Shan Berries: CEO of Shades By Shan

Episode 792

On today’s episode, we welcome Shan Berries, CEO of Shades By Shan — the inclusive, high-quality beauty brand built on representation, community, and real impact.
Shan’s journey is one of reinvention and purpose. After more than a decade in TV and radio, she took a leap of faith in 2018 and co-founded Shades By Shan with her sister Erika. Inspired by growing up with a single mother, Shan built the brand with giving back at its core. A portion of every purchase supports single parents through the MamaBerries Foundation, which has already helped more than 100 families across the U.S. Along the way, Shades By Shan has earned national recognition, viral bestsellers, and placement in major retailers including JCPenney.
In this episode, Shan shares how she pivoted from media to entrepreneurship, how mission and community can fuel brand loyalty, and what it really takes to stand out in a crowded beauty category. We talk about building products people love, scaling with purpose, the realities of retail and virality, and why representation in beauty still matters deeply. This conversation is packed with insight for founders, creators, and anyone building a brand rooted in authenticity and impact.

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Transcript

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up, that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. I want to be you. Just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked out, knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control. Control, control. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs and really, some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. This episode of the Kara Goldin show is brought to you by LinkedIn. Jobs. When you’re building a business, having the right people in the right roles changes everything. And as you look ahead to 2026 whether you’re growing your team or tightening it, hiring with intention, matters more than ever. That’s where LinkedIn jobs comes in. LinkedIn jobs, AI assistant helps you identify qualified candidates faster and with greater confidence. So you’re not just filling seats, you’re building a team that sticks. In fact, LinkedIn hires are 30% more likely to stay at least a year compared to the leading competitor, and that kind of retention makes a real difference. And finding the right hire doesn’t have to feel overwhelming with LinkedIn jobs AI assistant, you can skip the guesswork and jargon. It filters candidates based on your roles specific criteria, and highlights top matches, so you’re not wasting time digging through endless resumes. When you’re running a business, you need a hiring process that’s fast and focused. Linkedin’s ai assistant delivers 25 strong candidate suggestions each day, giving you the chance to invite the right people to apply and keep the process moving. It’s a smarter, faster way to hire, and it’s why I rely on LinkedIn jobs. Hire right the first time, post your job for free at linkedin.com/kara Goldin then promote it to use LinkedIn jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates that’s linkedin.com/kara Goldin to post your job for free, Terms and Conditions apply. Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Kara Goldin Show. Today, I’m so excited to be joined by a fellow Bay Area entrepreneur, Shan Berries is the founder and CEO of Shades by Shan. And if you have not heard of this incredible, incredible beauty brand, you’re going to be just blown away. So an inclusive, high quality makeup brand built on purpose, representation and real impact, after spending more than a decade in TV and radio, Shan made a bold pivot in 2018 stepping out of media, I guess, for a moment, and into entrepreneurship. Alongside her sister Erica, she launched Shades by Shan, not just to create standout beauty products, but to build a brand with heart. And boy has she ever so inspired by growing up with a single mom Shan Embedded Giving directly into the business model. We’ll talk a little bit more about what she has done with Mama Berry’s Foundation, which is oh so cool and Shades by Shan has since grown into a nationally recognized brand with viral best sellers, strong retail partnerships and a loyal community. So I cannot wait to hear a lot more from Shan all about how she’s fueled this growth and exactly what she’s seeing as she launches this beautiful brand in a crowded market. So Shan, welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Super excited to have you.

Shan Berries 4:10
I’m so excited. I have to start by bay area because, you know, Bay Area girlies there. We’re far and few between nowadays. You know,

Kara Goldin 4:19
I love it. And Shan actually is on a local station as well, so you may hear her in the afternoon. Yeah, one Oh, 6.5

Shan Berries 4:31
on mix. And I’m on from three to seven. So on your drive home from work or picking up the babies from school, I’ll be on there, so make sure to tune in.

Kara Goldin 4:40
That’s awesome. Well, okay, so for listeners just hearing about Shades by Shan, how do you describe the brand and what does it stand for today?

Shan Berries 4:50
So we are an impact driven social enterprise. How I like to call it? We are not just beauty. We are giving back. And any time you. Shop Shades by Shanna cosmetics, a portion of proceeds goes to help single parents in need, because my sister Erica and I were both raised by a single mom here in San Francisco, first generation immigrants, and we saw how hard she had to struggle sometimes, you know, being by herself, English not being her first language, and us not having that support and that family here, because she came with nobody. So when we were starting Shades by Shan, because I was that everyday girl, you know, going to these big box retailers and spending my whole paycheck on makeup and just to be go home and kind of be disappointed sometimes in the quality and consistency. I had this idea because also you didn’t see representation with Latina brands like you didn’t see Latina brands on shelves. And so I had this idea. I went to my sister and I said, Hey, why don’t we start our own because our mom also instilled that in us is someday you have to start your own business, because you’re never going to make money working for somebody else. And that really stuck with me, because being in radio and television, like all I know is how to talk. I don’t know this, you know, Excel or Google Drive or all these technical things and so, but I knew makeup, and I knew good and bad. So when we were looking for charities to donate proceeds to, because that was important for us, we couldn’t find any that solely focused on giving back to single parents in need. And so we started our own 501, c3, and we named it mama berries, because I go by shamberies, my mom goes by mama berries, and we named it in honor of her, the mama berries nonprofit foundation. So anytime you buy our makeup, it goes to a good cause, and it goes to helping single parents. And we didn’t realize that it was going to become and snowball into what it is today, but we’ve been able to help hundreds of single parent families with financial assistance across the United States, because, as you know, single parents, you know you’re on one income, and it’s tough. You hit tough times, and not having that support and that resource, we are that resource for single parents. And we help with, you know, when times get tough like daycare, car payments, oh, you’re at PG and E, Bill, we are that scrappy brand. We are not scared of getting our hands dirty and being in the trenches and and that’s what we do. And we started with two products. Now we have over 200 products, and it’s been such a crazy journey.

Kara Goldin 7:45
This episode of the Kara Goldin show is brought to you by LinkedIn. Jobs. When you’re building a business, having the right people in the right roles changes everything. And as you look ahead to 2026 whether you’re growing your team or tightening it. Hiring with intention matters more than ever. That’s where LinkedIn jobs comes in. LinkedIn jobs AI assistant helps you identify qualified candidates faster and with greater confidence. So you’re not just filling seats, you’re building a team that sticks. In fact, LinkedIn hires are 30% more likely to stay at least a year compared to the leading competitor, and that kind of retention makes a real difference. And finding the right hire doesn’t have to feel overwhelming with LinkedIn jobs. Ai assistant, you can skip the guesswork and jargon. It filters candidates based on your roles, specific criteria and highlights, top matches, so you’re not wasting time digging through endless resumes. When you’re running a business, you need a hiring process that’s fast and focused. Linkedin’s ai assistant delivers 25 strong candidate suggestions each day, giving you the chance to invite the right people to apply and keep the process moving. It’s a smarter, faster way to hire, and it’s why I rely on LinkedIn jobs. Hire right the first time, post your job for free at linkedin.com/kara Goldin then promote it to use LinkedIn jobs, new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates. That’s linkedin.com/kara Goldin to post your job for free. Terms and Conditions apply. I love it. So you spent over a decade in TV and radio. How do you think that that career helped you to launch the career that you’re in now?

Shan Berries 9:46
Totally so it’s funny, because my mom also instilled, like como te Ven te tratan, how they see you is how they treat you. And she said you always have to go to work looking your best. And it was hard because. I was doing Morning Show radio for 12 years, and I had to wake up at 330 in the morning to do my makeup and my hair and put on a cute outfit and like, and it would be those days where I’m like, I’m just gonna go in a hoodie and some Uggs and just a beanie. And those days would be like, Oh, well, pit Bull’s here and you’re going to interview him, and Selena Gomez is passing by, and you Yeah, like, Flo Rida is here. Are you ready to interview him? And I’m like, Oh my gosh, why is it always the days that I don’t do, I don’t do my makeup, you know? And so I really needed to figure out a way to look my best do my makeup in a quick, fast way so that I looked ready when I needed to be ready, and I didn’t want to spend hours and hours because I didn’t have that I might I needed to sleep, I needed to wake up so super early, and so I kind of mastered this little way of doing my makeup in under 10 minutes, because I learned my lesson those times where it’s like, okay, you look like crap, and you have these huge opportunities. Well, there, that’s your lesson. So that really got me into, you know, I’ve always loved makeup and and it kind of just got me into just find, trying to find, like, the latest and greatest every and I was obsessed with going into these big box retailers and being like, Okay, what’s on, what’s out there, what can I buy? Oh, what’s, what’s the new innovation that they have? And then also buying stuff that I was like, Oh, let me buy this lipstick that I’ve been wearing for the past five years, just to go back home and be like, what they changed the formula. Like, this isn’t in the right shade, like, what’s going on here? So I think that all kind of gave me this little, this little base, but I also saw this was right when the big influencers Were coming out with their makeup lines, and I was that girl with 17 computer screens open being like, Hey, did you login? Like, getting all my co workers to try to help me get these, these lip kits and palettes, and just to finally get them, and be like, but this shit sucks. Like, what are we doing here, you know? And I just can’t imagine that. Like, what, you know, people are excited to receive this product, and it’s not good. So that’s kind of when I was like, Well, you know, I don’t have a huge following. I’m not in the millions. I think maybe at that point I had maybe 5000 followers. But to me, I go, you know, I have a little bit of a following here in the Bay. And I, I know good makeup from, you know, why can’t I come out with something like that, you know, I’m over here judging them. Why can’t I do it? And so that’s when I kind of had this idea, and it was just supposed to be a side hustle. It was just to, like, make money and and I never thought in a million years it would get to this point. But it kind of coincided with my sister Erica. She was living abroad in Asia for 12 years, and she I told her my idea, and she is the, you know, she is very alpha, data driven, analytical, businessy person. And I told her my idea, she’s like, listen, I think this is great. I’m getting burnt out here. I want to move back home. I want to set roots down. If you’re serious about your idea, I will help you start your business, and in six months, I’ll leave you to it, and I’ll let you take it from there. And it’s been almost eight years, and she’s still by my side. And, yeah, do everything together.

Kara Goldin 13:36
That’s so great. So you launched so you’re online, DTC, you also launched in Amazon, and then you made the decision to launch with JCPenney. So what, how did that all come about with the partnership with JCPenney, and what have you learned about, I guess, the differences between retail and D to C, totally.

Shan Berries 14:03
So with D to C, it’s funny because, again, we didn’t know anything. Like, we didn’t know we had our whole shop set up on GoDaddy. And the night before we were gonna launch our cousin who had, like, a small t shirt brand, he was like, No, you need to be on Shopify. Like, that’s where you see all your analytics. Analytics. You see all your data, like, you need to be on Shopify. And we’re like, Oh my gosh. So that night, we stayed up till three o’clock in the morning, shifting everything, you know, not everything. We had two products, but like, you know, trying to make it look cute over and figuring out how to even use Shopify, not even knowing how to use a label printer, not knowing that you needed to even have a PO Box, like we it was like we learned everything from scratch in our mom’s garage. That was where we had our that’s where we started. So really learning DTC, I remember. Remember when we started shipping out products in, you know, little bubble mailers. Our return address was our mom’s house, and one of our, one of the people that bought it, they’re like, Hey, I just Google, Googled this address, and it looks like it’s might be your mom’s house. You might want to think about changing that. So literally, when I tell you, we started from nothing and making all the mistakes, and that’s how we learned along the way. And so when and again, shipping out of our mom’s house, like we we and even my sister was like, Don’t tell anybody, like we work from her garage, and like, we ship out from garage, and we house the makeup here, like people might get grossed out and like, don’t say it. And I’m like, oh, okay, yeah, we won’t we, I won’t, we won’t say it. But like, I’m sure everybody knew, but they just didn’t care. They just wanted to support and that was a huge pivotal point for us, because when we did launch Shades by Shan officially and the mama berries nonprofit foundation. The day we launched, we sold out of our inventory that we thought we would last us six months. And that’s amazing. What just happened, like what just happened here,

Kara Goldin 16:16
and how did the JCPenney partnership come about?

Shan Berries 16:19
Well, so we just started growing very slowly but surely. And someone from JC Penny bought our stuff, and they sent an email to the head buyer of JC Penny and said, Hey, I discovered this brand and their nonprofit organization, and if you don’t hop on them, some other retailer will, and you’re forever going to regret it. And when I saw this email, I go, I called my sister because I was having the crummiest day. I just had had a baby that was also sprung on me, which was a surprise, and had was going through a lot of postpartum depression as well, and I was just having a really bad day. But I get this email from this person, from JC Penney, and I called my sister, I go Erica, I I think we’re gonna get into JC Penney. And she’s like, What? What are you talking about? And so we set up the meetings. And it’s just yeah, so when we got the new and what’s also crazy too is that we thought that we were just going to be kind of piloted into some of the local stores here in the Bay, you know, maybe the San Bruno location and Hayward and San Jose, maybe, you know, some local stores. And we were super excited, even to just have a chance in maybe three or four stores. But when we when we finished our last meeting, they go, No, we actually want every single one of your products, and we want to bring them into every single store we have in the nation, into 610 stores. And I’m rejoicing with our our CMO Juan, who has also been by our side. Me and Juan are just like, rejoicing like, oh my gosh, yes, we made it. And I remember closing the computer and my sister being like, Yeah, but how the fuck are we gonna do that? Like, like, that takes money, which we don’t have. So hysterical, yeah, it’s just, you know, and because, again, she’s the like, data analytical one, she’s like, Oh, no, this, this is just never gonna work. And we went, and I’m telling you, we went to every single bank, every single loan shark, we went to every single place we could think of to loan us the money. And everybody said, No. Everybody said they’re like, you don’t have anything to show you don’t have any collateral. You don’t have anything you guys just started, like, who are you? You know, no one wanted to take the chance because it was, you know, gonna be a very hefty loan for some, for people that had just started. Had just started a couple years ago. So we actually had to go back to JC Penney and have, and we, we’re gonna have to gracefully decline, because we just we can’t do it. And like, as much as we want to, like, we’ve tried everything, and we can’t do it. And JC Penney came back and they said, We believe in shades. By Shan, so much. We believe that you’re gonna be the next big thing, and we’re gonna front you the money, and they fronted us the money to get in.

Kara Goldin 19:34
Wow, that’s, that’s amazing. That is. So that’s such a great story. Yay for JC Penney, I mean, that’s, that’s incredible, well, and what’s the lesson learned there? I mean, there’s always a way if you don’t ask, you don’t receive, right? I mean, there’s, there’s got to be, I think so much of the time you think this isn’t going to happen. And. And, oh, well, but those people that actually go and figure it out like you did, are the ones that actually make it happen.

Shan Berries 20:09
Yeah, and, you know, it’s so funny, because we didn’t know that you could do that, like we didn’t know that was a thing. And the more we talked to people in retail, they’re like, Sham, but that is not a thing. Like, that does not happen. You are like, that’s that does that’s not a thing. And I’m like, wow. Like, I we just, we feel so blessed. And JC, Penney has been such an incredible partner, but there were so many other people. They’re like, you don’t want to go into big box retailers. They’re gonna eat you alive. They’re gonna drain you. They’re gonna, you’re gonna, they’re gonna eat you up. And it’s been nothing short than amazing. So if we would have listened to that noise as well, we would have never taken the opportunity or the chance, and they’ve changed our life. So yeah, very a lot of lessons learned there.

Kara Goldin 20:59
That’s awesome. So how do you so do you ship directly to them, and then do you need a lot of staff to make sure that it’s stocked and things like that?

Shan Berries 21:10
That’s another funny story. Is that when JC Penney was finally like, Okay, well, let’s talk logistics. Do you have a loading dock where we can send our JC Penney trucks and me, Erica and Juan were like, we have a loading ramp. It’s our mom’s driveway, you know? Like, we didn’t have that infrastructure set in place for Shades by Shan we were still packaging orders out of our mom’s garage. And they go, yeah, that’s not gonna work. We need a, you know, three PL, warehouse situation. We’re like, Oh my gosh. Like, how do we even do that? And and learning logistics and transportation and import, export and like all of that, is a whole other language that we also had to learn ourselves quickly and swiftly, because we didn’t want to miss out on this opportunity. So we went out and we have a warehouse at three PL that JC Penney trucks go to. But we also recently got one on the east coast as well. So we have two warehouses where we house our makeup. So it’s, it’s kind of a pinch me moment where it’s like, oh my gosh, there’s, it’s, there’s so much of it. And, and we have to, we had to kind of make some moves and and get that warehouse so, so that was a whole other lesson.

Kara Goldin 22:36
You mentioned some of the products that you launched with. So you launched with two. Now you have over 200 the mission is a fan favorite shade. How do you decide which products and shades to bring to market, but also the names? I love them. So, so great.

Shan Berries 22:56
So some of you’ll see for people shopping on our site or at JC Penney or on Amazon? A lot of the names are people that helped raise us. So in our highlighter palette, there’s Dora luchi, Irma and Marjorie, and those were our aunts, or like my mom’s friends that you know were, are like our aunts, and we wanted to pay honor to we wanted to honor them, because they were our village and helped us tremendously when my mom, when my mom, like, needed help. So that’s our in our highlighter palette, and then some of our lip glosses, like Gabriella is our cousin, Luna is Juan’s last name, and so everything has a meaning for us and a special a special place in our heart. And whenever we’re launching products, we go straight to our customers, believe it or not, like we have relationships, they are our community. And when we are looking to launch and make new innovation, we essentially create focus groups with our followers and our customers, and we’re like, what do you guys want? What is missing from the assortment? What is on your wish list from Shades by Shan? And they will tell us, and we’re like, noted, boom, all right, we’re on it. And we will take whatever they want, because they are our P ones. They are the ones that are that rally for us. And believe it or not, like we’ve never had something go mega viral. We’ve never had that aha, sell out moment. From an influencer standpoint, we never had an influencer. You know, talk about us and we sell out. Everything has been through word of mouth. Everything has been organic through our community, people spreading the word, people talking about us, and that, to me, makes me feel prouder, you know, honestly, because, yeah, it would have been, it’s it would be freaking awesome if an influencer would just post about us organically and like we have all this growth, but it’s been so. Slow, incremental, and it’s been the our community that’s really exploded us, and little by little by little. And so for us, we’re just so grateful for that. We’re so grateful to them, and that’s why we do a lot of community events. We do parties for them. We don’t do these big, lavish influencer parties. We’re like, Hey, we’re gonna do a pop up at our local mints and honey coffee shop in Burlingame. Like, come through, get color matched. Let’s take some cute pictures together. And, like, let’s, you know, how are your kids? How was the baby shower? Like, like, you know, where’s your registry? I want to send your baby something like, that is how we build that’s how the relationship we have with our community. And I think a lot of brands don’t have that, and it’s probably why Shades by Shan is where it is, because our community just goes hard for us and we’re so appreciative.

Kara Goldin 25:55
Where have the majority of people found you in terms of social media? I know you. You’re the gel eyeliner went viral on Tiktok no magazine and, yeah, look where is there one platform in particular, I would say, Ipsy.

Shan Berries 26:13
Ipsy has been a huge marketing channel for us, and we’ve been, we’ve done over 10 million boxes with them, and people all over the United States and now in Mexico, are getting our box, are getting these boxes, and then they’re like, Oh, what is this brand? And they’re like, Wait, this is awesome. I want more of this. And then they go to JC Penney to replenish, or they come to our DTC, and that’s how we’ve gotten a lot of growth through our products, being in the Ipsy boxes. And another crazy story about Ipsy is that they actually came knocking before JCPenney. And I remember being at Las pencas da Kara here in South City with my sister and Juan, and we get this email from Ipsy, and they said, hey, we’d like to, we’d like to have have a conversation with you. They wanted to put 100,000 of our units in their boxes. And we were, you know, ecstatic, right? And then again, we’re looking for a loan. How do we get money? Because 100,000 units, that’s like $100,000 right? You know, that takes money, so we try to get loans. My mom was like, do I need to refinance my house? Do I sell my house? And we’re like, No, Mom, like, if anything, we need to help pay off this house, you know, like, no, no, we don’t. We’re not going to refinance. We’re not doing anything. So we had to go to Ipsy. And again, we were like, we have to gracefully decline at this time, like we’re so bummed, but we’re just we can’t. We just can’t. We’re not in the space to do that. So a couple months later, they reached out to us again, and they go, Hey, you guys have been buzzing a lot in our office. You guys have still been like the talk in our office, and we want to have a conversation. Let’s see how we can make this happen. And they made it happen. And again, it’s like these blessings are just, they’re they’re incredible, and they do happen. And when your product is good, and when you lead with kindness, and when you do good by the community and free like, the more you give, the more you receive. And maybe it doesn’t happen, and people say it doesn’t happen, but it does. And, yeah, definitely, Oh, definitely, such a great partner, partner as well. We won the best indie brand in 2024 with them, they gave us a Times Square billboard. It was just like, I can’t make this up. Like we started, like, not knowing how to even put things on Shopify. Like we started with two products. We, you know, we, we didn’t even know how to use a label printer. My mom was taking our our packages to the post office for us every day until they kicked us out. And they’re like, No, you have no she would take us to the UPS store, and then UPS kicked us out. They’re like, No, you guys are bringing too many packages in here, and the postman getting upset with us because he has to bring it all to the post office. You got to go directly there.

Kara Goldin 29:17
So I love it. You know what? I’m I’m just, I want to just ask a couple more questions on here. So, so what’s been the hardest moment in your entrepreneurial journey so far? I always tell people when you’re you’re launching it, and you get it out there, and hopefully you’re successful, but then scaling is also hard as well. But what, what has that taught you? What has been the hardest and what has that taught you?

Shan Berries 29:46
I think the hardest part for me has been not coming from the beauty world and starting anew in this crazy, saturated market and just real. Realizing that it’s very small, and it’s all who you know, but having to shake as many hands as possible, and really starting from nothing, like, Who is this girl? Like, who is Who does she think she is? Like, I would, you know, walk into the room and not know anybody, and just realize, like, man, like people just like, I’m start, I’m starting from nothing, like, I don’t have any name for myself, even though, like, I came from radio and television, and I wasn’t allowed to talk about Shades by Shan on the radio. I wasn’t allowed to promote myself in the past. So really, starting in a whole new world was scary and kind of just reinventing myself, because when I left radio, I was like, I’m gonna make this thing blow up if it is the the last thing I do. And I don’t know I’m not, I don’t know how I’m gonna do it, but I’m gonna do it. And realizing that there’s no such thing as an overnight success. Things take time. And also the hardest part was, you know, yeah, scaling, when that time was learning the retail world was very scary, like, are you going to tank our business? Is this going to be a good partnership? We’re taking a huge chance. Is it the right decision? That was, that was the hardest, because I, I again, like I now, and by this point, you know, I had a baby. I have a family like I, I’m my, they’re depending on me. Like, what you You never know what the right move is, but you just have to take the move and go with it. So, yeah, learning the retail space was was extremely challenging as well. And learning that a UPI, APC, Udi, like, all these codes, I’m like, what does this all mean? And, and, yeah, the logistics that comes with it, and, and timelines and suppliers and transportation from other countries. So it is, it’s been a lot, but they say if it’s easy, anybody would do it, right? So if it’s challenging, we’re gonna go for it.

Kara Goldin 32:26
I love it well, Shan, thank you so much for joining me today. You have done such an amazing job building this incredible brand, and we Shades by Shan is available at Amazon, on the website in JCPenney, and I’m sure, in the future, and a lot more places for everyone listening, be sure to check them out on social as well. We’ll have all the info in the show notes too, but I’ll see you all next time on the Kara Goldin show. And thank you again. Shan, really, such such great products, such a great company. You are terrific. And I really appreciate all that you’re doing.

Shan Berries 33:10
Thank you so much for having me, my kids drink hint water. That’s only kind of little drinks that I’ll have them have. So this has been a full circle moment for me. I’m so happy we got to connect.

Kara Goldin 33:22
Thank you so much. Anne, thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit. And of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin, I would love to hear from you too, so feel free to DM me, and if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal, best selling book, undaunted, where I share more about my journey, including founding and building hint we are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks for listening, and goodbye for now.

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