Interview Replay: Kara On The Casey Adams Show

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Today’s episode is a bonus episode. I hope you enjoy it. And please make sure to tune in Monday for a brand new episode of Kara Goldin show, and joy.

Casey Adams 0:53
All right, welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I am joined by Kara Goldin, the founder of hint, thank you so much. Come on the show, Kara.

Kara Goldin 1:01
Thanks for having me.

Casey Adams 1:03
Absolutely. So I’m so fascinated with your story. And you know, of course we have we have the hit water with us here today. And I’ve been a fan of the product for a very long time. But this journey for you started back in 2004 2005. Where did this drive for, like entrepreneurship and starting hint in the first place? Begin? And what where did that you know that seed get planted in the early days of your career?

Kara Goldin 1:31
Well, it’s funny, I mean, I never called myself an entrepreneur, an entrepreneur, a wannabe entrepreneur or entrepreneur in the making. But I happen to have worked for a few different entrepreneurs when I was first starting out. And the first one, actually, my second job out of college was at CNN, you and I were just talking about, I never got a chance to interview Larry King, but I definitely was able to go to the show and see him in, you know, in His glory, for sure. But I, you know, watching Ted Turner, and I always tell people that the, you know, when a founder is still a part of an organization, you just feel it, it’s the soul of the company. And it’s, we used to joke that, like, you knew Ted was in the building, even if you he generally was in Atlanta, but he came to New York a lot where I was working and, and, you know, it’s funny, because it’s, it’s really true, you knew that, you know, he was getting out of the elevator, like, you could hear him, you could, you know, know that, like, there were jokes being made, there was just this jovial fence. And that was going on, that was really, really an incredible so. So anyway, that was my first and then I moved out to San Francisco, where I ended up again, stumbling on to a startup that was doing early Internet, what is now known as like early days of direct to consumer, that was the Steve Jobs idea. And I had known who Steve Jobs was, I had was actually fortunate enough in college to have a Mac. And, you know, it was really excited about that, but didn’t really know that much about CD ROMs and didn’t know about electronic shopping as we used to call it. And so again, it was the idea of, you know, seeing these people in action and knowing that something could be possible if you really focused and you, you know, like, had an idea had a vision for something and, and move forward. And and then finally, the last entrepreneur that I worked for, was a guy named Steve Case, who was the founder of America Online, and he acquired our company. And our company was called to market. And so again, like having worked for three different entrepreneurs, and sort of founder led organizations, I think I probably got a little bit of confidence to know that, you know, it’s not easy, not every day is going to be filled with, you know, successes and you know, and, like probably more failures than successes, but what I realized is that, too many people they may have seen like, larger than life and godlike but they were, you know, just Ted Steven Steve fright, like getting off the elevator and, and, you know, giving it a try and and, and knowing that you could go from a smaller number to a bigger number over time.

Casey Adams 4:53
Yeah, that’s incredible. I like the perspective of seeing that in different organizations, I’m sure Was it as you were saying it, you’ve learned so much from those experiences growing up as you grew up in a place where the entrepreneurial spirit was alive or in an entrepreneurial family, or what did that look like?

Kara Goldin 5:12
So I was the last five kids. And I always think about my dad as a frustrated entrepreneur, because he wasn’t an entrepreneur in the sense of he didn’t start a company, but he started a product inside of a large company. So they called it product development inside of a company called armour food company developed a product that is still alive today called Healthy Choice, it was acquired actually by, or I should say, armour food company was acquired by ConAgra. And so, you know, I, I was able to kind of, not only watch him think about an idea and have a strategy for an idea of how to actually get it to market. But also the big realization between launching a product inside of a large company, and launching a product without a large company behind you, where you have to do things like raise capital and form a very large team and, you know, buy the coffee and things that are that are critical right to to any successful startup.

Casey Adams 6:28
Absolutely, no, that’s incredible to hear to just and the differences. And then you know, taking those into your own experiences. So after these experiences of working for these different entrepreneurs, I know when it comes to like this idea for it, you wanted to find a different alternative to you know, the Diet Coke you were drinking, where did the initial idea for hint, come about? And then when did you start taking it serious to go pursue it to launch the company to launch the product.

Kara Goldin 7:00
So, you know, it really started, I guess, with my kids and sort of watching my kids and watching my patterns of like feeding my kids and knowing that I had to have, I really wanted to, to give them products that were healthier and better for them. And I started with food. But then I started looking at all of the sugar that they were getting from their apple juice, and I used to, you know, fill up with apple juice, the sippy cups. And when I tried to cut it with water, I found that they, they were on to, you know, the trick, like they weren’t going to have watered down apple juice. And I thought, Gosh, somebody just has to create a product that has water with the taste of apple juice or something else. And then that will actually solve this problem. I had no idea what I was talking about, or that I was thinking of like the early days of hint, but that’s when I really looked at my own pattern of what I was drinking, and I was drinking a ton of Diet Coke, thinking that I was doing just fine. But then when I realized how many sweeteners, it wasn’t sugar, it was, you know, the diet version of diet, or excuse me, the diet version of coke that had these diet sweeteners in it, I thought you know, that’s probably not that great for me either. Because I’m sitting here craving sweet all day long after I finish one diet soda, then I want another something, whether it’s diet soda, or some sort of sugar. So while I was kind of formulating something for my kids, I was also formulating something for myself, because I thought if I am telling my kids to not be having so much sweet, why am I okay with having so much sweet like I feel like a hypocrite right. And so that’s when I started, you know, really developing something that I could have and my kids could have in my kitchen, just by slicing up fruit. And slicing up fruit was great. I’d fill up pictures of water and put some fruit in it and unlike this is exactly what I’m talking about. But it was a hassle because it didn’t last very long. The shelf life right was not as long it would go bad in the frigerator. So I was buying an enormous amount of fruit. And it wasn’t readily available. I had to stop and slice up the fruit and while that’s not impossible, you know, I’d be out of fruit and then I would find myself you know, figuring out what else could I drink? Okay, maybe I want to go back and drink a Diet Coke or maybe I’m gonna grab that apple juice instead for my kids. And so I thought there has to be a product like this that is in, you know, a bottle or some sort of container that people can buy it in the store. or, and I really did believe that there was I, like, I thought there has to be a product like this, I just haven’t seen it because I didn’t really go down the beverage aisle anymore. I knew exactly what I wanted when I went into the store, and I just wasn’t looking around. And so that’s when I decided, I’m going to go find it. And I looked everywhere, I not only looked on the west coast where I live, but also on the East Coast every time I was traveling for a little over a year. And that’s when I realized it wasn’t out there. And I thought, You know what, I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna go and develop this product and see what happens. And so I did.

Casey Adams 10:43
Wow, it’s so incredible. And just for the audience as well. So this was 2014 Doesn’t five around this time, right? And, you know, for For context, and I told you this earlier, but I’m 22. And in the year 2023, and I live in LA, you go to an airline, and there’s an abundance of CPG products, beverages, and just, sometimes it’s hard to pick because you just you want to try everything, like take us back to 2004 2005 when it comes to like CPG products, the beverage industry, like where was it, in your opinion, back then. And I bring us back to that time when it comes to the shelves and just how it was thought about versus, you know, today when you go into some aisles, and there’s just an abundance of different products that are in similar categories. I’d love to hear your perspective on that.

Kara Goldin 11:34
Yeah, well, you know, it’s interesting, because the the beverage of the hour I like to think of it as was, was vitamin water. And they didn’t even have a diet version of Vitamin Water in 2004. It was like full sugar, right? Vitamin Water. And it’s, it’s interesting, because I remember going to my local supermarket looking for this product and talk to the guy that was stocking the shelves. And he said, you know, what are you looking for? And I explained to him and, and he said, Oh, I bet you’d love this product, vitamin water. And so when I flipped the product around and looked at the ingredients label, that’s when I found myself educating him on vitamin water. And, you know, at that time, it had more sugar in it, and more calories than a can of Coke. And I thought, wow, like, this is amazing. I mean, I never really looked at it that closely until until I was educating somebody about this. And that’s when he said, Gosh, you know, your product that you’re talking about sounds amazing. I mean, I would say vitamin water is like the closest thing to it, but obviously it’s not it. And he said you should you should go develop a product like this. But again, like, I didn’t know what I didn’t know, right? Like, I mean, I laugh now today and think if, if I would have known. Sometimes if you think too far, about the end, you’ll never get past the beginning, right? Like you’re, you’ll freak yourself out, if you think too much about it. And I just thought it’s gonna be fun, right? It’s gonna be really fun to just go and launch something that is brand new that nobody’s doing. You know, I, I always say to, to new entrepreneurs or people who have got an idea, like, you know, it’s ideas are a dime a dozen, the execution is really what’s going to separate you from the rest. And, you know, to be honest with you, like, actually having competition is a pretty good thing, right? Especially if you think that you can compete and you can do better, because when you’re the only one that’s actually doing something, and you’re, in our case, launching an entirely new category. Yeah. You know, the the comments back from I call them the gatekeepers, the buyers at the grocery stores who were saying, hey, we’ll take a meeting with you. Yeah, this tastes pretty good. Everything, you know, seems terrific. Unfortunately, we have no category setup for your product, because you don’t have sugar in it. So you’re not really vitamin water. So it just doesn’t fit into the planogram and if this was such an amazing category, and such a great idea, why isn’t Coke and Pepsi doing it? And so, you know, it was like, a nice way of saying no, to us. So that was the that was that was really 2005 Time for us.

Casey Adams 14:55
I mean, that’s that you you what was Mojo through your head when you would hear that when like a buyer say that right, like speaking to the entrepreneurial spirit and having belief in your idea? Like was there doubt when thinking about starting this new category of a beverage? And how did you work your way through that, as you know, as a solo founder to begin with before getting the product out there?

Kara Goldin 15:22
Well, it’s interesting I did, I have doubt, I didn’t really have doubt as much as I was frustrated, right? Like, I was frustrated with the situation, because I just got it. Like I had seen it firsthand. And then I also had people saying to me, like friends of mine, people who, you know, kids would come over to our house to have playdates with my kids. And, you know, they’d be saying, Hey, can we have some of, you know, the Golden’s water? You know, they would, they would, so I knew that there was a market for it. But the, and again, like direct to consumer was just not really happening, especially not in grocery at the time. So I think if the product would have launched, you know, today, I think that going, you don’t need to have the Okay, have a buyer that says there’s no category for it, if you have the ability to do great SEO, and, you know, and be able to launch it online. In a great way, then, then I think that, you know, that’s less of a gatekeeper. But for us, you know, it was that those were the issues that we were really running into, but no, I mean, I really just thought, like, how do I get past these people that just don’t get it? Right. And, and so. And, you know, I also had enlisted my husband, who, you know, doesn’t always go by co founder, but he was here since the beginning. And he was our chief operating officer, and, you know, really understood what I was talking about. So he was like, Look, you know, it’s frustrating. What are you going to do about it? I mean, you just have to just keep going, or don’t, right, like, I mean, that’s, those are the choices. And if you really believe in doing something, I mean, you’ve had situations where you’ve gotten past really hard challenges before, whether it was, you know, at CNN or, you know, launching direct to consumer or America Online, I’d seen it in different industries. So I, I guess I just had to be reminded, and then I also knew that those dark days, you know, would get better if I could find, you know, some light, right, that if I could really figure out like, how do I get through to these people. And I think ultimately, the way that really broke through, you know, the message really broke through because, again, I was like, you know, pulling my hair out trying to I was going to every single buyer, I was calling my dad and saying, Hey, like you’ve gotten your product in the safe way. How do I make it happen? And that was another thing like when you have a large company behind you, that pays huge slotting dollars. He like had to negotiate internally. He wasn’t negotiating with Safeway, they were like, Oh, sure. What are you guy, you want to launch a new product? Go ahead. Like you have a certain amount of space, you decide how what you’re going to put into that space, which is a very different story, if you’re a startup that’s trying to get into. Yeah, yeah, get it, get it in. But ultimately, you know, we were doing product sampling, we were having people reach out to us saying, Hey, I got your product at this run that I was at, and I really love it, like, Where can I buy it? But ultimately, we ended up getting into Google, which was really like, truly by accident. And the first

Casey Adams 19:20
place that you guys got into are we so we

Kara Goldin 19:24
worried about? So we’re in about 10 stores? And, you know, throughout the Bay Area? I don’t think we were in any stores in LA. And then we were in a couple of locations in New York City as well. And, and so, you know, one of our strategies actually was, again, like, everything kind of happened by by accident, but a friend of mine was showing a movie at Tribeca Film Festival. And she’s like, You should get He went on the table of everybody at this dinner for the Tribeca Film Festival, Vol. And I’m like, Oh, sounds amazing. But like we don’t sell in New York. So I think it’s gonna be really frustrating for people because they’ll see the product. And, you know, again, online was not really happening at that point. And so I picked up the phone, and I called a market that I knew of in Soho, called gourmet garage. And I had no idea what I was doing. But I was like, What’s the worst that can happen? I mean, they’re gonna hang up on me, right? And so I, I called, and they connected me to the buyer. And I said, Hey, I have my product at this dinner at the Tribeca Film Festival. And I would love to put table tents on the tables and tell people where to buy the product at your store. And the woman. I’ll never forget her name’s Kara. And, and so she said, Sure. And I was like, wow, really? Oh, my God. And and she said, Yeah, it sounds great. And she said, can you send me some product? I’m like, absolutely. And I said, By the way, can you fax me an order? I mean, this is this is 2005. Right? There’s not. And so she faxes, she faxes me an order. With a credit card. Like I read, it was a credit card number. Yeah, it was crazy. So we

Casey Adams 21:35
found the quote, was that a huge part of the early days of getting in the first acidic one? 510 stores? Like you just picking up the phone? Or how did that was it awesome.

Kara Goldin 21:43
I mean, I had no idea I didn’t really like people were like, I go into Whole Foods. And they’d say, like, Oh, who’s your distributor? And I’m like, Oh, me, I just distributed it. Like I and then after a while, I started realizing people were like, they wanted me to be bigger, you know, they wanted, like, they were like, Oh, you’re just a girl making this product in your kitchen? And I’m like, Well, no, it started that way. But then, like, we actually make it in a factory, but I just don’t have a distributor yet. Because, I mean, we don’t really need it. I mean, we can just deliver it and, and it’s okay. But then, as we started to grow, it started to not be okay. But it was, you know, we went through a period of time, we were in, you know, a few stores here and there. It was all kind of working for the most part. But then we realized that there were problems with the product, like we hadn’t really figured out how to produce a product that was shelf stable. We would we really needed as a distributor in order to go bigger, we were having requests from stores and like Colorado, I couldn’t, you know, get in my car and drive to Colorado. And, you know, like, we were like shipping is going to be really expensive for us to do that. And so that’s when I was really thinking at that point, maybe we close up shop, like maybe this is just much more difficult to actually scale. We hadn’t raised money at that point, either. We had self funded the company, I had four kids under the age of six, like I was just kind of like what am I doing i That

Casey Adams 23:26
raises such a, like an important question for me, like, how are you spending your time what you know, now, like, for kids, you’re trying to get this product out there. It’s growing like, day to day, I would love to hear some of the early days of like that growth and kind of what was going through your mind with in a family setting kids and just how it all played together? Because I think it’s, you know, from an entrepreneurial perspective, it’s, it’s easy to talk about the business, but like managing all of that in that part of your life. I’m sure that wasn’t easy. And I’d love to hear sort of just how you went about that in the early days.

Kara Goldin 24:00
Yeah. Well, you know, my husband was also working in the company, and he had been an attorney, and was actually taking some time off. And he had actually, after being an attorney had started a company that was really focused on kind of early days of AI, you know, yeah, like it was it was crazy, a company called Z medics that he was running that was doing patient interviews and helping to diagnose patients based on different symptoms back in 2004. And so he had sold it off actually, it was too early, he had sold it off to the Bosh foundation in Germany. And so trying to figure out what he wanted to do. He didn’t know if he wanted to be an attorney, and all sudden he’s like, seeing that I’m really excited about something which frankly, he was excited about too, because he thought, you know, here I am working on health on consumer health and you’re just telling people drink water, like and then they get out Hopefully you’re and you’re getting all these emails from people and, you know, it’s just it’s crazy, like 14 Bollocks, people don’t need to, you know, turn in products to insurance. It’s like, it’s not complicated, right? So he was, he was intrigued and excited about it. And so, so he joined me. But he also realized that some of the logistics were things that he was not only interested in, but he could actually help think about, so the production and the distribution. And so he started also cold calling around and helping to figure out like, how do we actually increase the shelf life and do all of those things as well. And so we sort of like, you know, that’s the beauty I think of, it doesn’t work for everybody. But it’s the beauty of our relationship that we both liked, you know, had different skill sets. And we both, like, enjoyed doing different things. So I was much more about the brand, and the marketing and the product development. And he was more about, you know, the production and the logistics and the supply chain, and really figuring out, like, how do we make those things better. And then, of course, the legal aspect of it, getting the trademarks and all of that kind of stuff. So the combination of the two of us, you know, we would say, okay, who’s taking the kids to preschool, we had a nanny as well. So it wasn’t like we were, you know, trying to do everything at once. But we were definitely, you know, it was like, the six of us, and the work, you know, and we were scaling it. And then we added, we had it going out of our garage. So we had an employee that was working in our garage in San Francisco with us and we’d open up the garage, it was, you know, good old days, when we were first starting out. That’s

Casey Adams 26:58
so great to hear. It’s like working with your partner. And I think those early days. Hey, Kara,

Kara Goldin 27:02
here, we are thrilled you’re listening with us. And I hope you’re enjoying this episode. I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing so many amazing guests over the past few years, and there are so many more to come. I cannot wait. And my focus is on entrepreneurs and CEOs, real innovators and leaders who are making a difference. That’s what I’m looking forward to bringing you. One of the reasons I enjoy interviewing many of my guests is that I get to learn. We all need to hear stories that teach us to be better inspire us and help us get through those challenging moments. I can’t remember the last time I had a guest that didn’t leave me feeling like a major hurdle had been overcome. We just don’t hear these stories enough. And when we do, we learned to be smarter and stronger. Don’t you agree? Episodes are concise, but packed with amazing info that you will surely be inspired by, do me a favor and send me a DM and tell me what you think about each interview that you get a chance to be inspired by. And if you are so inclined, please leave one of those five star reviews for the Kara Goldin show on one of your favorite podcast platforms as well. Reviews really, really help. Now, let’s get back to this episode.

Casey Adams 28:24
I want to transition back to that the point you mentioned about getting into Google like where how did that come about? Yeah. You know, like the the unofficial drink of Silicon Valley is what I’ve heard. And it’s so great to now give it a dive into that. But how did that happen in terms of getting into Google?

Kara Goldin 28:42
So we were at this point where, again, there were so many issues that we had to get figured out. And we felt like we had scaled it. You know, you’re I don’t know, we were probably doing a few $100,000. And, you know, that was exciting. Like I was share with entrepreneurs. You know, that first order is amazing, right? And then you’re, you’re growing, like every single day, like that’s a good milestone, but then you get to a point where you’re like, okay, even if I want to grow it more, there’s, I’ve either got to raise capital, I’ve got to, you know, figure out a better production. I’ve got to get, you know, people, employees on board, like you’ve got decision points, right that you’ve got to make. And that’s where we were, and I thought, okay, I could do this. Or I could also go do something else. And so there was sort of this combination of two things that went on. One was I believe that we could figure some of these things out, even though the industry said that we couldn’t produce a product, for example, that had real fruit in it. That didn’t have preservatives in it. I thought it is that we can’t or no one’s actually done it. That’s how I thought about it. And, but I had to just keep thinking about it. And that’s the tech side of sort of me where I think is, you know, a beautiful piece of tech is that you never hear people saying it just can’t be done. They don’t really think that it can’t be done. It just hasn’t been done yet. Right, which was a very different way of speaking, than what I was hearing, and the consumer products, you know, industry that I had entered into. So there was that. And then there was this whole other side that I come from, which was tact. And so this guy from Google, who I knew who had actually worked with my husband, as well at Netscape reached out and said, Hey, we should grab lunch, I want to talk to you about some of the stuff that we’re doing at Google. And so we had lunch. And he had been talking to me about, you know, potentially coming, coming in and doing something at Google. And I wanted to keep the lines of communication open. But I, I wasn’t ready to sort of jump into anything. And it wasn’t that there was anything wrong with Google or with him, it was just me, like, I wasn’t sure what I was going to do yet about him. And so I decided in our lunch to pull out a bottle of hint, and show him what I was up to, as he’s, you know, sharing a little bit more with me about what he was doing at Google. And that’s when he said, what, what is this? And I explained, you know, I had left AOL, I had taken a couple of years off, and I was really surprised that there wasn’t this product like him on the market. And he’s like, Oh, my God, this is so cool that you decided to do this and like you’re in stores, and it’s amazing. And he said, You know, it’s so funny, I have been tasked with. He was one of the first employees in Google. And he said, I’ve been tasked with creating an easier way for people to get access to food inside of Google, because there’s not enough restaurants for Google employees. And so every time people go out to lunch, it takes like two hours because they have to wait. And so we’re going to just get a bunch of chefs in to actually cook food for our employees. And I’m like, wait, watch, this is crazy. And he said, but what I’m thinking is like, we don’t have drinks, we only have food. And so we haven’t gotten that far. Like we were like, maybe we get, you know, vending machines, but all the vending machines have a bunch of crappy drinks in them. And we really want healthy stuff. And I’m like, well, when is healthy. And he was like, I know, that’s what I’m thinking. He’s like, here’s this guy, Charlie’s phone number. And he’s like the head chefs. And he said, Just call Charlie and tell them that, oh, Mead said to, to talk to you and try this product. And I’m like, Okay, so, of course, I don’t want to let me down and I call Charlie. And I’m like, Hey, Charlie Yomi told me a call you and he’s like, Oh, yeah. Yeah,

Casey Adams 33:16
you’re talking about me? Khorsandi. Right. Yeah. And so it’s so incredible. I’m really good friends. This son, he was just on my podcast that we’ve been good friends.

Kara Goldin 33:25
That’s wild. So yeah, so me it is like, I mean, it’s it’s like a hysterical story. So anyway, he was like, Wow, that’s so cool. You were intact. And now you’re like, Are you a chef? And I’m like, No, I’m not a chef at all. Like, I created this drink telling him why. And he’s like, Oh, that’s so cool. Well, who’s your distributor? And I’m like, Oh, we don’t have one. And he’s like, that’s okay. I don’t care. We don’t have distributors, either. I was just curious, like, if you want to bring 10 cases down, and he’s like, How much is it? And so anyway, I deliver the cases. And then the next day, he calls me, and he’s like, Oh, everybody loved it. Can we have 30 cases? And I’m, like, 30 cases? Sure. And then I’m thinking, wow, like, I wonder how long this last. And then two days later, he calls me and he’s like, can we have 50 cases? I’m like, Hey, like, how much do you think you’re going to order because I don’t have that much of my garage. And he’s like, Oh, really? Like you don’t have any like, you don’t have a warehouse? I’m like, No, we like did a small. He was like, oh my god, we’re like going through this. No, it was crazy. And the craziest story about Google was, so we got into Google. There were no micro kitchens. They started creating these micro kitchens, frankly, because, like, they had to have a drink like hint and have to have someplace to have it scattered all over, you know, the building. But we got to a point where I mean, that was a biggest retailer, like, you know, they would buy our product. Cool,

Casey Adams 35:06
was so incredible. And so that

Kara Goldin 35:08
was the thing that was so crazy because the employees at Google then went in to Whole Foods and sprouts and Safeway and everywhere else and said, Do you have this product can’t? Because they’d want to buy it at home? And they were like, hint, what is it? And they’re like, oh, we have it all over Google. So then the phone started ringing. And then the email started coming. And that is what wet put a wedge in it like that is what opened it up where the category, they created a category then at that point, because they’re like, Oh, my God, there’s so much demand that was coming in. And so but again, like, we didn’t plan that, I mean, that was not even like, incredible. Yeah, no, you should definitely tell him me. It’s

Casey Adams 36:01
yeah. Yeah, I was literally at dinner with Milan is, we’ve been best friends for years now. And I didn’t even know that story. And I hear you that just like brings such a smile on my face. Like to think about that. It’s so incredible how that all came about.

Kara Goldin 36:17
It’s it was it was absolutely crazy. And then, like it continued on, because Sheryl Sandberg was at Google for a while and more than a while. And I got a call from her assistant when she went to Facebook. And she’s like, Hey, I am calling from a company called Facebook. And Sheryl Sandberg is my boss. And I guess she used to have your product at Google. And we were just wondering if we could like, order kinda like what Google does. Like she really loves hint. And she loved the hint, fizz. And and I’m like, Sure. And she’s like, Well, can you guys just deliver it? And so I was like, Sure. So that is how it started at Facebook. And then all the sudden it started, like, people would leave and they call us and they’d say, hey, we have a startup of 10 people in South Park. Is there a delivery? Yeah. And that’s really how it started.

Casey Adams 37:23
Wow, it just so it’s such a beautiful story, because you can’t predict these things, right? Like in the early stages of head, but also just entrepreneurship in general, like, you never going to know what will become that tipping point. And it seems like this was such a tipping point for you the business, I would love to talk about, like in the spirit of our time together today, like from the scaling the business from going from those early days of like, hey, we don’t have 50 cases in our garage. And Google wants to keep putting in orders to then being in 10s of 1000s of retail stores. Just what was the growth and the distribution? Like what did that look like from a distribution growth from the actual building and scaling the team? And, like, what are some pivotal points in the business that were similar to the early days of like, a moment, like a Google but especially as the business scaled? So

Kara Goldin 38:17
many? I mean, there were so many, I think about the stuff all the time, because, you know, we were like many startups thinking, like, maybe we should just shut down. Right? I mean, there were there were definitely days like that where we were, we couldn’t figure things out. You know, we, we were frustrated. We were scared, right? Like there were there were moments where we weren’t sure whether or not you know, we were going to make it one of the ones that you know, I think back on was a major point in the timeline was when we got into Starbucks, you know, we had always thought like, how do we get in that case at Starbucks? Like there’s all these stores we didn’t even know how many stores there were we were like, oh, it’d be so cool if we got in there actually. That’s a really funny story if you have time. Oh,

Casey Adams 39:12
yeah, I would love to hear that. How did you get into Starbucks? Yeah, so that this is

Kara Goldin 39:16
a really funny story. So we had been trying we had been pitching Starbucks for a long time. I rarely tell the story but we have been pitching them for a long time. And finally I got a hold of a buyer and she called me back and she said okay, fine, like work. Would you guys be willing to do a juice box like kind of you I’ve heard you talk about apple juice and would you do this kids style juice box I need to see a mock up I need to you know actually see that it would be hint kids and anyway like, basically, hint except boxed up and sort

Casey Adams 39:54
of branded, definitely wouldn’t have a product like this at the time right

Kara Goldin 39:57
now. And so we created a mock up We like actually created a little box and, you know, pasted it together, like glued it together. And it looked really, really good. And she called me the day before and said, By the way, I just want to be very, very clear, you cannot come into the meeting with a bottle of hint. And I said, What do you mean? And she said, we’re not talking about hint, we are only going to be talking about hint kits. So do not come into the meeting with hint, because if you do that, like that is, you know, not going to be a good situation. We’ve got other buyers in there. And you know, and so here I am, like, oh my god, you know, big bad Starbucks has told me, you know, like, don’t do that.

Casey Adams 40:52
Why was that though? Like, they wanted a specific, like, kids juice type of product. Yeah. And she

Kara Goldin 40:59
didn’t want me to try and pull like, Hey, you guys should really be having this one in there, you know, versus this. So I was like, okay, whatever. So my husband and I flew up to Seattle. And we stopped at Whole Foods. And you know, we can’t travel with water, right? So it’s really nice when it’s in the airport. But in the early days, it wasn’t in the airport. And so we stopped by Whole Foods and grabbed some hands. And so we’re getting out of car in the parking lot going into Starbucks. And, you know, my husband’s pulling his, like, ice chest out. And he’s like, with cold hands that were bringing it. I was like, no, no, don’t bring the hint. And, and he was like, What are you talking about? I’m like, no, she like made a big deal about it. Like only we’re only talking about like the boxes. He’s like, how are we gonna bring the boxes in? Without the hint? Because you don’t have him in the boxes yet. This is just a mock up of the boxes. I know. But she said don’t do it. And he was like, all? I don’t know. Like, I’m doing it. Like, he was like, I’ll just be drinking the product. And, you know, she can’t drink it, I guess. But I don’t know. And he’s like, just like, I don’t know, I’m like, You know what, I’m just gonna throw an extra bottle on my person. Maybe somebody else in the meeting will say, Hey, do you have a bottle ahead? So we go into the meeting, and, and she said, You didn’t bring like a bar? You didn’t bring any hint with you? Did you? And I’m like, Well, I just have the bottle like with me that I’m drinking. And she was like, okay, that’s fine. But don’t worry, don’t be like tasting it. Like she made a huge deal about it. I’m like, Oh my god. Okay. So we get in the meeting. My husband’s drinking it. I’m drinking it. And then. And then we bring the boxes out. And they’re like, oh, you know, the prototypes? They’re like, Oh, these are great. And then one of the buyers says, Well, do you have any hint with you that we could sort of I know, these are just mock ups, but that we could just imagine I look over at the woman who told me don’t bring any. And I’m like, oh, you know, and I’m like, You know what, I do have one bottle. I’m gonna drink it in a few minutes. But it’s all yours. You can try it. And she was like, Oh, amazing. She’s like, Well, why? Like, why would you hunt? That’s really weird. Like, why would you bring him and then not actually have him? Like, I mean, and of course, I didn’t want to throw this woman like under the bar. But I’m just like, Okay, I’m just doing like what she said. So the meeting ends, everybody’s happy. They’re like, Okay, we really get it. And then we walk out of the meeting, we get back to San Francisco, we got a call the next day, from the same woman who told us not to bring the product into the meeting. And she said, great news. She’s like, we’re not going to launch the hint, kids, but we’re actually gonna put him and to a test. And I’m like, wait, what? And she was like, Yeah, you know, we were talking. And it was a good thing that you had that bottle with you, because that buyer and you believe it? I’m like, I know. And so we were. It was crazy, right? And so anyway, so we, we find out we’re doing a test. We’re really excited. We get a call a week later. I’m like, oh, no, she’s calling back. Like, what’s going to happen? And she said, Is there any way that instead of doing a test of like 30 stores, you could do 300 stores? And I’m like, oh, that’s crazy. 300 stores. That’s amazing. Of course, we got just one flavor of the Blackberry. Okay, sure. calls back two days later, and she said we’re turning it into 1000 store test. Is that okay? And the date was moved up. So it’s two weeks earlier on like, okay, like, let me see if I can pull this off. And she was like, Well, you better because if you guys can’t pull it off, then you’re not going to make the set. I’m like, Okay, well, we’re gonna figure it out, we’ll figure out what to do. So then she calls back one last time, like two days before we’re launching. And she says, I’m sure you guys are gonna say no to this. But we would like to launch you in 6000 stores, like, wow, yeah. So we didn’t even do a test. Like, it was from the get go. Yeah. And so we were. And so we were like, Whoa, and she said, yeah, like, it’s, you’re gonna be launching in those stores. And I said, so. I mean, we’re making all this product for you. What is success? And she’s I said, like, how much do we have to sell? And she said, Well, if you sell a bottle and a half per store per day, then you’re good. Like, you’re awesome. We’re gonna be so happy. I’m like, Okay, I’m like, you know, counting, counting the money, right? Like, I’m like, Oh, my God, this is insane. On so many levels, I’m so excited. So it took us six months to get there, like, be doing like what she wanted. And then I was just like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. We were hearing from more and more consumers across the country, like in Chicago and other places that we weren’t even like, in and then a year and a half into it. 40% of my business is running through Starbucks, we’re meeting all these news, new consumers, it was a beautiful thing. They paid on time, everything was great. And then they reached out and said, We have a new head of marketing. And she is actually changing the entire way we are doing business, and you are getting removed from the case. I’m like, wait, What? What? How does this happen?

Casey Adams 47:00
You said 40% of the business at that time was coming through Starbucks. Wow.

Kara Goldin 47:03
I’m like when? And she’s like next week?

Casey Adams 47:06
Oh, my gosh.

Kara Goldin 47:09
Right. How did you? I was like, Oh, my No. Are you sure you’re talking about the right brand? I mean, that is not, we’re doing great. We’re like, doing three times what you guys wanted us to be doing? And she said, I’m really sorry. Like, we’ll keep you in a 300 stores on the military bases, but we’re not going to be able to keep you in all 6000 stores. And I’m like, Oh my god. So I hung up the phone. I was frustrated. I was angry. I probably reversed out, you know, Howard Schultz, and you know, everything else like in my mind. Yeah. And, and then this just goes to something else. I believe that, you know, dark days don’t last right? You have to believe in the future. Right? That it gets brighter. And you have to keep your eyes you know, if you believe in praying if you believe in positive thinking, whatever it is. And so, two weeks later, I got an email from Amazon. And Amazon buyer says, I’m starting this whole new category in grocery. And I buy your product in Starbucks every morning. And I would love to put you guys in the set. But I need product tomorrow. And here I had three truckloads of products that was going to go bad for Starbucks, that I didn’t know what to do with. And I reached out to that Amazon buyer. I’m like, I have the product. And he was like, You’re kidding. That’s amazing. I need it like tomorrow, I’ll wire you the money today. So it’s done. And I’m like, This is crazy. And then almost the end of the story, because it goes full circle. That positive day came after that really dark day. And then a year after with Amazon, we’re killing it or one of the top products and Amazon grocery. And I was in a buyer meeting with the Amazon buyer. And he said, We love your product because people are buying your product. And they’re also buying things across different categories, which we haven’t seen and our E commerce business. And that’s why we love your product. And I thought that’s amazing like what categories they’re like health like this consumer is really profiling as somebody who wants to get healthier and is buying things like diabetes monitors and Some healthier products that we’re not seeing and other, you know, beverages. And so I said, that’s terrific. I like can you share a couple emails with me, I’d love to reach out to those consumers, because that’s why I started this product. And they said, No. And that’s when I realized, if I wanted the data, if I would have had the data, when Amazon cut us off, when it was 40% of our business, and had that relationship with the consumer, then I wouldn’t be in the situation that I felt like I was in, because I would have had a way to communicate with the consumer. And so that’s when we start our direct to consumer business at hand. And that became almost 40% of our overall business a few years ago. And so, so it’s a full circle, things happen for a reason. Crazy, crazy story.

Casey Adams 51:00
It literally gives you the chills, and I’m sure you have stories like that in so many different scenarios. And I want to make sure to be respectful of your time today care, but just a hearing that, again, gives you the chills, and just you can ever predict the ups and the downs, the dark days. And you know, as you said, like, dark days don’t last. And I really want to end this conversation, in the spirit of just your lessons over the years that you have built such an incredible company, something that you know, even still to this day 2023 You have someone like myself, enjoying a bottle of hand someone that’s health conscious and truly loves the product. And I think it’s just a testament to you and your ability to build not only incredible team, but an incredible culture, like what have been some of the biggest lessons that you’ve learned over the years that you’d want young entrepreneurs starting today, to learn from us starting their journey in this new digital world, that’s much different than when you were starting your journey.

Kara Goldin 52:02
Yeah, I think follow your gut, first of all, and you know, sometimes things don’t necessarily make sense in the beginning, like the direction that you’re headed. Right? It’s if you would have looked at me in 2005. Again, mom of four kids under the age of six, I’m a tech executive, I’m jumping into the beverage industry, I was creating my own product that nobody wanted on the shelf, but I believed right. And so I think that leads to the second point, which is if you don’t believe, then you shouldn’t do it. Right? Like it starts with you. And that sort of follows on with, if you are working for a company, and you don’t believe there are a million ways to make money. And like, don’t work for a company that you don’t believe in, like Gone are the days where you’re working to get a pension or, you know, it just doesn’t like that it doesn’t make sense. And you’re doing not only yourself a disservice, but you’re also doing the company and the product a disservice. Right? If you it could be that you don’t believe in it, or you just don’t understand it yet, whatever it is, don’t be there. Right? I think that that’s number two. Number three, you’re gonna have hard days, right? Being an entrepreneur, there are a lot easier ways to make money. And you and the, it’s like a sickness, right? Where you jump in and you want to, you want to sort of solve a problem, right? Your your, the best entrepreneurs are problem solvers. And they, they want to, they’re builders, they want to look at something and figure out how to make it better. They want to grow it, they want to, they’re never finished, right? They keep going, they keep adding on to it and it doesn’t matter what categories. So that is that’s the life of an entrepreneur. But again, it’s not easy. And you’re gonna have these, you know, days where you’re gonna have the Starbucks buyer, everything’s, you can be doing everything right. And then suddenly, things are not right anymore. Right. Right. And, and so, I think that that is a big lesson that I’ve learned. Also along the way, there’s so many I would say, teams are critical that it’s an teams that are that are buying into your idea and working for your idea are our gold, right? And and it’s like being a founder being a CEO of a group of people. I mean, think how crazy See, that is it’s sort of like saying, like, Hey, I’m, I’ve got the sandbox, and it’s like, so great. And you’ve got to, like, Come and enjoy it. Like, there’s no reason why they should, when you think about it, right. And so that’s the thing, too, that, you know, I always say to people, when you’re building these teams be really gracious and thankful for the team that is helping you to make your dream a reality. And, and I think that that is that that’s great. And always continue to make, you know, obviously, your product better and better and better. When you stop when you actually have decided that you’re the best, and you’re at the top of the mountain. Just know that there’s others, if you’re really that great. There are others that are looking at you and it’s probably not the big guys. Right? This the little guys that are that are trying to unravel what you what you’ve done, because they’re thinking about how to make it better, and they have a lot to lose. Yeah, and I would say one last thing that I’ve learned, as well, that the people that actually don’t just hire people who have the best experience or the best education or, you know, seem like they can actually take you to the summit, right? It’s the people who have actually failed. Some who have actually seen dark days are probably going to be the ones that are going to help you to actually be the most successful. So don’t close your eyes to people just because they’ve been fired. Or, you know, they’ve got challenges that they’ve you know, gone through, know that, that maybe they’ll take a little bit more of your time in order to manage along the way, but we found some of our best employees along the way are the ones that no one else would take a chance on. Because they were fired. They had been they couldn’t stay in a job. They had, you know, substance abuse issues, they had, you know, challenges along the way that they were embarrassed about. Those are going to be the people that are really going to, you know, be the big hitters for you. Wow,

Casey Adams 57:47
that’s powerful. All those points are so spot on. And I appreciate you sharing that. Kara just again, for the for the sake of time, I want to say thank you so much for coming on the show today I could talk to you for hours you’re so delightful to speak with and just I’m learning so much to these stories. But for those that want to connect with you learn more about what would you continue to work on, learn more about your book, your podcasts, You’ve so many incredible things that you do. Where’s the best place where people can follow you and connect with you?

Kara Goldin 58:22
Awesome. So Kara Goldin all over social. My book is called undaunted, overcoming doubts and doubters. And the podcast is the Kara Goldin show. So talk to lots of founders you get, I always weave in a few of my own stories in there along the way as we have discussions, but but I really focus on the founding stories because I think that there’s so many lessons that you can learn and and everyone’s stories and every category.

Casey Adams 58:52
Absolutely. Well, I will make sure to link all that down below. And again, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Kara Goldin 58:58
Thank you. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book.com and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of hint water. Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know and if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram. Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin thanks for listening