Eric Liedtke: Co-Founder & CEO of UNLESS Collective

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, everyone. And welcome back to the Kara Goldin show today on the Kara Goldin show, we’re thrilled to welcome Eric Liedtke, who is the visionary co founder and CEO of UNLESS Collective also known as UNLESS, UNLESS stands at the forefront of sustainable fashion, redefining streetwear with a steadfast commitment to eco friendly practices and ethical operations. And if you do not know what this means, we are going to get an entire education about this. I was telling Eric before we hit record how fascinated I was in his experience and everything that he’s done to date, but also everything that he’s done around really changing an industry for the better. Eric actually is not new to the apparel world designing for Adidas up until 2019 worked on some incredible brands, including Yeezy billion dollar success. And under Eric’s leadership, the brand UNLESS is just at the beginning of doing incredible, incredible things. So I’m so excited to have you here. Welcome.

Eric Liedtke 1:58
Thank you very much, Kara, what a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful introduction. I appreciate it. I hope you wish you could travel around with me a little bit and give my give my entrance. The be incredible.

Kara Goldin 2:09
Absolutely. So you’ve carved out a very unique path as a designer, as a co founder, as a as a creator and entrepreneur and obviously chose to kind of jump off of the big company and and start your own. Can you talk a little bit about maybe you as an as an entrepreneur and a creator in this industry? Like what was it that made you just think, Okay, now it’s time to go and do this?

Eric Liedtke 2:44
Yeah, that’s a that’s a multi layered question. I’ll try to be brief. But I think I’ve always liked to build things and I’ve always liked to get into it. So when I came out of school, I went into advertising because you know, it was a was an interesting, exciting field. And, and I ended up being one of the guys in the suits that would shuffle papers between the designers or creative people in the in the service guys. And I quickly came to the conclusion that that wasn’t for me, I wanted to be someplace where you would actually be making decisions, strategic decisions and building things that actually improve people’s lives. So when I got to Adidas, I did things in the product creation world, I did things in the communication creation world, and I still the, you know, built my career up and ended up you know, at the board level as the as a as the brand president for a number of years before I decided to jump out in the startup life. But each and every point in my career, I think I was always trying to build something that wasn’t quite there. I mean, I like to kick around with my my friends and family that I like broken things. Because broken things give you an opportunity to create something new. And we had some we had some few broken things when I was at Adidas and we were able to fix them up and do something cool and and then one of the things was called parley for the oceans. And they started to educate me on the impact the fashion industry has on the oceans and the plastic, you know, microplastics and nano plastics and what they do to the microscopic life that lived there with the krill and everything and how the krill are basically the building blocks of the food chain for everything that lives in the ocean in the oceans responsible for every second breath we take. So it’s really start to be this domino thing when you realize wait a minute, fashion is made of plastic, plastic is shedding might toxic microplastics and nanoplastics that which are affecting the microscopic life in the ocean, which are affecting how we breathe, how we live and and so once you started that kind of exploration or that journey of finding out you quickly found out that you need to do something about it. So we started to fix that when I was at Adidas by picking a fight with plastic and trying to be more recent recycled in our things. But ultimately, I realized that if I wanted to really changed something I had to step outside. And, you know, I decided to found with a few friends, the UNLESS Collective which would solve for the use of plastic and fashion and actually make everything out of plants. So again, looking for a broken thing, which I would consider to be fashion in the way it’s made and consumed right now, in trying to build it into something better, like made out of plants and minerals.

Kara Goldin 5:23
I always laugh because it’s when you’re trying to do innovation within a large company, it’s it’s definitely it sounds great. Sometimes it’s just, not only is it the you have to be patient, you are, you know, the little guy, even if you know how to operate like a startup, it just doesn’t necessarily get the attention and sometimes goes against sort of the grain of the larger company. So I definitely appreciated what you were trying to do inside of a large company. I remember Yeezy was such a massive, massive brand for Adidas before we get into UNLESS I’d just love to know, like, what was the hardest thing as you were at Adidas. I mean, definitely grew that. I mean, it came back. Right. And it was amazing. And what were some of the sort of highlights of that time that you were there that were exciting and also challenging?

