Amy Gordinier: Founder & Formulator of Skinfix

Episode 635

In this episode of The Kara Goldin Show, we’re joined by Amy Gordinier, the visionary Founder and Formulator of Skinfix. Amy shares how she discovered a heritage healing balm that inspired her to create a groundbreaking skincare brand focused on skin barrier health. Since launching in 2014, Skinfix has pioneered the clean clinical skincare category, earning accolades as one of the highest re-purchase rate brands at Sephora.
Amy dives into the challenges of building and scaling a business in the competitive beauty space, why skin barrier health is at the heart of everything Skinfix does, and how her partnerships with dermatologists have shaped the brand’s product offerings. She also opens up about her personal journey, the lessons she’s learned as a female entrepreneur, and the moments that made it all worthwhile.
If you’re interested in the future of skincare, entrepreneurship, or learning how to turn a passion into a thriving business, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in now on The Kara Goldin Show!

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Transcript

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. I want to be you. Just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked out, knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control. Control. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs and really, some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Kara Goldin show. Super, super thrilled to have our next guest. Here. We have Amy Gordinier who is the visionary founder and chairwoman of an incredible brand called Skinfix. And if you are not familiar with Skinfix, you’re going to be very, very excited to hear all about the backstory behind this pioneering brand that pioneered the clean, clinical skin care category, bringing a laser focus on skin barrier health to the forefront of the beauty industry. So after discovering a powerful healing balm rooted in a heritage formula passed down through generations. Amy launched Skinfix and 2014 maybe a tiny bit earlier in sort of the research, but let’s go with at least 10 years ago, and she hasn’t looked back since then. So the brand is on fire, and I can’t wait to dive into her journey, her philosophy on building the differentiated brand, and what’s next for Skinfix. So welcome Amy. So nice to meet you.

Amy Gordinier 1:58
Thank you, Kara, it’s such an honor to be on your podcast. Thank you for having me.

Kara Goldin 2:03
Thank you so much. So okay, simple question, what is Skinfix for those who are not familiar with the brand, and how would you describe its mission in a few sentences?

Amy Gordinier 2:18
We are a skincare brand that is focused on the health and wellness of the skin. So we focus on skin barrier health as sort of the root cause to every skin concern, from acne to eczema to rosacea to aging. So we treat skin at its source. We try to bring your skin back to a state of health, and we also have therapeutic products that target specific skin concerns. So we’re, I like to say we’re the functional wellness brand in skincare. We’re kind of a functional medical brand. We’re DERM developed, but we also take a functional approach to overall wellness of the skin.

Kara Goldin 2:59
So what drew you to the original healing balm formula that you launched with, and what made you realize it could become the foundation for the entire skin care brand?

Amy Gordinier 3:11
Yeah, good question. I had worked in beauty my whole career, so I started with L’Oreal in New York, and then Cody, and then I moved to London and worked with Joe Malone, and I’d worked with Joe actually on launching skincare, because she’s an esthetician by training, and we opened esthetics boutiques in the back of her stores. Skincare is really my passion. I moved to Nova Scotia in 21 years ago on december 24 and worked in the sort of supplement space for a few years, and then was introduced to a woman that had this incredible healing balm that our great great grandfather had compounded in Yorkshire, England in the 1870s he was a pharmacist. They moved to Nova Scotia and continued to sell it privately. And what I loved about it was, first and foremost, it was loaded with actives. So coming from the beauty industry, I was used to sort of, we sprinkle a marketing ingredient, and we make a big story about it. This was had four FDA monographed active ingredients in it at their active level. So I’d never seen anything like that. And over the decades, the family had been making it they collected letters from customers that had serious skin concerns. So diabetic foot ulcers, lichen sclerosus, which is a very tricky form of dermatitis, psoriasis, eczema, they had tried everything, and this balm from 1870 had cleared up their skin, calmed the inflammation, soothed the itch, and given them back, in many cases, their quality of life, their sleep. Skin concerns can really impact our mental health. So I loved the idea, and it was a clean product. It was created in 1870 before a lot of the synthetics existed. And so I loved the fact that it was a healthy, clean product that actually was incredibly clinically, or at least anecdotally, at that point, effective. Yeah. So

Kara Goldin 5:00
when we’re talking about the skin barrier, for people who are not, you know, as familiar with that term, obviously, most people probably could say, okay, skin barrier, and they get it. But why is it so important to really get that right? That that barrier?

