Erica Bethe Levin: Founder & CEO of Globowl
Episode 613
On this episode of The Kara Goldin Show, I’m joined by Erica Bethe Levin, Founder and CEO of Globowl, an innovative baby and toddler food brand that’s bringing big flavors and early allergen introduction to little ones. Erica’s journey is inspiring—beginning with her successful marketing career for culinary giants like Daniel Boulud and Jean-Georges, and later, her role at restaurant tech company Reserve. But it was when she became a mom that Erica saw a need in the baby food market for authentic flavors and safer allergen introduction, leading her to launch Globowl.
We dive into Erica’s journey, from crafting recipes in her kitchen to building Globowl, and her experience growing a brand that introduces diverse flavors and allergen-friendly foods to babies. Erica also shares her story of being a contestant on Gordon Ramsay’s Food Stars, her dedication to Globowl’s mission, and how she’s grown the brand to be available in 300 stores across the U.S. If you’re interested in entrepreneurship, food industry insights, or just love hearing stories of innovation and resilience, this is an episode you don’t want to miss!
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https://www.globowl.com/
Transcript
Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. I want to be you. Just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked out, knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control. Control. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs and really, some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Kara Goldin show today. I’m thrilled to be joined by the incredible Erica Bethe Levin, who is the founder and CEO of the brilliant product and company called Globowl you’re gonna be so excited to hear a lot more about what she’s doing, but Erica is a three time founder and food industry expert whose journey from marketing and hospitality and tech to launching her own baby food company is is so inspiring, and it’s pioneering an approach to early childhood food exploration, which I think is brilliant, focusing on early allergen introductions with culturally inspired meals I was sharing with her that I was just talking to a new mom about this, and obviously I’ve been very much a proponent to moving away from so much sweet over the years. So this was definitely right up my alley. And by the way, I’m not a baby, obviously, but I tasted the products, and they’re really, really delicious. So really, really nice job. We’re also going to talk, for those of you who might be aware of Gordon Ramsay’s food stars, she’s also been a part of that. So super welcome, Erica. Thank you so much for coming.
Erica Bethe Levin 2:08
Thank you so much for having me, as I, as I’ve mentioned, I’m, I’m inspired by you. So it’s a it’s wonderful to have this conversation together.
Kara Goldin 2:15
Can you start by telling us a bit about Globowl maybe it’s your 32nd elevator pitch about what you’re doing?
Erica Bethe Levin 2:22
Yes, absolutely, I’d be honored to Globowl is internationally inspired food for babies and toddlers. So introducing kids to culture through food from their very first bites, while also introducing them, you know, to big flavors and safe textures to enhance their oral motor development. You know, drinking food isn’t good for you, and yet that seems to be the mass majority, I should say, of the baby food out there and bringing allergens into the mix, because that’s how everybody across the world really eats. They just kind of eat what their parents feed them, and they don’t suffer the same way we do with food allergies. So trying to provide the healthiest option out there, also the introduction to the world and the different cultures within it. We just are really excited about setting kids up also, additionally, for, you know, more open minded thinking and curiosity for the world, and, you know, a sense of adventure. So we’re trying to kind of warm their little tummies in their hearts too. I
Kara Goldin 3:14
love it. So you went from leading Sales and Marketing for top restaurants to founding Globowl. Can you talk a little bit about your journey and what you were doing before you got here? Yeah,
Erica Bethe Levin 3:26
I mean, I guess I’m an accidental entrepreneur. It was not the intention after I graduated, but a few years after college, I was living in Chicago as kind of a single woman in the city and not really knowing how to enjoy and take advantage of this amazing the city that I lived in. And so we created an online publication for women in Chicago, what to do, where to go, and we were able to garner this really amazing audience that we then took offline into these real world events. And that was, I mean, this is really before digital publishing was what it is today. I mean, they were mostly hard papers and hard magazines and all of that. So I did that for about eight years, and then I had the opportunity to launch and run the Chicago market for a VC backed startup. So that was my first time not bootstrapping something. I was one of the first employees of a company called reserve, which was a table management system, so tech and restaurant kind of combined, and that ultimately sold to resi, which sold to American Express. So that was a really interesting experience. And actually, that’s when I had my son was working there, and so I opted, after maternity leave, to start consulting for a bunch of startups. One of those kind of family owned businesses that I was supporting ended up being a part time job than a full time job. And yes, then I ran, I was the Globowl Director of Sales for a hospitality consulting company, but our clients were some of the top restaurants and hotels in the world, and then Globowl, and
Kara Goldin 4:55
then, and then Globowl. Yeah, so you. So this is kind of your first physical goods company. Oh, yeah. And I would imagine even, you know, being in hospitality, maybe you saw you weren’t sort of on the ground creating recipes, but you saw firsthand, you know, this key point around allergens. Obviously, you’re a parent as well. But can you take us to the moment when, maybe the AHA, moment where you said, You know what I should go do this, this is a real idea that I should get out there in the market.
Erica Bethe Levin 5:30
Yeah, I have been on the ground somewhat in restaurants a long time ago, but since then, just I’m just a home cook, but I love cooking, and so I’m always feeding my family and, you know, teaching the kids about different cultures through the way that I was cooking. And anyway, after, as you can imagine, being part of a hospitality consulting company, COVID hits, you lose all your clients everything. You know, all of our restaurants and hotels really shut you know, we didn’t know what the future was going to hold. So although I maintained my job, I did have extra time on my hands. And it was at the same time that my daughter, which is my second, started eating solid foods. And we have a very picky first eater, like our first kid is a horribly picky eater. And I know it’s because I was being as adamant and passionate about flavor as I am. I was very hesitant to give it to him. I was like, Oh no, I think I, you know, just some sweet, pure sweet potatoes or a period of avocado, or whatever it might have been. I didn’t put any spice in, I didn’t do anything, and he’s horribly picky. And so my husband and I also a professional in the hospitality space, we did not want the same for our daughter. We’re like, we’re not making that mistake again. And so we just gave her what we were eating that very first night that she was going to eat, and it was coconut shrimp. And we’re like, I don’t think it’s gonna hurt or, I mean, she’ll be fine, right? And not only was she fine, she loved it. And so we just realized this is interesting during the time where we can’t leave the house, right, like, let alone the country or anywhere else, we can really bring the kid the world to our kids through food, and this introduces them to the texture, the flavor, the spice, you know, the allergens that we really, you know, knew we needed to give to our children to help prevent future food allergies. So that’s kind of, that’s when it was born. I talked to a lot of other parents in the same boat, you know, having kids around this, you know, the same age as, some a little older, some a little younger. And everyone was like, Oh my gosh, yes, I need that. I need that. And then I started doing the research, I mean, the scientific research behind it all, because I’m not a doctor, and I’m not, you know, I wanted to make sure that all these kind of assumptions and hypotheses I had, and I did talk to my pediatrician, of course, so it wasn’t just out of my head, but it was all backed, you know, the USDA recommends an early and often allergen approach, right? And a diverse diet of introducing lots of different foods, the American Academy of Pediatrics, same thing, the National Institute of Health. I mean, it’s everywhere. So I realized that I was on to something at that point, and moved really full steam ahead.
Kara Goldin 7:53
You had this idea. You were seeing it firsthand with your own kids. So how long did it take for this idea to kind of incubate, to let’s go launch this? Yeah, as
Erica Bethe Levin 8:07
as you know, building a product takes so long. I I kind of knew it would. There was so much unknown, but I really didn’t know just how nuanced and complicated it was. Like I knew how to build a financial model, I knew how to raise money. I knew how to do the stuff that most entrepreneurs you know, need to know, and know how to create a product. And so it was a lot of learning, and it took about two plus years to go through. Yeah, I mean, I knew nothing, you know, where do I find jars? And then I found out lids don’t come with jars. You have to find the right, the right lid with the right thread, with the, you know, I mean, it’s like crazy. And so, you know, really leaning into a network of advisors as well. I was, you know, because of having built other companies before, I did have a lot of connections to the space, to CPG, just inherently from being in startups. And so I was able to really build a great community around me of people that really helped with that. But then there’s also, you know, there’s finding a manufacturer. Are you going to manufacture it yourself? Are you going to have someone else do it for you? You know, do you have the money to do it yourself? Also, do you have the money to ask someone do it for you? None of it is easy.
