Marshall Mosher – Founder & CEO of Vestigo

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be, I want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Kara golden show, though, join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone, its Kara golden from the Kara golden show, I am really, really excited to have our next guest here we have Marshall Mosher, here, who is the founder and CEO of Vesta go. And you may or may not know what best to go is, but we’re going to tell you and we’re going to share a lot of insights. And we are so lucky to have Marshall here with us. I just learned that he’s doing TED talk this weekend. And it’s very exciting to have him share a little bit about what that process is like probably but also just on everything that he’s learned about leadership and of course a little bit more about best to go in his journey. But fast to go is a company that builds Virtual Reality adventure experiences that take corporate leadership training to the next level. And think of it as digitized ropes courses that help strengthen teams by taking them through VR adventure. Challenges like crossing crevasse at the base of Everest, we’ve had a few Everest climbers on this podcast, it’s been fun to, to kind of think of a safer way maybe to to an easier way less time consuming way to get there. I loved reading that Marshall was inspired to create vest to go and incorporate his three main net interests, adventure technology and entrepreneurship into company that he loves getting up and working on every single day. And he’s worked with some of the largest brands, and coolest brands out there, including one of my former companies that I worked with in the early days CNN and Microsoft Home Depot, Mercedes Benz Chick fil A, he’s also the host of the podcast inside the adventure. So we cannot wait to dig in to hear a little bit more about what Marshall is up to in the world of VR and entrepreneurship. So welcome Marshall. Thanks, Kara. It’s

Marshall Mosher 2:46
great to be here.

Kara Goldin 2:47
Super great to have you. So take me back to the beginning. Where did this sense of adventure come from? Who was martial as a young kid I always like to ask that just to get a little bit of kind of background and and maybe a little feel for where you always this like crazy adventure and and tell me a little bit more about Marshall.

Marshall Mosher 3:12
Yeah, I think so. So I grew up here in Atlanta, which is where I’m based right now as an only child. And I think you know, growing up as an only child with I’m sure other only children would relate to this, we got to find a way to entertain ourselves somehow we don’t have a little you know, brother to pick out or something. So I had this I was kind of in like, you know, Metro suburbia in Atlanta and I had this drainage pipe thing in my backyard that would go under the road into this like, you know wooded area of this golf course community is just a drainage pipe in the woods. And I would imagine this pipe is like this tunnel to another dimension. And I would always like want to go hike through it and go on adventures. And of course, I’d scare my parents from the idea of like some flash flood, you know, drowning me this tunnel. It’s something but yeah, I was always running or somebody trees and yeah, I mean, I didn’t know what adventure was, but always running off to do something like that, for sure.

Kara Goldin 4:01
That’s wild. And so fast forward a few years. So I read that 2015 You received a full scholarship from Google. Can you tell us a little bit more about where that took you?

Marshall Mosher 4:17
Yeah, totally. Well, I eventually, you know, went to the University of Georgia for school. And at the time, I thought I wanted to go to med school. So I was pre med. But the more I started shadowing doctors going in seeing how hospitals work, the more I realized that I didn’t really love medicine, itself, but really loved the combination of adventure sports, which I found while I was in college, and instead of just running into, you know, little adventures in my backyard, finding your real action sports as a way to turn those adventures into real life and I was also studying public health with my pre med interests, and I started to learn how A lot of action sports and sports in general are really powerful tools to help people have better health outcomes. from a lifestyle perspective, just staying more active and healthy. Of course, your health is really focused on two things diet and activity, I was really interested in the activity piece, and how that was sustainable. And not just, you know, spring break, I want to go to the gym and get fit to look good at the beach. But how we can do things that we love is passions that keep us more active and healthy. from a health standpoint, and what I was learning in all my public health classes, was really shedding light on how important that is, especially here in the US. So I eventually translated that passion for medicine, into helping people to live a more active and healthy lifestyle. And at the time, I was really interested in what what technology was enabling and the sharing economy, kind of like you know, the Uber and Airbnb concepts out there, platform that connects the supply and the demand together. And I really wanted to do that for adventure sports as a way to encourage more people to learn how to get into rock climbing, or whitewater kayaking, or mountain biking, the obvious things that generally have pretty high barriers of entry, but if you find the right person who can teach you really isn’t that hard. So we came up with this idea in an entrepreneurship class at UGA, actually, as my last semester. That would be a tech economy or tech sharing economy platform that connects local guides that had the the gear and the knowledge to be able to take people on these experiences with people who want to learn them and take that first step for the first time. And that was the concept that we applied to Singularity University with which was in partnership with Google at the time and got a, you know, full ride to this program at the time was called GSP, the Global Solutions Program, global startup program, and got a chance to learn from some of the best minds in Silicon Valley for 10 weeks on how to combine this passion for impact and technology and entrepreneurship. And it was definitely one of the most transformative, impactful programs that I’ve ever been through for sure.

