Mike Weber: Co-Founder & CEO of ‎Frutero Ice Cream

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be, you just want to make sure you will get knocked down. But just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi, guys, it’s Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. And I’m super excited to have my next guest. Here we have Mike Weber, who is the co founder and CEO of for Taro. And today I’m going to be chatting with Mike, who story began, I guess, in some ways, from a trip to India, is this right? So we’ll, we’ll talk a little bit more about that. And, you know, his his passion for tropical fruit ice cream kind of happened by accident, which is the story of I think, all great entrepreneurs, he wasn’t planning on starting this. But when he stumbled upon this idea, he really thought that it was needed in in the US, so he would be able to probably eat it and share it with other people. So he now owns and operates this, this tropical ice cream company called for Taro. It’s distributed in over 3000 stores. It’s growing very quickly. super high quality fruits with from various tropical countries, or at least, that’s where the the fruits originated. And they are just super super tasty, eclectic flavors. And I’m super excited to have you on Mike. So thanks for coming.

Mike Weber 2:07
Thank you so much excited to be here.

Kara Goldin 2:09
So let’s start. You didn’t plan on being an entrepreneur. It sounds it sounds like so let’s talk about kind of the early days before founding for Taro, what, what did you do? Yeah, what were you up to?

Mike Weber 2:22
Yeah, so I grew up in Connecticut. My old family lives there. And then I went to school at University of Maryland. I studied biology, and I studied finance. And right after school I went to consulting was there for four years, I worked just so happen to work for one of the largest ice cream companies. But I really wanted to have a more startup experience. So I left that I went to work for a tech company in the beer industry. And that company ended up getting acquired by Anheuser Busch. And I worked very closely with the founders there and was just amazed by their journey and that founder experience, and I wanted to have that journey for myself. So after that, I went back to school, I did my MBA at Wharton. And on the first day of class, I met the guy that would become my co founder of Don Cebu, we are actually assigned to sit next to each other on the first day of class. That’s wild.

Kara Goldin 3:14
And did you know right away, like I mean, what were some of the early conversations that you had with them that you just thought like, he was like, your other half for business? I mean, what was it that you just did? I mean, did you enjoy him, you thought that he sort of, you know, brought in something different into your life that you didn’t have?

Mike Weber 3:35
When I came to school, my back to school, I wanted to start my own business. And in our early conversations, I was telling to Don all the time, hey, when I get out of here, I want to employ myself. And after about a month of talking about that, he said, Look, Mike, you’ve been talking about this for a month, I want to do the same thing. Let’s get going. Let’s do something together. So we started brainstorming different ideas. We ended up having 82 different ideas, all sorts of things, not only food and beverage of all different things. But what was interesting was actually one of our early conversations was about our experience in tropical regions. And Madonna, we are from totally opposite sides of the earth. He grew up in India. I grew up in Connecticut, but we both have the strong connections to the tropics for him. Growing up in India, his grandfather had a mango farm. So when he has mangoes he’s brought back to those experiences. And for me, my family, we go on vacation to Hawaii and Mexico and we enjoyed guavas in Hawaii and passionate fruits and Mexico. That’s how I associate those fruits. And we recognize that you know, we’re not alone. In this. You have a 5 million people in the US who have some cultural connection to the tropics, whether it’s India or Latin America and Southeast Asia, right have this connection to the fruits and you have pre COVID 10s of millions of people like me who have traveled to tropical regions have tried to fruit and really have those strong memories of the fruits and Butera was all about reconnecting people to those tropical experiences through all natural foods with delicious fruits.

Kara Goldin 5:09
Talk about, you know, you went to India, were you looking for an idea for ice cream? I mean, obviously, you had that was when you were working at an ice cream company or