Kara Goldin 9:15
And then
Erica Bethe Levin 9:16
there’s testing, of course, you know, there’s safety and sanitation and regulatory testing. And this is, these are babies, right? I’m a, I’m a mom, and I’m a totally neurotic mom that and so I would never do anything that could ever, you know, ever hurt anybody. So, you know, just making sure that everything’s safe and clean, getting the certifications that are required. So all of this took a long time. We did focus groups, of course, you know, what did the parents want? What flavors? So, yeah, two years to get it off the ground, and we just started selling about a year ago. That’s
Kara Goldin 9:47
awesome. So how many SKUs Did you launch with Ben four?
Erica Bethe Levin 9:52
So I did some, like I said, focus groups, and interviewing of other, you know, parents. We did some farmers markets and street festivals, and did a. Lot of sampling, and ended up with the first four skews, which were Pad Thai for tots, veggie Tikka Masala, ya yas medi bowl, which is, you know, Mediterranean inspired. And then a baby spices bean bowl, which is kind of chilly for children. So we get as the funny thing is, you get those out the door after, you know, developing it for two years, and then people are like, what’s next? Where’s the next one? I’m like, Oh my gosh, let me get these first four out there. So we just launched two new ones. We have a baby Bipin Bop and a mini M, I n, i strongie. And we’re working on kind of different innovations, not just furthering kind of our skew count with these current offerings, but really moving in the direction of growing with the life of the child and offering different kind of alternatives to snacks and things like that too.
Kara Goldin 10:48
Do you have a runaway top seller as part of the skews? Yeah. I
Erica Bethe Levin 10:54
mean, Pad Thai for Tots is wildly popular, and I kind of knew it would be whether it tasted the best or not. I think the name itself is fun. And everyone loves Pad Thai. It’s, you know, it has become quite Americanized. But we work with chefs that specialize in the cuisine from the region that you know the food is from, and we have them authenticated all you know. We really want to make sure that if we are doing the educational component of this business and teaching kids, you know, where it comes from, why it’s important to that culture, where has it grown, that it’s authentic, you know, that we’re doing our job, and so we work with a lot of chefs to make sure not only does it taste good, but that it’s also authentic to that part of the world. You
Kara Goldin 11:35
recently participated in Gordon Ramsay’s food stars. How did that opportunity come about? And can you share a little bit more about that?
Erica Bethe Levin 11:43
Sure I can credit, slash blame my eight year old son, because he is Gordon’s biggest fan. We watch all of all of his shows together. Always have. I know he uses bad words and whatever, but like Charlie, loves it so much. So we watched food Star Season One, and he was thoroughly confused. He was maybe six at the time, as to why I wasn’t on it. I didn’t know this existed and all that. Anyway, he said, Mommy, you’re you’re better. You need to go win this. And so he asked me to apply, which I did not do, because it wasn’t like wasn’t on my bingo card. And so months later, he forgot, I’m sorry I forgot. And he brought it up to me, and he just said, Hey, did Jerry hear back from Gordon as if that’s how it works? It was so cute and innocent, right? And I’m like, Oh, I’m so sorry. And I forgot. He goes, we’re doing it right now. And he did it with me. Took 15 minutes to send in the initial application, and I was quite late. I was past the end of casting, so it was quite accelerated for me. I was on a plane to London within, honestly, a month, maybe five weeks, something like that. So it was, it was very quick,
Kara Goldin 12:51
and how long was the filming? And so, just to not gloss that over, I mean, you have young kids, and you took off to go to London to do the show. I mean, it must have been, you know, I’m sure there was a lot of thought that went into that. Is this really worth it? Here I am trying to, you know, be a mom, launch a company, all these things going on. So you made the decision. How long were you there filming?
