Ego and Natasha Iwegbu – Co-founders of The Good Mineral

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be, I want to just make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show, though, join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. It’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. And I’m thrilled to have my next guest here, guests, I should say two guests, two sisters. Very, very thrilled. So we have Eggo and Natasha. As I said, they are sisters. And their last name, I hopefully will not butcher it, but he wed boo. So hopefully that was right. And they are the co founders, awesome co founders, CEO and product development of an incredible makeup brand called the good mineral. And they were so kind to send me some product actually, our mutual friend Sarah Dusic introduced us and Natasha is currently in DC. But Eggo is actually in Johannesburg, South Africa. So we’re so excited to have both of you here today. And as I said, they are sisters, they are the co founders of the good mineral. And they are natural products in all different shades. And for all different skin types. And more than anything, I loved their backstory of going from kind of a different career. And basically from the salon business, also from the stem business. And I just think that more than anything, their backgrounds just show people that if you’ve got passion, and you’ve got commitment, and you’ve got a great idea and a an awesome product, you can do it and even if you’re sisters, that that can be done. So I’m very, very excited to have you both on here today. So welcome.

Ego Iwegbu 2:28
Thank you. lovely to be here.

Kara Goldin 2:31
lovely to have you. So let’s start at the beginning. So did you to always know that you were going to eventually work together?

Ego Iwegbu 2:39
Definitely. No,

Natasha Iwegbu 2:40
no. No. I’ll let Ego take

Ego Iwegbu 2:46
is where we’re actually very different in character. I’m sort of like the extrovert that goes around doing all sorts of social things. And Natasha is, has been literally an inventor since since the day I can remember. So there’s like two years between us. And I remember Natasha sitting inside her special little cupboard, you know, mixing things and soldering iron, ironing things and creating things. And I was and I used to just look at her and think oh my god, she’s mad, and run out and go and meet my friends. So we’ve got very, very different characters. So no, we didn’t we didn’t know

Kara Goldin 3:30
what. And Natasha is a mechanical engineer by by training by trade. And so you grew up in South Africa. Not at all we’re not no interest. Okay, so take us back.

Natasha Iwegbu 3:45
We lived in England, I lived in England until I was eight Ego was 10. And then we moved to West Africa, which is where our father is from at the ages of eight and 10. And we lived I lived in Nigeria until we until I was 14 I guess I was 16 and then move back to London. So predominantly, we grew up in the UK with seven years in Nigeria, which was really interesting out. But now I go move to Joburg. Okay,

Kara Goldin 4:17
got it got it and you and you both got degrees in STEM.

Ego Iwegbu 4:22
What stem what is stem

Natasha Iwegbu 4:24
stem it’s science tech engineering was see mathematics.

Ego Iwegbu 4:30
She is not I didn’t matter. I did I did mathematics I did mathematics

Kara Goldin 4:36
and and so stem I think is still considered mathematics and and also engineer falls underneath there. So I guess a newer term along the way, but definitely talk to me a little bit about the beauty side of how you guys decided to jump into this. So that

Ego Iwegbu 4:55
so I think the beauty side happened a lot later. It wasn’t it wasn’t anywhere new or degree times or anything like that I was, I was doing my degree and but the thing is that I had always felt that I wanted to start my own business, I was always very eager to figure out what I was going to do with my life after the degree. Because if you had left it to me, if I had been born to an entrepreneurial family, I would have probably started my first business at 14 or something, because I really wanted that. So I was always looking for what business I would start and it would, it had to be something social. So when I finished my degree, I got sucked into the world of jobs, because there was a panic that you weren’t going to get employed and students weren’t getting employed, graduates weren’t getting employed. So you know, I got into I got sucked into the fear of that and ended up in my corporate job, which I hated within minutes, literally of starting. And then I had started to get my nails done in various parts of London that were not the coolest parts of London that I loved to hang out in. And I couldn’t understand why I couldn’t get my nails done, where I hang out on Oxford Street or Bond Street, Central London. And that’s how the idea came to me. I thought, oh, my gosh, we need nail bars in central London, that will be my first business. So that’s how that started. Of course, it had nothing to do with my degree. And there was no part of anybody that was around me in my life that thought it was a good idea. But I but you know, it was like, a fire was lit in me that idea was there. And I had just had to press go. And I was going no matter what,

Kara Goldin 6:39
and what was the name of the beauty bars.

