Craig Mullaney – Partner at Brunswick Group and Author of The Unforgiving Minute

Craig Mullaney 0:00
Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is the ability to act. In a terrifying environment where you don’t have all the answers, you don’t know how it’s going to work out.

Kara Goldin 0:10
I am only willing to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. I want to make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked out knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Kara golden show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders will talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. Its Kara golden from the Kara golden show. And I’m so excited to have my next guest here who is not only a guest, but also a friend. We’ve been trying to get him on the show for some time. And just so so excited to have him here. We have Craig Molina here who is a partner at the Brunswick group. We are so thrilled to welcome him to our show. But let me just tell you a little bit about Craig because it doesn’t stop even though that’s an amazing, amazing role that you’re in but it doesn’t stop there. So Craig is a US Army veteran and a celebrated author and a tech entrepreneur as well. And Craig’s career has spanned the military government and the private sector serving in distinguished capacities across all of his roles. And as a US army captain Craig lead an infantry platoon stationed on the Afghanistan Pakistan border, earning a Bronze Star Army Commendation Medal and the combat Infantry Badge for his service. And he recounted his tour of duty in the unforgettable memoir, the unforgiving minute, a soldier’s education, which the Washington Post recognized as one of the best books of 2009. And the military time cited as one of the best books of that decade. And I have to say, when I knew that Craig was an author I met him at when he was at Facebook. And I remember reading the book, and I could not put it down. I’m not just saying that I think I told you that Craig, I was like cricket said, Oh, yeah, I’m an author, too. But when I read it, I was absolutely blown away on so many levels. And just a couple of more little tidbits he preg served in the Obama administration at us aid overseeing venture funding for technology solutions in the developing world. And she also worked in the Pentagon. And I mean, what Haven’t you done prior to this? Seriously, just so many amazing thing joining the Department of Defense as principal director for Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the Central Asia policy, and I mean, just so so much. And then also, as I just mentioned, where I met Craig was at when he was at Facebook, but he was also leading strategy and operations prior to that, a company called Ustream. Some of you might be familiar with that. And really, really amazing. I mean, you’ve just spanned, like, how old are you? 80 or something. Done, it’s just absolutely crazy. So anyway, we’re going to talk about all of that. And he’s now a partner at the Brunswick group, which is an advisory firm specializing in business critical issues. So enough of me talking. I’m so excited. Craig to have you here, though. Awesome to be with you care. Very cool. So tell us a bit about you’re ready for this question. So hardest one you’ll get today about little Craig. So tell us tell us what, who was Craig who was kid Craig,

Craig Mullaney 4:24
I was probably an overly serious child. I spent a lot of my time in my own head, sort of voracious reader. Lived in a pretty rural part of Rhode Island. oldest of four kids, Irish working class family. Mother’s nurse, dad worked at the utility company. I spent a lot of time out. out in the woods, a lot of imaginative play with my siblings and friends the neighborhood. The wrestling was my sport. really interested in that challenge sort of one on one in the ring where you really have no excuses and no escape. By sort of taught me to stand up in the face of adversity and kind of find that hidden strength when you sort of run up against your limits.

Kara Goldin 5:17
So interesting. So you, you went to West Point? I did, how did you get there?

Craig Mullaney 5:23
I had never given any thought to a military career or service Academy until I went on a road trip in high school with a with a classmate, who happened to be a military brat. And we visited New York City and we need a cheap place, or free place to stay. We’re 17 year olds, we stayed with one of his family friends at West Point, it turned out this was the Director of Admissions house, it was all a trek. I mean, I don’t think I was being, you know, recruited per se. But I just started walking around the campus, I recognized that this was different than any of the other universities that I had visited. I thought a really compelling proposition I wanted to learn more about and I followed through, I applied and a year later, I was a new cadet at West Point.

Kara Goldin 6:14
What surprised you about West Point when you got there?