Amy Gordinier 5:17
Yeah, it’s the outermost layer of our largest organ and the health of the skin barrier has been linked to actually the health of our of our other organs internally as well. So it’s really important that the skin is functioning well for many aspects of our health and wellness. You know, it forms a barrier keeping pathogens and viruses out of our body. It also helps to keep hydration and goodness in in the body, so that the skin itself can function well and all of the other organs can function. It signals to our brain. If you think about touching something hot, you know, on the surface of the skin barrier, it’s signaling to the brain that that’s hot, it’s it’s communicating with a lot of the other organs in the body. So I don’t know that we actually have prioritized the health of the skin as much as we should have, and I’m excited to be one of the pioneering brands and really focusing on skin barrier health as an overall wellness element. Of course, it helps when you have a healthy barrier, you have fewer wrinkles and less age spots, and your skin is bouncier and more elastic and more glowing, and all of those wonderful things that we love as beauty customers, but it’s also really important to our overall health and wellness. There’s actually a study with babies whose skin is very porous when they’re born that showed if they were moisturized daily for the first six months of their lives, they had a 50% less incidence of asthma and food allergies. So it’s just so important that we’re keeping that barrier healthy and making sure that things are staying out of our bodies.

Kara Goldin 6:58
So interesting. So you worked prior to Skinfix. You worked for some incredible brands, L’Oreal Joe Malone, you mentioned a few of them. How did those experiences shape your vision for actually founding a company you worked for other founders or worked for companies that were, you know, large companies, big in the space, but how did those really kind of number one help you, help shape what you were going to do in building this brand? But then also, how did you have the courage to go and do it? Because a lot of people are sitting inside of large companies and incredible brands, and they have ideas, but they’re like, Oh, I could never do this. I mean, how did, how did you actually say maybe I could?

Amy Gordinier 7:50
Yeah. I mean, I think the L’Oreal experience in particular really taught me the nuts and bolts of business and gave me the confidence to understand how to make a product, how to present it, how to position it, how to market it, how to sell it into a retailer. That I think was incredibly helpful, because I understood and that wasn’t sort of a huge learning curve. But my experience with Joe Malone, because I was very lucky to come into the business when Lauder had just bought the company, was within the first year they were still in their earn out. Joe was very much involved in the in the brand, and her husband was the GM. And I worked directly for them, and I got quite close with them, and so I got to see firsthand what it was like, least on the other side of an acquisition, which is still pretty challenging in the life of a company. And I heard all the stories of the founding because there were still a lot of the original team members in the company that who I got to work alongside. So I got to kind of hear it firsthand and see it firsthand, I think, in a lot of ways, that intimidated me and also helped me understand what I was getting into. That it was not going to be easy, but Joe actually was one person that came to me and said, you know, Amy, I think you will have your own company someday. I think you understand how hard it is. I think you understand what it’s about. I think you have the right sort of mindset and demeanor to do your own thing. And that stuck with me. And then, unlike folks that are in comfortable, well paying jobs in big companies, I moved to Nova Scotia, where there weren’t a lot of job opportunities. So that also helped, because it was like, Well, you know, you make your own way, right? You make your own future. So I didn’t really have a lot to lose at that stage. Obviously, any money I was investing in the business, for sure, but there wasn’t a whole lot of of alternatives for me. So starting a company was a good option for me at the time, from from Nova Scotia.

Kara Goldin 9:52
And you mentioned that you went, when you moved up to Nova Scotia, you were in the supplement space, and then you came. Back to the beauty industry, which is also super intriguing, I’m sure, for many people who think, you know, I can only do this in this industry, and you actually shifted into a different industry, and then came back. How was that experience, and how, what was sort of the thinking behind Okay, now I’m going to go back to beauty.