Ego Iwegbu 6:41
It was called, they were called nail Haven. I mean, they were like the place to be and they were in the middle of the coolest department stores. I came up with that idea. If you ever walk into a department store and see an open plan nail bar, that was my idea. That’s amazing. It was the first no one else had ever done it and and I thought this this is where I want to get my nails, I want to get my nails done in the middle of the department store so I could look around, watch people shop, listen to great music. And you know and and have a good time doing my nails not a boring time not a can’t wait for it to be over and get out of here time. So that’s why I started nail Haven and I got to six of them eventually, before it all kind of crumbled in my hands.

Kara Goldin 7:33
And what what do you what did you learn from that experience? When you say when you look back,

Ego Iwegbu 7:38
I learned so much because it was my first business. I was super young. I had no experience. I didn’t know how to manage people. I hadn’t thought about the fact that it was so staff human intensive and that that it would be really difficult to scale, a service business like that. To me, I just thought it was like a formula like mathematics was set up a nail bar, we’ll do get a rotor, you know, we’ll put the products there and people will just come sit down and we’ll make money and that’ll be the end of it. But of course that’s not how it works. Because it’s human led, which means that people are off sick or don’t want to be at work or don’t do a good job. And and so it became very apparent that it was a difficult business for me to scale. And I had put all my eggs into one basket I had pitched it to really big brands on the high street. I got into Topshop, we’ve got into Selfridges got into more and more. Selfridges. And then one day, Selfridges decided that they wanted to do something else with their floor space. And then that was the end of nail Haven.

Kara Goldin 8:48
Wow, interesting. But I as I always tell people, like the biggest challenging times are really, that’s where you learn the most right? And those are the best entrepreneurs who can go out and do something. And be very, very clear about what they’re how they’re going to do things differently along the way. So it’s a it’s a great story. So and Natasha, how about you? Where did you start out? What was your first role?

Natasha Iwegbu 9:13
So I’m obviously an engineer, and I was always surrounded. I was always in all male environments, but I’m one of three girls so we have another sister who’s younger, and it was a really girly household. And we always spend time every weekend like doing our nails and brushing our hair and we always had these beauty rituals. And so I really stuck out when I did engineering because I think I was the only girl who actually brushed her hair in our there were five girls in the class of 80 men 80 Boys if you like and I would actually come to class with makeup and an eye and I didn’t see why I am had to, you know, not, I had to forfeit my makeup in order to be an engineer like I was like, I’m going to, I’m going to be glamorous. And I’m going to be an engineer and and that’s just, that’s just the way it is. And so sort of later on I, I had always been frustrated with makeup in general. Because in England back then there were hardly any brands for like brown girls like me. And so I would always go to the makeup counter. And there were, there was like one brand that did a shade that would match mine. And I hated that brand. And so just my entire mindset of solving problems and creating solutions and inventing stuff, it just led me to, to start formulating my own makeup, I mean, I would eventually do that, because I liked makeup. And I wanted to keep wearing it. And I would always break out from the ingredients in the makeup brands that were available to me. I also couldn’t find the colors that I wanted. And so it was bound to happen, I would eventually, like just make my own. So that’s how this journey started. That’s how I got into beauty. Just to solve problems. It’s it’s always been the same for me, I just want to solve the problems that I see around me.

Kara Goldin 11:19
I’d love that. And it’s it’s pretty shocking to think that makeup was just a few colors, right? I mean, and there were obviously I think there were probably more lipsticks that had different colors. But when you think about the core of of so much makeup, there were just so many basic ones. And that was you know, that was it just a few and and it’s really surprising on many fronts that more and more people didn’t think about that. And so what were the ingredients that you really started thinking about when you were kind of formulating more than anything that a lot of things use that you didn’t want to use.

Natasha Iwegbu 12:01
It began with dissatisfaction with color and despite dissatisfaction with texture, I have sensitive skin and I’m prone to breakouts. Eggo has acne. Still, I think, can I say that? I go. Yeah. And so we were always very sensitive to ingredients. And heavy cakey makeup just broke us out. And so when I started to formulate Well, when I, when I first decided to create a brand, I went to manufacturers and spoke to a bunch of manufacturers. And I was shocked when I realized that most of the people in the room were the older males that I was surrounded by, in my engineering job. I was like, Hold on, I could be at a meeting right now at Landrover, you guys formulate the makeup, you know, I could say that, obviously. But I was I was in a room with older males and and the way that they would speak about females was as if we were these silly, silly beings that would accept anything that they formulated. And I remember in one of my meetings, I was actually speaking to the man who had formulated this brand that was like my nemesis. It was like the heaviest Kiki’s brand and he looked straight directly at me and said, you know, women of color like heavier coverage. That’s why I’ve formulated this souffle is called was called souffle. That’s why I formulated it like that. And that was like, oh, yeah, I was. So I was so appalled. Because women of color in particular don’t like heavy coverage. They weren’t like to cover all women want lighter coverage. But it was the authority with which he, you know, he spoke about this, I was like, well, so I realized pretty quickly that I wasn’t going to get a solution by going to an existing manufacturer, like these guys were not in touch with anything. And they were, they were very proud of themselves because they had sold, they were obviously selling oodles of makeup and it wasn’t perfect and they just didn’t care. So I decided that I would formulate my own makeup and at that point, I had just moved to America. My husband is American. And I think that that had a massive impact on my ability to actually start making my own makeup because the maker space in America is was really like amazing to me like in England, you couldn’t just ordering ingredients online. You couldn’t you couldn’t get hold of things like that. But when I moved to the states like you Google something, and and yeah, you can find this ingredient you can find that ingredient. But I mean, the main thing for me was I wanted to find like what is the ingredient that allows you to create coverage, like what is it that allows us to create coverage. And let me isolate that first and then I can add The ingredients that I need, you know, to to do other things. So once I isolated that, and I realized that we needed like three or four pigments, and you need pigments rather than dyes, because dyes are irritating, and they’re cheap. And pigments are expensive, and they’re concentrated. So it was like, okay, so we need pigments, we need three pigments, because, you know, primary colors, we need three primary color pigments. Alright, check. And I make sure that those are not derived from animals that they are gentle and mild. And then what else do we need, you know, and so I approached it almost like an elimination diet. I didn’t add in anything that wasn’t completely necessary. And everything that I did add was like, really, really pure. And I was making it for myself when I was making it for Lego. And so it was just, it was really like a no brainer, I was blending the stuff in my kitchen. So there wasn’t anything that was toxic, that was good to get through my kitchen, I had a toddler, a baby, actually, Alexander was a baby at the time. So I was blending the stuff on the kitchen counter together with with what we were eating. And that was how I formulated all of these that and products that sort of little by little so after I made my shade, then I went out and I found models. And there are funny stories about me stopping women on the street that I didn’t know, I was like, please come and just

Kara Goldin 16:31
based on the color, and they’re just based

Natasha Iwegbu 16:34
on their color. Yeah, I would see like interesting complexions. And I would like you’ve got to come and model for me that like, like, don’t be frightened, my child will be to bring out the blender would take six hours, six hours to get. So there, there isn’t a single shade that was made in a lab we didn’t you know, when shades are made in labs, you sort of like have a swatch, and then you put it under the UV light to check to match it with something that I was, I was matching it on a live person on a live woman. And so we would tweak it and tweak it and tweak it until we got the shade right and that’s how all the shades in the line are made that way on live models.

Kara Goldin 17:15
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Ego Iwegbu 20:17
right? So I mean, it was really a just a test run. So I had after I had lost my salons in the UK, I turned a became a consultant salon consultant and ended up writing two books on salon business and setting up various beauty counters for many brands. And so that was what I was doing until I moved to South Africa. And then ended up opening two salons here, which was also not the plan. But I ended up opening two salons here. And they were really, really, really busy. I mean, the salons that I had in the UK were very popular and actually did really well. But now I had all this experience and learnings. And so I opened up two more salons here with a lot of that experience a lot of those learnings so the salons were booming, and they were amazing. And we built we built huge amounts of trust with the customer. And my mom one day basically our mom said, egg oh my goodness, these salons are so busy. Why don’t you bring Natasha’s formulas and, you know, test them and try them on the women in your salon. And I thought okay, well let’s try that. So that’s how it started. So it was started, we were just trying it out. And Natasha would send would blend and would send over the powders. And I would jar them on my dining room table and we would label them and we would put them out in the salon. And of course look at the end of the day. The combination of the grassroots method that Natasha use to create those magic powders is what we call them now because they literally are like magic. Combined with the grassroots, you know, method that we use in the salons, the fact that we know our customers firsthand, we put the product on firsthand, over 50,000 faces. The combination of that was just just created a truly magical business we would sell out I would call Natasha, Natasha mix more the Sasha watts, how did you already sell that just sell it selling the Tasha just mix more. And so we had this crazy, sort of 18 months of mix more mix more now we’re selling made a lot of money in Johannes, that that I would go to parties here in Johannesburg and I would bump into a woman who I don’t know, maybe she would she would have bought the product. She’ll go you guys, you guys got me off of my other brand. And now you don’t have any caramel three? How can you do that I need more product. Now. You know, Tasha makes me

Kara Goldin 23:01
go back became quickly passionate about it. So you got your super consumers pretty fast. And that’s amazing. So where is the good mineral available today? I mean, how do people buy it? Right. So

Ego Iwegbu 23:13
we we basically recently launched it as a DTC online. In the United States, as the good mineral it is 33 Amazing powders that Natasha formulated for years. And you can find us basically online, which is WWE dot the good mineral.com and on our Instagram, where we will color match you if you DM your selfie to us because we’ve color matched so many people virtually and in person, we know our product inside out. And so we’re really able to color match people perfectly online. So all you have to do is send in a selfie and then we’ll tell you what your shade is and then you’ll use the best foundation you’ve ever tried in your life.

Kara Goldin 24:02
It is really terrific. It’s a fantastic foundation. What

Ego Iwegbu 24:06
I wanted to say with regards to it being a mineral makeup brand, I think it’s really important for people to understand that assuming that all mineral makeup is the same is really not right. It’s like thinking that all liquid foundations are the same, which and we know that that’s not the case. So the fact that Natasha created these formulations with that sort of elimination diet idea of only putting in what was absolutely necessary. She has created products that are truly unique and when applied. That’s why we ended up with that’s why we’ve ended up with such a cult following out here in South Africa. And that’s why even though we only launched three months ago, we’ve already got genuine five star reviews on our website and through our Instagram page. People are absolutely obsessed with it already.

Kara Goldin 25:03
Well, it’s a terrific product, the foundation’s in the powder. I tried them. They’re absolutely, absolutely amazing. So how do you build a brand? Right? I, you obviously launched this during this crazy last couple of years. I mean, how, how do you think about building a brand? It sounds like your strategy is to be in your salon and then also build the direct to consumer business. And but how do you get the word out about your product? And I think get trial as well, because people need to try it more than anything. How do you do that?

Ego Iwegbu 25:42
Yeah, so So I think one of the most important things to do with a brand, initially, even from the start is to create trust. And the way to create trust, when no one has ever heard of you, is through quality imagery, and very, very clear information. So one of the things that we did was make sure that first of all, our packaging, and our, the visuals of our product are supersonically amazing, they look great. So immediately a person looks and goes, Oh, this looks like a real brand. And then you build the most amazing website, you make sure that it’s fully functional, which of course these days is quite straightforward. But you make sure that on the website, and anywhere where you’re talking about the brand, you speak with authenticity and clarity, and you really sort of touch on people’s pain points. You know, a lot of the pain points are I hate foundation don’t like the way it looks on my on my skin, it looks like a mask, it feels heavy, we talk about those pain points a lot. And we address them through blogs, and through the content that’s on our website and through the content that’s on our on our Instagram, which is our main social media platform that helps to build trust. And I treat every new follower that we have on Instagram as as if they’re a customer that’s just walked into my salon. So you know, I imagine, if I’ve got 3000 people coming into my salon, then that’s bloody amazing. If I’ve got 100 people, then that’s amazing. One person is amazing. So, so when you’re building that, that when you’re starting a brand, think about the name properly, think about how it looks. And then think about how you’re presenting it, make sure that you present it in a way that allows people to immediately trust you, and therefore choose you. And that’s how it starts. And then when one person chooses you, you you nurture that relationship, the next person chooses you you continue to nurture every single relationship through emails through communications, we never let a DM go by without being answered. On Instagram, we never let an email go by without being answered. You know, I literally treat everybody online as though they were real life people in front of me. And I think that that makes a massive difference to how the brand is viewed and how it’s growing.

Kara Goldin 28:10
Definitely, I do think you’ll be in stores as well. Is that part of the goal to get into more stores throughout throughout the world? And and what do you what do you think?