Kara Goldin 7:11
I love that, you know, it’s, it’s interesting, I was speaking at a small event in Silicon Valley the other day, and everybody from it was actually a legal conference that had asked me to come and keynote this conference. And, and the audience makeup was a lot of engineers, a lot of people who were working in tech not working in beverages, which is, is, as you and I talked about my day job. And you know, it’s fascinating, because I heard from so many of those people that were sitting in the audience that just hearing about other people’s stories helps them to think about what could be. And I think it’s fascinating to hear about your experience with singularity, because I think that that is very much a when I think about describing Silicon Valley to people. There’s just this mindset here that it just, there’s this acceptance of, kind of, you know, you do what you do during the day, but I think everybody wants to think a little bit outside of the box. How do we look at the future? How do we look at what could possibly be? So I love to hear that. You had such a great experience there, because I’ve heard this over and over again. And I really think it speaks to Silicon Valley and kind of what, what they do here, and in many ways, and as many of you know that I’m based, not traditionally in Silicon Valley, but just at north a little bit in Marin County. So close enough, but But I bear better. Yeah, I love, love the mindset. So let’s talk about your company best to go. So what made you start fast to go that?

Marshall Mosher 8:55
Yeah, so at the time, when we were going through singularity was more focused on the consumer in terms of how we’d help individuals to find those experiences to get into a new hobby that would inherently promote greater, you know, personal well being through these inherently active activities. But the more we got into it, the more we realized that there was actually a really big opportunity. On the b2b side, of course, I think a lot of first time founders focused on b2c, you know, consumer focused companies, because we’re consumers as individuals and the problems we have, we tend to think about more than the problems that businesses have. But the more I learned at Singularity, I actually found a technology that had heard of but didn’t really have any first hand experience with which is virtual reality. So we got a chance to learn from, you know, one of the best VR experts at the Stanford VR lab and get introduced to what this technology could do eventually. And then we were also learning about what the future of work might look like in terms of this was of course pre pandemic pre COVID. But learning about how the future of work would be very much focused on digital connections. She knows zoom didn’t really exist at the time, but through video conferencing, and remotely connecting employees and teams instead of all being together in the same office. So I really love the concept of using these really powerful experiences these actions for experiences not just for personal transformation and growth, but for Team transformation and growth and using virtual reality as another means of connecting teams. So the more we went down that route, of course, we had to wait for the technology to get a little bit better on the VR side. But when it finally became usable, we started creating virtual reality adventure challenges as an opportunity to not just practice, you know, the physical fitness muscle, but also the mental muscle of getting outside of our comfort zone, challenging our limits. And the the magic that would happen as a team when you do that as a group of individuals who work together at a company. So we would recreate these real life adventure environments, like you mentioned, you know, base camp at Mount Everest, and the Khumbu Icefall the first step in climbing Mount Everest, and we’d recreate the challenge of crossing these crosses in the Khumbu Icefall, which is just walking cross a ladder that spans from one side of this big crack in the ice to the other. But Virtual Reality replicates that terrifying feeling of fear of heights that we would experience when we would actually be out there doing it in real life. And that fear and overcoming that fear together with your team creates a lot of really powerful opportunities for one relationship building and trust building, but also various themes and leadership development that we can teach for teams that are completely remote, they might not actually be physically together, virtual reality is the tool that can bridge that geographic gap. So the more we started going down that route, the more we really focused on virtual reality, especially when the pandemic hit course, we had real life in person adventure experiences, and virtual experiences, just whether a team wanted to do something in person, or if they were remote for virtual reality. But COVID forced us to focus exclusively on virtual reality, because we couldn’t do anything in person. Even though these in person adventure challenges for sure, they’re more impactful because they have the mental challenge and the physical challenge. But COVID was both, you know, a challenge in meeting that half of our business sort of went away overnight, but also an opportunity to really focus on the impact and the power of virtual reality and a time that the world was quickly moving towards virtual connection. And now of course, we’re 100% focused on these virtual adventure challenges for connecting remote teams. And COVID was actually a really great launching point to really take control over the, the market for virtual reality team building.