Eric Liedtke 6:23
Yeah, I think. I mean, the challenges were many. It was, it was, you know, we were a storied historical story. sports brand, I think we like to refer to ourselves then as the original sports brand. And, you know, started making shoes for Jesse Owens and Muhammad Ali and Dick, Fosbury, and all these legendary things that have since come to pass. And I think the Divas had just fallen on some some tougher times, and it lasts focus a little bit in some of the key markets. So when I came up into the role of president, we had to look, you know, really, really get back to the consumer. And one of the things really focused on was, hey, you know, what is our role? What is our why? And I’m, you know, Simon Sinek fan, you know, and he talks about having your why in life and your purpose. And so we said, Okay, what’s it? What’s it D this is why, and it’s like, well, through sport, because we’re sports coming, we have the power to change lives, and you know, puts us through sport, we put it on us have the power to change lives. And we can do that in our in our in our consumers game in their life and in their world. And each one of them had a strategy that was attached to them. So one of the things was about unpacking each one, I think, when we started that strategy, Adidas was primarily focused on the game side of things, and we were able to unpack, you know, hey, the culture of sport doesn’t stop when you, when you when you get done playing a game when you when you when you leave the pitch when you leave the court when you go into the streets and the music venues in the hallways of life. Culture Sport comes with you. And so that’s what we brought, we brought in like, like Kanye West to to help us, you know, to maximize those things, or Beyonce Knowles or Pharrell Williams, or bad bunny, and all these other people that would help us celebrate the culture of sport in that life aspect. And the third area was like, but consumers all have their whole, they’ll have their phones on them, right? We’re talking about kids. And you know, we’re talking about everybody doing scrolling. And and I think they wanted to make a difference we recognized in the world, but they didn’t know how. And I still believe that inherently today, we all want to make a difference. We all want to improve the situation we see in whatever macroeconomic macro political macro climate situation you want to talk about. But we don’t really know how so can’t the role of business be something that can unlock that? And can’t we provide avenues for consumers to buy in a more conscious, caring way? And that’s what we started working with parley for the oceans. And that was, that was a very difficult challenge with me to get that across the board level. Right, though, you know what, most people saw these things as philanthropy. He was like, Okay, well, that’s interesting, Eric, but you know, put that over here. And let’s get back to telling people how they can jump higher. But ultimately, I think we were able to launch a singular product with ocean plastic shoe and 28th 2015 at the United Nations General Assembly and show the world the first shoe made out of primarily ocean plastic. And that was kind of an inflection point for the company like say it because that that then we posted that and social that went as far and as wide as anything we ever did with Lionel Messi, or anything we ever did with Kanye West. That was like, oh, wait a minute. You can save the world by buying the shoe or seat or help save the oceans. You give the give the consumer a chance to help help their world they really leaned in and that thing went like crazy. It went viral and and then I was able to say hey, Mr. Board members, CFO, CEO, we can do this thing and we can do it and better way. It’s not philanthropy, it’s actually building brand advocacy. And so that little unlock, built adidas has business dramatically. I mean, just the combination of yes, we made better sport product, but then when we have better life product, then we made better world product and all three of those things really lifted the brand add up from the 2014 to 2019 time that I served dramatically, I mean, we I think we put 8 billion euros on the books of growth in little under six years. So it was a very fantastic turnaround. I’m very proud of it. And it unlocked all sorts of ideas in my head as far as what I could do for the industry in general.

Kara Goldin 10:19
That’s incredible. So I remember that when, when that was launching, I remember when that whole campaign was launching, it was pretty incredible. So great job. UNLESS you grabbed a few friends you start talking about, we’re gonna go and do this company, UNLESS what is the mission and the Y that you thought you needed to solve that no one was really focused on? Yeah,

