Brad Charron: CEO of ALOHA

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. And welcome back to the Kara Goldin show. We are so excited to have Brad Charron here with us here today, who is the CEO of a very yummy, yummy, yummy, yummy plant based protein bar called Aloha. And if you’re not familiar with aloha, I know you’re going to go and walk into a store this afternoon I was just in Trader Joe’s and was just super excited to see all of the space, you are going to recognize this brand. And if you haven’t tried it, you absolutely need to try it. It is so so tasty. And also, as I mentioned, plant based protein bar, that is that will truly knock your socks off. So Brad joined this company, it’s kind of an interesting story, which I can’t wait for him to share, but basically joined the company in 2017, and has taken aloha to incredible and super fast growth. I look forward to discussing his journey joining and scaling Aloha as well as what prompted him to take on this role after helping scale, some minor not so minor, incredible brands that he had worked at before, including Fredo Chobani and kind in senior level roles and hearing more from Brown about his take on the plant based industry overall, as we know that is such a hot hot industry. And everybody’s really looking to get healthier and is looking at finding great products that are under this umbrella. But also I’d love to hear kind of the misconceptions that that he’s sort of run into over the years and maybe even what he thought prior to actually trying your product like Aloha. So thank you so much, Brad, for joining us.

Brad Charron 2:42
Thank you, Kara. We should just stop right now. i That’s good enough. Exactly. Have a great afternoon. Go back to your daily lives.

Kara Goldin 2:49
Exactly. So go find that Aloha bar right now. So please tell us what is a low high? I touched on it for a second, but I’d love to hear your take on it.

Brad Charron 3:00
Yeah. And thank you for having me. It’s a it’s an honor to be associated with all the people that you’ve interviewed in the past. And I’m not worthy of it. So just you know, this is it’s hopefully an episode that adds value in some way. But, but but thank you again, oh, aloha is an organic plant based food company. With a name like Aloha, you could be anything to be honest. And what we’ve chosen to be is really be the best at protein bars, drinks and powders. But I’m also a big believer in the power of food to not just be one dimensional. Some of my favorite authors write about multi dimensional characters. Like I like books that I don’t know what’s going to happen. And so hopefully the company is the same way. The company has versatility, flexibility, but it does a really, really good job about delivering great macronutrients from a certified place you can trust with great taste and texture, like go figure taste and texture matters in the food business. So so that’s what we do. We’re a small company where employee owned and operated. We don’t have a big private equity money behind us. We’ve been fortunate to win distribution in some of the leading retail accounts across the country who are very discerning in a very strong CPG space, winning at Whole Foods and sprouts, Kroger and Albertsons, heb and Wegmans and my little friends, Harris Teeter down there in Carolina, who were the first people to bring me on, and I’m always gonna love them for that. And then a really strong digital business on a wellhead.com, which is kind of where the company started Kara, it was bought by Hawaiian entrepreneurs as part of IP strategy. So we were originally created in Hawaii in Honolulu. And and then how do we, you know, almost nine years after that time, how do we bring it out to the masses and really become the next big brand in in CPG. So, fingers crossed haven’t screwed it up yet. And that goes back to associating ourselves with some really good people. Back in the past, and also still today, who who remember and remind us that, that it’s a gift, it’s a gift to provide food to your family, it’s a gift to, to put your brand out there, that means something beyond just the food itself. And to try to operate a business that’s sustainable in terms of the impact that has holistically but also as a good financial business, because that allows us the fuel to keep going day to day, so. So it’s a privilege to work at Aloha, it’s been. We were talking before it’s been a journey. Not every day is a great day. And, but but the, the sun rises the next day on those, those ones. And you just got to come out with the same spirit and energy as you did at 9am, the previous one, and then kind of let the cards fall where they may, but it’s been a privilege.

Kara Goldin 5:59
So you had been at some pretty amazing brands helped to scale those brands, I don’t think that you would actually been in those brands when they were this small. So this was a big move for you right to to actually not only go in as the CEO, but also be joining something where you really have to build a brand that is not known. So can you talk to me about that decision for you personally?

Brad Charron 6:31
Yeah, it was a crazy an odd decision at the time. And I was cancelled saying like, you could do other things, you know, like, you don’t need to get like, all hooked on this Aloha thing. Like, why don’t you do something that’s different and smarter. And I just barreled forward into it. Really, because I saw the potential, I saw the potential to create something special, not just sustained, not just like financially successful, but like, successful, like, you know, being like a brand like hint, being a brand like Chobani that I was fortunate to be a part of. I was at Under Armour before it was a billion dollars in sales. And and watching you know how Kevin Plank created that company and, and just the guts to go up against the biggest, baddest enemy in the planet and Nike and having the fortitude and the confidence to say, why not us? And that’s what we still say today is why not us? And I remind our team that every day, if there’s a challenge or an obstacle, why not us? And I think so that that kind of mentality through my career, like you said, I’ve got great training at Frito Lay, I got experience in the early 2000s Launching Lucky Brand Jeans, one of my favorite favorite brands of all time, launching them into Europe and Russia and the Middle East. Really, it’s a 24 year old not knowing what business was. And when I was a hockey player. I mean, I didn’t know I knew that dollars and cents were good. And, and but that was largely it. I knew I knew how to stop a puck, which is not an overall career moving skill for those of you listening, but it was it was a great journey to kind of come to Aloha. The the company was shutting down Kara. In fact, when I when I joined in and I got close to the lead investor of the previous iteration of aloha and, and it was a company with tons of potential, but it had lost some of its focus and it had tried to do too much too soon. And, and I’ve always been a big believer in terms of you know, I grew up in Minnesota. So Midwestern hard work, put one foot in front of another and start building success one block at a time. And, and through with a couple people we reformed the whole company, we still kept the nature of of aloha in terms of our commitment to a better way of life. In even when I joined the company, I formed as Hawaiian council back on the islands of Native Hawaiians ethnic Hawaiians to help guide the company’s culture and spirits so that we never strayed far away from the values of humility and accessibility and community, Ilana and Pono you know, great, kind of deep clutching heartfelt words. And and then I think the last thing I’ll say on that is, is you just got to be stupid enough to go in there and think you’re gonna make it fighting against the biggest companies in the world. And I was I was that dumb. And, and at the end of the day, I think that we’re making an impact now and and that’s all you can hope for.

Kara Goldin 9:46
So I’d like to talk about the category overall. So PLANT BASE, how is that different than what’s on the shelf, these other bars that are out there and I know you do more than bars, but sure Just talk about plant based overall, because I think the average consumer doesn’t actually understand exactly what that really means.

Brad Charron 10:08
Yeah, look at the world used to be driven by, in my opinion, protein count. So if it was over 2020 grams would be for muscley. Guys, you know, and if it was under 20, it’d be for a diet product. So that was one way to look at the world. The second was to dichotomize it based on your protein source. So there was soy, there was way animal, and then there was plant. Now, plant really can be anything that’s not soy, or whey. And so the third dimension, what I think is going on now is, is there’s even a bigger degree of what is plant based. And if you’re using nut butters, and you’re you’re using pumpkin and brown rice, or if you’re using p if you’re using those these proteins and kind of ingredients. There’s a lot of plant based bars on the shelf, to be very honest. Now, but are they all equal? Is there any commonality to them. And the closer you look in this is where discerning consumers and this is, these are consumers that read labels, a lot of times, it’s a big category $6 billion plus category in the US, but there’s a lot of consumers reading labels. And they all have opinions, which is wonderful. So as the average food IQ of consumers driven by younger consumers, but even by older consumers, who understand the differences between protein sources, sugar, the kind of sugar you used, what’s the role of fiber, there’s this wonderful healthiness, awakening going on in America, that I love to be a part of, because it means that brands who are the most discerning, the most conscious about the most careful, the most thoughtful, they have an opportunity to win outside of their fair share, versus a big company just pounding coupons or discounting shelf placement, right. So you can actually win with a better product with consumers, because consumers are taking those brands on their backs to do it. Now, you still need to be good at all the season peas, right? All the placement and understanding trade understanding distribution and supply chain, you got to be good at all that stuff. Because you’re competing against people who are really good, who are really resourced. And you should be a little scared of them. You should if you’re not, that’s crazy. I am. But like, you also have to believe that the consumer at the end of the day, appreciates your holistic offering. And it’s gonna taste good. Because no one’s willing to sacrifice forever. If it doesn’t taste good. If it doesn’t have real food texture. Your Niche. Yeah, or a consumer will try it once. And that’s just not interesting, right? That’s not a relationship with a consumer.

Kara Goldin 12:44
Totally. Yeah, no, I say that all the time. It’s, there’s that drink that that will remain nameless that gave you wings that nobody loved the taste of it. And Gone are the days where you could launch a product I think and be successful without a tasting great. Whether it’s a food product or a drink product. It’s it’s the same thing. I think consumers are definitely have to have a product that tastes good for sure.

Brad Charron 13:11
Yeah. When you have to mix it with vodka to make it taste good. It’s not not high on my list, right?

Kara Goldin 13:17
Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. So you had significant experience with some of the best companies out there. I always share with people that have the kind of old school brands I mean, definitely Fredo I think kind of knew that was great training ground for sure for for you and understanding that. What other experiences did you take away from those experiences? Obviously, Chobani and kind to but were you felt like, Okay, here’s what we need to do in order to make this brand successful?

Brad Charron 13:53
Well, look, I mean, I’ve received so much more than I gave that in all these jobs. So it’s really a blessing, that I was able to be a fly on the wall and a small part of them. I was not a driver of any businesses. I mean, these were driven by Daniel globalscape. Kind, like, I mean, I always thought that food should be created with ingredients you can see and pronounce. Daniel said it’s so and put on the packaging. Check awesome. He brought he drove transparency and a philosophy towards a brand that was a very healthy nut snack. But he did it like a like check. I learned I learned so much watching that trip Humpty at Chobani you know the story, you’ve done the story. It’s incredible what he created out of nothing with nothing. But I was struck with everything that Chobani had meaning. So he had this great cafe in New York, and everything about the cafe had a purpose. So the wood in the cafe spoke to the manufacturer the farms in America, and the steel in the cafe spoke to the reinvigoration of American manufacturing In the glass of the cafe spoke to transparency and food, brand culture, there was a reason for everything. And I think that when you’re a brand that has to be part of your case, like that has to be part of your calling card. At cat UnderArmour. I learned from Kevin about how to be gutsy. And like on the walls, Kara was painted. Cotton is the enemy. Because that’s what Kevin started. He started this tight t shirt business. I was synthetic. But then I got to the company, and he’s like, Hey, Brad, we’re going to launch a cotton product, figure it out. It’s on the walls, Kevin. It says cotton is the enemy. And so what I learned there with that team, and a really smart and talented creative team and Under Armour, was that it really was about reforming the question. So it really wasn’t about cotton being the enemy. It was the fact that traditional cotton was the enemy of performance. And Under Armour as the performance brand. The champion of performance more than any other brand had solved cotton. Without technology, not even a word. I’m gonna make it up without innovated cotton to the point that we made cotton perform. And I learned about reframing problems from that lens from a brand standpoint, while still being true to the to the idea that cotton, least traditional cotton was the enemy. And then like you said, Fredo was a training ground and watching the leaders the people have come out of Chobani out of Fredo and all the companies they’ve led and all the jobs they’ve had, and it’s the breeding ground of general managers today. I was so fortunate to go out of school right to Frito Lay and learn how to build brands in a way that it was the most entrepreneurial CPG company I’ve ever seen. And, and I think that kind of was the starting ground for me Kara to think that I possibly could do it myself one day in the future.

Kara Goldin 16:49
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Brad Charron 19:09
No, no, it’s tough. No, it’s tough. And also when you want to hold you want to be USDA organic, and you want to be Non GMO Project verified. You know, we recently we became a B Corp. That takes a lot of work. Only 4% of companies that apply even get it and those are companies that think they’re gonna get it otherwise they wouldn’t apply to be climate neutral, certified. Now, again, tough to do. But I think it comes down to you can’t sacrifice in your product. Like you just can’t assume that there’s not going to be a better answer. There’s always a better answer if you’re willing to put the work in and go through the iterations to do it. I mean, we went through on the drink we created or like the chocolate drink I think I went through 50 different varieties of chocolate. You know because chocolate is like coffee. There’s so many varieties and people are so particular about it. Just trying to find what the right blend What’s the right balance? Oh, and then you got to figure out if the macronutrient profile is gonna fit. Oh, and there’s this minor thing about margins. Oh, and then there’s this minor thing about dude, does the ingredients blend in the machines you’re going to use? And can you do it consistently? And is it going to be shelf stable? I mean, it’s daunting to think about Kara. Yeah. You know, my father gave me forwards advice. When I graduated Notre Dame, he said, Don’t go into retail. And not only did I did I ignore everything he said, but going into the food business. God, it’s tough. Yeah, the only thing more difficult and he were an ambient product were a shelf stable product. But I mean, the Chobani days are some of my friends, dairy companies, where you got to get everything done, and you got 40 days to do it before your product goes bad. And you’re just flushing money down the drain. I mean, that’s, that’s, that’d be a step too far for me, Kara. I don’t want to, I don’t want to go back to that degree of pressure and stress. Like, I’m already got white hair. I don’t think I can go any more. Yeah.

Kara Goldin 20:58
Well, and you’re really creating space in these stores. I mean, this plant based bar, maybe there were a couple of them out there. But they were Aloha was really pioneering this, this category of plant based bars that are out there, I, I always use the example My father had. I always refer to him as a frustrated entrepreneur, he was at a large company called ConAgra. And prior to that was that armour food company, and they had developed a brand called Healthy Choice. And he actually told me to go into the food industry, which I didn’t initially do. But when he was still alive, he was able to see him at launch and was very excited. But one of the things I asked him was, how do I get shelf space at Safeway? And he had no idea, right? Because he was negotiating internally, with ConAgra and the other, you know, brand managers there too, in order to get the shelf space, or I should say, the freezer case, space. But this, this is a huge adventure for you, because you’re in there trying to fight it out with, frankly, brands that you worked for. Right? That must be incredibly tough.

Brad Charron 22:12
Well, yeah, it you got to go in with eyes open. Yeah. Like I it’s challenging to be a doe eyed entrepreneur in the food space. And I’m not I’m not I mean, I’ve been around like you said, and I think that, that, on the best of days, that moderates me, and are the worst of that worst of days that built me up. Because it’s not easy. Like you said, I mean, I have great respect for the biggest CPG companies in the world. I know how they operate, I was one of them. I have friends who are who were part of it, I have friends who are still there. And you have to respect their scale and their know how and their expertise. They don’t make unforced errors very often. And you got to be really careful as an entrepreneur because one unforced error can put you on a business. Yeah, and so and so I think it is daunting and challenging. But let’s think about the great brands in the space yours. Others, like brands who have created, like you said, it figured out there’s something better, there’s always something better. And I think that’s what drives consumer excitement and engagement. And I go back to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs shelter than food, right. And I what I love about the food business, and I love the fashion business in the same way is that you’re driven by consumer tastes, the consumer is the ultimate arbitrator of what wins and what loses. Like, that’s just a fact. And that kind of space really excites me as a business person as an entrepreneur, because it means you got a chance. And, and really, all you want to do is an athlete has been in the game. And I think that’s been some of the biggest things for me is just putting yourself out there to play. And and doing your best to put it out there that you know, I don’t know what flavor you’re coming in with care. I don’t know whether you’re trying one flavor or another. But I I damn well believe you better have a good first impression. And if you have a good first impression, I bet you you’re going to have a second impression. And that’s the relationship we talked about that keeps going between brands that just exist, and brands are thrive. And that’s the hope when you’re building a companies you’re creating something that can extend beyond and mean something for people beyond just a macronutrient

Kara Goldin 24:22
so what are some of the lowest most popular flavors for bars and what have you learned about flavors? Whether it’s with a low high or you know, you’ve been learning for a few years for another brands that are that are out there? What have you learned about about flavors that may might surprise consumers or people that you know, aren’t as familiar with flavors as you and I are?

Brad Charron 24:52
Well, let’s just say let’s let’s make the easy statement. It’s not a surprise. Peanut Butter sells Yeah, people like peanut butter. No kidding. But even that has take

Kara Goldin 25:02
a drink. I’m not sure. Oh, yeah.

Brad Charron 25:05
Drink. Just think about the consistency of drinking a peanut butter drink kind of grosses me out a little bit. Drinks drinks are meant to be me like drinking on a warm summer day like refreshing. Drinks are not supposed to supposed to be something that fills your mouth like you’re eating a chicken sandwich. Yeah. Yeah, look, I mean, I think there’s let’s let’s let’s talk about what’s not worked thus far. But that doesn’t mean that it won’t work in the future. But thus far, savory, savory bars haven’t worked. The idea of this really interesting, salty, savory bar kind tried it, other people have tried it, it just doesn’t have mass appeal. really exotic flavors that American consumers don’t understand what it is, you’re not going to have the budgets of a big CPG company to explain to consumers what the product is. And if they can’t be, you know, back in retail days, three seconds, simple. If I can’t figure it out three seconds simple on the shelf for my eyes to where the product is on the shelf. In physical retail. There’s an immediate barrier. It’s not an unsurmountable surmountable barrier, but it’s a barrier, nonetheless, you’re trying to reduce barriers as a smaller brand, like get me to try you. I think that then I’ll flip to, to some other things. Its flavors that people know, but new takes on them. So like our chocolate mint bar, my wife’s favorite, she puts it in the freezer, and she has an after dinner, it’s taste just like a thin mint. So like it, there’s a there’s an histology element to it. Me, she’s German. So it’s not an American histology but like there’s an histology element to it in general about what it tastes like, our coconut bar, which is one of these, like this, hear Cara that tastes like it’s not a candy bar. But if you wanted to make it a candy bar, you know, kind of what it would taste like. It’s got real coconut flakes to it. So I think that that better takes on favorites matter. And I think the last thing I’ll say is this goes back to even my freedom days. My friend Nick Lal, who’s now the founder of samosa, you know, and to Lulu, he’s a brilliant guy. He was the brand manager on the Lay’s when I worked there and he was coordinating or leading the the campaign around the authenticity of your products. It was showing the farmers about where the potatoes came from. So a big company who actually had traceability back to its products. And so we’ve done something in Hawaii, now on the Big Island of Hawaii on Hawaii Island, where it’s called the Kona bar, and it’s made from ingredients that we’ve sourced directly from the island, including a fifth generation coffee farm on these side of Kona called Greenwell farms coffee, incredible, with macadamia nuts from Paula on the southeast coast of Hawaii Island, from Hong Kong company. And then it’s really innovative oil from a pink gamea beam called Lenovo oil from a company called Terra viva, whose founder and I knew each other for 23 years. And that’s from the North Shore of Oahu. So we put all those together, we put it into a bar. And now with all the stuff happening on Maui, we’ve not donating 50% of the proceeds of sales, right back to our partners on the island group called Kupu. That focuses on youth empowerment, entrepreneurship and regenerative agriculture. Three things Hawaii is going to need a lot of these days and a lot of support on. So those kinds of traceability stories, authenticity stories, but they have to be believable, and they have to be actual, you can’t just make it up. And so those kinds of I think, products that also tastes good, that also have good macronutrients. Consumers want to hear more about that, because that gets you to lean into a brand, as opposed to just consumer brand.

Kara Goldin 28:53
Yeah, definitely. I mean, this kind of ties to my next question, how have you gotten the word out about Aloha as well? And you know, you’re fairly new brands, or I should say your rebrand. It’s fairly new, but you’re getting people to try the product in advance, etc. But how are you getting the word out?

Brad Charron 29:17
We’re a lot of people. I mean, honestly, there’s not a huge marketing angle to this, like this is not mass media marketing campaigns. It’s not Field Marketing. I’m not showing up at five, five K’s even post COVID. It goes back to what we were talking about, about having a brand and product that are first impression worthy. If you have a good experience, Kara, and you’re in the category, you’re going to tell your friends about it. We get a lot of that we get a lot of people that write into us and when people email us at caridade [email protected]. Sometimes they get me, God bless them. So I’m answering or I’m answering questions or I’m just having conversation people that allows me that connectivity to know what’s going on with my brand and my product. I hear about firsthand from consumers. That matters to me a lot. I mean, not all opinions are created equal, but I’m interested in that resource back and forth with them. That’s been key. Having the right shelf placement matters. Not just being in a retailer but being ilevel. In a retailer, I call it first nation status. I want to have first nation status with retailers. And look, I may not be the dominant player in their category, like, the answer is I’m not I’m the number one on Thrive Market. But I’m not number one in any other retailer like Kroger, Albertsons, or Publix, like, because they got really big ben, they got cliff and kind of they’re great. But I want to be a call. I want to be like when I want something creative, or incremental. Or I want to know what what’s next, we saw that Under Armour I want to be what’s next I want to be what the kids are wearing, not what the parents are wearing. And so for a brand in our space, like like, like a food brand. That’s been important, the retailer space. And I think just the last thing carrot is we got a really good digital marketing team, they’re finding the right eyeballs at the right price with the right message. And then that creates that’s concentric circle model that I can I efficiently and effectively market my brand without having to go bankrupt doing it without having to take a huge capital raise to do it. Because that’s not sustainable either. So it’s those kinds of channels. But it’s really been driven on the backs of consumers having a good experience with our product and our brand, and wanting to learn more wanting to try more.

Kara Goldin 31:34
So there’s always this internal argument for the wannabe entrepreneurs, right that maybe the the kids graduating from college? Should I just go hang a shingle and launch a product? Or should I go work for a large company and learn a lot? First, I always tell people, it can be done both ways. But you got to have a great idea, right? You got to be able to and you got to have capital. And there’s lots of aspects of this too. But what advice would you give to aspiring entrepreneurs looking to go and start a business, whether it’s a food business or clothing, business or tech business? I mean, based on what you know.

Brad Charron 32:15
I mean, you gotta go in eyes open, right, Kara, I mean, I’m not saying have a backup plan. Because if you have a backup plan, you’re really not in full full way anyways. And I think entrepreneurs have to be, have to be all in. Like, you have to give everything of yourself to a to a venture, because if not you then who like if you’re not willing to run through the wall, if you’re not willing to go to the mattresses, like you can’t really ask someone else to do it for you. You’re right, you got to have a better product, or at least a better product idea, you got to have a higher than not confidence ratio, that it’s going to find an audience. And hopefully you’re competing in spaces with large Tam’s, large total addressable markets. So it’s great to be a small fish in a big pond, it’s bad to be a small fish in a small pond, you’re not going to get the investment, you’re not going to get the resources. And let’s just say, God bless you, you win. Then what like you’re like, like, you’re going to, you’re going to canoe yourself somewhere else pass hard pass. So I mean, I would say you go in wide open, you go in all in, you got to have a better product and better idea. I would also say that you can’t go in only with altruism, you can’t go only with values based. That doesn’t mean I don’t believe in values based, we’ve put values on everything we do, and we stand by it. But you can’t just go in to try to save the world. Like you’re not a nonprofit, you’re a for profit. And so that sustainable business model of having, you know, a product that will make money that you can reinvest in the business, you can’t you know, can we all know this, you can’t reengineer financials, like, there’s not a check coming from somewhere down the street, just wanting to donate money to you. So, it is daunting. It is challenging. It is possible. I mean, you’re a living example of that. We’re hopefully on our way, I have great respect for the guys at chomps. And Peter at our x bar and, and other people who’ve done it before and and put themselves out there to make something that didn’t exist before. And, and so I say God bless him. And it’s a great vocation, I can tell you that you’ll wake up, ready to go every day and you’ll go to bed exhausted every day. And that doesn’t suck.

Kara Goldin 34:43
I love it. Well, thank you so much, Brad for joining us today everyone needs to go and purchase some Aloha bars. As I mentioned, we didn’t get a chance to talk much more about some of the other products that they have to but you can see them on their website. We’ll have all the bow in the show notes. But best of luck, Brad with everything, I think you’ve got a total winner. So this is, this is amazing that you’re spearheading this and really getting the traction that you’re getting. So I’m sure everything is gonna go amazing. So thank you again, Brad, and have a great rest of the week.

Brad Charron 35:22
Thank you care much. Appreciate it.

Kara Goldin 35:24
Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would, please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit and of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my book undaunted, which I share my journey, including founding and building hint. We are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And thanks everyone for listening. Have a great rest of the week, and 2023 and goodbye for now. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book.com and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening