April Wachtel: Founder & CEO of Cheeky Cocktails

Episode 593

On this episode of The Kara Goldin Show, we’re joined by April Wachtel, Founder and CEO of Cheeky Cocktails. With over 25 years in the beverage industry, April has brought her expertise to creating Cheeky Cocktails, a brand that makes it easier to craft professional-grade cocktails at home. April shares her journey from working in various roles within the beverage world to launching her own company, including the challenges she faced and the lessons she’s learned along the way. We also discuss how she’s leveraged her experience and personal brand to build awareness for Cheeky Cocktails. Tune in for insights on entrepreneurship, mixology, and the future of the beverage industry. Now on The Kara Goldin Show.

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Transcript

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. I want to be you. Just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked out, knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control. Control. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs and really, some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Kara Goldin show. I’m super, super thrilled to introduce our next guest, April Wachtel, who is the founder and CEO of Cheeky Cocktails and such a fun, fun brand. So so yummy. April is a veteran in the beverage and hospitality and industry with over 25 years of experience under her belt, she not only was a bartender and beverage director and brand ambassador and consultant for major companies like Bacardi and Diageo, but then in 2018 she decided to launch Cheeky Cocktails, which is professional grade cocktail ingredients designed to simplify the art of great tasting cocktails. So so much to love about this brand. She’s also taught over 12,000 students in cocktail classes, so she is really the human that can teach us all a little bit about not only alcoholic beverages, but also non alcoholic beverages too. They’re absolutely delicious. So very, very excited to have her here to talk a little bit more about her journey and building this incredible brand. And very, very excited. So welcome April.

April Wachtel 2:03
Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here,

Kara Goldin 2:07
very excited to meet you finally and have you on on the show as well. So thank you. So before we dive into Cheeky Cocktails, could you share a bit about your background? I gave a little glimpse into it, but I’d love to hear a lot more about you know, you had this experience, and then obviously you decided to launch a company in an area that you saw was really missing. But can you share a little bit more about it? Yes, of

April Wachtel 2:37
course. So, so I basically grew up in food, beverage and hospitality. I started working in restaurants for a family friend’s bed and breakfast when I was 13 in Vermont, and I kept going at it through college, got into bartending and then into the cocktail world and the craft cocktail world in Boston, when it really started hitting so this is probably 2006 or so. Fast forward to 2011 and I moved to New York City. Got even deeper into the craft cocktail world, and then I started working in the corporate spirits world also. So that’s when I started working with Bacardi and with Diageo, and simultaneously, I was teaching these cocktail classes at Astor center, the Institute of Culinary Education, Haven’s kitchen, Murray’s Cheese and a chef demo kitchen in Philly. So in all of these experiences, I had realized a few things. One is that people care so deeply about hospitality, and every important moment in our lives is over celebrated over food and beverage. So I knew these things were really important. And then when I started transitioning out of my corporate Spirits work, I decided I want to do something that solves a real problem and that makes people feel amazing and can help surprise and delight. And I knew from my experience teaching cocktail classes and frankly, trying to entertain in my own home, that craft cocktails are incredibly overwhelming. So really started noodling on that. I probably did like 10 different versions of of my business before it eventually transitioned into cheeky. But yeah, we launched cheeky into the first wave of the pandemic, March of 2020, and it’s we haven’t had a moment of stress since then.

Kara Goldin 4:19
That’s That’s what. So you originally started thinking about this, and I had 2018 as a date, is that when you kind of started incubating it?

April Wachtel 4:29
So it really, I mean, it’s so interesting, because I think there’s so many founder stories where it’s like one aha moment, and then that was it. And it was, like, very pithy and easy to sort of summarize. In my case, it was like 10 years of learning a little something here and learning a little something here, and then all these elements coming together. So I really started thinking about this. It probably was even the end of 2013 in 2014 that was when I first started taking a step. At, like, what would it look like to run my own business? Or, like, what does it take to take an idea and make it into something of value and then provide enough value such that people want to buy it from you and then keep coming back so versions like one through, let’s say nine or 10 of cheeky were actually it was a cocktail batching and delivery service. And then it became an HPP, or refrigerated cocktail mixer brand that we got into Whole Foods and onto Amazon and all these other things. And then ultimately, in in 2018 that’s when I decided the things that I’m doing for this business now and the product that we have are not working. We need to take this whole thing, about a thing apart and start again from scratch. So that was really the genesis of transitioning into cheeky,

Kara Goldin 5:48
oh, that’s so interesting. So, okay, so Cheeky Cocktails. What is it? I mean? How explain to people who haven’t actually tried it? What will they receive when they’re trying Cheeky Cocktails. Yeah.

April Wachtel 6:04
So we can we describe it a few different ways? I think the most high level way is professional ingredients, professional cocktail ingredients for the home and bar. And really, we’re trying to provide the home bartender with all of the ingredients found by and craft cocktail bars that are normally made from scratch. So we’re talking citrus juices, 100% citrus juices. We’re talking professional syrups that are made to very specific recipes that are found globally behind craft cocktail bars. So one of the sort of factors that led me into starting cheeky is when I was teaching these cocktail classes, and also, when I was throwing these huge 500 to 1000 person cocktail parties as a brand ambassador, you could never source the same ingredients that craft cocktail bartenders use. You could never find them for the home consumer, or you could never find them for the event consumer. And so we’re talking simple syrup, agave syrup, honey, syrup. But there’s specific ways these are prepared such that they mix seamlessly when you’re using the behind the bar. And so I wanted to make sure there was a professional version of this that was made shelf stable for the home. And anytime you’re you don’t have a full bar at your disposal.

Kara Goldin 7:17
So interesting. So when you open up any of the Cheeky Cocktails, you don’t need to actually refrigerate them after they’re opened.

April Wachtel 7:27
So no so they’re shelf stable before opening. So the the process we use it similar to canning. So we don’t use we use zero natural flavors, artificial flavors, preservatives, all that stuff. So we basically just use heat and then some other attributes about the product to ensure shelf stability. But so the juices have a year and a half shelf life if unopened, and the syrups have a two year shelf life if unopened, and then after opening, it’s going to vary by product, but the blanket statement we say is you have about a month if it’s kept refrigerated, got

Kara Goldin 8:02
it so you should definitely, once you open them up, you should stick them in the refrigerator Exactly. Yes, yeah, that’s, that’s good to know for sure. Yeah. So how did you think about restarting your company? I think that this is a very, very interesting idea for people, because I think so many people think something’s not working, maybe you run out of capital. I mean, that happens a lot, or you have a recall, whatever it is that really but you didn’t totally just leave this entire industry right? You knew you were on to something and decided to rebrand it and go a little bit different direction. What was the moment when you said, I’m gonna I’m gonna change course here? And how did you do that?

April Wachtel 8:47
So I love this question, because I think, you know, I speak to a lot of entrepreneurs, both earlier than I am and also later than I am. And I think the question of, like, how, when do you double down or, or when do you know? To take a step back, these are, it’s such a nuanced question and answer. So I love that that you asked this. So there were a billion things that were not working great with the first version of the business. I had no experience ever building a business, running a business like we didn’t have real books, you know, like accounting and bookkeeping for at least three and a half years. I mean, I’m sure you know what I’m talking about, but you probably were in a better position to be at, you know, have aptitude with this. I learned all this like on the fly. So there were so many things that weren’t working, and I pursued the other version of the business, which was called swig and swallow. Even the naming, to be honest, was like also a fun learning experience. Another story for another time, but, but so anyway, so, so there were so many things that were not working. I always had a sort of ongoing laundry list of things that needed to be changed. But because we had never done this before, I didn’t know what a product that worked looked like and behaved like like in the market. And since I come from the restaurant industry where you’re used to just like grinding it out and being incredibly gritty and just putting up with a ton of nonsense, I didn’t know what was like too hard, or was, like, a real sign that the product was not working. So ultimately, that sign came in 2018 and what it was was we had a really massive, terrible production run where we had like 30% breakage, meaning, for anyone who’s not in the industry, we had to completely discard 30% of the product. And I think there had been signals of us getting momentum in previous years, and many of those died, so we were already in kind of like an emotional, like, depressed state, myself and my business partner. And when this happened, I just, I literally was like, This is enough. Like there’s something that’s really, really wrong here, and I really need to think about this and like, what, what I’m going to do about this? So I took, like, two months. I went hiking, I went kayaking. We still, you know, shipped orders, but I just really took a deep Think on it, about, Do I still love this, this business? Do I still love working on this? And do I think that it’s worth my time and it can become a huge business because I’m very competitive, I want to win, and it’s not about beating other people, it’s about delivering something of incredible value. And the answer was yes when I came back, and so I was like, almost none of this, almost none of what we built is going to work for this. And so we’ve got to pull the entire thing apart and put it back together. So

Kara Goldin 11:47
interesting and brave, right? Super bold and yeah, no, I absolutely love it. I think that so often people don’t hear those stories. When I had, I had Tony Robbins on a couple of months ago, and I didn’t realize he had started 114 companies, right? Like, I know and I so we had got into this whole discussion around, you know, when do you shut a company down? Because obviously, he’s not currently running 114 companies, but he has a lot of ideas. He’s not always running them and but he believes that there’s something there, and let’s go try it. And, you know, it’s nice when you have capital behind you that you can go and try these crazy ideas out. But I think it’s fascinating, because we don’t hear about all the, you know, either the failures or the, you know, the shutdowns of companies. As much. You know, we always hear the success stories or the massive failures that were high profile, whatever it is, so I’m just fascinated by it. So, so education, I feel like is such a big part of your business, right? Like you obviously want consumers, I think the core is you’re making it easy and it tastes great, but you still have to, I think people have to understand, like, something’s really hard, and then you’re going to make it easy, and you have to get the word out about the fresh ingredients and all that. How big is education in your in your overall you know, I guess business model, as you think about growing this business,

April Wachtel 13:29
that’s an excellent question. So it is incredibly important. And to be entirely honest, I think we’ve done a terrible job at this. And when I say we, by the way, we’re still a tiny company. It’s like, I’m the only full time employee. I have a bunch of amazing people who are who support as a fractional COO, fractional CFO. I’ve got an executive assistant. I’ve got a small team here at the facility. But to be entirely honest, when I say we’ve not done a great job, I’m these, these two thumbs are pointing directly at me and and, so here’s what I would say. We are about to launch a series of cocktail classes. I just completed a survey where, you know, obviously the people who opted in were already predisposed to want to take a survey about cocktail classes. But there’s a lot of there’s a lot of interest. I got a lot of great data on specifically what topics our existing consumers are interested in learning about, and the ways in which they feel we can deliver that to them best. So for example, we will be offering an a la carte offering, so you can purchase a class at a time if you’d like. But we’re also going to be launching a monthly subscription cocktail kit. When you purchase that subscription, you will also have access to the entire database of cocktail classes. So, oh, I

Kara Goldin 14:48
love it. Yeah, I’m

April Wachtel 14:49
real. I’m so excited. And again, it’s just being totally transparent. It’s been a matter of bandwidth on my part, of like, being able to distance myself from, you know. Ops and raising money and all this other stuff to be able to focus on this other piece that I love. But I think it’s going to be great because we already do. We provide recipes, we provide some videos, but I think it’s very clear that people want a deeper experience as well, and are really happy and excited to pay for it too?

Kara Goldin 15:20
Yeah, no, I definitely think that that’s so so key. So I was gonna ask you, what role does community play? And I really think that you’ll start to build up so much more of that community through these courses too. So, right, that’s absolutely terrific. When do you think it’s gonna launch?

April Wachtel 15:40
So the so I decided, because I’m a because I’m a super perfectionist, I just need to get one up and just get one up and out. So it’s going to be in the next 30 days.

Kara Goldin 15:50
I think that’s that’s awesome. So you’ve worked with major brands like Bacardi and Diageo. So how did that influence your approach to creating and kind of marketing Cheeky Cocktails? I mean, they’re not really, they’re not in that business that you’re in, yet, they could be incredible partners of yours. But you also obviously have studied Bacardi and Diageo and sort of what they’ve done, and you know, the brands that they have under their Halo two, but I’m curious like, how has that helped you to think about building your own brand?

April Wachtel 16:28
So one aspect is, in the past, so cheeky has been around now four and a half years, I would say, in the past seven years, again, during which I was working on, spigot and swallow, but I was, I was consulting for Diageo. Simultaneously, I learned a lot about what we in the industry called premiumization. In specifically with the spirits industry, it’s people are drinking less, but they’re drinking better. Also have seen some, you know, huge burgeoning trends around non alcoholic consumption, meaning people wanting cocktails they can drink socially, or beverages they can drink socially. Work doesn’t include alcohol, or it’s very low ABV alcohol by volume. So I think my exposure to those like major major trends showcased to me or made it obvious to me that if people are investing in high quality products, and if we’re seeing this, you know, contemporary craft cocktail Renaissance continuing to become a global phenomenon and expand, and there’s absolutely no sign of that disappearing, and it’s, you know, we’re like, 30 years in unto This trend, people eventually are going to really care about the mixer products that they incorporate into these drinks as well, and obviously, with your with your entire background, with hint, people care about the ingredients they put into their bodies. And so it seemed to me that there was a huge white space around a better tasting, better functioning and more esthetically pleasing premium brand in the mixer space. And so that was really, I think it just gave me a lot of confidence to say, No, I know the opportunities here, as opposed to just being like, I think this is what’s going on, based on my own experience.

Kara Goldin 18:19
What’s been the most surprising lesson you’ve learned? I mean, you had another company you decided to shut that down and and sort of pivot into Cheeky Cocktails, but the overall cocktail industry overall is there, is there been anything that’s been kind of surprising to you in in I totally agree with you. I think people haven’t really focused on kind of the ingredients and some of these drinks, there’s they’re definitely starting to I think that people taste the difference, right? And yeah, these drinks, and especially when you go somewhere that is much more mass as compared to sort of the boutique, especially in big cities, you notice this, and I think it’s starting to come into the home. But I’m curious what else has been really surprising to you, not only from maybe from consumers, but also in building the company.

April Wachtel 19:18
I would actually say that consumers get it better than, let’s say, business people with a lot of experience in corporate spirits. And that sounds like a really weird statement, I think because the impression that, you know, when a consumer approaches something, they don’t have all these preconceived notions and like, intelligence necessarily about this specific sector. And so when, when consumers, or, you know, retailers, find our product, they just get excited, because they’re like, oh, it’s like, it’s really cute. Like, it’s it’s minimalist, it’s colorful, it’s like, it looks great with my assortment. But I would say that it was a little bit surprising. Me that it, it took a lot more like proof points for professionals, necessarily, to say, Oh, this is a huge opportunity. And I think part of that is because it’s contrasted with, like, the, you know, $100 billion spirits market, where they’re saying, Oh, well, which is, like a, you know, if I’m going to look at all of spirits in the US versus mixers like which is the bigger opportunity. So that’s probably something to do with it, but, but the unadult, the unadulterated, like excitement from consumers is, is very cool. And was, it was a surprise. Honestly, I didn’t know if they’d like it. And then I would say, in terms of business building itself, I think as a as like a product founder, if something’s not working great, which it oftentimes isn’t. You know, this entire founding and running in companies about problem solving, but my instinct is always to say, what’s the product? It’s the product like there’s something that’s just not right about the product. But what I have been learning over the past couple of years is like, Oh no, you can have a totally inferior product in phenomenal marketing, and you can crush it, and vice versa. You can have a phenomenal product and terrible marketing, and nobody knows about your product and nobody buys your product. So that’s been really interesting for me, having to, like, being forced to learn about all of the different marketing approaches that are available to us. And it’s, it’s honestly one of my favorite things to be learning at this point. Yeah,

Kara Goldin 21:26
it’s so it’s so, so interesting. So one of the things that I, I think you know is very helpful is, obviously, you’ve had, you’ve had consumers who have written to you who love your product. As I was mentioning, my my college age son was adoring your product, and not just for the alcohol side, but also the non alcoholic side. But he was, you know, really, really enjoying it. But when, on those days when life is a little bit tough, it’s always those your network, right the mentors, you spoke about Jackie, who had been on our podcast, and Scott who introduced us. But are there what, what have been some of the most valuable resources, people, or just resources overall, that have been really helpful to you and kind of being able to build and and really pick yourself back up on those days when being an entrepreneur is tough. So, yeah, I think that that’s, you know, having that network out there is really, really important. But I’m curious, like, how have you kind of been able to manage that?

April Wachtel 22:40
Yeah. Well, what I mean, one of my favorite resources, we actually talked a little bit about offline earlier, but one of my favorite resources is how I built this, and you were a guest on that podcast. And I think just hearing the the range of ways, the range of issues that other founders have experienced the range of feelings they’ve had towards them and the range of ways that they have resolved their issues and persisted through, I mean unfathomable issues that that’s always effective for me, yeah, and it’s funny there. And I’m not going to say which one it is, because I don’t want anyone to get the wrong impression, but there’s wrong impression. But there’s one where the the entrepreneur goes through, I mean, like 15 years of of hell, oh, excuse me, sorry, 15 years of really bad things,

Kara Goldin 23:31
all good, all good. Um,

April Wachtel 23:33
and I in my darkest moments, I go back and listen to that one, because I’m like, if, he got through this, I can get through anything. Yeah, I love so, yeah. So that’s a huge one. And then, and then talking to people like yourself, obviously, you know, entrepreneurs, I think, are very generous with their time. Um, there’s like, a lot of empathy and like, willingness to help other people who who are going through similar stuff. So that’s, resource number two,

Kara Goldin 24:02
no, I love it. I think that that’s that’s a great response to that. Because I think that the more you can find people who have not been through exactly what you’ve been through, it doesn’t even matter what industry it’s in. It’s really just knowing that something hard was in front of them. I love, yeah, how you talked about problem solving, because that’s really what, you know, creating a new company is all about, right? You you hopefully. I think most great entrepreneurs are, you know, seeing a hole in the industry that they decide to, you know, quit their job and give up most of their life to, you know, go and do this, and it’s, you know, it’s a lot, and I don’t think anybody ever recognizes how hard it really is. In fact, if we knew how hard it was, I don’t think most people who are sane enough would would do it right. And I think that that’s, you know, it’s such a. Key, key point for sure. So where do you envision Cheeky Cocktails evolving in the coming years? You’ve, you guys have come out. How many SKUs you guys have now?

April Wachtel 25:13
Oh, God, I don’t want to talk about this. No, we have. So we have. We have had nine flavors in three sizes. However, we just launched two and we’re launching a third, limited edition SKU. They may not all be limited edition SKU, so we’ll have 12 flavors, but we’re starting off in one size for those flavors. So I mean, ultimately, and again, this is just me being transparent. I am, like the cocktail world, for anyone who’s who’s not so familiar, it’s you can there’s 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of signature cocktails invented all around the world. However, there’s really probably a top 20 that really moved the needle globally. And so I have been trying to figure out, like, how big of a footprint do we want, how feasible it is, like, how many SKUs can we have where it doesn’t negatively affect people’s recall about the brand, but it does actually do what we’re trying to do, which is provide, like, the core mixers that you need to make, all the top cocktails you would want to make. So I’m really sussing that out right now. I think what this probably looks like is it probably looks like five, five flavors, like in brick and mortar retail, where we actually try to scale that, and then all the other flavors and all and all the other sizes are available on our website. And again, various of these, we have said that they’re limited edition, and so we have the option to keep them, of course, but we can also just fold them in and out where they’re live for a month or a couple months, or something like that, because we do want to be providing new, exciting things for our customers as well.

Kara Goldin 27:00
Yeah, yeah, I think that’s really smart. I mean, getting to a core mix, I think, is really, really critical. So sometimes I tell the story a lot that, you know, we discontinued some skews that we found were kind of sitting around longer on the shelf. It’s not that they were terrible, but it was, you know, they weren’t necessarily the, you know, top skews, and we actually, I think this has changed slightly, but the we had certain flavors that did great on the west coast but didn’t do great on the east coast. So I feel like, and I feel like the consumer has changed a lot, like it used to be. Things in LA definitely worked in San Francisco, and they didn’t work on the East Coast, in Boston and New York. And I think it’s become a lot, you know, less apparent in in terms of flavor profiles. I don’t know. I think, as the world has expanded, maybe, but, but I think putting them on and, and sort of special flavors online. I mean, that’s, you know, that’s definitely a great idea, I think, for for your product too, I could totally see that or, or doing like, you know, seasonal ones, like, we hint out a peppermint that comes, yeah, seasonally for the holidays. So I could love to see that that happening. So reflecting last question, reflecting on your journey, what’s the most important lesson? I think you’ve learned so much right over the last 10 years, I mean, about business and life, and I feel like you’ve gotten your MBA plus in entrepreneurship, for sure. But what if you had one lesson that you want to leave with people? What would it be about just your journey?

April Wachtel 28:53
I think two things. One is doing hard things. Makes doing, makes doing hard things in the future so much easier. Yeah, and you build a tremendous amount of confidence by doing these things, so don’t avoid the hard stuff. And then the second thing, and this, this is very specifically for for entrepreneurs, but I think the most valuable skill I’ve learned as an entrepreneur is how to self soothe and also how to surround myself with the right people and energy and activities that allow me to feel supported and come back excited every single Day, because every business that I’ve seen go out of business, and, you know, I have a lot of friends whose businesses have failed, every single time it’s the person runs out of emotional energy. Because there’s basically always a way you can fight to keep the thing alive, but you have to be excited. You. About coming back every

Kara Goldin 30:01
day. Yeah, yeah. I totally agree that was one of the things that in the interview with Tony Robbins, he said, You know, when you’re not interested in doing it anymore, then you shouldn’t, because, right, the business will be affected. And I think that that’s so true. So really, really, great advice so April Wachtell, founder and CEO of Cheeky Cocktails, we’ll have all the info in the show notes, but everyone needs to go to your website, look out for Cheeky Cocktails, and, more importantly, purchase it. And I love it. What’s your favorite one? I forgot to ask you that your favorite cocktail mixer,

April Wachtel 30:39
the favorite cocktail or the favorite ingredient that we ingredient, and I should say so it’s either our espresso syrup, which you just mix two two parts, yeah, of your your spirit of choice, or your non alcoholic spirit of choice, to one part of the espresso syrup, and it makes a bar quality, Delicious Espresso Martini, either that or the honey ginger syrup. It’s just so versatile. It’s great in tea. It’s great with seltzer. It’s great in penicillin cocktails with scotch and lemon. And it’s just, I, every time you know, we make a batch, I’m just like chugging it down. So I

Kara Goldin 31:17
love it. That’s so great. Well, thank you again, April, and thanks for making a terrific product and and best of luck to you.

April Wachtel 31:27
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun.

Kara Goldin 31:30
Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit. And, of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast, just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms. At Kara Goldin, I would love to hear from you too. So feel free to DM me, and if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal, best selling book undaunted, where I share more about my journey, including founding and building. Hint, we are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks for listening, and goodbye for now. You.

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