Eric Liedtke 10:46
I think, you know, we were talking before the show a little bit. I think plastics are this beautiful invention that came about right around World War Two, when we start doing that new things for to outfit our troops going into war. And there’s, they’re this, they’re this polymer design that allows us to be super adaptive, allows us to, you know, to be super flexible, to make all sorts of different things, from clothing, to straws, to shoes, to whatever. But the thing that we didn’t realize is always this unintended consequences that plastics when you bring them, they’re, they’re primarily made out of petrol, petrochemicals, and when you bring them to bear, they become these forever materials. They’re built together with 1000s 10s of 1000s of different chemicals, which are having some sort of hazards affect us. But these forever materials are called plastics, that’s called they never go away, they just break down into these little toxic microplastics or toxic nanoplastics that we’re now finding are entering our bodies in in unprecedented ways. I mean, the literature tells us now that we’re eating based on your diet, a credit card with a plastic a week, which is just you know, enters into our blood system, which causes premature clogging of our arteries of interest into our brains, which causes premature dementia. It leeches into our, our, our our bodies were it you know, the chemicals on the plastic that come in with it, or using you know, early endocrine disorders, which you know, leads to early onset of hormonal and cancer diagnosis is, so you’ve got a lot of issues from plastics. And the big aha for me was up to 70%, if not, 80%, of fast fashion and sport product is made from plastic based materials. So all these things that are happening, well, a lot of them were coming from the industry that I had grown up in and spent 30, you know, now 30 years of my life and and that that really woke me up and said, Okay, we got to do something about this, the problem of plastics is real. How do we solve for this, and everybody knows, everybody knows, it’s, um, you know, the solution is plants. And so, I mean, all the industry knows, if you use plants and minerals, good stuff that goes away harmlessly, that’s gonna be a better way. And we can make clothes you know, we make cotton clothes we make live, we use linens, we use bamboo, we use different products to make things, why don’t we go back and try to create a complete brand out of these things and do it from a from a, from a woven to a knit to a stretch sock to a shoe, just make everything and then start to partner with, with big brands in the industry to really change the change the dynamic of what we make things going forward. So yeah, that’s what we set out to do is really solve for the problem of plastics in fashion.

Kara Goldin 13:39
It’s so interesting. So can you walk us through the process when launching a new collection? So how, like, what is the process that you’re taking? Obviously, you need amazing designs, I as I’ve always said, in, in the beverage industry, or in the food industry, gone are the days where you can launch a product that doesn’t taste good, right? It could have all this great stuff. And I think in your industry, for sure. It’s got to fit well. It’s got to be cool. Yeah, you’re focused on streetwear. But what is the process? Not only from a design standpoint, but also from the actual, you know, what it’s made up of? And how do you get there?

Eric Liedtke 14:23
Yeah, first of all, I think you said it exactly right. You cannot ask the consumer to compromise. So they cannot compromise their taste for their values or their values for their tastes, right? They have to be level setting because too often we’re asked to do that too often people will say, Oh, you shouldn’t buy that so much, or you shouldn’t use that and are you if you if you want to buy better than you should buy only from over here and and I think what we want to do is we want to build the highest level of fashion, aesthetics, performance, you name it, and a better stack and that means to me on a plant based deck so you have to you have to hold your Up to that accountability. And I always use Tesla as a great example. You know, before Tesla came out, if you want to buy an electric vehicle, you had to buy a smart car, and you really had to make a sacrifice of your taste for your values. And then Tesla came along and said, No, no, we’re gonna make the fastest, most beautiful car on the autobahn. And you’re, you’re not, you’re gonna be surprised, but It’s electric. So the point was, you could have everything you could have your cake and eat it too, if you will. So in fashion or in beverages, like you just said, you have to be able to hold that that same, that same standard. So we start there, we have to design, you know, product that meets our consumers desire for taste, and aesthetics, durability, and performance, like those standards cannot be compromised. Once you do that, then then you have to go into, okay, what are the materials, we’re going to use that because we are very adamant, everything we do is 100%, plants and minerals, everything, everything we do comes from the elements to be worn in the elements to go back to the elements without any compromises. So So our product has to come from those materials that are going to do that. And so when we’re done with it, you know, we’re testing we always start with the end in mind First, when we test for these things, does it go harmlessly away in your garden, or with us in our industrial composting partners, that’s that’s the cleanest simplest bar we have to clear. And once we do that, then we can say, Okay, here’s the we’re gonna make a woven like the shirt I’m wearing here or knit like a T shirt or a hoodie or something like that, or something a little bit more more dramatic like a like a sock, like we’ve just came out with socks recently. So we figured out how to do stretch, but all these different things have different material buildups. So first design, then you have to worry about the materials and how you construct them, then you have to the dyeing in the printing is very difficult because dyes and inks typically tint can be very toxic. And so you have to use water based dyes, that artists you know, artists colorful is some of the others you may want and don’t sometimes have the fastness. But we’ve we’ve we’ve, you know, we’ve solved for all those things, if you will, then when you’re done with that, and you launch the product, and primarily we’ve been direct to consumer, but we’re starting to open up wholesale, then we have a promise to consumer that we will take it back if you’re done. So we’ll then take that product back. And then we will make sure that product goes away within 30 days. But by working with our industrial composters in California to really put bring that back into what we call ingredients for nutrient rich soil. So our mission in life is a brand is at the end of everything, we want to make good dirt. And that dirt thing can go into your rose garden, it can go into your it can go into your tomato garden, it can go into grow anything else because it goes right back to the elements. And ultimately, we want to grow new cotton plants out of it. So we can grow new, new new product out of it as well. So people asked me if you can eat our stuff, and I was like, yeah, if you want to I don’t know if it’s gonna taste very good, but it certainly isn’t going to hurt you.

Kara Goldin 17:49
I love it. So how difficult has it been to manufacture this product and find people like that are able and capable? So I think when when you come up with new ideas, you know, it sounds great. Like why? Why can I produce this product? And I think, you know, that is often often a challenge. And it’s often more expensive if you do find somebody to do it. So what can you take us through that challenge?

Eric Liedtke 18:19
Yes. You know, as a startup, there’s a reason why others aren’t doing it because it’s hard. And it’s always challenging. And, you know, we started this company, we started UNLESS during COVID. And we started like, Okay, imagine, imagine our conversation character. So we walked into some factories were like, Okay, guys, it’s COVID. So you’re busy. Because everyone’s buying stuff online, and the factories were full, we have an idea to make product better for the world, it’s harder for you to make because you can’t use synthetic threads. And you can’t use all the normal things you’re using to manufacture fashion. Like I said, it’s 70%. And we’re going to ask you to make it a little bit more difficult with different material uses. And we’re gonna give you and we’re going to ask you to do to do fewer minimum order quantities, because we’re startup and we don’t have that much money. And they’re like, Yeah, that’s great. Eric, we’d love to work with you. Now, that wasn’t the answer we got every time it was. That sounds really hard. So a lot of the challenge of a startup, especially doing trying to do something breakthrough, a new like this, in fashion is really finding those core partners, whether it be from an innovation material standpoint, which we found with natural fiber welding is a big partner of ours in pure Illinois, which we found with some factories and primarily we were onshore factories with our especially with our with our with our niche in the Carolinas in Los Angeles and such, but really, it took a long time, especially when you’re during COVID You can’t visit a lot of people so you’re doing it over calls and zooms and stuff like this. And you’re developing those relationships, but it was it was not easy to find those partnerships. I’m so thankful that we have and now that we’re entering into kind of chapter two of our journey, we’re now starting to professionalize some of those partnerships and professionalize our product creation as well, and moving to more more, more sustainable suppliers, if you will. But it was it was a journey that I would not trade for the world. But it was a journey of ups and downs. And I think I heard the other day those journeys usually have like 1000 losses to every one win. But God, do we celebrate those wins. Yeah, definitely.

Kara Goldin 20:21
And it’s, you mentioned some of the factories throughout the US, do you find that the US is a little ahead in terms of being able to kind of adjust and change? Or do you think that there’s other countries throughout the world that are quickly catching up on this?