Ego Iwegbu 28:22
Absolutely, absolutely. We’re just we’re focusing right now on on visibility on getting ourselves seen and heard, getting the cost getting a few customers. And then once we’ve kind of built to a certain tipping point, then of course, we will be pitching to all the right stores want to be an altered Sephora, and

Kara Goldin 28:43
all of them colds and everything. Well, I know. I laugh because we’ve we’ve interviewed a few different people who have said that they’re just going direct to consumer. And that’s how they want to grow their business. And so yeah, which I think is really interesting. It’s not necessarily everyone’s strategy, but I think it’s it’s an interesting strategy for many people. And then there’s other people who are talking about iOS and not being able to, to track the consumer going forward. And you know, and, you know, it’s, it’s becomes very, very expensive to gain new customers. And there’s other people who are really kind of moving away from the direct to consumer business. So I’m always curious when I talk to brands, what kind of works for them, and I think it really just depends on your margins of your business as well and all of those things, too. So I was

Ego Iwegbu 29:39
just gonna say that I think that certainly for us, one of the strategies for this year is to create a variety of events and pop ups in the state’s in a couple of well not a couple in about five of key states that we’re really interested in. Because I think that there is a lot of power in In face to face, real life, human market, you know marketing directly to the to the person, because that always increases your following on social media. And because the product is so well made, and it’s so good, it generally tends to get a lot of word of mouth happening. I know it’s not in the hundreds of 1000s as you would get online. But even if you get 10,000 Real Life humans that have touched and felt your product and love it and have adopted you as the brand as their brand of choice, then it then there’s a way that it spreads in in real life, that is very powerful.

Kara Goldin 30:48
Have you run into any surprises in launching this brand that you were, you know, whether it’s in the packaging, or whether it’s who your customer is? Pricing? Is there anything that is really been surprising to you?

Ego Iwegbu 31:04
Um, not really, I think, I think one of the one of the shockers that last, when we first launched was how expensive it was to, to put ads out in Google and get keywords to work for you. I remember one keyword, I put out a keyword and a couple of and it came back like I think we spent almost like $100 on this one, click for this one keyword. And I thought never, never, ever, we are not doing that. Again, I would rather take my $1,000 and stand on the street and sell 10 of these foundations to real life humans, then spend $100 paying for that for that keyword.

Natasha Iwegbu 31:50
I think that I think that we’ve made a surprise, we discovered that when you use the word mineral, the word mineral has been used by lots of other brands. So our click cost per click was, was going to be just too high to absorb. And so we would have to look for other methods, that would be less expensive. But the cost per click, I think really did take us by surprise. We didn’t expect that. But I think that it was because the makeup arena is so crowded. And the key SEO words are are taken and used by other brands. But we still kind of need those words, we can’t adopt new ones. And so we have to like look at different strategies. But I think that I think in the future, one of the things we might do, which will prove to be what will likely prove to be effective would be to niche down and create actual niches of users who you know, who have certain pain points, I think by niching down, eating down is the only way that we can sort of overcome the click costs that we’re experiencing online. Right? We have

Ego Iwegbu 33:05
we have done that we haven’t we haven’t ignored that. Like we’ve kind of really sort of focused on acne prone, or people who need makeup for eczema when they’ve got eczema and stuff like that. So you kind of really homed in on particular segments. Yeah,

Kara Goldin 33:26
yeah. Amazing. So one of the things that I always ask people is to share a story you’ve shared a little bit of of one already. But if there’s a nother story where you faced a big challenge or failure along the way, whether it’s with the good mineral, it’s still early. So it or you know another situation where it was, you weren’t sure whether or not you were going to be able to go forward. But you looked back on that. And Steve Jobs used to say the dots eventually connected and helped you to be a stronger entrepreneur today.

Ego Iwegbu 34:08
Oh my gosh, like challenge of the challenge of the challenge. You mean? How did you overcome and continue to run? loads so many, so many challenges, so many challenges and so many times where you have moments where you just think okay, well that’s it then I’m clearly not good enough? Or maybe I’m just not smart enough? Or you know, maybe it’s just not for me. There are so many of those I mean from you know losing the first six salons that I opened to issues with staff and losing really good people that were on you that you thought were on your team and they’re not, you know, there’s just pain that happens all the time. In the good mineral I’ll tell you which is we’re so young but you Yes, it’s already happened. One of our key employees couldn’t come back after her maternity leave, she was expected back in January. And she tells me in at the end of December, that she’s not going to make it back. And she might come back in six months. But you know, if I need to find somebody else than I should, and I, and I was gutted, I was really expecting her back. So we’re kind of scrambling around now trying to find a better ops manager.

