Kate and Daniel Wadia – Co-founders of Mrs&Mr Creative Agency
Episode 88
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Transcript
Kara Goldin: Hi everybody. It’s Kara from Unstoppable and we’re super, super excited to have Daniel and Kate here today. Yay. How are you guys?
Daniel Wadia: Hey, Kara.
Kate Wadia: We’re great, and thrilled to be here.
Kara Goldin: Very excited to have you guys here. So this couple are some of my favorites. They’re with an amazing, amazing creative agency called Creative and Branding. I think creative is just too simple, too narrow. You guys are much more than that. But Mrs&Mr, and you can find them at mrsandmr.com. They are the creative agency behind some of the greatest design-led strategies of brands. They’ve worked with Sephora and SoulCycle and, God, so many. Rent The Runway, Google, who else? WeWork, Chobani… There’s one other drink that’s out there and I can’t think of what it is. Oh, Hint! They did Hint!
They did our whole redesign, which was… When you’re doing a redesign with founders in the room, it’s a painful process, especially if you’re a creative agency, I think. We worked hand-in-hand and they’re just super awesome. And we have tons and tons of respect for not only who they are, but also what they got us to do. So amazing, amazing. So Kate has worked on both the client and agency side, originally from Melbourne, but then in London. And they’ve worked in this industry where less than 3% of creative directors are women. I did not know that. Very, very interesting. And Daniel is… the two of them obviously work together.
They founded this company. Daniel originally from London and worked in some of the top agencies in London and in San Francisco and became the youngest agency leader in the U.S leading WPP’s Berlin, Cameron, amazing, amazing, and then left to head up MDC’s Redscout. Very, very cool. We had actually met through Julie at SoulCycle. And when I asked Julie one night when we were at a group dinner, who should I get, that… I didn’t want to work with a large agency, I wanted to work with a small group. And she said, “You have to talk to Kate and Daniel.” And so I got their phone number and the rest is history. So very, very exciting. So welcome you guys.
Kate Wadia: Thank you.
Daniel Wadia: Thank you for having us. We’re excited to be here.
Kara Goldin: Very excited. So take us back to the beginning. How did you guys decide to do this? And obviously, you guys were married before, you started the company together. I love these married couples that do companies together, because Hint is as well. So of course, I think that’s a big experience.
Kate Wadia: We love that experience of when went through the branding project together, we loved that experience. It was so fun. The four of us working together, collaborating, it was great. It was good fun. But our story actually goes back to before we were married, because we were actually working in competing agencies. So even before we formed Mrs&Mr, we were both in advertising, working in competing agencies.
Daniel Wadia: Yeah. it was an interesting time. We met. It was a coincidence that we were in the same industry. We were competing. We ended up competing for Amazon.com’s business. It felt a scene out of Mr. and Mrs. Smith, that movie where they’re both spies, because we would have password-protected laptops, we would stay in separate hotels. And it all became kind of farcical where we thought it might be better if we start working together. And I felt that if my career was going to go to the next level, I’d be better off partnering with Kate versus having Kate on the other side of me. So really Mrs&Mr came about because we wanted to work together. We thought we had these really complimentary skillsets and that we would succeed as a partnership, as opposed to finding ourselves in different hotel rooms, in different parts of the world. It wasn’t making-
Kate Wadia: Competing against each other. [crosstalk 00:04:41]
Daniel Wadia: Yeah, competing against each other, and it also came about because we really believe that we wanted to have an agency where strategy, and the messaging, and creativity design really came together in an integrated way. We didn’t want one to play second fiddle to the other. So the idea behind Mrs&Mr, beyond taking the tradition and flipping it, because Kate is very much in the driver’s seat as the creative director, was really making sure that there was a symbiotic relationship between us, that we could then offer to our clients.
Kara Goldin: That’s awesome.
Daniel Wadia: Clinique was a founding client, and then we kind of took it from there.
Kate Wadia: Yeah.
Kara Goldin: So you’re based in New York, so what was the first work that you did for Clinique?
Daniel Wadia: Oh God.
Kate Wadia: It was a campaign for Difference Maker. It was actually really interesting. It was interviewing around the globe, women that are making a difference around the world. So it was sort of a global shoot. It was in Johannesburg, and we were in London shooting, and in New York as well. So that was our very first project together. And yeah. How long are we now?
Daniel Wadia: It’d be three years-
Kate Wadia: Three years now.
Daniel Wadia: Things kind of grew from that. It was helpful to have an [inaudible 00:05:52] line in Clinique because they’re an established brand. But then we were able to start working with other clients like Google and Sephora and things sort of grew from there, which was really-
Kate Wadia: Sort of quickly, but also just organically. We’ve been pretty rubbish at marketing ourselves. You know, I think this is probably the most, we’ve talked about ourselves potentially on this podcast, because what we found is that just really, we’re driven by our client’s success. And then that’s just like you said, Julie told you about us, and word of mouth, and clients sort of passing on our name is worked well.
Daniel Wadia: Yeah, for us, that was always really important. I think sometimes agencies will launch and they’ll want a big splashy press release around their launch. And we definitely had some editors reach out, they wanted to tell a story about us, but our point of view was always the brands that we work on are the ones that should shine. The founders and the entrepreneurs we’re working with. We’re in service of them, we want to build their brands, and their profile. So it was always very deliberate to almost be the secret weapon to the Julie [Rissers 00:06:55], or hopefully now, to the Kara Goldins and others, as opposed to being so focused on ourselves, we want to be focused on others. And nothing would be more rewarding than having our founder and CEO and CMO clients speak about us. That was much more valuable to us than having something in Fast Company or in an Ad Week, even though that is good, we just felt that it wasn’t as powerful as the voice of our own clients. And that was a deliberate strategy on our behalf to adopt that way of working.
Kara Goldin: So it’s interesting because I think a lot of the brands that I see that you’ve worked on have really been… There’s stories to be told. And I know when we worked closely with you guys too, it was… That’s why I hesitate when I call you guys a creative agency. I think you’re much more than that. And I often feel part of the problem with lots of different industries, whether it’s business or whether it’s government or whatever, people are sitting in these silos. And I think there’s an intersection between brand and creative and storytelling. SoulCycle it’s just an example where you’ve got this passion, right, and this feeling. And how do you get that across without beating people over the head? And I think Hint is the same way. I think so many of the brands that you’ve worked on, people smile over them, right? There’s a feeling about them. How do you inject that into somebody’s brand? I would imagine it’s probably easier if you do it from the start, right? Is it too late for a brand if they want to try and figure out how to do it later?
Daniel Wadia: Yeah. I don’t think it’s ever too late. But we are deliberate about working with brands and with products and services that we really do believe in, and that without the branding, without the creative idea that surrounds it, where the product or the service in itself has a huge amount of integrity, and has value and is useful in people’s lives. So frankly, we will turn down opportunities if we just think we’re putting lipstick on a pig, we’re not interested in doing that. So the greatest gift to us frankly, is our client’s brands and their products and their services, in themselves are so powerful that we get to build around that.
And we get to sort of do what we call product led branding, where it does start with the product. And not to make this about Hint, but Hint is a great example of that. The greatest gift about working with you and Theo and the whole team was you had a great product off of which we could build. You had something that we had nothing to do with, that we shouldn’t and take no credit for. And for all our clients that’s very important, that baseline is there to build from.
Kate Wadia: And so really you’re just digging in and finding the truth. And then it’s our job to express that truth. So, yeah. And I think it’s interesting, you were saying at the start, “Are we a branding agency? Are we a communications agency?” It’s funny, I think it’s been, it is hard to pinpoint. We even sometimes struggle with that because I think it is my training in Australia [inaudible 00:10:16] they never siloed, it wasn’t siloed at all. It was sort of very much that Aussie kind of, give-it-a-go attitude and how I was trained. And the philosophy was, if you could come up with the idea and design it, you could then apply that to a logo, film a chair, it didn’t matter, whatever the experience was.
And it’s funny, when I came to New York, sort of hustled my way into New York about 20 years ago. Sometimes they look at my portfolio and they’d be like, “Oh, where do we fit you? We’re not quite sure. Are you a packing [inaudible 00:10:47]? Are you this? What are you?” And it’s funny all these years later now, I think that really is a strength. Especially when we’re communicating in such a holistic way with consumers. So to be able to sort of create these sorts of very tight ecosystems around brands is something that I’m really sort of passionate about. The consistency of voice and creating that story and world, complete world around a brand is something that we’re very passionate about.
Kara Goldin: How do you-
Daniel Wadia: Yeah we [inaudible 00:11:22] Yeah.
Kara Goldin: I was just going to say it. So both of you are not from the U.S, but you’ve spent a lot of time in the U.S. How do you think, if a brand is looking to go outside of the U.S, what things do you think that they should really be thinking about? Obviously you worked with SoulCycle and WeWork and others that started here and then they went and did that. What are kind of the things that you think are really important? How do they differ? I think in the case of Hint and we’ve thought about this. We’re only based in the U.S but people have always said the U.S is a tiny bit ahead of some other countries around diet sweeteners. And I think lots of countries are catching up now very, very quickly because of type two diabetes, and heart disease, and some of the other things. But people have kind of warned me that I think that this health thing that goes on in the U.S was not really necessarily that prominent in other countries. I guess it really would vary by categories, but how would you advise brands?
Daniel Wadia: Yeah, it’s a great question. I think the number one thing we try to do when we, I guess we would advise, is to really understand the culture that you’re going into. It’s sort of become almost a cultural anthropologist, where you take none of your preconceived notions about your market for granted, or just project that you know about in this case, the U.S market, and try and project it to a different market. So I think having insatiable curiosity, asking a lot of questions to dig into that truth that Kate was speaking about earlier, is really the key to success for brands that travel and try and transcend from one culture to the other. And the best way to summarize how you do that, is really listening attentively. And I think because we’re not American, we in a way benefited from this, because we came here without knowing the culture.
All we had was this insatiable desire to understand the market we were in, because we didn’t take anything for granted. I didn’t even understand the difference between a college and university because I went to university. So I’m in these meetings where it’s like, “We got to speak to the college audience”. And I go, “What’s the college audience?” So even naive things like that, where sometimes you can almost feel a little bit vulnerable because you didn’t understand certain things about a culture, I think that’s a real positive. What you don’t know, you can turn into a strength if you decide to really go and learn and understand that culture. And once you do, you can connect to that culture in a meaningful way, just like you did here in the U.S or wherever a brand was incepted in the first place.
Kara Goldin: I love that. And you put the story behind so many of these brands. Do you think that, that is critical for brands today? What do you see in terms of consumer response? I have an opinion about it of course, but I’d be really curious, should every brand have a story, I guess is the question?
Daniel Wadia: Yeah. I think people respond to stories, the way you speak, the language you tell, needs to be compelling to people. I think storytelling comes from both using language, but also design is a key part of that. People react to how you show up visually as well, but storytelling is absolutely critical. And when you work with founder led brands, often the story comes through the vision. That story, the vision they have for the brand, sometimes it’s almost being like a brand archeologist. And with a very established brand, you want to go back and get back to the soul of the brand. Why did it exist in the first place? Why did somebody come up with that product or that service back in the day? And how do we make it relevant again? But yeah, storytelling is key. Being able to craft the story, being able to tell that story in a way that is distinctive, is also a key part of what we believe to be important. It’s one thing to know the story, how you tell it, how you bring it to life, is a whole craft and skill set in itself.
Kara Goldin: And Kate, do you think the… What would you say is your design philosophy?
Kate Wadia: Well, look, I think for me, the craft is super important. And it might sound simple, but really digging in and going back to the roots of the craft. There’s a great David Ogilvy quote that I love, “Any idea can turn to dust or magic depending on the talent that rubs up against it”. So ideas are great, but how they’re executed, they can live or die on the execution. So for me and our team, craft is so important. And what I mean by that is that digging in and finding the right, obviously visual look and tone for the brand, something completely unique for that brand, is really important.
And I’m often dissatisfied, so I’ll dig and I’ll dig and I’ll dig some more. And I love to get away from the computer, get my hands messy, we experiment in all mediums, go sort of paint or silk screen, we will photocopy, we’ll like to get that exact right shade of green, or that exact typography. For example, Hint was a great example. All the lettering in your brand system was actually cut by hand with scissors, all those headlines and then it scanned in and then re-scanned to pick some to create more texture. So, yeah, I’m pretty relentless about sort of creating-
Kara Goldin: I love it.
Kate Wadia: A really unique visual world. And usually it’s pretty sort of tactile. And so yeah, relentlessly crafting. That’s what I love to do.
Kara Goldin: So we’re recording this in hopefully the end of COVID, but maybe I’m too optimistic. But what do you see is the key thing from a creative aspect that people are thinking about? And what do you think is kind of the vision for going forward? Do you see people dramatically changing their brand in any way? Or their story? I’m constantly thinking about this. I know, just really quickly when we launched our direct to consumer, or I should say threw the gas on the direct to consumer business in March, when we really saw, frankly, that we needed to figure out a way to kind of hedge against what we thought was happening with offices, closing, where we had a lot of distribution. That for us was, how do we put ourselves in the position of the consumer? And I’m the consumer, right.
And we wrote through our emails to consumers saying, “Hey we get it”. I’m scared. When I go into stores right now. I’m not sure I’m supposed to be in there. I try and get out of there as fast as possible. And so I think actually for us, that’s not necessarily a long message, but I think it’s not tone deaf to sort of what people are dealing with and what they’re grappling with. And I think it’s an important aspect. And I saw some of your brands that you guys have worked with do that as well, which I thought was good. Because I don’t think you need to be gloom and doom, but I think telling people “We’re all kind of challenged”, is okay, right. What would you say to that?
Daniel Wadia: Yeah. What you’re speaking to is insightful, which is one being honest and truthful, empathizing with people, understanding what the going through, I think at the moment is critical. And almost most importantly, is taking meaningful action. I think brands that are doing things to be useful, to be helpful, as opposed to just talking about themselves, being useful right now is valuable. So when I see, this as an outline, but when I see Hilton Hotels, they’re going through a hard time, but what are they doing? They made a lot of their hotels available to people on the front lines, doctors and nurses. That’s a very meaningful thing. They’re doing that because it’s the right thing to do. But that has a positive halo on their brand as well. And I think, again without getting into it, we’d be doing a lot of that with our clients as well, which is what can we be doing that really adds value to people’s lives and shows that we care? And brands should be doing that anyway, to be honest.
But I think right now people need it more than anything else. And it’s not just about writing a check for a million dollars or donate any. It’s, what about your brand? What could you do when… New Balance started making face masks before anybody else did, it became very popular and everybody piggybacked off of that. But they were one of the first to do it. So yes, that to me is key. At the same time, just to answer your question directly. At the same time, it’s important for brands not to try and be something they’re not. Consistency is still key. So there is a central story and a central message that I think can continue. But to your point, it’s really about not being tone deaf. And doing is more important than talking right now. And the brands that do and the brands that put things out in the world that help, I think, are the ones that will be remembered for having done the right thing during this pretty difficult time.
Kara Goldin: Yeah. I think that’s really interesting. I have a friend who just launched a pasta brand in London, and I was talking to him. He is this brand new entrepreneur, he had been in inside of large companies for many, many years. And he finally, he bought this company. It’s an Italian pasta company that puts a wild boar and some other things into pasta. And all you have to do is basically put the sauce on, and any sauce. So it’s sort of the Soup Nazi of pasta, where it doesn’t matter what the sauce is like, because the pasta is so great. And so anyway, great idea. COVID hit. And so I was talking to him, His name’s Nicholas. I said, “Nicholas, how’s it going?” And he said, “Well, I started thinking the consumer and really started thinking, what are they missing? They’re missing going out to restaurants”. And so he said, “I started talking about all these restaurants around the area and how it was really difficult to do what he’s doing during this time in restaurants”.
And so he literally put this company together, he got his own trucks and started doing delivery before they were even kind of doing it in London. And I was just like, “That’s so awesome that you did it”. And he said he was sending out emails to customers saying “That it’s a scary time”… Very similar situation. But I think that consumers really respond to that. And I think it’s such a critical thing to do. So I have this question that I always ask people. But what advice would you give your 20 year old self? Both of you guys, what would you say? You didn’t know each other back then?
Daniel Wadia: Well, marry well would be one of them for me, for sure. I feel like I’d shoot that one. So that’s good.
Kara Goldin: I love it.
Daniel Wadia: That’s getting [inaudible 00:23:28] at an advantage. And what else? The advice I would give myself when I was 20 is Definitely never let anyone undermine you or put you down. I think self-confidence and belief is absolutely critical. And if you can combine that with some semblance of talent and perseverance, you’re going to do well, whatever field you’re in, whatever you’re interested in. So that to me is what I would tell myself. It probably is what I was telling myself at the time, but I just didn’t know I was telling myself that. Whereas now I look back and say, “Yes, self-confidence belief, talent, and surround yourself with amazing people. And you will have a good life as a result of that, both in your personal life and also in your professional life as well”.
Kara Goldin: I think that’s true.
Kate Wadia: A similar sort of vein… I think for me, it would have been trust my instinct. I think it’s taken me years to probably come into that. I maybe second guessed myself in my twenties. In fact, I know I second guessed myself in my twenties. And just trust my instinct a little more, especially when it comes to work and the creativity that I’m doing. So definitely that. Tell myself that I will never run out of ideas. I remember my mother saying to me, once “Are you ever worried you’re going to run out of ideas?”
Kara Goldin: That’s so funny.
Kate Wadia: I was like, “Not until you said that mom”. But no, you will not run out of ideas. And just keep yourself inspired. I’ve sort of traveled a lot. I try and keep my eyes open. I think I was like that then, and I still am now. And I think always be useful, always just try and be useful in whatever capacity. Whether that’s professionally, to a friend, to your family, sort of be…. Yeah find use, yeah.
Kara Goldin: I love that. Would you advise people that want to get into your line of work to go and work for an agency, a bigger agency? Or what’s your sort of your thinking? People always ask me this because my first job actually was at Time Magazine, and my dad had always… There’s a crazy story in my book where I talk of, during a time when no one could get a job, I didn’t get that memo. I was graduating from college and I was like, “I just need to go get a job”. You guys probably haven’t even heard the story, but I ended up… It’s a crazy pre-story that I won’t bore you guys with. But I decided I wanted to leave Arizona and I wanted to go figure out where I was going to go.
And I wasn’t dead set other than it was going to be a big city. And so I decided to buy a plane ticket one way to go from Phoenix to Los Angeles, to San Francisco, to Chicago, to Boston and New York. And along the way, I would tell people the story that I was interviewing and I was figuring out what I wanted to do with my life. And they were like, “Well, what do you think you want to do?” And I said, “I don’t know”. And I said, “But I’m going to Chicago next, do you know anyone?” And so all these people kept giving me people.
And so I had all kinds of interviews, I had over 90 interviews, and I had 60 job offers when it was all done. And it was a great month of just exploring, who I wanted to be and what I wanted to do. And then ultimately I ended up getting to Time Magazine, which is really where I want… I wanted to work for Fortune, and they wouldn’t hire me because I didn’t have any experience. So I took a job at Time just because it was in the same building. And I always share the story with people. So I ended up getting into this job during a time that was not a time that I was supposed to be able to get a job. And it was just because I was curious. And at the end of the day it was a brand. And so my dad had always said, “Go and work for a brand, because that’ll set you off on the right place”. But in addition to having a brand, there were all different people around me that were incredibly smart that I could learn from, right. And I always had factors in there, like I need to be learning, and I want to work around smart people, and they have to be kind, they can be tough, but I have to be learning along the way.
And so I’m a big believer. Even though I’m an entrepreneur, I’m a huge believer that nothing I’ve ever done was a waste of time. I learned about cultures, I learned about… I’m sure you did too, what you wanted in your business, what you didn’t want. And so that’s what I always have shared with people. Even when they came to Hint early on, I’m like, “It’s not a bad move to go work for a very large company for a while, because you’re going to learn what you do and don’t want, and you’re going to cherry pick out of those things”. And I bet you guys feel the same way, like it…
Daniel Wadia: I couldn’t agree more with everything that you just said. I know personally I’ve benefited a lot from having amazing mentors and Andy Berlin from Berlin Camera, and Jonah Disend, from Redscout. And as you say, you’re learning about yourself when you’re in your twenties and you’ve figuring out what works for you and what doesn’t. And you’re learning through osmosis. I learned from amazing entrepreneurs probably before I had the confidence to go out on my own. And if it wasn’t for them sort of paving the way a little bit, it might’ve been hard for me to take up plunge with Kate. So I do agree. I benefited hugely from being in larger agencies and larger organizations. And I also learned what I didn’t want to bring in [inaudible 00:30:11] venture. So there’s the pro’s, but there’s also, I believe in our case, clients deserve access to the sea of talent in the agency. And often in larger agencies, the most senior people are not the ones necessarily doing the work.
And I wanted to flip that on the head with Kate to make sure that our clients were getting access to us because I knew that in the large agency game, it doesn’t quite work that way. So I encourage it for all the reasons you said, but it’s a great opportunity for them to learn what they want, but also what they would do differently if, and when they go off on their own. And that was always the filter that I chose during those formative years.
Kara Goldin: Yeah.
Kate Wadia: Yeah. I agree. And I love your hustle story Kara. I have a similar one moving from Melbourne to New York. I traveled to New York, I was supposed to stay a week, I stayed for six weeks instead on a friend’s couch. Which now as a New Yorker, I’m like “That’s obnoxious, someone’s couch for six weeks”. But I went back, I sold my car, I saved as much money as I could. And turned up with sort of a one way ticket without a visa. I had to shoot my portfolio over ahead of time. And then you just have to hustle. You got to work it out. So I think what you learn on the job is super important. But 90 interviews, that is phenomenal. I did not have 90 interviews. But that hustle alone of getting in the right door and meeting with people, you learn so much about that process as well. So I think [crosstalk 00:31:45].
Kara Goldin: And I love your story too, that you guys were not born here, right. Because I think so often we put up… My book is Undaunted, Overcoming Doubts and Doubters. And so often I hear people talk when I’m out speaking about, that how different I am from them. Because I obviously didn’t have any failures, I didn’t have any doubts, I didn’t have any obstacles at all in doing what I’m doing today. And I’m like, “Wow, what world were you living in? Because that wasn’t mine at all”. And I know you guys did as well, but I ended up saying two years ago at a conference that I… Somebody had asked me a form of this question. And I said, “I think you actually need to break down why you think you can’t do things”. It’s a bigger kind of issue.
I remember my niece was a pro soccer player, and she ended up going to see somebody, a sports therapist who actually helped her get through things. Because she couldn’t move in a certain way, and she didn’t know why. And she kept saying, “I just can’t”. And then she had a very smart coach who said, “You actually need to see somebody about this and you guys need to break it down”. And it worked. And she played pro soccer after that. And I think about that all the time, where there’s no reason why you can’t do things if you actually set your mind to it. And I just think you guys are such great examples of that too. And anyway, that’s one of the reasons why I really wanted to have you guys on here too. I think it’s really important. And the more we say “I can try and I can go do this”, and people hear your stories, that’s where people find hope.
Kate Wadia: Yeah. I really appreciate hearing that. And as an Aussie, I don’t know where it’s from, but we really do have a give-it-a-go attitude. I think as a culture, we’re always willing to roll up our sleeves and it doesn’t matter what the job is, you just get in there and you get that shit done. It doesn’t matter what. And it’s funny you say that I’m talking about this sort of attitude, because it’s something that I know… We have two kids and it’s something that I really want to make sure I instill in them. Because I think it’s so important, not just in business, but in life, you just got to get on with it. And I think having an optimistic outlook and just that sort of sense that, “Well hell yeah, just give it a shot, what’s the worst that can happen?” So yes, it’s definitely an Aussie spirit thing that I hope I’ve sort of brought across the pond with me.
Daniel Wadia: [crosstalk 00:34:36]
Kara Goldin: We’ll forgive you. You married well.
Daniel Wadia: [inaudible 00:34:43] on me because I’m actually half English, half French. So I’ve always been a little bit at war with myself. And having kind of this can-do spirit from Kate where literally, she will let nothing get in her way of achieving what she wants to achieve, obviously is incredibly inspiring. And as she says, it is something that we do try to model for our children as well. We have a boy and a girl, and equally, we want them to have that belief that you can achieve what you want to achieve, but also it’s just put one foot in front of the other. Just put one foot in front of the other. If you make it feel daunting, then it will feel daunting. Just break it down.
Kara Goldin: You haven’t even read my book yet. This is exactly what we’re talking about. So, called Undaunted, but this is exactly it. So, that’s awesome.
Kate Wadia: I’m going to quote my mother again. “How do you eat an elephant? One mouthful at a time”. It feels big, and just one mouthful at a time, then you get through it and she’s actually given me an elephant- [crosstalk 00:35:48]
Kara Goldin: I love that. That’s so great. So I think you guys answered our question. What makes you unstoppable? And I love, love, love, everything about this interview. So thank you guys so much. And people can find… You’re both individuals on social, you guys, in addition to Mrs&Mr. Where else can people find you?
Daniel Wadia: Yeah. The main thing is our website. As I said, even on social, we’ve been so focused on building kind of our client’s brands, that again, it’s been a deliberate thing, which is, make it about our clients and not about us. But we do have yes, our website with all of our information there. We’re just thrilled to be invited, and to see you, and to speak with you.
Kate Wadia: Good to see you again. I hope [crosstalk 00:36:38]
Kara Goldin: Super great to see you. So you guys, when you’re listening to this, if you like what you hear, definitely like the podcast and also subscribe. And we’ll see you next time. Okay. Bye-bye.
