, and how difficult has that been? Because obviously you guys are, I think you’ve really differentiated from some of the other things that are out there for most but there’s still so much confusion and so much out there that you’re competing with, even though your product is better, right? And so you sit there and think about, I’m sure, all the time, like, well, if people only knew this, then they would be able to or if people tried it, right, then they would be able to know that we’re just that much better. But how do you get it into that place? Because I think so often people, especially very scientific people, might just get caught up and sort of not being able to make it as as consumer facing. Yeah,

Colleen Cutcliffe 22:09
well, I would say we have not totally cracked the net on that, and we’re still working on it. You know, we’re pretty early stage in the market. But I think it’s sort of three things. The first is hiring the right team of people to help translate this science. I mean, I’m not going to be able to do that all on my own, and I have my own perspective on things, but getting great people on the team who can think about, how do we articulate this to these different audiences? What are the different levels of articulation we have to be able to to come to So hiring an amazing team of marketers and revenue drivers who are thinking about messaging. I think the second thing is proxies. So we’re a new brand. We are not something that you’ve known about for your whole life, and now we just come out with a new product and you’re going to trial it. So proxies for Who do you trust when it comes to your health become really important. So the fact that we’re backed by the Mayo Clinic, we’re the only probiotics company backed by the Mayo Clinic is a very big deal, especially in the medical circles, and for anybody who’s really thinking about, you know, that kind of credibility, people like Halle Berry become really important proxies. If you believe Halle Berry really, you know, thinks deeply about her health, and she’s vetting products, and she is a person that you trust who’s vetted these products for you, she’s a great proxy. We have a bunch of these different physicians who are out there talking about our product and presenting on it and on social media. And so you need these other people who have experienced benefit themselves or seen benefit in their patients, who other people trust to tell them. You know, the legitimate story podcasts like this one that I’m on, where you have an audience that’s trusting you to vet what’s out there and only bring them things that you think are credible and legitimate. These become really important. I think ways that we can showcase to people what we have is really differentiated, because the people who are advocating for us, they know, and they’re spending the time to help the people differentiate. So I think it’s the team. It’s really having, you know, proxies for, why should you trust us and trust the product? And then the third is really the customers themselves and the experience and being able to get that word out there. You know, 70% of our revenue is from returning customers. And so while we’re on this big growth of getting new people in, the product is working for all the people who are on it and they’re sticking with it. And so being able to show people this is the experience that you can expect and and really helping them track on that, I think, is the sort of third, really important component all of our customers.

Kara Goldin 24:35
I love it. So if you had to start Pendulum over today, knowing what you know, is there anything you do differently? Oh

Colleen Cutcliffe 24:43
my gosh, if I knew what I know now, I want to started it.

Kara Goldin 24:48
Yeah, that’s so true.

Colleen Cutcliffe 24:50
It’s like having children. Like, it’s best not to know too much before you get into it, you know? And I think, you know, in all seriousness, it’s, it’s extreme. Rewarding to create a set of products that really are benefiting people’s health, and we get the opportunity to hear amazing stories from both physicians and individuals on how these products have changed their lives. And I wouldn’t give that away for anything. I mean, that is the reason we’re here, the reason I wake up in the morning, the reason I love this company, and so what I, you know, suspected is that we could create products that would work, and I think would have been nice to know at the onset is all of these people really are going to benefit from the product and just keep going. And because it can, it can be kind of a downer path to start a company. You get a lot of no’s a lot of naysayers, and you don’t really know if it’s going to work out or not. You said are taking, like, series of leaps of faith. And so I think it would have been nice to know up front, like it’s it’s going to work out. You’re going to make something, it’s going to help people. You get these amazing stories that would have been awesome to just know.

Kara Goldin 25:55
Yeah, no, definitely. I think it’s in every industry. I hear that from the best entrepreneurs. So it’s it’s you, and I think you just have to be open to all those learnings, though, too, because I think that that’s such a powerful piece. And I think as hopefully, as you continue going on, you get smarter about all those steps that you thought were going to work, and then they didn’t work. And so really, really powerful. So Colleen Cutcliffe, co founder and CEO of Pendulum, thank you so much for joining us today. I loved I loved our conversation, but also just love Pendulum. So you are doing a fantastic job. Everyone needs to try it. We’ll have information in the show notes about the company, and best of luck to you guys.

Colleen Cutcliffe 26:46
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. And you know, we really want people to ask questions, so please come to our website and ask any questions you

Kara Goldin 26:53
have terrific thank you so much. Thanks. Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit. And of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms. At Kara Goldin, I would love to hear from you too. So feel free to DM me, and if you want to hear more about my journey. I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal, best selling book, undaunted, where I share more about my journey, including founding and building. Hint, we are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks for listening and goodbye for now. You.

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