Mike Weber 5:18
so this is I was, I was at school. And this is when the dad and I were kind of brainstorming different ideas. And one of the, one of the first things that he said here was, you know, in India, we have all these amazing fruits. And we have this one particular chain of ice cream stores, it’s all these tropical flavors. And I can’t believe that people in the US don’t have it. So in January of 2020, I was going on a trip to India, and he recommended I try the atrium, and I was there. So actually, first day landed Mumbai, go to the hotel, grab a few friends and go straight to this ice cream place. And we tried the ice cream. And it was absolutely delicious. And there were some fruits, I knew I knew coconut, I knew mango. But a lot of fruits that I didn’t know at the time, I definitely did not know what a guanabana was, or a soursop. But it was it was so delicious. And we came back to the US and we were looking for just that fruit icing, of course, you must have it here in the US. And we went to Whole Foods went to acne when all of us couldn’t find it anywhere. And that’s when we initially thought, you know, there could be an opportunity here to bring this to us consumers initially thinking maybe this would just be a niche product. We know Indian community likes it. But then very quickly realized that, you know, it’s a product that everyone really, really likes. I mean, these roots passionfruit and manga are just really, really delicious. And the delicious in their natural state. But it’s so hard to get a delicious mango or just delicious passionfruit in the US fresh. So we bring that same flavor to our, our customers.

Kara Goldin 6:47
That’s awesome. So you get out of business school, did you actually start it in business school? I mean, were you guys writing the business plan or there was

Mike Weber 6:55
no business plan?

Kara Goldin 6:57
Like, let’s just wing it, let’s get it compact, and just go for it.

Mike Weber 7:02
So initially, we really did not think that this would be the idea that will take us to the Promised Land. Or it was always in between our first and second year was March. So we had the summer vacation and coming up and we said, look, we need to do something here. Let’s just get this, this ice cream idea started. At least we’ll learn something over the summer. So we actually sold our first at the time of the half pint of ice cream on May 21. May 26, I got married. And then that first summer of 2019. We were just saying Where did this product work? So we sold up and down the streets. In Philadelphia, we sold to convenience stores we sold to like Taco restaurants, we sold to the university we sold to grocery stores, just testing where you know, where can we get traction with a product. And by the end of that summer, we found the grocery channel, and particularly the natural grocery channel is really where we had the best traction. And that’s where we started to double down on in, in late 2019. And then a 2020 is where we kind of had a first big break, getting into whole foods through their local program just in 12 stores around Philadelphia.

Kara Goldin 8:19
That’s wild. And what was the hardest thing that you didn’t anticipate sort of getting in? I mean, you know, I It’s interesting as you’re sharing that story, and having come from working for a large ice cream company, I always think about my dad when I was launching hint. And he had started a brand called Healthy Choice. And so I went to him and I said how do I get into Safeway, like you were unsafe way? I mean, how can and you know ConAgra owns healthy choice. So they had, they had it all worked out like he had to negotiate internally. And I’m sure the ice cream was the same same way for the space. But to actually go in and get a meeting with a buyer and talk to a buyer and also talk to a buyer about how you’re launching something that is really different. And they should make space for you. I mean, I can just only imagine. And maybe that’s slightly easier and Whole Foods. I think the competition in every category has gotten greater. But was it really surprising because you had never really done anything like this. So

Mike Weber 9:24
it’s very difficult and there were no overnight successes or overnight surprises that came out. It was really just grinding and TierPoint Whole Foods was one of the easier ones to get a foot in the door. So in 2020 we got a foot in the door Whole Foods with 12 doors and we also got to go puff instant delivery platform just by sending a cold email to the CEOs, which was amazing. But in 2020 We felt great that over the summer we had those 12 whole food stores were really doing well the business is growing. And then in September and for that year is when we say, Okay, we’re going to take the data and we’re going to pitch to grocery stores all over. And we pitch to grocery stores all over the East Coast. And unfortunately, we got meetings with everyone. And you know, we got rejected by everybody. Wow, literally get back to the diner, we’re saying to each other, you know, we’ve had so many meetings, we’re definitely you get one come through, we’re going to be in good shape. Nothing, nothing came through that year. So we said, look, how are we going to do this? How are we going to, we’re going to do this, this is a channel and we said, look, we really have to just work with what we had, which is we were in Whole Foods in that local program, which kind of gave us a license to hunt and expand and more stores. And unfortunately, we got approved at a mass market retailer called ShopRite. In the region, which has a bit over 300 stores. And that was the same thing where it was like a license to hot, we weren’t placed on the shelf, we didn’t have our space, but we were able to go to the stores and pitch to the managers. And that’s exactly what we did. So at that time we graduated, but Don was living in California, he flew to the East Coast. And he was just living out of his car for about two months, going to to different ShopRite stores and pitching just to get on the shelf. Sometimes, we’d there, there’s some lower, slower selling items. So we just buy them, we just buy everything out on the shelf. So we get our space, and we get the store to place an order. And I was really focused on the marketing, we had a really robust digital marketing strategy driving people into the store asking for and I want that one I haven’t I haven’t had one ominous, and that was in the Dominican Republic or on my vacation in Colombia. And we ended up doing very well in those stores, and then use that as a proof point in the region to then this just this past year, pitch to other grocery stores. And it was much easier than to say do stuff at shop, hey, you know, right across the street from your shop, right? Look how well we’re doing over there. Right? So then this year, we went from just about 450 stores to over the last two months 3000 stores. And I think it was really me a lot of learning. But definitely knowing our knowing what the customer wants, right, which for us is, is the grocery store, and they want to know it, can they make more money with your product and the next product they put there, we had to prove that to them. And definitely the type of ice cream that we’re making is much different than anything else in the ice cream category. So we had to make them believe that this is something that would actually work for them. I think we did a good job proving that last year. And lastly, I think, you know, we just had, I think at the beginning, you know, you gotta get out there as a founder, but you’re not going to have a hero. No one’s going to be your hero, you have to do it yourself. And early on. It’s not about a scalable solution for these things. It’s just about muscling muscling it out and just getting the job done.