Erica Bethe Levin 13:21
I was gone for two months. Wow. So it was a very, yeah, it was a very long time. The thing is, and we had quite a few family meetings about it, you know, with my husband, my mom, my dad, because they lived down the street, and I knew they’d be helping support obviously, you know, it’s a lot for one person to manage two children and work with their, you know, partner gone. So the thing is, though, we didn’t know how long I would be gone, yeah, so you basically were going either for Episode One, which was kind of American Idol style you pitched, and you may or got on the show, you may not, and it was public, right? So you could have been there just for that never get on, or you could be there until the very end. And luckily, I mean, I was, I was there through every single episode. I made it to the very end. So I ended up being there two months. So it was a long, long time to be away from my family. I even incorporated the kids into the decision, because I never want, I never want business to feel like, like, Globowl versus them, right? They’re always first, no matter like, by the way, I mean, no matter what, family will always be. First, my children will, but I have integrated them really, into the business. May I give them a sense of autonomy, you know, with it, and it’s like, what do you think about this? And I know Charlie wanted me to go, because it was this idea, but I have a little girl too, and, and so we had family discussions. And, you know, it everyone wanted me to they there was no reason they could come up with that would prohibit me from going and that just shows what an amazing like support network I do, because it’s, it’s not easy, and I feel very lucky that I was able to do that. I was really I was, I was the only one on the show. I was the only mom. There’s another mom, but she, I mean, she’s got older. Kids, grown kids that live, you know, outside the house, outside the state. So I was the only mom with young kids at home, which was an added sort of pressure on me during the filming that other contestants didn’t have to, you know, deal with. Yeah,
Kara Goldin 15:12
it’s so interesting, as you were talking about that my when hint first started, many years ago, in in 2005 we were, you know, had that initial run. My kids had a hint stand that they were doing, and they ended up all of the money that they made, they gave to the San Francisco Zoo, where we were living. And, you know, they had, they had a whole give back strategy. But they, they were learning a ton, I mean, and, and it was interesting. I mean, I think they were definitely a pull for people, because they were like, Oh, these kids, they’re not selling Kool Aid. They’re actually selling, you know, something different. And, and that’s when I think more and more people, I always tell people that we weren’t just selling a beverage, but we were creating an entirely new category called unsweetened flavored water. I feel like if you aren’t the only one doing it, you’re def there’s very few people who are doing it. How hard has that been to really create or lead a new category that is just so different than what people are used to seeing on the shelf.
Erica Bethe Levin 16:26
Yeah, that’s a great question, and you did that so beautifully. There’s a huge educational component to that. We have to educate the consumer. Unfortunately, you know, the American baby food industry has really been sanitized, you know, down to kind of these mushy, one note, purees in single use plastic pouches. There’s so much wrong with it. The intention was good. You know, there’s no denying that people wanted to create baby food that they felt was healthy. But unfortunately, it was based on bad advice from the American Academy of Pediatrics, saying, you know, don’t give your kids allergens until, you know, three or for something like that. But then they quickly revoked, you know, they went back on that and said, that is not, in fact, the way we should be feeding our children, but, but so many of these brands have already been. They’re predicated on being free of the top 10 allergies. They really can’t innovate in the way that we can. What they can do is try to create international flavors, and some have already done it since we’ve come to market, but they’re still in plastic pouches, right? They’re still, you know, really stifling those oral motor skills, which, by the way, go talk to any pediatric dentist. Their nightmare is pouches because it sits on the baby’s teeth. It causes cavities. They said they’d never seen cavities in kids under one until these pouches came out, you know. And then occupational therapists say it leads to texture aversion, speech delays, things like that. And so we’re kind of just, it’s weird to say that we’re starting this, you know, We’re disrupting a category. I mean, this is the way that we’re feeding babies. Is the way that kids eat all over the world, really, except for here, kids are eating the pad thai, or, you know, the Tikka Masala, like we have in their homes, and they don’t have the same prevalence or incidence of food allergies. They’re not picky eaters, you know? And now we have multiple generations of picky eating kids with food allergies, and we’re trying to reverse all of that. So it’s funny that I now need to educate on something that was the norm 50 years ago, but isn’t anymore, but it’s been very well received, and the fact that we do have the science, you know, and the research and the medicine to really back it up, helps a lot. And there’s been so many, I don’t know if you’ve seen lately, but so many studies that have recently come out on, you know, 60% of baby food in store is not healthy. It’s not marked as, you know, not proper. They’re not using proper claims. It’s, there’s a it’s a mess. And so that also helps, you know, I guess, advocate for the newer brands that are coming in and trying to really disrupt, if, for lack of better words, sorry, I went on and on. So,
Kara Goldin 18:54
no, no, I love that. So I always say that networking is just so so key. And you know, sometimes you have to force yourself out the door to go to something, but you never know who you’re gonna meet. And I think that it is absolutely crucial for founders. You were also different than just networking, but you were part of the Tech Stars Chicago cohort. Also the target take off essentials graduate. All of these groups are, you know, they take time, right? But I think that the value in the end, if nothing else, just to network and talk to other people who have been in in your shoes or can be helpful, is so key. So what would you say about that whole topic in terms of these additional groups that you’ve been a part of? Yeah, absolutely.