Craig Mullaney 6:18
When I saw it for the first time. I guess what was so different was how earnest in the cadets, we like there is no irony. That West Point, very little cynicism, I found that, you know, when the cadets talked about service, about loyalty, about integrity, they really meant it, and then inspired me as a 17 year old who had yet really found his purpose. knew I didn’t know what shape that service would take for me, but it aligned very much with, you know, my high school and my family value system. I went, I was at a Christian Brothers High School. And, you know, there’s a lot of talk about selfless service. And I just, I didn’t know exactly how that was going to manifest itself for me. You know, arriving there as an 18 year old, sort of a new cadet, you go through cadet basic training. It’s it is a four year 47 months leadership development Academy. But the first thing you have to learn in being a leader is how to be a follower. And that’s that whole first year is about learning to follow, and learning to be a teammate. And being observant of the leaders above you, in a way is going to shape who you become as a leader. And I just think that’s a really special opportunity for a young man or woman very early in their career to be able to have that conscientious leadership laboratory to participate in.

Kara Goldin 8:03
That’s so interesting, actually, just thinking on what you’re saying. So why do you think it’s hard for for people to do that? I mean, do you think everybody wants to be a leader? And especially at a place like West Point, do you think that there’s a lot of people that come in with, you know, bravado and, you know, wanting to kind of be that? Or is I mean, why is it so hard to actually follow? And maybe not be the, you know, the the wisest in the room in some way? Right.

Craig Mullaney 8:35
Yeah, I mean, they, so they’re definitely selecting for leadership attributes. So I remember distinctly one of the first times my new cadet Platoon, no, there may be about 40 of us new cadets, and there are some cadre who are in charge, and we you get into formation, so you’re in lines of 10. And there is this exercise where like, raise your hand, if you were valedictorian, you know, 70% of the hands go up, raise your hand, if you were a team captain, raise your hand if you were student council president. And it was, like, literally everyone in this group had had some kind of leadership role in high school, and that’s why they were there. But you know, you, you sort of, you’re the top of the heap as a high school senior. And now you’re at the bottom. And you’re an entirely different culture and a different domain. And there’s so much to learn, and you can’t learn unless you’re humble. Right. And I think that’s, that is a lesson I’ve taken with me and all these various roles I’ve had in my career is you know, starting from a position of humility and confidence that you can learn in any environment. But it really humility that you don’t have all the answers and you have something to learn from every single person you meet.

Kara Goldin 9:54
Yeah, I think that’s so true. I mean, that’s very, very different situation. But I think that is Really what got me excited about even jumping into the beverage industry as crazy as that sound where I came from Tech, and, you know, I was youngest Vice President at AOL, I was one of the few females, you know, it was at that level and, and then suddenly, I, I get all excited about this whole world of beverages that, you know, really stemmed from me trying to solve a problem for myself around diet sweeteners, and getting myself healthy became I became passionate about it, but I didn’t know how to get there. And so, you know, the idea of going into Whole Foods and saying, How do I get a product on the shelf? You know, they’d say, Well, what did you do before and I’m like, I don’t know, I was, like, intact, but I wasn’t. But I was used to being a tech executive I was used to be, and that was my identity. And I got really excited about walking into an industry. And, you know, figured out a couple of months later that I was starting an entirely new category. So I really had no idea what I was talking about, and I loved being in a space of, you know, kind of being a kind of being a leader and a follower on the same day where I was, like, you know, don’t look at me, I have no idea what I’m doing, you know, what is like, how do I find a distributor? Do you have a phone number? I mean, I had no idea what I was doing. And, and I think that there is that humility. And you know, and especially when you’ve kind of been top of your game, your ability to actually go down to the bottom and learn and be in a learning position is really exciting. But I think it takes like a mindset shift where, you know, people, you have to be conscious to do it. It’s pretty scary, right? Like, what if you look terrible? I mean, you don’t want to be like the low man on the totem pole and be stepped on. Right? I mean, I’m sure you see that all the time there, that it’s attitude starts coming out all and it really stems from fear more. Anyway, I think it’s it’s such a, it’s really, really interesting what you’re talking about. So I have to assume, obviously, so you left West Point, you had a few steps along the way. And now you went to that, that little school over in the UK and and then what was the moment when you figured out that you were actually going into the military now, I mean, you were in the military, but now it was like game, gametime at this point.