Kara Goldin 12:59
Yeah, totally. Well, and I think it’s, it’s interesting, I was on the phone with an entrepreneur the other day and shared a little bit about how, you know, you can, you can definitely get into stores, right? And, and you can get your product. And if it tastes good, right? No matter. I mean, it’s not easy, but it’s possible, but the real key is staying in because they want to see that things are selling so your ability to actually grab data, everything that you’re talking about and sort of show people maybe even against all odds that things worked, like if you’ve got a flavor that they’ve never heard of, for example, and it’s killing it right on the shelf, like, that’s where they can, you know, start to paint their own picture of whether or not it would do well in in their store. But, you know, you’re still up against huge competition. You’re always fighting for space. And you know, frankly, Hant, almost 17 years later is still fighting for space. I mean, people are like, Yeah, you’re much bigger, are you you know, but it’s still it’s, it’s still a fight, and anything can happen along the way. I mean, as as you know, in the in the ice cream industry, I mean, somebody new comes up, it’s almost like a, you’re a competitive advantage, right? Or you’ve got a competitive advantage, but you actually have to prove yourself and and yeah, and I think that the closer you can stay to the consumer and really understand what’s going on versus actually outsourcing it. I think that it’s you’ve got a few years before you can really outsource it. That’s another thing that I share with entrepreneurs. Would you agree?

Mike Weber 14:37
Absolutely. I think the way that we’ve built for tears really outsource the things that are more on the commodity side where there’s not value being added. Right. warehousing, the actual manufacturing for us, right? But what’s critical for us is the sales and marketing and marketing it who is our customer all Why are they buying for Taro? And the interesting learning for us has been our customers are not just ice cream shopper who’s buying Ben and Jerry’s one day, you know they want that super chocolate comes from fudge. And the next day you buy for Taro. People who love for Taro. They love fruits. Right? So the challenge for us is actually getting customers getting consumers from that fruit section from the produce section and letting them know hey, for taro exists, right we know you enjoy buying mangoes, fresh mangoes. Well, you’ll also love buying for taro and thinking about how are we going to target those customers so they know about it has been critical for us.

Kara Goldin 15:42
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I don’t know, maybe you, you figured out your cost of your goods? And then you said, Okay, double it. And that will be, but you know, you’ve got to sell it into as you get bigger, you’re gonna have to sell it into a distributor. In many cases, you’re not just delivering directly. So you’ve got to be careful about that, because you don’t want to have some huge increase that on the shelf. And but how did you think about that? And I think that that’s where maybe going to business school, maybe having experience in a big company kind of helps you to sort of think about that stuff. But what advice would you give to entrepreneurs when they’re trying to look at pricing?

Mike Weber 20:44
So look, I think, whether it’s looking at pricing or for us was looking at where to actually sell, what we looked at was, where is the where’s the most volume moving in, grocery in, in ice cream. And I suppose initially, early on, we were looking at all different channels, initially, were to sell, we’re looking at restaurants, convenience, grocery, and we’re gonna look, most of it was moved to grocery. So okay, that’s the channel that we’re initially gonna focus on grocery. And I think it’s kind of similar with, with pricing, we look at what are the brands in the category that are really moving a lot of volume. And it was not the brands like Ben and Jerry’s and Haagen Dazs and Calvin look at their price point. And we look at what else is in there. We see there’s a lot of brands that are higher $6.07 dot pints, we know, a lot of those branches don’t grow a lot. They’re just priced that in the market, they’ll work in LA, they’re they’ll work in New York, right, but they don’t work in the rest of the rest of the country. And we really wanted to build a company and have products that anybody can buy, right? So when we thought about pricing, we said, look, we want to have a price. It’s a slight premium to Ben and Jerry’s, because certainly we were paying for it. You know, we worked directly with partners in Colombia, with those farmers and processors there to get the fresh fruit. So we’re really investing in it. But we want to get that product to a shelf that works for a regular American consumer, and we don’t want to price them out. So really, we just say wherever we are, we want to be a slight premium to to Ben and Jerry’s and hug enough. But of course, you do get the complications of when you go through a distributor, you’re really stuck with a lot of the pricing

Kara Goldin 22:28
there. Yeah, definitely. You talked about digital marketing. And I think I feel like digital marketing has, has grown has changed in many ways over the last two years, especially as people were trying to get access to different types of food and stores were closed. How did your world change during? You know, the last couple of years with COVID?

Mike Weber 22:51
Yeah, so we were a COVID. Baby, right? We were born in COVID. So a lot of those classical marketing techniques or strategies we couldn’t do, we couldn’t get into stores and do a lot of sampling. And for Frontier, we always say Tasting is believing when people try our, our ice cream, they read the pie, and our repeat purchase rate is very good. So we had to be a bit more creative. And what really worked for us was on the digital marketing side. We had that insight that our customers love groups. So that’s what we target. So on Facebook on Instagram, we target folks that have an interest in fruit at the same time it was so interesting during COVID was there’s this huge rise of E commerce or E grocery right with Instacart so we do on air is for a customer looking for pineapple or avocado or strawberry they’ll always see an ad for for Tara calm. And what was so interesting about it was those keywords breads were super cheap, right? Because avocado there’s one brand of avocado in the store. So it’s very no one no one wants that. Interesting. So we put a bid on that very quickly get right in front of in front of those, those consumers. And the other thing was an of using social media to build brand advocates. When people like just how can we make people promote that fanatic love for Taro. And when people try to tell particularly if they have some cultural connection to Fercho now they grew up in India, enjoying mangoes, with their families. They really want to talk about that that experience. So we engage our customers to get them to talk even more with their friends with their families about wow, I just found this mango and you know it tastes just like you know the mango that we had on our vacation. You have to try it and we get people all the time. You know I I tried the guanabana and then I picked up eight pints. I brought it to my office so everyone there could try it because I knew that people in my office, they’ve never tried guanabana. And I wanted to share it with them.

Kara Goldin 25:03
That’s awesome. So and obviously tough in the frozen space to do this, you know, I think there’s many people who wouldn’t do what you’ve done because of the frozen space. They’re like, Oh, my God, what a nightmare. Right? What would you say? Do you believe it’s gotten easier that that the process of actually doing Frozen is, you know, has gotten slightly easier? There’s people who will handle that from, you know, pick and pack and

Mike Weber 25:29
it’s, it’s kind of all I know, yeah, so far. But I think we’re very fortunate here in the US that there’s a very robust infrastructure for the frozen supply chain, right? When there’s frozen warehouses all over the country. And there’s, well, capacity, it’s a little tough, tougher these days on trucks. But really, to get, we want to send a truckload to California, we send a few emails, we have very, very good partners at for Taro. And really over the last year, a big priority for me has been getting those right partners in place. Right. So, you know, our partners, our farming partners down in Colombia, we really have developed a very strong relationship with them. Same thing are their warehousing partners and CO packers and our logistics partners. You know, they can they trust us. We trust them. And I think it’s really about building that strong relationship.

Kara Goldin 26:25
Yeah, definitely. I love that. That’s such a great way to think about it for sure. So and then, you know, obviously your direct to consumer business as your as you’ve grown that I mean, you’re you’re also building your own list. And do you feel like like, I don’t think direct to consumer is going away anytime soon. I think that people are looking for new flavors constantly. And I was looking on your site to do you feel like that’s, that’s a big push for your site is to kind of test flavors as well.

Mike Weber 26:59
So I, I C, D to C, as where we test innovation. It’s exact, it’s exactly that. From a business perspective, from a margin perspective. I’d rather do grocery business all day long. Yeah. Then then DTC, right. Especially when it was frozen. Most of Unfortunately, most of what the customer is paying for is FedEx, dry ice, and an insulated box. Yeah, right. The actually cost the goods are very, very limited there. So we see, using grocery at, that’s where we’re going to put the main products, right, the fast line products. And then for our, you know, super fans, we want to have new products available new fruits available from our website. So for example, we’re in watching Food Lion down in North Carolina, it’s 1100 stores. And we said not to put our guanabana there. But we get so many messages through our website through our social media people saying, I went to food line, and I was looking everywhere for the guanabana I can’t find it. But I think that’s a flavor. It probably wouldn’t work very well. Absolutely fine. But it’s so important for us to have it available to those customers for our website. And the other thing is, you know, as we’re growing our distribution, there’s a lot of areas in the country that can’t get for Tara now right on the east coast where everywhere, Stop and Shop shop, right Whole Foods, Acme Safeway food line, but they have folks over there. They try for tear and they say, you know, I have a cousin in Chicago that would love for Taro. But we don’t have any scores right now and in Chicago. So DTC is a great way for those customers to send for tariff to their loved ones. At the same time, I think we have really invested in our relationships with a lot of the instant delivery companies

Kara Goldin 28:48
I was on the go paths and some of the others.

Mike Weber 28:52
Exactly. Gopal has been amazing. So pretty much you get on the app, you can order for taro and literally 15 minutes, you can get fruitarian delivered to your door and my wife and I we just had a baby that weekend. While we were in the hospital. The nurses were just amazing. They’re so I was ordering from Terrell for everyone and thankfully down in in Florida. In South Florida, we have for Durango butser. Just click like and we get to deliver in 15 minutes. I think with ice cream. It’s it’s an impulse buy, right people want it now. So for the same price that you can get a pint of Pradera in the store. You can get delivered to your your home. Yeah, 15 minutes to go. But I can’t say enough about them. We just love that. And that relationship is super important for us.

Kara Goldin 29:41
That’s awesome. That’s yeah, those guys are great. I want to get him the CEO on on here because it’s I mean, it’s a phenomenal story. Absolutely. Very, very cool. So, Mike share a story about like a challenge or failure that you’ve had along the way and building this business as you and I were talking Thinking about I think that entrepreneurism has been over glamorized at times for people just getting in and, and we all know the stories of entrepreneurs in every industry are, you know, it can be challenging and, and frankly, lonely sometimes, too, as you’re going through these things that you might not tell your closest friends about, you know, here’s what happened at ShopRite. Right. And, you know, it’s just, it’s a weird story that people wouldn’t even believe half the time is, my husband and I have said over the last 17 years of building this business building hint, it’s, we would have probably made more money, just like running the video camera on some of you know, that we think back on and I mean, it’s just between co packers and and some of those meetings and meetings with grocery buyers, and, you know, things when we were on, you know, on top of everything, and then all of a sudden we weren’t I mean, it’s just it’s so so many stories. So share one that you have.

Mike Weber 31:05
Yes. And just on your point of the ups and downs, I ended alone. And I think what I’m so fortunate about is my partner have a dot? I, we definitely could not have, we could not do this without each other. Yeah, I think when you have two partners, right, you have two people, well, you’re gonna get the highs and lows right in the business. And it’s, I think it’s so important to have to build because look, there’s some times when I’ve been super down, especially early on, in the middle of nowhere, I’m super down, but you have your partner that, you know, brings that positivity to you. And then you’ll have times when it’s the reverse situation, especially early on, when we knew nothing about making ice cream, and it just looked so like it was such a long journey to when can we even get a product off the shelf. But in terms of the biggest the big failures we had, or big mistakes we had, it was really early on, it took us a while to figure out the right product, place price and promotion, right just the four P’s of marketing. And the biggest mistake we made was actually taking taking too long to apply some of the things that we are seeing and make changes for very specifically, when we launched for Taro. We saw that our path to building a brand would be through food service. We had this idea early on that we be the burritos of ice cream. We saw that here at every Mexican restaurant you have heard those we thought Fonterra would be that dessert of choice there. So initially, we came out with this half pint of ice cream, eight ounce cup of ice cream, and we sold on our bicycles all over Philadelphia. We also sold them to at the same time do that into grocery stores. And we started realizing in that first summer summer that restaurants were not where we’re going to build the business, it was going to be in grocery. And early on, we started getting feedback that the half pint that’s smaller size is not going to work in grocery. But at that time, we had $5,000 worth of packaging. And we said How the heck are we going to change now we have $5,000 invested in this packaging, we can’t just throw it out. So we double down, we continue growing with this with this half pint, then we had an issue with our CO Packer where we pretty much got kicked out we had to make a big change. And we had another opportunity we had to change that configuration of of the packaging. And we said we could go to a point now or we could just stick with the ATF. And they’re going to take you over and so many stores already. It was maybe only 40 stores. And we said let’s just it’s just too late, we have to just stick with stick with the half pint. Well, actually that half pint really became it really became an issue and the margins on that were were not good. And we also had a lot of operational issues. So that smaller container just got lost on the show. The buyers were ordering, not enough. So we sell up a lot. And ultimately be just clear, we have to make the change now and you have to just rip off that band aid and switch the pack size. And it was not an easy thing to do. But now looking back, I mean, thank God that we made that change. And so I think just the learning, if I were to do this again for for other folks, you know, when you start seeing those issues early on in the business, number one, they’re only going to get bigger. So learn very quickly and make that change very quickly. And after those things that you see is impossible to do, oh, it’s impossible to make this change. early on. Once you grow, it only becomes harder to make that change. We had a similar issue. We bought barcodes just off the internet early on. And we realized, oh, you can’t just do that. Yeah, we had to make that. We had to make that change. And that was tough. But you know, especially in the early days, just make the corrections as fast as fast as you possibly can. And also make sure you’re getting cussed more feedback as much as you can.

Kara Goldin 35:02
Yeah, definitely. No, those are great, great insights. So I think for everybody, we all have those moments when we’re like, Oh, why did we do that? That was so stupid. But I think the key is is to learn from them auto craft as fast as possible and go out and try some other things. So that is, is great stuff and for Tarot is terrific. So Mike mentioned many of the stores that it’s available, but it’s also available online. What’s the best place for people to reach out? Can you share your website?

Mike Weber 35:36
Oh, yeah, so our website is for taro ice. cream.com F ru, Te Aro ice cream.com People could also just email me, I might get for taro ice. cream.com

Kara Goldin 35:47
Perfect. And on social platforms. You guys are all set up there as well.

Mike Weber 35:52
Yes, just at through taro ice cream F ru Te Aro.

Kara Goldin 35:56
That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on. And thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode, please subscribe to the Kara Goldin show and your great stories like Mike’s and for Taros. And we would really appreciate it if you would give this five stars because the algorithm really is pushed by getting great ratings. And this was an awesome episode with lots of little gems in there. So appreciate that and find me on all social platforms at Kara Goldin. And be sure to pick up a copy of my book undaunted, that shares our journey of building hint. And we are here every Monday, Wednesday, and I believe we’re adding another day as well. So really, really terrific that you all are staying with us and listening and thanks, everyone have a great week. Before we sign off, I want to talk to you about fear. People like to talk about fearless leaders. But achieving big goals isn’t about fearlessness. Successful leaders recognize their fears and decide to deal with them head on in order to move forward. This is where my new book undaunted comes in. This book is designed for anyone who wants to succeed in the face of fear, overcome doubts and live a little undaunted. Order your copy today at undaunted, the book.com and learn how to look your doubts and doubters in the eye and achieve your dreams. For a limited time. You’ll also receive a free case of Pentwater Do you have a question for me or want to nominate an innovator to spotlight send me a tweet at Kara Goldin and let me know. And if you liked what you heard, please leave me a review on Apple podcasts. You can also follow along with me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at Kara Goldin. Thanks for listening