Kara Goldin 12:34
What do you think was? I mean, it’s one thing to say, Okay, I’ve got this idea for a virtual reality team building company, taking you back to some of the, you know, earliest days of this. What, how did you get started? I mean, what did you you weren’t in the event space, you weren’t in the, you know, leadership sales leader? I don’t know, like, who’s sort of in that space? But how did you? How did you just get started? What was your first event? Like?

Marshall Mosher 13:08
Yeah, it’s tough. You know, I think the biggest advantage that that a lot of first time entrepreneurs have is that we don’t know how hard it’s gonna be. So a little bit of that naive optimism to do something before we realize how hard it’s actually going to be. But of course, we, we learned a lot about virtual reality from Singularity University, we’re connected to some really amazing people, and learned how to make a prototype and a minimum viable product to test whether virtual reality was going to be effective in the team building and leadership development space for teams. So of course, at the time, we were focused 100% on these real life in person adventure challenges. And we did work with some really great facilitators on the leadership development side, who were executive leadership coaches, organizational psychologists, who took the themes of the experience of what you’re doing physically, and connected the dots between that and what we wanted to accomplish from a leadership development standpoint. So the experience, we already had a lot of the pieces of that puzzle put together, we really just had to translate it into virtual reality. But before going out and spending a lot of money building a virtual reality experience, which of course takes a lot of time and is expensive. We wanted to really lean into this concept of, you know, the lean startup of creating a minimum viable product to test whether VR could have this effect. And there are some apps on the App Store that we were able to use as experiences, along with our leadership development curriculum, to see if this was something that would be effective for companies and if it’s something that companies would even be interested in buying. So we just found apps on the App Store. Like for instance, there’s this one app called the Ritchie’s pike experience. One of the ones that we actually learned about at the Stanford VR lab is one of the oldest ones in VR, where it’s this virtual plank that looks like it’s coming out of the side of you know, 1000 foot tall building, and all you do is Just walk out to the end of this plank and see if you can jump off the edge. And of course, in real life, you’re just walking on your floor, whether it’s your office, your living room floor, but in virtual reality, you feel like you’re actually on this plank and it terrifies the hell out of people. There’s all kinds of hilarious YouTube videos, we type in. Richie’s playing VR fail, you could spend hours watching some of these, the the point of the story is that it works, it really creates that psychological fear reaction. That’s really what we wanted. That was kind of the magic secret sauce to create these impactful experiences. So we tested that with our leadership development, programming, and it works. So once that worked, and once we started to get some traction with those, we were like, alright, we can actually put some time and effort resources into building our own version of, of what this first experience showed us as possible.

Kara Goldin 15:47
That’s awesome. Well, I always one of the chapters, in my book, undaunted, that I wrote about a year ago, you and I were just chatting about it is about how personal experiences teach us a lot about what we’re capable of. And it Bei, I think, you know, this whole concept of, of separating personal from from business is not reality, when you think about all of the challenges we all go through day to day, I mean, hence, you know, even the pandemic, and sort of all that we’ve learned about ourselves. So the chapter that I wrote about my experience with the Grand Canyon, and how I’m terrified of heights, and how I decided I made a conscious decision to put myself into a situation did lots of planning, I thought I had it all figured out. I started at four o’clock in the morning, so I couldn’t see the floor of the Grand Canyon when I started out. And lots of things happened along the way, including running into a snake Coyote, I was almost killed by a herd of goats that went over my head along the way, I mean, it was just, it was just such an amazing experience. And there were things that happen along the way that I couldn’t plan for, that no one had told me about, and that what I realized is that so much of what I had endured as an entrepreneur, that I relied on myself to kind of get out of situations. But also, just going through that experience allowed me to be better, for the next time, whether or not I do another hike like that, probably well, but also just as a leader, that when you go through experiences, so I totally get what you’re talking about. I think it’s an important piece for sure. So, so when the pandemic hit, tell me a little bit about, you know, your crankin and your business, you’ve got all these, you know, amazing accounts that you’re you’ve been working with, everybody’s super happy. And then all of a sudden, it’s like, Wait, we’re gonna go to virtual and, and so how did you think about that is how prepared were you at this point? Did you ever think that you would get to to be a even partially virtual company? Or what? How did you think about this?

Marshall Mosher 18:30
Yeah, well, you know, just like your story from the Grand Canyon. And this is actually a big theme in my TED talk. I think a lot of times our greatest opportunities for growth and transformation, sometimes around the other side of the things we fear most. And for us, even though Virtual Reality since the beginning has always been in our roadmap, most of our revenue that was funding, the operations of the company, keeping the lights on, we’re still coming from those inperson adventure experiences and those stops overnight. So definitely, one of our greatest fears became a reality as did with most companies with COVID. But like I mentioned, that also presents a big opportunity for growth and transformation. And we had fortunately put a lot of the pieces in place that we needed for virtual reality to be a big part of the future of what we were building. And we’ve fortunately already done that. But of course, you’re no one’s ever fully ready when something like that happens. So they were there were a few months when our revenue as a company went to zero flatline, as I’m sure a lot of other companies, especially services events based companies experienced. But a few months went by and a company started to realize that it wasn’t the end of the world. That remote work was here to stay at least for a while, and that if you’re gonna keep your talent and retain your team, you’re still going to have to focus on building and improving those team relationships and investing in the ability for your team to perform At their peak level in a remote setting. So finally, companies started to realize that they had to find some way to engage their team remotely, and started looking for solutions. To do that, of course, zoom and video conferencing was a big component. But companies also started looking for other ways like virtual reality. Of course, VR hasn’t really taken off. From a mainstream perspective, it’s getting close. And at the time, it was a lot less. So a lot of what we had to do was pretty strong outbound sales, both of the companies we’d worked with on the in person events side as well as other companies, we thought would be a good fit, and really teach people what virtual reality was, and how it was more than just a video game console for kids how it was a really powerful tool for remote work. And that gave us an opportunity to showcase that through a relatively cheap piece of technology, you can teleport your team into a virtual office together, or to the side of Mount Everest together for inspirational team building activity or for a brainstorming session in a virtual whiteboard all in a virtual office. And once we really started to showcase what VR could do, we started to be kind of positioned ourselves as the virtual reality team building and team development company started to get more inbound as well. So like I mentioned before, it was a really challenging situation, but a big opportunity for growth in what we’ve become as a virtual reality company.

Kara Goldin 21:30
That’s awesome. And so do you think that it becomes totally virtual, as people start to come back into, you know, in like, live in person events, I mean, I’ve just now started to pick up my keynotes and and they’re starting, they’re smaller. A lot. I don’t think anyone’s doing I mean, I think there’s, there’s a few 3000 person events, I haven’t been invited to them. But it’s, it’s definitely they’re coming back. But I think more than anything, it’s more like a couple of 100 people at most, do you think that that’s like, where do you see your company fitting into the future?

Marshall Mosher 22:13
Yeah, so you know, there’s, there’s nothing better than reality, because it’s real, and virtual, will always be a component but but real life. events and opportunities to get together are always going to be better in till the day when we have the technology to be like The Matrix, and you can’t tell virtual reality is virtual, but in person is always going to be sought after and be better until that point. But I do think that virtual reality is going to be a stronger tool for times, we don’t really have to come together, I think it’s shown the world and as virtual reality grows, it’s beginning to show this even more that it is a really powerful alternative to a zoom based connection to the point where you really do feel like you’re actually there. But of course, nothing’s better than actually being there in person. But in terms of engaging teams, and coming together as communities, real life is not the only way to go about it, we don’t have to get on a plane ticket on a plane and buy that expensive plane ticket for, you know, a one day event to just fly back. I think the days of you know, fly traveling across the country for you know, an hour business meeting, and then traveling back, I think those are over. But of course, it will be a mix between in person and virtual. And a lot of companies that we’re working with and talking to are looking at that hybrid approach of having their team come into the office a few days a week of the week, and then work from home a few days of the week, and converting that office space to more collaborative space. But also being able to be productive at home, and saving a lot of money on downsizing that office space and turning it into something that is more efficient, utilized for the things that really can only be done together in person. But the answer your question, I think it’s gonna be a hybrid of both, but it’s definitely easier to connect virtually than it ever has been. And I think that was one of the really positive benefits that COVID brought the world of remote work.

Kara Goldin 24:06
Yeah, definitely. You know, it’s interesting. I was thinking about your business this weekend and thinking about, you know, one of the questions that I always ask people like, what makes a great leader? I think the the interesting thing is, is that, you know, speaking about heights, and it’s something that I’ve I’ve realized and my husband has realized my husband’s not afraid of heights, but he’s realized over the years that there’s moments where he can see it in me where I mean something as simple as like the Empire State Building, building, you know, will go up to the top and I just become, you know, very shaky very uneasy in some ways and for him, even though he’s not necessarily experiencing it for him. I think it’s really focused On, on, how can he support other people? And how can he become a more empathetic leader? Right? And I bet you see that in these teams, how it might not be happening to you, it might not be something that you’re feeling along the way when you see the glaciers, about to come down on you, but how do you actually support teams more? Tell me a little bit about what you’ve seen, what is what is kind of the most memorable or craziest experiences you’ve seen along the way?

Marshall Mosher 25:36
Yeah, I love that story about the Empire State Building, because that’s so true. I think a lot of us have, you know, wondered what it would be like to fly. But then when we think about it, the fear of falling, you kind of overwhelms that excitement of what it’d be like to fly in and we stay in the ground. But the more we start to think about it, the more we can feel comfortable with that idea of heights, that idea of flying, you can use that as a metaphor, if we have the people that believe in us and support us to be there almost as our wings, if you use the metaphor of flying in wings, the people who are around us are the wings that can catch us if we follow and help to take away that fear of falling that comes with that fear, or that you know, dream of flying. So the more that we can be there for the people we work with, and serve as their wings through encouragement, and, you know, positive, you know, you know, just reinforcement and an encouragement around the challenge that someone is dealing with, the more that person feels comfortable with that environment that might be challenging them. So really giving people the opportunity to do that is really the kind of secret sauce that creates really powerful connection, and relationships. So when someone is right there on the edge of the crevasse crossing that ladder and having those same feelings of fear of heights or or if someone is in an in person adventure experience, like we used to take teams rappelling where you’d be using a rope to walk backwards down the side of a cliff. Regardless of whatever environment you’re in that fear of heights triggering that challenge, someone feels that they can overcome, the way to overcome that is actually have to have the people that are around you, and support you and cheer you on and give you the courage that you didn’t think you had yourself. And the more that we can get the leader of a group to exhibit both that support as well as the vulnerability you’re on the stack that they also feel that fear and that challenge themselves, the more the team is going to come together around that.

Kara Goldin 27:36
Yeah, definitely. And the more that you go through things or hear things along the way, that maybe people are doubting you or don’t you build this team. Anyway, I totally get what you’re what you’re talking about, one of the people that we had on my show a couple of months ago is very good friend of mine is Allison Levine. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Allison, but she was actually leading the first women’s trip to Everest a few years ago, and, you know, a two month track and was going through that crevice and, and the one thing that she talks a lot about is is that complacency will kill you. And that is one of the points in particular that she stops everyone at when she’s describing her story. And how when that team almost died on the way up, they they really built this bond when I guess when you almost don’t make it together to there’s some laughter There’s some tears there some, you know, real emotions, but there’s a bonding that goes on. And she talks about that. And anyway, it’s a it’s very, yeah, it’s a lot. It’s, it’s a very emotional time, for sure. So

Marshall Mosher 29:03
powerful. And, you know, a lot of professional sports teams and the military really understand this, you know, the more you can put a team through a shared challenge, especially when there’s the risk of death, or even the perception of the risk of some type of you know, bodily injury, even if that perception is a real like in virtual reality, pushing through that shared challenge is what builds that really powerful team. And that’s why no sports teams in the military use the types of training that they use. But realistically, companies can’t really do those types of things with, you know, a team of all different types of physical fitness levels, but we can all practice that mental challenge and the mental strength of pushing through an obstacle like that. And that’s really the I think the power of virtual reality. But yeah, that’s an awesome story. I’ll have to listen to that episode with Allison. Yeah, definitely

Kara Goldin 29:53
check it out. And if you She also did a TED talk if you haven’t heard her TED Talk, Speaker Have TED talks, you should definitely listen to Allison’s TED Talk. But also tell me about your upcoming TED Talk. And and how did you decide to to apply to do it?

Marshall Mosher 30:13
Yes. So speaking of overcoming things that we fear, and then challenges, you know, public speaking, is actually the number one challenge in the US fear of heights is number two. So we’re just hilarious that people would rather jump off a cliff and speak in front of the crowd. But for whatever reason, it’s very true. And I’ve always wanted to get more into sharing this story, this theme and my personal story, public speaking has always been something that scared me. And so it’s, it’s trying to kind of be that first leap into kind of sharing that journey and getting more into that space. So I’m, I’m really excited for it. It’s coming up this Sunday,

Kara Goldin 30:54
super, super excited. So definitely let us know we’ll try and put it in the notes to to get people to watch it. And I’m really, really excited to see it. So one other fun fact that I read about, I read that you are a test pilot, I need to figure out how to get this gig. So definitely would get over my fear of heights in order to go try this. So test pilot at gravity industries, where you get to wear a jet suit, and fly around. So it’s, can you give us a little bit of background on how you got this gig? I mean, this is amazing.