Craig Mullaney 12:28
I mean, it became real. For me. I mean, like, I think many of my classmates on 911. So I was in graduate school, at the time, I was traveling in New Zealand, and I was shopping for groceries at a local convenience store. When I saw the towers fall on the little TV behind the clerk. I was the only American in this small town, on the North Island of New Zealand. And I knew at that moment, that, you know, I was gonna have to cash this blank check that I was, you know, this, raising my hand and volunteering to serve my country was going to really mean something. And two years later, I found myself in Afghanistan as a platoon leader, with an opportunity to, you know, make a small dent, you know, against a resurgent al Qaeda and Taliban force just across the border inside Pakistan. But I started, I knew at nine on 911, that there would be an American military response and that I would, you know, I’d be honored and privileged and lucky to have an opportunity to contribute to that fight.

Kara Goldin 13:46
Wow. So your book, the unforgiving minute, a soldier’s education. So what inspired you to write this? I mean, let’s back up what so I mean, a lot happened. But what was kind of the core, you know, without giving away too much, I mean, tell us about the major piece,

Craig Mullaney 14:06
the real focus of the book. And the unforgiving minute, which I’m referencing in the title is September 29 2003. I’m platoon leader of a platoon of 25 men in the midst of a very complex ambush, just inside that Afghan Pakistan border. And in the opening salvos of this attack on our unit, Private First Class Evan O’Neill in my platoon was shot and killed. I hear this conveyed to me from my squad leader over the radio. And, you know, that’s the moment where you sort of you earn your salute. What decisions do you make as a leader under those circumstances? And, you know, the book is ultimately a reflection not just on how one leads and that very specific, military, unforgiving minute, but no more broadly, every person in their career is gonna come to one of those pivotal moments where you have to lead. What is it about your education, your career, your experiences, that prepares you to answer that question, what do we do now. And that’s what this book was a reflection on. That’s why the subtitle is the education of a leader. You know, there’s a lot that you can learn in the classroom. But there’s so much more that you’re going to learn outside the classroom. And I was writing the book very much with the audience of my students in mind, I was teaching at the Naval Academy, my brother, West Point, class of 2007, was about to graduate. And I asked, What would I want to know, if I were in their shoes? Could I help them avoid some of the costly mistakes that I made? As a young lieutenant? And more broadly, could I help bridge that gap in understanding between those of you know, war, a military uniform, and the great majority of Americans and otherwise, who haven’t? Many people have expressed? Their I think authentic, gratitude and respect and acknowledgement of military service, you hear this in the thank you for your service. I said, Well, what’s the next step? Understand that service? You know, what does it What did it mean? What does it mean, for so many, you know, at this point that 10s of 1000s of Americans who served in the US wars represented the United States overseas. So I hope, you know, I think maybe for you this, this helps sort of clarify that experience in some way. And I, I get a lot of correspondence from people who feel this is help them understand a loved one who’s worn a uniform better, it’s helped them start a conversation with a veteran and deepen their understanding as to that next step and gratitude.

Kara Goldin 17:22
Well, I’ve gifted the book to many people, I think I mentioned to you a friend of my son’s when is at West Point, and I had gifted it to him and a few other people who, you know, were considering going so it’s definitely, it’s definitely kind of bridged and talked about a conversation too, because I think there are a lot of people who don’t come from a military family who do want to serve and, and are, you know, excited. And I think sometimes those people, what I find is they feel a little alone, right? They don’t know, you know, who can I talk to about this? What What does it really like, right? It’s sort of, I mean, it probably the idea of, you know, now I get to have a gun or whatever that I mean, not just sort of goes away, right? As soon as you start to really think about all the different steps, I think your book does an incredible job of just describing that it is really a time of sometimes you’ve got to show up. And sometimes you’ve got to lead maybe when you didn’t expect it right, that this is what you’ve got to do. And, and I think more than anything, I mean, it just is. I mean, huge respect on so many levels. I after, you know, I I read it and had a more clear understanding. But also, I think it really speaks to to, you know, when you’re confronted with fears, and we’ve all got fears, you know, clearly your situation, I think was on another level of fear. It must have been incredibly scary. But did you sit there on that at that moment? And actually think, like, was it the most scared you’d ever been? Or sometimes I feel like when you’re in a super scary situation, you don’t even thinking back on it? You think, oh, wow, that was really scary. But did you know you were scared? Or did you say it’s time to not be complacent, and instead go do something?

Craig Mullaney 19:16
It’s terrifying to be in a firefight? Yeah. And your vulnerability is so obvious when you’re in a situation where you already have men who’ve been wounded or killed. You cannot help but be cognizant of your own mortality. And you know what another author called the fierce fierce geometry of chance that a mortar lands five feet away from me and my radio man. It doesn’t explode. Why? Why in that one instance, was I lucky, but you know, private O’Neill wasn’t. But so much of the training. Up to that point is about in the face of fear. In the face of chaos, having the clarity of mind in the sort of muscle memory and the instincts to act, you know, to act and move with, you know, courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is the ability to act in a terrifying environment where you don’t have all the answers, and you don’t know how it’s going to work out.

Kara Goldin 20:27
It’s so interesting. So I always think about too, that obviously, you you have people in your situation coming from all over the US all walks of life, right? You, maybe you don’t even know what some of their family backgrounds are, certainly their education levels, and, and then all of a sudden, it’s like, you’re the boss. And they’re not right, and they need to listen, and they need to trust, right, especially when you’re faced with the, you know, craziness that you that you all were facing, how do you? I mean, where do you even start to lead in that situation? Because it’s not just about, you know, going to the office and turning on the computer or whatever, right? Like, there, there’s a lot there and a lot of trust, and you have to trust them that they’re going to be supporting and protecting and all of that, like, how do you I don’t know, how do you get through the honeymoon phase quickly, and start to really build that

Craig Mullaney 21:25
I took command of this Blitz him in about six months before we deploy it. And that train up for deployment, and that that’s the time where you build trust, you know, impart its trust during training, so that when you’re new, and you’re out rehearsing an ambush or response to an ambush, you know, that’s an environment, you can take the time to explain why left and not right, know why this particular decision and not another decision. And sort of explaining your thought process and talking through that, during what we would always have an after action review, following any training event. that builds confidence, because I like when you’re in the heat of the moment, in a real combat situation, you can’t blow whistle, take a timeout, and you know, and overanalyze something, I have to make a call as a leader. And I need to know that, you know, a squad leader is a platoon sergeant underneath me are going to execute those decisions without, without hesitation. And they have, they will do that if you’ve built that confidence and trust in a training environment. And the other half of that is, you know, what it means to be a very human empathetic, empathetic and connected leader, where it’s you, this becomes your family. You know, we ate slept, patrols together, you know, hundreds of times, I in many ways feel closer to those brothers I served with in Afghanistan than, you know, my closest friends outside of that environment. As a, you know, some of that you’ve got to have a vulnerability and a willingness to share your biographical details on who you are. And you’ve got to be genuinely interested in the people who are serving underneath you their own circumstances, you know, whether it’s a senior enlisted, who’s got kids back home, you know, that’s, that’s on their mind. They have a financial situation that they’re grappling with. Now, maybe they have a friend in another unit who’s been killed or wounded? No, you are as an army platoon leader, you were a coach, a mentor, a tactician, a therapist, a financial adviser, a social worker. That’s what makes it such a mix. It’s such an amazing developmental experience in the young, young person’s life.

Kara Goldin 24:01
So interesting. So you transitioned into the public service after being in the military was, was it tough to go from military background into kind of the public service? I mean, was it? Or was it easier? In many ways? Like I would think, like the structure? I mean, did it just did you know, being in a public environment, like Was it a lot less structured, I would imagine, but also Was it hard, you know, for you, to

Craig Mullaney 24:32
me. So I think there were sort of a two jobs. So I made the initial job was from the army to the, you know, the 2008 Obama campaign. And then the other job was from politics into entrepreneurial life. 10 days after I left the army separated from the army, I was in Chicago, on the Obama campaign staff. There is so much that felt familiar I mean, you’re on a campaign, there are battleground states, you are fighting for every vote. There’s an air game and a ground game. And they so much of the language is militarized. There’s a similar camaraderie, focus on a singular goal. You know, so on the one hand, and superficially, there’s a lot of similarity, and it’s a very exciting environment. And we had a number of veterans on that campaign as volunteers and staff. And, you know, I think we’ve we fit in, and it was not as difficult to jump as you might think, in other respects, language, I had to learn a whole new vocabulary, I had to think about how I would translate some very specific technical knowledge I had about the military for communicating to a broader audience for, you know, for the candidate and for the campaign. I think that the harder job was going from DC to Silicon Valley, and I know you’ve been in both both worlds. But you know, you’re you feel like a very, quote, unquote, powerful person, as a mid level bureaucrat, and a federal government agency, and the whole world seems to revolve around the decisions that are made in Washington, DC or the Pentagon. And then suddenly, I’m in California, and, you know, almost no interest in my experiences or national security policy, you know, it’s a different, very different kind of bubble,

Kara Goldin 26:35
because most people didn’t know what it was, right? They were like, hey, Craig, let’s go grab a cup of coffee, right? Or hints, right? Right. I mean, that that is interesting. And, you know, these are smart people, right, but probably not a lot of them spend any time in Washington.

Craig Mullaney 26:54
But you find it, you know, when you start looking, you find a lot of very veterans who are in prominent executive roles at top Silicon Valley companies, you know, CFOs, and CEOs at big companies, the CFO of Pinterest, the former CEO of Twitter, they are our military veterans. And I think that they were able, and I found some degree of success in that world, because, you know, you can, you’re comfortable in ambiguity. You can make a plan in the midst of chaos, you’re able to operate independently. You know, there’s a misconception that the military is a hierarchy. But in an operational setting, I was 200 miles away from my boss. I had to make decisions in the moment, day to day, on my own best judgment. And I think that is a sort of a similar attribute required of an entrepreneur, Silicon Valley or start any small business.

Kara Goldin 28:00
Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, I think that it’s just, I think your background is, I mean, so valuable to have inside of an organization too, because I bet people gravitate towards that, too, especially when they don’t know what to do. And, and, you know, certainly in the last 15 months, I think it was, you know, a crazy scary time, unprecedent and time where even the people who felt like they knew how to lead, you know, there were, there was a lot of complacency, particularly amongst entrepreneurs that I know, that were just, you know, didn’t know how to evaluate even what was going on. And it really was spinning out of control, especially in people’s minds. And I think it’s a, you know, for me, in particular, it was, it was a time where we’re an essential product. So we actually are required during times of a pandemic, which obviously, I’d never been through to continue working. So while everybody else was sheltering in place, we were I was leading a team saying, actually, here’s your hand sanitizers and gloves and good thing we have the, you know, and 95 mass leftover from the California fire fires in the, you know, in the warehouse, because we’re gonna get them all out to you tomorrow. And I mean, we had a few people in our team, who obviously feel incredibly comfortable with me say, Are you are you trying to kill us? And, you know, I mean, it was it was a lot, you know, and and it was the only way that I know how to lead and I’ve never actually been in the military, but I would imagine it’s, it’s similar in some ways is to actually go out with the team and actually see what was going on. And so, you know, they were scared, they were operating out of fear. They, you know, didn’t really want to go in that direction. And I think I couldn’t sit in my office. office and do the work. I had to, you know, put on my Lululemon pants and hidden jacket and I went out, you know, and I went into target and I started figuring out, you know, how can I make my team feel safer, right? Ask the manager, how to if it was okay, if I came in, they open at seven, Can we come in? Can I send my team minutes exam? You know it when no one’s in here and no one’s been here for 12 hours? I don’t know, hopefully the virus won’t still be here. It might. But I mean, I think that that was the best thing that I could do. And I offered that to, you know, the team. And I think what I was able to do at a higher level was actually look at strategy. And I think to what you’ve said a couple of times is, as a leader asking what can we do, and not staying complacent. And we even had a friend of mine, Alison Levine, who has scaled Everest a couple of times, she talked about not staying complacent and continuing to move and how, you know, she missed a giant glacier almost falling on her head if she would have stayed still. And she said she’s learned it every time like you have to keep moving. And if you stop, and you freak yourself out, then you know, that’s where the trouble begins. And I think it it’s true. And, you know, as a climber as a in the military, and you know, running your company, it’s like when you don’t know what to do. It’s very rare that you sit there and do nothing, right? I think,

Craig Mullaney 31:37
yeah, it’s this start with a list, right? Like, what else can I learn about the situation right? Now? What else can I do? It’s, it’s, you’re continuously problem solving.

Kara Goldin 31:49
So, so true. So you went to Silicon Valley, you became a leading expert on digital and social media, and you know, that that could be a session in and of itself? Of course, how do you think and maybe this is like even a session two, but how do you even since you’ve left the military, when you when you think about, you know, cyber security and digital and social media? And like, how do you think that even, you know, ground battles have changed, or I mean, as it become trickier, you know, for just the world, I mean, I feel like there’s just a lot more communication, even in the last 20 years, clearly than what was going on, even when 911

Craig Mullaney 32:40
where the operational security has changed a lot. Right. So, I mean, even I was in Afghanistan the first time in 2003, I think we had one satellite phone for the bass, right. And you could call anyone anywhere in the world. And I remember being on the phone with my best friend. And as I’m gonna have to call you back rocket just landed in our perimeter. I hung up, and I think that just blew his mind. Like, I just got a phone call with you and a rock, you’re under rocket attack. Oh, my God. Yeah, that sense progressed, where? I mean, you, you know, you have combatants in Iraq and Afghanistan with cell phones of email, you know, always on email access, who were in continuous communication with their families and loved ones back home. I mean, how different is that from, you know, even 2025 years ago, you know, waiting two weeks for a letter to get back to a loved one. So, I mean, that creates challenges, I mean, you there still needs to be a certain degree of self censorship and what gets communicated back home because it could put your, your buddies at risk, in an inadvertent way. Technology has changed so rapidly, in that context, that ability to sort of look over the horizon via drones. I mean, this was cutting edge in 2003. You know, now this is, you know, as a matter of course, you wouldn’t think of doing an operation without that kind of intelligence.

Kara Goldin 34:13
It’s wild to think about it. Yeah. And it just keeps getting, you know, more and more complex. I think, as you as you think about it, it just it seems like technology has just sped up and more and more even in you know, the last few years so it’s really really interesting to think back on it. So when you look back on on your life, I always think it’s it’s much more fun to you know, look backwards and and I was just on a podcast talking about a I love the Steve Jobs, saying of you know, the dots eventually connect and it it really like is helpful to me, even when I look back on challenging times and think about it. Maybe I couldn’t actually talk A beautiful ribbon around why that scary stuff happened or why that bad thing happened. But what would you How would you sum up? You know, kind of, like, what is your quote, when you look back on on your life? Like what have you learned?