Eric Liedtke 20:40
Yeah. So what we what we what we need to do is, is really the the idea of UNLESS was to build step one was to kind of model out this idea of regenerative fashion, which was to be a pioneer of this, of this, of this mode of building stuff better, not from plastics, but from plants and minerals. And if we could pioneer that, and then we could be a lighthouse brand for others to say, Hey, listen, we solve for all these things we solve for, for shoes, we sell for socks, we sell for hats, we sell for wovens. We solve for for knits. And then you take that idea, and you scale it with urgency. By partnering up with other visionary brands, whether it be in the sports, or the fashion or fast fashion, it doesn’t matter. We’re very clear, we’re not focused on creating generational wealth, as much as we’re focused on creating generational change. And I think when you when you when you create those two things together, and you talk about creating generational change, you take the competitiveness out, and you start to say, I’m looking for visionaries that are mission aligned. And when we have those visionary partners that are mission aligned, then what you’ll see is dramatic change happening in all the markets. And so whether it be a factory base, that might mean we go to Asia, where we’ve primarily been us to get to start to change some of the main infrastructure, factory plants of fashion in general. But then when we talk about consumer uptake, you’re probably Europe’s probably leading the way from Portsmouth, especially northern Europe, as far as consumer demand for these kinds of solutions. I think the states is mixed based upon you know, where you live, and you know, what your, what your view is on climate change in general, and what we’re trying to solve. And then I think Asia is coming on quickly. I think we all know that when China makes their decision to do something, they go the fastest. And you can see that just in their electric vehicle adaptation. So I think it’s an exciting time, this wave is definitely coming from a consumer demand standpoint. And it’s a question it’s not a question of if it’s a question of when and how fast. And so we’re preparing ourselves for to ride that wave with several partners at this moment.

Kara Goldin 22:40
I love it. So one of the things that you’ve done very successfully, particularly at Adidas, but is really partner with influencers to kind of help you. I always talk about it as borrowing equity from somebody else to sort of, you know, call attention, I would imagine that that would be in the plans at some point down the road. But how do you think about as you’re building a brand? When is it time to do that? Right? When is it time to really call attention to what you’re doing? Because I feel like, you know, you’re you’re sort of quietly building this I frankly, hadn’t heard about, about what you’re doing. And yet your products are available. You know, as you mentioned, you’re starting to go into wholesale opportunities as well. And you’ve been available online, but when is it time to just hit the gas? Yeah,

Eric Liedtke 23:37
I think now, I think to answer your questions. So we’ve we’ve been, we’ve had to solve for all the product solutions. And we’re pretty much in season two right now. So it’s early, it’s still early days for us. But we’ve now solved for a complete range of products, whether again, I’ve mentioned those before. And now that you’ve got that range built and you’ve got some factory base built up where you can you can you can serve as demand, now’s the time to start to expand our audience and expand our distribution. So we are speaking to people out there, if you will, I mean, we work right now with Robert Downey Jr, his team, really around his his his dream cars, solutions, where he’s doing stuff where He’s taking a lot of his, his, his vintage cars and update them to electric vehicles. And then you can enter the raffle. And then we supply all the product for that for those raffles. So we’re doing things step by step like that we’re working with very much mission aligned, you know, influencers, if you will, whether it be sea legacy, or parley for the oceans? I think those are those are two companies that are doing good ocean advocacy right now. And we’re trying to support them through product and sieving and making sure they’re people on their missions when they go out into the oceans to try to preserve things or are well equipped with with all that product. And you know, when you talk about going to the model of you know, the the level of a Travis Scott or Kim Kardashian are things like that? I think the most important thing when we look there, and I would be open to those conversations is mission alignment. What I think the most important thing is when you talk about influencers is you don’t want to do transactional things. I think. I think everyone’s been so overwhelmed with influencers. Now. I mean, when you talk about, you know, Travis Scott having his own happy meal at McDonald’s, I think we’re talking about you know, we’ve got a saturation level of influencers out there. So the real challenge I think, for for breakthrough is when, when consumers really feel the connectivity of the mission. And I think Ryan Reynolds is doing this very, very well right now, especially with some of the things he’s participating in, you know, he’s he’s very much into what he invests in. Otherwise, it just becomes a gun for hire. And I think you need to stay away from the gun for hire, that I’ll pay you so much money for every post, it’s like, it’s more like, hey, why don’t we get on this thing together? Why don’t we share in some equity you buy in, we compliment that with equity for for for, you know, for your efforts, and your work and your influence. But really, let’s do this thing together as a as a joint team. I think that’s where it gets very interesting. And that’s what I always tried to do at Adidas when I was working with some of the people we’ve talked about before, it’s like they were I was I was I was able to get them on the equity cap table as well, you know, get get them something to be part of the Adidas experience and part of the growth that they were helping to drive. And I think, I think that’s critical. In any company, as you build. It’s like mission alignment. And then everybody shares in the ups and downs.

Kara Goldin 26:34
So UNLESS today is streetwear, I would imagine you guys are gonna go well beyond that in the in the future. But what are some of the items if you could just share with some somebody who’s not familiar with the product? I know I’ve had the t shirt and the sweatshirts are amazing. Like what else are you most excited about from your collection?

Eric Liedtke 26:59
I think first of all, we’re focused. Like right now we’re focused on the Pacific Northwest and having that attitude of Coldwater surf meets meets, meet skate meets work, where meets craftsmanship, and kind of manifests itself in some sort of street where offering so we like to lean into silhouettes that skaters or or surfers or work or craftsmen would wear. So we take these kinds of work where you know, looks and kind of give them a twist that could apply towards these kinds of sports or these kinds of, you know, endeavors. So if you’re into that, like I love this work shirt I’m wearing right now it’s you know, got a little brand in there. It’s got some cool stuff on the back. But it’s a nice woven piece that you can dress up or dress down. We like to you know, I don’t skate. I don’t skate Well, I don’t I’d say I don’t skate at all. But you know, when we were putting on some guys we work with they like to skate in it. Or you can also wear it to, you know, like like I could for a podcast right now or you could wear it on stage when you’re presenting. So it’s kind of got the versatility. Then we have our essentials which is really our you know, our T shirts that you can wear underneath this or our cruise our hoodies, I think you’ve got some basics there, when I get excited about is when we come out with some of these iconic pieces, like we’re going to do is this really dope, Canvas, outer layer, surf parka. If you’re familiar with surfing and stuff, there’s a lot of changing going on the beach, well, let’s give you a big you know, Pacific Northwest Parker that Can you can you can change him but also protect yourself from the winds in this in the sideways rain that comes our way. So it’s, it’s it’s really just, you know, depends what you’re into, you can you can do the t shirt like yourself, or you can do a more extreme version of that with some iconic items like these woven pieces like the park I was talking about. I

Kara Goldin 28:44
love it. So last question. What’s the best advice for somebody who’s looking to incorporate sustainability into their business model, but more than sustainability, really, kind of making a difference in a big way as you’re doing? I mean, what what advice would you give to people, if they’re sitting here looking at their apparel company? Maybe they’re, you know, product manager, thinking, you know, gosh, what Eric is doing is is awesome. I mean, what what is it that really needs to happen for our future?

Eric Liedtke 29:21
Well, that’s a that’s a big question. So from an advice standpoint, I would always encourage people I’ve done this my entire career, don’t let perfect get in the way better. I mean, I think it’s a I borrowed from an engineering term of you know, Perfection is the enemy of better, whatever you may call it, but I think we have to, we have to accept that. You know, perfection is an ideal state and we have to keep getting better every day. And I think a lot of people wait to get started waiting for the perfect idea, the perfect solution. I think we just need to start taking steps. And if you want to make seismic change, which is what we need. We need to systemically change industries we need to do things Things like you did with him. And we need to do things like UNLESS it’s doing with fashion, or like Tesla did with electric vehicles or Oatly did with plant based plant based proteins. There’s a lot of ideas, there’s a lot of comparisons too, for you to look at, and see what they’ve done and apply it to a different to a different industry. Because what we need to do what we know for a fact is that the world is warming. It’s causing unintended unintended consequences that we do not even know what that will be, you know, 10 years from now, we also know that we have a plastic problem. And not to say that plastics are are universally bad. They’ve been they’ve been beautiful. But the residue of the waste of plastic is a problem. And we need to solve for that. So just start doing things and think about your specific industry on what you could do systemically to change it.

Kara Goldin 30:46
Definitely. So Eric Liedtke, co founder and CEO of UNLESS thank you so much for joining us today.

Eric Liedtke 30:54
Thank you. It was a great pleasure. And it’s, it’s great to spend some time with you.

Kara Goldin 30:58
Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would, please give us a review. And feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit and of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. I would love to hear from you too, so feel free to DM me. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal, best selling book undaunted, where I share more about my journey including founding and building hint. We are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks for listening and good bye for now.