Erica Bethe Levin 19:51
I mean, I do a lot of mentoring and some lecturing and things like that, and I always say I feel like networking has kind of a negative connotation. Conversation at this point, but the fact is, call it something else. Call it community building. I don’t care. But the fact is, that is very important. I don’t I would not have gotten this company off the ground without the sense of community and the people that I’ve met, and not just through those two programs, which were instrumental in learning about CPG, but just even over the last 1520, years. You know, it’s like, it’s a long time to be networking or community building, but it’s so important, because people, I really feel at the root, they want to help people that have had success, especially they want to give back to the people that help them get to that point of success. And so, you know, I really do tell everybody, like I said, when I’m mentoring or whatever it might be, go to that event, you won’t regret it. I know you’re going to dread it. You know, we all want to stay in our pajamas or whatever it’s like. You may dread it. You are going to be so happy when you hit the pillow that night that you did that because you made that one conversation happen. Or you you know, you met that one person. It doesn’t even have to be someone who can invest or someone that can you know, further your career, someone you can collaborate with, someone that’s on the same page as you code. You know, peer mentoring, it’s all very important, and so I think it’s instrumental in building a business. And if I, you know, they ask you in these accelerators and things you know all over, what’s your superpower? I honestly believe it mine. It’s talking to people. I mean, I really, really believe that that has gotten me to the point where I’ve gotten today. And I also want to give back, so I’m not just talking to people for my benefit. I love helping other people find a job, or help other people connect to a new industry, whatever it might be. And so that’s kind of, I think, just what makes it go around?
Kara Goldin 21:40
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that, you know, those people are potential customers too, that when you’ve got a small shelf talker inside stores, or they’re not being targeted on Instagram, you’re meeting these people who are relating to you. And it’s sort of the founders advantage. I always tell founders that your story is the thing that really differentiates yourself from the big guys, right in an industry, yeah, and, but you have to often show up and be a part of these things in order to really kind of see the the outcome of that. Yeah. Okay, so customer feedback definitely is just so key. I always, you know, share with people. Obviously, it helps in sort of figuring out, you know, if you’re headed in the right direction. But it’s also, you know, helps, I guess, gives you energy right to know that you’re doing something right the cut. For me, the customer feedback always came when, you know, some like low point and you know, my top employee quit, or some, some, you know, run didn’t happen. And we’re gonna miss a we’re going to miss an order for target, or whatever it is, you know, can you share an example where it kind of shaped you or lifted you, however you want to view it?
Erica Bethe Levin 23:12
I will say, you know, being, being just about a year old in terms of how long we’ve been selling. You know, I spent a long time gearing up to launch right and you talk to people, you think, you know, you know the answer. You think you got the best four SKUs out there. Then you start to sell, and you’re like, I don’t know if this is going the way I want, or what are the people, you know, the people that are buying this? What are they thinking? And so just a few months ago, actually, I was able to go to one of our stores up in New Jersey, and it was my first time being well, it was bye, bye baby, right? So not necessarily a grocery store, but totally targeted consumer, right? Because they had reopened about 11 of their stores that we were in. They’ve since closed them or are planning to, which is unfortunate, but that was the first time I really was engaging with these just hundreds of pregnant women and their partners and people that have just had babies or on their second baby and wanting to do things differently or learn again, and whatever that might be, I came home so invigorated. I literally emailed by my baby. I said, anytime you need me at the store, I’m coming. That was the most edifying experience I had had in this whole journey, really, of just really being able to talk to the customer, um, potential customers, right, like, because they’re pregnant, right? Kind of, maybe they’ll buy it. Maybe they won’t down the line. And then people that were, you know, purchasing at the store level, you know, at the store that day. And it was just, it was really inspiring. It was really exciting. I, you know, I went to a food allergy summit just two weeks ago, and I would also say that was the second most, not even second most, but the top two experiences when it came to talking to consumers and then talking to people that have been so deeply affected by food allergies, you know, and having them come and say, Thank you for what you’re doing. I wish it was around when. My children were just starting to eat, and I wouldn’t be in this I wouldn’t be at this conference today, right? I wouldn’t be at this food allergy summit on how to live with food allergies and how you know to to administer it at be pen if this had been around, right? And so those kinds of experiences where you’re truly talking to the customers is that there’s no research that you could do that’s better than that. Plus, you know, once they get to know you too, and you build, you build genuine relationships, not not fake ones, but genuine relationships. You know, I give out my card, I say, ask me any questions. Please stay in touch like you. Build a rapport in a relationship and they want to buy. You know, they want to buy because like, that person cares, or, you know, I met that person, and they they really love what they do, and they’re really trying to help. It’s, you know, it’s inspirational for them to buy a brand, versus, like you said, a major big guy who they don’t know the story, you know this, like you said, the founder story is so important. And it’s, it’s, I think it’s part of the, one of the things that you get in a startup that’s positive is still being able to really relate to the business, still being such a deep part of it, and being able to share that definitely.
Kara Goldin 26:09
So where do you see Globowl in the next five years? Like, what’s your hope for the brand and and I guess, you know, sort of that parlays into what is success for you?
Erica Bethe Levin 26:25
Yeah, it’s a great question. I mean, this, like I said, this is my third but this is the company I truly believe I was meant to build, like I think everything else was practiced for this. And so to me, you know, I want my family to be happy, you know. I want to be able to spend five years growing this and building this and working as hard as I do now for the next five years, while also still being a very strong presence in my family, like I don’t want to be gone all the time. I want to continue incorporating my kids into the company and really having this be part of our family, you know. And hopefully I can stay not only committed to that, but that it works, right, that that balance works. But, you know, I want to be in the home of every American family, you know. I really believe that this can change the world. I know. I’m not trying to sound naive. I’m actually not. And at some, you know, as optimistic as that sounds, I’m a total realist. I understand the state of the world. I understand, you know, what’s going on. But like, can we change the world through baby food? Like, not only can we set kids up for healthier bodies, right, and healthier eating habits and less food allergies or texture versions, but if we can introduce the littlest people amongst us to the fact that there’s a whole world of different people out there, different cultures out there, different food out there, like we can, we really can set up the next generation for more tolerance and open mindedness. I know it because it’s a taught thing to not be those things, right? So the earlier you educate and they understand, you know, the earlier you have these like new little Globowl citizens, citizens going out there and hopefully really impacting and changing the world and unifying it away unifying it in a way that hasn’t happened in a long time. I mean, food is truly a universal unifier. And if they know, you know, there’s a kid on the other side of the world eating the exact same food as they are. I mean, how cool is that? You know, they, yeah, they may have different cultures. They have they may have different religions. Who cares food really is, You’re all eating the same thing, you know, we’re all the same. And so I know that does sound dreamy, but I really believe it, at least it’s a small part in getting there.
Kara Goldin 28:37
I love that. So So, Erica, it’s been such a pleasure having you on, and thanks for sharing the journey. And you are such an inspiration and badass, for sure. And the vision behind Globowl is is just really, really terrific. And to our listeners, definitely check out the show notes. We’ll have all the information about Erica and also Globowl in there. And thank you so much for listening and and again, for Erica, for you taking the time to come on and talk a little bit more about this too.
Erica Bethe Levin 29:15
No, thank you. I mean hearing those things from you mean so much. I really appreciate it from from one female founder to another, I just I really respect you and appreciate you having
Kara Goldin 29:24
me. Thank you so much.
Erica Bethe Levin 29:25
Thank you.
Kara Goldin 29:26
Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit and of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms. At Kara Goldin, I would love to hear from you too. So feel free to DM me, and if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal, best selling book. Undaunted. Where I share more about my journey, including founding and building hint we are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks for listening, and goodbye for now. You.