Amy Gordinier 10:21
Yeah. I mean, there is, there was no beauty industry at NOVA in Nova Scotia at the time. Now, there are two brands myself and the seven virtues, or exclusive brands at Sephora, based here, which is kind of fun, but at the time, there weren’t a lot of jobs for marketers at all in Nova Scotia. And I, there was a company and ingredients supplier named ocean nutrition Canada that sold was the world’s largest supplier of fish oil omega threes to the supplement industry. So pretty much any Omega three supplement you take is probably an ocean nutrition product, and they eventually were bought by DSM, but it, for me, was the closest thing to a beauty. It was an ingredient vendor, so it’s not a consumer product, which was very different. But I loved health and wellness. I loved the company. I loved what they were doing, based here in Nova Scotia, that they were building this global behemoth in the in the Omega three space, just you know, across the water in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. So it was the closest sort of job to to what I had been doing in beauty. And I got to learn a lot about regulatory with respect to ingestibles and what we were able to say as we were trying to sell it in to to brands who were launching supplements. And I learned about regulations in different countries, because I was sort of in charge of regulatory for all regions of the world. And, yeah, I just, it was a good experience. It just kind of bolted on something new and different. I learned a little bit about B to B selling too, because I hadn’t done as much of that in marketing and beauty, and we were doing a lot of B to B selling so and I worked in the food ingredient division, which was really interesting, because we were we had a powdered Omega three supplement that we were selling into consumer food brands. So milk brands, yogurt brands, a private label grocery chain, did a whole line of 55 SKUs with us. So I would get intimate with our product development teams and make sure that the that the you know, ingredient was stable and that it was at the right levels, and that we could make certain claims. So I’m still sort of touching a consumer facing, um world at the same time as working in an ingredient vendor. So it was, it was really cool, very

Kara Goldin 12:40
cool. So Skinfix has an exclusive partnership with Sephora. How did that all come about?

Amy Gordinier 12:48
We actually originally launched with Shoppers Drug Mart in Canada. The original founder of Skinfix had actually already launched with Shoppers Drug Mart, so we kind of continued that relationship, and then we launched in full distribution with target out of the gate in 2014 and actually 2015 for target, 2014 for shop, for stroke Mart, and we were the first clean natural brand that was put into the conventional planogram. So they had sort of a natural section where you could buy all the natural beauty products. But they decided, because we were so connected to derms, we were DERM developed, Durham approved, and so clinical, we’ve been doing clinical studies on our formulas from the get go that they put us in the planogram next to Sarah Bay Avino and Latin with the same turns expectations as well. So it was, it was interesting and challenging was prior to influencers. So we didn’t really have these sort of very efficient, very inexpensive levers. We had to sort of pull all the traditional marketing levers that you would at mass but we did extremely well out of the gate with them. Continued to scale nicely as the first ever clean brand to go into the conventional planogram, but as Sephora was developing their clean and sort of clinical positioning with brands like drunk elephant, I actually went to Women’s Wear Daily summit where I spoke and I presented on skim fix, and two of the senior merchants at Sephora came up to me and said, You should come talk to us. So we just saw an opportunity, really, to move into an environment where there was more of an assisted sale, where you had beauty advisors that could really help tell this very robust story about being clean. And Durham recommended Sephora really saw an incremental opportunity to bring barrier health, for the first time into the prestige space. And they thought there was, you know, a very interesting opportunity for therapeutics so and we saw an opportunity to partner with them in scale faster and more profitably, because they do have an incredibly engaged, massive customer base that hangs on their every launch, and they do a phenomenal job of partnering partnering with indie brand. To help scale you quickly. So we moved into Sephora five years in. We sort of did Skinfix, 2.0 repackaged, and moved into Sephora in 2019, so it’s been an incredible partnership. We’re really happy we did, and I think we scaled a lot faster than we might have done if we’d stayed at mass at the time.

Kara Goldin 15:20
So did you totally go out of mass then so you didn’t want a totally different brand you? Wow, that’s really unusual.

Amy Gordinier 15:28
Take every piece out of mass and pay the return. And so our investors were incredibly patient and big believers in the potential of this business, and helped us exit repackage. We worked with a branding agency to kind of iterate, skim, fix 2.0 and then relaunched, you know, same brand new, new look and feel, new retailer. So it was a big endeavor. You

Kara Goldin 15:57
I know you mentioned seven virtues. She was on our show, and she was talking about the program that she was a part of with Sephora, the Excel. Yeah, you weren’t part of that program, though, right? No,

Amy Gordinier 16:13
no, but Barb is one of my best friends here in Nova Scotia, and actually, my my daughter, works for the seven virtues perfume atelier. When you come to Nova Scotia, you have to go to the perfume atelier. It’s amazing. You make your own perfume. Yeah,

Kara Goldin 16:27
I’ve seen the pictures. It looks amazing. So that’s it’s that’s terrific. Really cool. Yeah, very, very, very cool. So I was going to ask you a decision. Maybe there’s another decision that you made, but it sounds like that was a pretty critical one for for your success. But if there’s any decision, as you think about that really was, you know, kind of on the timeline as as absolutely critical in the Skinfix, growth and trajectory. What would that be? What would that decision be? If it wasn’t this one? Were there any others? Yeah,

Amy Gordinier 17:09
I think in terms of growth, Sephora was the big decision. But I think in terms of really establishing a brand for the long haul, which in skin care and beauty is so hard to do, it’s so trend driven. It’s a fickle. Think someone at Sephora called their client grasshopper the other day. You know, they just, they do jump around. I think our decision to work with dermatologists from the get go, when I bought the formula, the first thing I did was take it to a German in Toronto and say, What do you think? She said, I love the formula, that I need some clinical data to recommend it. We started doing our first clinical with with her in our office. And then every formula that we’ve created, we’ve clinically tested quite rigorously with quantitative metrics. We’ve got a Scientific Advisory Board of dermatologists. We go to DERM conferences. We’ve peer reviewed published studies. I think that investment early days maybe didn’t necessarily make sense for a brand our size. And yet, one of our investors, who actually was the owner of ocean nutrition, really, really, really believed that over the long haul, that was going to be a key differentiator for us to truly be clinical and to truly be DERM recommended, and we now have a decade long relationship with the dermatology community in North America, very well respected, one of the probably few clean brands respected by the dermatologist community, and certainly one of the few, if only, Sephora brands. So that has now, I think, positioned us incredibly well in terms of our ability to show that we are a an authentic DERM developed clinical skincare brand, which is really important to strategic investors, you know, they want to eventually buy brands that are going to last the duration. And if you look at a brand like Sarah Vay, there are a lot of, I think, analogies to Skinfix, but were sort of the prestige Sephora version. And I, I think those were really good decisions early days that didn’t necessarily make sense from an investment perspective at the time, but I think our investors advice was really good. Yeah,

Kara Goldin 19:20
that’s very, very smart. So when you think about well, first of all skew mix, so you launched with how many skews and how different is that today? Oh,

Amy Gordinier 19:31
wow, yeah. At Target, we had three skews. So we had the targeted balm, which was sort of to treat acute eggs and the flower, so it was sort of a hydro cortisone alternative. We launched with a hand cream and a body cream, so three SKUs that target out of the gate at Sephora. By the time we entered Sephora, we had 22 SKUs, and we had a whole facial skincare line for barrier health, which we had been selling in Durham offices. So yeah, it was interesting. There’s two other brands that went from. Us into Sephora very successfully. One is lineage that was at Target first, and the other is the ordinary which was in drugstores before launching in Sephora. So there was a, there was a sort of an example of how that could be done. But I think Sephora was very smart when we arrived, because they’re like, Okay, you’re arriving on the scene with 22 SKUs. So some people may know you from us and recognize you, but lots of new people have never heard of you before, and you’re not launching in the traditional way with one or two SKUs in the in the on the wall, in the sort of new product discovery area. So they said to us, no new products for at least two years. Build your hero. And it was such smart advice. We leaned into our triple lipid peptide moisturizer because it’s the largest category of skincare. Facial moisturizers are highly competitive, and that was where, if we could win there, we could really anchor the brand. And we built the number three moisturizer at Sephora, number one, it’s for Canada, within those two years, just really focusing on that as sort of the product that we use to tell our story. So, yeah, it was a really interesting way to launch into into Sephora. And they, they knew how to guide us. That’s

Kara Goldin 21:14
incredible. So did you? Was 22 were you just when you heard that number? Where you like? I mean, where do I start? Oh, did they help you actually say we need something for eyes, we need something. And did they really help you think about that, or how, what was sort of the guidance that they gave you? Yeah,

Amy Gordinier 21:32
they launched pretty much the entire portfolio online, and then we chose, when we went into stores, I think three months later, we picked they they chose five SKUs to bring into stores, but we collaborated based on what we thought would would be the heroes that we could build in the brand. And they gave us a lot of good advice, a lot of good guidance, a lot of input on how to position. We did a lot of AB testing of ads to see what was going to resonate in terms of how we were positioning this moisturizer. The facial skincare line was called barrier plus. And at that point, five years ago, in prestige, no one had heard of the skin barrier. It’s now the hottest sort of category of skincare and makeup, and God knows, even fragrance talks about skin barrier. So we were really the first, and we were bringing this very new concept. So we did a lot of work on what was going to resonate, and they worked closely with us on that. They were, they were, they obviously have a tremendous amount of knowledge, and they’re phenomenal merchants. So they, they helped a lot in guiding how we how we built up the brand.

Kara Goldin 22:42
So it’s one thing to have an incredible product as you have, but packaging. How important is packaging for this consumer?

Amy Gordinier 22:51
So important and we have a few challenges because we have a lot of active so, you know, I really followed the ethos of the original formulator, trauma sticks and with his four FDA approved actives, I’m constantly told by my investors and my team that I over formulate. You know, they’re like, Okay, Amy, we know you want functional ingredients at a functional level. We can only talk about three. Why do you have 11? Because I want the product to work, and that’s why we have the highest repurchase rate and highest loyalty rate of any brand at Sephora, which is tough to do, but we also need to manufacture in a lot of airless componentry, because we just have a lot of actives that need to stay fresh and need to stay free of air flow. So that’s expensive. And then on top of it, we are planet positive, so we’re clean and planet positive. We’re one of only 12 brands in the entire Sephora world that is planet positive. So there’s a lot of restrictions on the use of PCR resins, the use of recycled aluminums this, you know, we can’t use double walled components. We can’t use a matte finish. There’s lots of things that we have to consider. We can’t use single use componentry. We have to have refills for everything, or most things and so and we’re very proud to do and happy to do it, but that also restricts us. So it’s a challenge, because we see these beautiful packages sometimes at retail that are really cool and that we see the client gravitating to, but we can’t use it because it’s not planet aware. And so it’s always a challenge. It’s like, okay, first we have to preserve the formula, and then we also would like to be as sustainable as possible. So packaging is huge. Yeah,

Kara Goldin 24:34
no, definitely. So social media, obviously, is especially for beauty and influencers and all of those, those terms that if you’re running any type of brand, you have to engage and be aware of those. How have you seen. Seen social media grow, or how has that really helped your brand to grow and also educate the consumer? Because I think it’s not just about showing up and looking pretty, but you have a product that is actually, you know, helping people to change their skin and truly change their skin. So how have you really seen that be a great platform for and which platform, I should say, has really been a great platform for you to be able to get the word out about Skinfix as well.

Amy Gordinier 25:35
Yeah, I mean the rise of the skin influencer, I would say, pre COVID People like Hiram Yaro was incredibly helpful for us, because he was doing deep dives into ingredients and really starting to educate whereas prior to that, it had been a lot of makeup influencers and a lot of kind of content that was not robust enough. We were having a hard time really getting figuring out our influencer strategy early days because we were so clinical, and then Hiram arrived, and he fell in love with our brand, and then COVID hit, and all of the dermatologists who were usually seeing patients all day started doing content online, and that, combined with the launch of Tiktok, or the rise of Tiktok, really was a game changer for us, because we were known in the dermatology world, we were respected, we had credibility, and we had products that were actually incredibly helpful to people during COVID who were getting sensitized and having all sorts of stress responses as well. So that was a game changer for us. You know, the dermatologists taking to social media was a game changer, because there were initially very few brands that they felt comfortable talking about. We were one of them, and so we just absolutely exploded off, off of the back of that. And people were really craving that content from experts that, you know, real medical information. It was just kind of perfect place, perfect time, and that has continued to be a big driver for us, is just having experts be able to talk to our products and help us explain the story and differentiate from this sea of skincare out there. So I think that was an incredibly lucky pivot. Tiktok continues to be an incredibly important platform for for Sephora and the Sephora client in Instagram as well. But really, Tiktok, and I would say even YouTube, to some degree, longer form content

Kara Goldin 27:34
that’s that’s great, yeah, we, I was talking to another brand a couple of months ago, and an older brand that that was saying that Tiktok shop has just totally and totally taken off for them, but in some ways screwed up their demographic of who they thought their consumer was, because it’s gotten so much younger with Tiktok, but with seaweed and some of the ingredients that they had always used in their product. And, yeah, it was really, really fascinating to hear that, that it’s, you know, there’s, there’s an audience there that’s listening. They’re a lot younger, and they’re like, oh my gosh, like, I love seaweed, and I should try this product, and so it’s, it’s really, really fascinating.

Amy Gordinier 28:24
That’s incredible. It gives, yeah, drives new life.

Kara Goldin 28:28
Yeah, exactly. Well, I would imagine too. I mean, I, as I was saying, I have two boys and two girls, and I have noticed, with my sons, they don’t walk into Sephora, but they’ll be on Snapchat, and they’ll be on Tiktok, and if there’s something that they know is going to help their skin, they’ll purchase it. And yet, you know, they’ll know that it’s possibly in Target or Sephora or whatever, but they don’t go there. And so they’re, they’re going to, they’re more likely to go and buy it, especially if it’s going to be helpful to their skin anyway. So I think it’s really fascinating what these different marketplaces can do, whether it’s Instagram or Facebook or or Tiktok, because it’s it just seems to make a lot of sense. Yeah,

Amy Gordinier 29:18
yeah. I mean, I am a victim of it as well. So easy to just hit purchase, and next thing you know, it arrives at your door. And no, definitely.

Kara Goldin 29:30
So last question, going back to the very beginning, I’m sure there were moments when you thought, you know, this is, this is going to be really fantastic, but it’s really scary. And now that you know you’re you didn’t have a crystal ball back then, but now that you know what you know, what would you tell yourself in the earlier days? Would you have gone faster? Would you have not strong? Asked about it, would you have, you know, what? What are those things that you would have said to yourself, I wish I would have

Amy Gordinier 30:09
so many things, so many things. Kara, but in our case, when we launched at Mass, you know, that’s where I think sometimes a corporate beauty background can be a negative aspect, because I had in my mind, you know, I’d worked for L’Oreal mass brands, and I had in my mind, we have to spend X millions to, you know, get this brand moving. And my, one of my investors, is very much a like, Let’s build a billion dollar brand. So we just spent way too much money out of the gate. Was a very different time prior to influencers, and I see these businesses now that are self funded, scaling in three to five years and again, completely different ecosystem, completely different marketing levers to pull from. But I would definitely have gone slower. We had a PE fund say to us, do not do a national launch at Target. You can’t possibly support that, do a regional launch and then go from there. And we didn’t listen. We’re like, we’re being offered 1800 doors, you know, it’s like a multi million dollar pipeline order. We didn’t know. But I think I definitely would say, you know, my daughter’s interested in starting a business, and she’s absolutely convinced she does not want to take any investors. She wants to do it on her own. I mean, that’s, I think, difficult. At some point you do need some investment, most likely, but slow and steady, build a profitable business, make sure you have a really differentiated product. And don’t be afraid to move more slowly. You know, because especially when you’re building something like we were building that was very clinical and has really here for the long game. It’s not a trend play. I wish we had moved a lot slower and spent a lot less money in the first five years at Mass hindsight, 2030,

Kara Goldin 31:57
such great insights and advice. So Amy Gordon, near founder and chairwoman of Skinfix, thank you so much for joining us here today, and we’ll have all the info in the show notes as well, but good luck with everything. Everyone needs to go and purchase Skinfix, and I love it, and you’ve done such an incredible job. So congratulations.

Amy Gordinier 32:22
Thank you, Kara. I appreciate that. I appreciate that this is great Absolutely.

Kara Goldin 32:25
And thank you again everyone for listening. Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit. And of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms. At Kara Goldin, I would love to hear from you too. So feel free to DM me, and if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal, best selling book undaunted, where I share more about my journey, including founding and building hint, we are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks for listening, and goodbye for now. You.

 

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