Craig Mullaney 35:15
I’ll explain that. But I think it’s this principle or mindset of it’s not about you. I was going through Ranger School, just sort of one of the toughest endurance tests and military training. We’ve been operating for 24 hours straight, our unit, sort of come to it, and have the mission for that day. And we’re sort of setting in patrol ways to get some rest before the next day. Half of us get assigned to go to sleep the other half, we’re gonna stay awake, and then you’ll sort of take turns through the night. Yeah, woke up about 10 minutes later to the sound of gunfire. We all start firing off into the perimeter thinking We’re under attack. And the Ranger instructor sort of calls a ceasefire. And it becomes obvious that what happened was the guys who were supposed to stay awake, the Ranger students fell asleep. And so the instructor snuck into our perimeter, you know, pulled the trigger on our own machine gun and swooped us into a false counter attack. So we get our punishment was to march all through the all through the night with these 70 pound rucksacks exhausting after an exhausting day, and then lined us up and asked us one by one, why we were at Ranger School. And what guys like I didn’t have a choice. my platoon sergeant made me. I know another I’m here for the challenge. Yeah, always wanted to be a ranger. And the instructor, he was not happy with any of those answers. They said Rangers, it’s not about you, this training is about the soldiers that you’re going to lead. So I don’t care if you’re sick, or tired or hungry or miss your girlfriend, you’re here to train, so you can be better leaders. And I mean, obviously, that obtains in a military context, it makes sense. But I’ve tried to remind myself not always successfully, in a variety of roles, that it’s not about you, right? Like your company is not about you care, right? I mean, it’s the customers, the communities, the employees, totally, and I just went, I have so much more motivation to do the work I need to do. When I don’t have when I’m not thinking about myself first. I think that’s something I’m glad I was taught that 20 years ago in my career, other people learned that a bit later. But it’s so liberating, and inspiring.

Kara Goldin 37:54
Yeah, I was gonna say that too. It is really liberating. Because when you think about it, it’s like it I think, deep down, people do care about other people, and they want to they want to lift people, right, they want to help people. And and I think especially when you have really challenging times, when you start to really think about those other those other people, whether it’s, you know, your employees, your customers, you know, you’re the other people that are in your platoon, whatever it really is about those other people, and how do you support and lift and lead and they all kind of have their different moments, I guess. And it’s hard to separate them. But yeah, that is I think liberating is is a great word for that. Because it’s, it has me really thinking a lot about that. But well, this is incredible. And the unforgiving minute. Again, Craig wrote this book a few years ago, but it is so relevant on so many levels. And truly not just because you’re my friend, it really was one of the best books and I’ve used it on a number of the podcasts that I’ve done as, like one of my favorite books. And and again, it just if you have never been in the military, maybe you don’t even know anyone who’s been in the military. I think it’s just it’s got so much relevance in there. And you I really felt like I was I was closer to you. When I was reading this book to that I just said, Oh my god, you know, how can I support him? And how, how can I like I can’t even imagine, you know, going through some of the stuff that you went through. So I’m not going to give it all the way you guys really have to read this. But where can people find what social channels are you? Oh, yeah. People find you.

Craig Mullaney 39:40
Yeah, I’m at at Craig Mullaney on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram. I do most of my writing and thinking and engagement on LinkedIn these days. course you can and

Kara Goldin 39:55
you have a newsletter too, don’t you?

Craig Mullaney 39:56
I do. I’ve got a new newsletter connected leadership. on LinkedIn I mean so much my my practice at Brunswick is helping leaders make the most of the digital world for their leadership and influence you know really thinking about social media as a leadership technology what how we first met years ago

Kara Goldin 40:20
yeah through the whole Facebook that’s what that is what Craig was working on there so well that’s great. I met I’m excited to read more I was super excited to get your newsletter so it’s it’s really really good and a lot of good stuff in there. So definitely follow him there and go out and get the book the unforgiving minute and and thank you everybody for listening to this episode of The Kara golden show. We’re here every Monday Wednesday, and you can follow me on social channels and if you haven’t picked up a copy of my book yet undaunted, please do that as well or get on Audible and and get the download there. It’s there’s lots of learnings there for sure. And thank you everyone for listening and hope to hear from you as well. Thanks. Bye, bye. before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book calm and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara golden and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara golden thanks for listening