Marshall Mosher 31:34
Yeah, so gravity is a UK based company, that Richard Browning, the founder has done it really amazing feat of engineering and taking micro gas turbines, his little jet engines, they’re the exact same as big jet engines just little used for model aircrafts and remote control jets, and figured out a way to take those jet engines and strap them to your body in various configurations that can allow you to fly by force vectoring. If you haven’t seen it, you can very easily find videos on YouTube or Instagram, Instagram, your gravity industry. They’re amazing, amazing. And around the time when gravity was starting to branch off with not just speaking engagements, but starting to learn how we can actually get people in the suit to learn how to do it themselves. I was kind of just transitioning vestido from these in person, you know, executive leadership adventure experiences to virtual reality and very much using these adventure challenges to teach themes and leadership development. And it was a really great opportunity to work with gravity to actually help create jitsu training opportunities in the US that we could use from, you know, a super high end version of se go experience a, you know, adventure challenge that could teach themes and leadership development. So I helped gravity commercialize the Jessie training program in the United States, and bring what they were doing in the UK, here to the US. And we do two training experiences a year out in your part of the country, but down to LA and camerea. And give people the chance to not just see the Jesu or hear about it or hear Richard speak at a conference but actually put it on and learn how to fly it. And it’s pretty amazing experience.

Kara Goldin 33:19
That’s so great. That sounds like so much fun. So it’s definitely on my bucket list. If you need a volunteer I’m, I’m here for you. So

Marshall Mosher 33:29
I’ll let you know next time we do it.

Kara Goldin 33:30
Yeah, no, I would. I would absolutely love to do it. And your podcast, by the way inside the adventure is truly terrific. Can you tell share a little bit more about your podcasts with people?

Marshall Mosher 33:45
Thanks. Yeah, it’s a lot of stories probably like Allison’s that you mentioned of people doing amazing things in the world of adventure and travel and trying to get the inside stories of how these you know, record setting Red Bull action sport athletes and founders of, you know, adventure themed companies, how they’ve combined their passion in their profession in the world of travel and adventure, to do what they’ve done. And it’s really starting to be the inside story behind not just what they’ve done that’s made them popular and well known but how they got there, super similar to how I built this podcast by NPR, but not just for entrepreneurship, but for lifestyle design in the adventure space.

Kara Goldin 34:28
I absolutely love it and encourage everybody to listen to it. It’s it’s a lot of fun. So well. Thank you so much Marshall, where do people find out a little bit more about you and and besides the podcast?

Marshall Mosher 34:42
Yeah, people can always find me and reach out to me on Instagram and then from the link in my bio, see all the other things that I do? The company the podcasts, all that. It’s just at Marshall Mosher Oh, and Instagram.

Kara Goldin 34:56
Terrific. So thank you so much for coming on today. Marshall. and sharing everything with us good luck on the TED talk very, very excited for you and can’t wait to watch it for sure. And it’s just great to hear how you’ve combined so much of what you’ve love with your passion and inspire so many people to get out of their element. And I and I really, really believe you probably have inspired people to not just think about themselves, but also to think about lifting others which is is what I think we all need to be doing more of and I absolutely love it. So thank you again for coming on. And thanks, everybody for listening to this episode. We’re here every Monday and Wednesday on the Kara golden show. And if you liked this episode, please give it five stars. Definitely Marshall would appreciate that as well. We’re on Apple podcasts Spotify to and definitely follow me on all social channels at Kara golden with an AI and finally, if you have not picked up a copy of my book or downloaded it from Audible, it’s called undaunted, overcoming doubts and doubters. Definitely do that too. And while you’re at it, pick up a case of hint or any of our other fun products that are out there. Really, really appreciate all of you for listening and for inspiring me to continue doing this and, and with all these great guests that come on. I feel really, really grateful and fortunate to be able to do everything that I’m doing every day. So thanks again, everyone. And thanks again Marshall. Have a wonderful week with all that you are doing. So thanks, everyone. Thanks, Marshall.

Marshall Mosher 36:43
Thanks for having me on here.

Kara Goldin 36:45
Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book calm and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight? Send me a tweet at Kara golden and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara golden thanks for listening