Natasha Iwegbu 35:30
But I think in general, I have a few incidents where you see you, you’re trying to go from one point to another, you’re trying to expand and get larger, and eventually you realize you have to go to a manufacturer or you have to. So I remember there was once I put in an order for brushes with a manufacturer, and I received the samples which I signed off, and I, I liked them. And then when the when the order finally arrived, you open up all these boxes, and at this point, you have 1000s of units, and they’re they’re all terrible. And and then you sort of think well, what do I need to do in the future to stop that from happening? Do I need to just pay more? Do I need to find better support? I mean, obviously, I need to find better suppliers. But how do I prevent that from happening? And I typically go back to like my background, I think my background in engineering is very helpful in so many ways. Because then you realize, oh, that’s the reason why we have our spec, our specification signed off, you know, by six different people at Landrover. I need better specs. And so there were there were a few occasions where that happened, where something came back that needed mass production. That wasn’t arrived, it wasn’t the correct quality, it wasn’t the right quality. And so putting in like quality assurance systems, after that, it became very obvious that it’s really, really necessary to do this. There is no way around it. So yeah, I had a stroke. There was a case like that with jaws that happened once and with brushes that were like got the wrong quality,

Kara Goldin 37:27
has supply chain overall been a challenge for you, especially being a brand new brands. And I always, you know, share this with friends who are not in a physical goods business, that it’s I think anyone who’s in the physical goods business realizes that, you know, this time has been really challenging. And the younger you are as a brand, the less clout you have, as well, because your minimums are smaller, and all of those things are tougher, and and also more expensive. Right. So you’re trying to ship things. Yes. All of those things.

Ego Iwegbu 38:06
Yes. We suffered huge delays of course during COVID. With the with the shipment, and we were I mean, we were literally eight months late. Wow. With our planned launch date. Yeah. As in it wasn’t that it was that

Kara Goldin 38:20
off. That’s crazy. And everybody’s dealing with it and also costs I know, at hint, just as an example, all of our components are in the US but it was as much as 30% higher in it for everything from trucking to shipping to I was speaking to who was it Bear Bear would be the blankets, the weighted blankets I had her on. And she was saying 40% Higher. So for her products. So I mean, it’s very, very interesting what people are seeing during this time, and hopefully those costs actually go down. So

Natasha Iwegbu 39:00
do you think they’ll go down? Kara? Do you?

Kara Goldin 39:02
I don’t know.

Natasha Iwegbu 39:03
i That’s the worrying part, isn’t it? I think that so COVID the lockdown is presented so many interesting opportunities in a way so that the b2c market the direct to consumer market has bloomed because everyone’s at home and no one’s in stores. And so that’s created a massive opportunity. But then on the other hand, I think shipping shipping has gone up. You said 40% I think that’s about that’s about right. And then the delay is at least 12 weeks. Without first shipment we experienced what did you say I go eight months, eight, eight months or eight months in total. I was just gonna say My worry is how do we know whether it’ll ever correct itself? Because when when you’ve absorbed a higher cost, if you’ve absorbed it as a business and the customer has absorbed it? Will the shipping companies ever refer back to the lower prices?

Kara Goldin 40:00
Yeah, well, there aren’t enough shipping companies. I mean, that’s really the biggest issue. So I think that that’s a you know, and I think that they are definitely winning and in this world at this moment, but I think that there will be, I mean, certainly Amazon in the US has created, you know, they bought their own trucks, they’re doing last mile delivery there. I mean, that is in exchange for paying crazy shipping. And I think more and more, that’s what people are looking to do. So I think getting in the warehouse business across the UK, or at least in the US, but it’s probably throughout the world for last mile delivery is is going to be pretty decent business to good business, a bit good business to be in. But this is incredible. Thank you both for all of your time, and so much wisdom and wish you both the best of luck. And with the good mineral. It’s it’s absolutely amazing. And thanks, everybody for joining us on the show. We’re here every Monday and Wednesday with incredible entrepreneurs and CEOs who definitely show Purser perseverance, and how that can lead to entrepreneurial success. And definitely give this episode five stars. Download the podcast so that you’re able to get it every single week. Like I said, We’re here every Monday and Wednesday. And shameless plug here. I have a book out as many of you know that I launched a little over a year ago called on daunted that highlights my journey and all the things that I learned along the way. So definitely download it on Amazon. It’s also available worldwide on Audible. And last but not least, if you have not tried our products, the sort of core product is hint water. We’re not available sadly outside of the US, for those who are listening but when you come to the US and hopefully we will be setting up opportunities for hint water to be sent to lots of other parts, hopefully to do last mile delivery in certain countries as well. So stay tuned for that. But thanks everybody and have a great rest of the week. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book calm and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening