Nick Green: Co-Founder & CEO of Thrive Market

Episode 669

On this episode of The Kara Goldin Show, we’re joined by Nick Green, Co-Founder and CEO of Thrive Market, the online membership-based platform that’s transforming the way we shop for healthy and sustainable groceries. Since launching in 2014, Nick has led Thrive Market with one clear mission: to make high-quality, organic, and non-GMO products accessible and affordable for everyone.
During our conversation, Nick shares the inspiration behind Thrive Market’s launch, the early roadblocks the team overcame, and how they’ve scaled a values-driven business that now serves over 1.6 million members. We dive into how Thrive became the first online-only retailer to accept SNAP EBT, what it means to be a B Corp in the grocery space, and how they’re leading the charge in sustainability and regenerative agriculture. Nick also gives us a behind-the-scenes look at his leadership approach, the importance of staying mission-aligned while growing fast, and why he believes grocery brands have a responsibility to change the food system for the better.
Whether you're a mission-driven founder, a consumer curious about food transparency, or someone passionate about building businesses that give back, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss. Now on The Kara Goldin Show.

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Transcript

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. I want to be you. Just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked out, knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control. Control. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs and really, some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Kara Goldin show. Super, super excited for our next guest. I’ve been wanting to meet him for many, many years. Love, love his brand, and so excited to have him here. We have Nick Green, who is the co founder and CEO of Thrive Market. And if you do not know what Thrive Market is, boy, have you been missing life because it’s an incredible, incredible platform, membership based, online platform making healthy living more accessible, affordable and sustainable for all I was sharing with Nick that I think JJ virgin, who’s one of their early investors, turned me on to Thrive Market years ago, and definitely it’s it’s grown significantly. So started in 2014 into a mission driven powerhouse brand that it is today, with over 1,000,001 point 6 million paying members, and just an incredible, incredible business. So they’re on a mission to make organic, non GMO and sustainable products more accessible. They have a significant number of products that they’ve launched on their own, under their own label. So really, really have grown this brand into an incredible, incredible company. So I can’t wait to hear more about Nick’s journey, entrepreneurial journey, and the challenges, the triumphs, all of the things that go along with it. So Nick, thank you so much for coming on and so nice to meet you.

Nick Green 2:21
Well, thanks, Kara. I’m really excited to be here. And you know, before this interview, I was learning more about your journey too, so it’s a real honor to be having this conversation with a fellow entrepreneur.

Kara Goldin 2:31
Thank you so much. So okay, so I gave a little snippet of Thrive Market, but how do you describe it to friends and consumers that or potential consumers who haven’t touched the brand yet.

Nick Green 2:44
You gave a great, great intro. I mean, we always start with the mission. We are trying to make healthy and sustainable, living easy, affordable and accessible to anybody. We’ve been at it for a decade. So as you mentioned, we launched in 2014 celebrated our we call it our Thrive verse three. So 10 year Thrive bursary was in November of last year. We do have 1.6 million paid members. So the way our model works is members pay, a la Costco, about $60 a year, and then that gets you access to better prices on this curated assortment of sort of best in class, healthy, natural, organic products. Every product is screened. We accept less than 1% of products on platform. We go much earlier in the life cycle of brands and products, trying to bring them on earlier with more innovation, real innovation in the supply chain, especially in terms of ethical sourcing, sustainability, more health conscious. And our goal is to introduce people to Great products, great brands, in a way that makes it really simple and easy to understand what’s unique about those brands and products and how they map to your lifestyle. So it’s very personalized, not like, you know, an online version of a brick and mortar store, but rather, you know, every product we tag across 140 different metadata categories. So if someone comes in, you know, and your keto and your spouse is gluten free, and you have a kid that has a nut allergy, you know, click, click, click, and the whole thing filters down. And then over the last several years, we’ve also really enhanced that user experience with AI to, in fact, build the cart on behalf of the members initially. And so a lot of what we’re doing today, you know, when we started it was all about just breaking down the barrier of price and geography, right? So think about it like half Americans don’t live within driving distance of a Whole Foods, and 97% can’t afford the typical price premiums of organic. So those were the two barriers we really focused on today. We’re continuing to push those. But also, you know, figuring out, how do you make it easy? So if it’s affordable and it’s you can get it shipped anywhere in the country, as we do. But how do you then make it really simple to find the right products for you and not be intimidated or overwhelmed by where do I start? So

Kara Goldin 4:51
take me back to those days when you decided to start the company you had you were one of four co founders, right? Can you talk about how what inspired you to do it and how did it take off? Yeah,

Nick Green 5:07
I mean, the inspiration for me goes back 30 some years to my own childhood, growing up in the Twin Cities. So grew up outside of Minneapolis, Minnesota in the 90s, time and place where there was not a lot of great healthy options. And I happen to have a mom who was, I guess, an earlier adopter on organic, non GMO, all the things that now, you know, millions of people are aspiring to. My mom was focused on back then, and I just saw how hard she had to work to make it, make it happen. And from a budget standpoint, from a geographical access standpoint, but also just trying to figure out what’s what, and doing her own research. And it’s interesting at that time, you know, it was that there wasn’t very much information. Today, it’s almost the opposite problem, where there’s, like, too much information. You go online, you’re like, all right. It’s like carnivore diet. Good? Is vegan diet? Good? You know, you can see polar opposites, basically from different influencers and different sources telling you what’s healthy. And I think it really spins people up. But you know, my childhood was marked by really my mom reversing what had been prior to that generational cycles of ill health. So she was one of five kids. Grew up in a large Mexican American family, lot of diabetes, lot of obesity, a lot of the things that now are just absolutely epidemic in this country. And at that time, she was saying just very, you know, firsthand in her family, it was, she was determined to make it different for for ours. And so it was, you know, tough growing up where you’re like the kid on the block that can’t eat sugared cereal, no soda in the fridge or whatever. But I look back and like it really set that template for myself and for my siblings and I had, I had started a company in college, sold it, and came out to LA in 20, I guess, 2011 and was just sort of blown away by it was like the for I remember early on thinking like my mom would be in heaven in LA right and like farmers markets and health food stores all over the place, and people living this healthy lifestyle. And as I started living, you know that more myself in LA, once again, I looked and I was sort of thinking like, Wow. Is How do other people feel about this? And I think that the crazy thing, even at that time, even more so today, is it there really has been a sea shift of people wanting to be healthy. It’s like my mom was kind of on the island by herself back in the 90s. Today, you know, it’s not just about losing weight, it’s about actually being healthy. It’s not just about being healthy for yourself, but also, you know, living your values and contributing to mission driven brands. And so there is this whole conscious consumer movement. And yet, in 2014 when we started thrive, what blew my mind is that, you know, half Americans didn’t live near Whole Foods. Almost nobody could pay the price premiums of organic of organic food. And you know, with the exception of that reversal of, like the too little versus too much information, everyone’s kind of facing, or was kind of facing, the same barriers that my mom faced 30 years earlier or 20 years earlier. So I connected up with gunar, who had pretty much the most different upbringing that you could imagine from my own. He grew up on a hippie commune in Ohio, and he describes it this way, as a communal farm in Ohio California, where they were doing group buying organic food back in the 80s and 90s, and we sort of teamed up thinking like, could we bring how do we bring this to the masses? And brought in our third co founder, Sasha, who’s our CTO, still active in the business day to day, along with myself. Kate mulling was our sort of brand guru and content mastermind in the early days, and none of none of us knew each other prior to starting the business, so that was an adventure, but just each brought very different pieces to the equation, and all very personally connected to the mission in a way that I think set that template as a mission driven business from the beginning.

Kara Goldin 8:53
And what had you all done prior to starting Thrive Market?

Nick Green 8:58
So guna and I were both serial entrepreneurs, which I’m sure we’ll talk about this, but it ended up being a real liability because we were, you know, probably overconfident early on in the business that we’d be able to be successful again, like we’d been in the past. Sasha actually was as well. So he had been an engineer at Microsoft, before leaving to start an E commerce company that he’d recently sold. Kate had a background in editorial and brand so she had started a really sort of pioneering blog called the chalkboard back in like, I guess 2011 was one of the first that was doing health and wellness lifestyle content and like fusing this world of health, but also, but also, like lifestyle. And her background before that was in actually fashion writing. So it was, she had a real vision for how this was a becoming a lifestyle category and something that was aspirational and elevated much the way fashion or design had been in the past. And so yeah, it was like all very different backgrounds, like I said, Gennaro. In California. I was from the Midwest. Sasha grew up all over the world as mom was an Indian diplomat, and it was challenging in the sense that we were learning to getting to know each other as we were starting the business. You know, probably not a best practice, but but really valuable in that we each brought really different things to the table. And this is a business that’s operationally complex, where the margins are challenging, where you got to get to scale to drive profitability, and having the ability to divide and conquer across the founding team was actually a real superpower during those early years.

Kara Goldin 10:35
So were you always the CEO of the company? Login

Nick Green 10:39
and I were co CEOs for for several years, he ended up stepping into but, like, we were co CEOs, same title, but like, really still that dividing conquer, which I know people that usually the reaction I co CEO is like, Oh, that can’t work well. And it actually worked extraordinarily well for us. We have, like, super different styles, super different strengths. You know, both for better or worse, like became very was self aware of what our strengths and weaknesses were, and that became a value to the business, because we could really kind of divide the divide the rule effectively. And he ended up stepping into a Chief Strategy Officer role, like two or three years into the business, and then ultimately stayed on the board for for several years after that, but stepped out of operating. And I think that was also a real strength of our founding team, was, you know, different people play different roles at any time, and then over time, those roles also evolve, and that’s certainly been the case for us. So

Kara Goldin 11:36
the 2014 you launch, how long did it take before from the from, I guess when the four of you came together, you decided, Okay, we’re gonna launch Thrive Market, and that it finally launches in 2014 How long was that period of time? So

Nick Green 11:55
Gunnar and I met in mid 2013 we initially self funded the business. We brought on an agency to do the dev work, and we basically six months and realized we’d spent hundreds of $1,000 and had more or less nothing to show for it. So it was about like to answer the question directly. It was like a year to a year and a half, but it honestly was like the longest. It felt like five years, right? It was like the longest period that I’ve ever had in my entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurial career, because there were so many existential moments. And it was at those existential moments, actually, that we built the COVID team. So like, Sasha stepped in, and, you know, I remember when we first talked to him, he’s like, this is great. I love the mission. I’m happy to advise. I’ll put some money in, but I’m not sure I’m, I’m ready to put time into this. I think he saw some of the challenges and but we were at it. We were at a desperate state, and knew he was the right guy, and, like, fought for it. And it was a, it was a real crucible moment, because I remember when he came in, he built in basically three months what we had been unable to build, build and, you know, seven months before that. And similar thing with Kate, where, like, the brand, the the original name for the business was actually shop tribe. And we had, we had that. We had this idea of doing, like, group buying events for healthy food. So like, kind of a group bond for natural organic, was the original model. And eventually iterated towards membership, like, more towards what we are today, but we had still held on to this idea that the name was shop drive and Kate, like, right away is like, guys like, you have no idea what you’re talking about here. This is not a consumer brand, yeah. And so, yeah, it was we. And I would say, after that founding team came together, you know, we, we saw the power of having the right person at the right moment in the right role. And it’s one of the, I think the greatest strengths of our business is that the mission tends to attract that and we were able to really punch above our weight, bringing in great execs early in operations and merchandising. And I think, you know, looking back like gunar, and I really had no idea how challenging this business was, like, I said the operational complexity, like, we had to raise, like, truly, hundreds of millions of dollars before the business got profitable. And probably, if we had appreciated those facts, we might have been more hesitant to start the business. But, you know, it was one of those things where, like, as an entrepreneur, you believe in the mission, you know, where you’re headed, you kind of have some naivete, and you jump in the deep end. And then we were just really lucky that that mission attracted people, the right people at the right time, and got us to escape velocity.

Kara Goldin 14:38
So you talked a little bit about, you know, you jumped in, you had some hairy moments, you know, that definitely are memorable on the timeline. What were some of those early challenges in building that you felt like, wow, that was a big learning. Maybe you thought, I don’t know if we’re gonna make it or. Right? It’s, but you got through

Nick Green 15:03
totally, it’s like, you you look back at it, it’s like, and you think, you know, in the rear, in the rear view mirror, you obviously know that you were successful. But I will say, like, at the time you like, you don’t, and it is, it is harrowing, like that first year before we got launched, there were multiple existential moments, you know, for the brand, like for the technology, from a fundraising standpoint, you know, we’ve talked about this extensively, but we got rejected by every VC that we talked to, nobody. None of these VCs living in San Francisco, LA and New York, really understood the problem that we were trying to solve. And and it was, it was, like, demoralizing. It was a huge waste of time, right? We just, like, we spent so much time just fundraising. And ultimately turned to folks like JJ virgin, these like health and wellness influencers who had New York Times bestselling books and audiences online that ended up writing, you know, not big checks, but like 25 to $50,000 checks, times whatever to build, to build out the round, and that ended up being one of the best things that ever happened to us. So one theme, like throughout that first I would say, you know, couple years of the business was the greatest challenges ended up. And it sounds so, so cliche to say, but they really did end up catalyzing the kind of foundational, best decisions that we made in the business. It was like bringing in the influencers, building the right found the right founding team, you know, iterating to the membership model, because that’s something really different about the way we run our business. There’s very few businesses that are exclusively membership, and that powers the mission in the sense that every paid membership sponsors a membership for a low income family. It powers the pricing in that it gives us margin to then support lower pricing. It creates evangelists, right? Because when someone invests in the in the membership, they’re more likely to use it and they’re more likely to share with others. So we, we really did have a lot of challenges, but every one of those, in retrospect, were these moments that that really fortified the foundation of the business.

Kara Goldin 17:09
That’s awesome. Well, I love you mentioned JJ virgin using influencer audiences. I feel like to build the brand. I feel like you guys were really early. I mean, maybe a few people were doing it, but you were definitely early. We were

Nick Green 17:25
early, and we were one of the first to do it at real scale. And again, it was like we sort of stumbled into it. Because what made our influencer engine so powerful and continues to this day is that our influencers had skin in the game, right? So we didn’t just have these, these contractual agreements with them or pay to play things like they actually invested cash money into the business. And they also, like, we didn’t just bring in random people, like we brought in folks that really align. They had big audiences, yes, but more importantly, they actually aligned with the values of the business. Their audiences were focused on health and wellness. They were thought leaders in health, wellness, and usually in food. And we found that that that authenticity of the of the relationship, and then being able to say, I believed in this business, I believe in this business so much. I actually invested in them. It was a really powerful message. And and then that set the template for like, you know, once you have, like, a JJ virgin, you have some a mark Sisson or a wellness mama. You know, every one of them knows, you know, an order of magnitude more health and wellness influencers that are in their orbit. And so it really started to compound very early, and to this day, you know, over it’s like our largest paid channel is influencer, our largest channel overall for new new member acquisition is referral, which I think is very unusual too. So like our number one influencers, are actually our members who go and they just within their community, within the people they know, they share it. But then the largest paid channel is the is the influencer network. And then what we found over time is, you know, paid social is obviously very big for us, but I think businesses that try to build exclusively on Facebook or exclusively on like Tiktok, has now become big. But you you it’s a race to the bottom right. It’s very, very hard to break break through. And what we find is the influencer marketing really synergize as well with what we do on paid social, and the result is that we’re much more efficient than a typical really, than any e commerce business, certainly at our scale that I know of. And that gives us some of the the financial dynamics to continue scaling the business. So one of the things I’m proud of the fact that we’ve stayed with the mission as our through line over the last 10 years. But I’m also really proud of the fact that we actually have gotten profitable. We’ve been expanding profitability meaningfully. You know, we’re a business that’s debt free. We’re generating cash. And you know, one of the things that I’m excited about is is really as the the business continues to scale, and as our profile raises a little bit, being a touchstone for other businesses to see that the mission can be accretive to the. Business that you don’t have to choose between doing the right thing and doing the right thing for your business, that the two can go hand in hand. And it’s definitely been the case for us.

Kara Goldin 20:08
Yeah, definitely. So has membership always been since day one component of your overall business model? Or was that

Nick Green 20:17
and one of the it’s been very interesting to see businesses that try to tack on membership to sort of make their economics work after the fact, and it’s kind of like trying to tack on a mission when you didn’t have a real one at the beginning. It’s just so hard because the membership is a barrier to entry. So if you haven’t really invested in that, if you’re not committed to that model, you’re gonna see your conversion go down, and it’s a short term sort of drag, but it creates this long term more invested customer base, and like I said, evangelists, and for us, it was a forcing function to deliver enough value to justify the membership, where, you know, we’re not trying to just get a one off purchase from someone like you. If you’re going to sign up for Thrive Market, it has to be worth it to you to spend $60 for a full year of access. And so you know, our typical member today makes back their membership fee and two purchases, most of them are making back the membership fee multiple times over, just in savings and the entire like way that we think about the kind of flywheel of our business is just deliver more and more value to membership, right? The more of a no brainer membership becomes. The higher our renewal rates climb. The higher our renewal rates climb. You know, it’s a proxy for the value we’re delivering to members. And then you see higher referral rates, so more evangelism. And you know, we’re gonna we’re continuing to see those, those renewals climb, and that we look at touchstones like Costco, where you can really see them go high as the membership base titrates over time. But like already today, we’re over 70% renewal, which, you know, is incredible. It makes our business a lot easier to run than some of these subscription businesses, where they’re churning out so many, so many subscribers every year,

Kara Goldin 22:03
that’s amazing. So when I think about grocery and the complexities of, you know, labels, and some of this is your product, other products you’re actually sourcing to bring in, but when you think about all the health claims that are out there. I mean, that can be really confusing for consumers. How does thrive? Or can you share? I should say, how Thrive really helps consumers kind of cut through the noise of that.

Nick Green 22:32
Yeah. Well, the first, I mean, the first thing starts with, structurally, most retailers are carrying in the categories that we cover, 10s of 1000s of SKUs, and so it becomes very difficult and very expensive just to invest like if you have that many items, that many brands that you’re sourcing from, and in traditional grocery you’re typically going through a middleman, a distributor. You just can’t really control quality in the way that is needed if you’re going to make it easy for people and and have high quality standards to start with. So our first like pillar, there is ultra curation. So like, we have 6000 SKUs instead of 30 or 40,000 SKUs, that means we have fewer brands. It means we can go direct the brands. It means we can invest more time and energy doing the real like sourcing, diligence, understanding their supply chains, and then upholding quality standards that are much higher. And then we use those quality standards, obviously, as the filter that curates the brand. So you know, if you go on Amazon you look for almond butter, you’re gonna find dozens and dozens of results. You’ll find plenty of almond butters on thrive, but it’s going to be a lot fewer, but you know that they’re all that they’re all high quality. And then it also allows us to tag all the products across these metadata categories, so that you can filter down and search for the products that are right for you. And I alluded to this before, but today, a lot of that filtering, which was done manually before by the members, is now done automatically using machine learning, where you know you come in, you take an onboarding quiz, and literally, we’re seeing over half of the products that people purchase on their first order are loaded in the card by our AI. So it’s, it’s like totally changing the way people shop and making it simpler and easier. But it starts with having real curation. It starts with having a mission that makes you willing to have quality standards. That will have they will have trade offs, right? There are big brands that we don’t carry because they don’t meet our standards that we can do millions of dollars in sales on if we did, and being willing to make some of the short term sacrifices and maintain the ultra curated assortment has been super, super key for that. And then the other really nice thing is, because we go direct, because we have fewer products and brands, because we can bring them on faster, we also tend to get in with brands earlier, or, like, getting the we’re getting them earlier in their life cycle. We’re getting more of their innovation. So like brands love to launch new products with Thrive Market. Right? And then more and more we started to do, like you mentioned this before that we now have our own brand, Thrive Market. We actually have several control brands in different categories. So, you know, the Thrive Market Family of Brands is itself a very significant nine, nine figure business, and a lot of that, we actually collaborate with the third party brands to build. So like we’ll work with a third party brand as a co Packer on an own brand item, or we’ll do a co branded thing with them where, like we can drive innovation that they may not be able to take broader to retail, but works on thrive. And let’s then test into things that are even higher quality standards so

Kara Goldin 25:36
interesting. So do you think you would take that out the Thrive brand out to non Thrive stores, I guess. So

Nick Green 25:43
we’ve had a lot of knocks on the door, I’ll say, and and there’s really no incentive for us to do that, right? We feel like it’s a really valuable part of the value proposition of membership, that these are products you can only find on Thrive Market. Again, we’re doing nine figures of sales just on thrive with the own brand. And I think one of the things that’s also been critical to our success, and at the points where we’ve had made mistakes, we’ve we’ve, we sometimes lost sight of, is just knowing what we’re good at and knowing what we’re not and not trying to do too much like, we already have a very complex business, and I think about that, less of like, Hey, we’re not going to do this, and more like, we’re going to sequence it. So, for example, like, we started with just non perishable, and we actually tried fresh very early on, saw how hard it was and said, Wait, we’re not going to do this yet. We will do fresh at some point. In fact, we’ve, we’ve tested and piloted it recently, but we’re waiting to do that till we have the scale and the infrastructure and the demand to make it work. You know, we didn’t launch frozen until four years ago, when we had the scale, the demand, the infrastructure to do it. We’ve actually recently frozen was the one part of the business we actually did with the three PL and then we brought that in house just this past year. So we’ve been very, I would, in some ways conservative, unlike, when do we launch new categories? When do we take, like people ask, When are you going to go international? Well, we have 1.6 million members in the US. There’s 300 million house or 100 million households, 300 million Americans. Like, we’re still very early just in this market. And so I do think we whether it’s with doing brick and mortar, doing international expanding categories, it’s not that we’ll never do those things. It’s really sequencing them to where we are really great at things we’re already doing before we take on the next step. So

Kara Goldin 27:37
advice to founders, new founders, looking at building something as you have from scratch beyond don’t do it

Nick Green 27:51
the so it’s a great, great caveat. I think the advice is really the opposite. It’s do it. Yeah, and know that you will likely look back and say, had I known everything I know now, I probably wouldn’t have done it. And that’s okay, right? Because it is harder than you can expect. There are things like, there’s just things you can’t know when you start. And that’s actually one of the, I think, advantages of being an entrepreneur, like coming into something that you have a different perspective on you may not you don’t know everything about and I think once you jump into the deep end, like you figure out a way to swim. And the thing that we again, the thing that we found at Thrive was the mission has been a superpower like it is just that North Star. You always come we come back to it on every decision that we make, every big decision that we make, the power of people that you know, if you get the every single problem can be solved by the right person. You know it’s not true that you can sell, or at least for me, that I can solve every problem, but every problem can be solved by the right person. So I think the message is, do it. It’ll be harder than you expect. They’re going to be multiple existential moments. But if you have a North Star and then kind of maintain flexibility with everything else, and have the right people plugged into the right problems, and it sounds like a lot, but that’s it really comes down to, to that,

Kara Goldin 29:13
no, I think that’s that’s so true. So what are you most excited for coming up? I’m excited

Nick Green 29:19
for the next, the next decade, you know, again, we’re, we’re 10 years in, we did over 700 million in sales last year. We’ve been profitable for the last several years. We’re expanding our profitability. Like, there’s so much that’s really exciting right now, but what gets me excited is where we can be in 10 years, like, knowing that, like, we can continue to compound this business and really succeed at that mission of making healthy living accessible to anybody, and we’ve done a lot so far, but in the grand scheme of things, like we’re less than 2% penetrated on US households, even for our existing members, we’re only five plus percent of their of their existing basket. So there’s a lot of room to just. Keep pushing this movement forward. Yeah,

Kara Goldin 30:02
definitely. Well, you guys have done such a nice job of building this brand. And if anyone listening has not been to Thrive Market, definitely check it out. And the membership is is hugely worth it. So Nick you and your co founders have done an amazing job. So congratulations, and very excited for everything the next 10 years and everything coming up. I love your energy and everything that you guys are doing. So it’s very, very exciting to get to finally meet you and hear a lot more about your journey. So thank you again, and thank you everyone for listening. So Dick green, co founder and CEO of Thrive Market. Thanks so much. Thanks Kara. Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit. And of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast, just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms. At Kara Goldin, I would love to hear from you too. So feel free to DM me, and if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal, best selling book, undaunted, where I share more about my journey, including founding and building. Hint, we are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks for listening, and goodbye for now. You.

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