Carol Han Pyle: Founder & CEO of Nette

Episode 489

In this episode, Carol Han Pyle, Founder and CEO of the exquisite candle and fragrance brand Nette, shares her journey and insights into building a successful brand in the luxury candle and fragrance industry. We learn how Nette is setting a new industry standard for clean, sustainable, chic candles and fragrances that help you take good care of yourself and the world around you and why the brand is quickly gaining a cult following with consumers. Listen now on this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow.

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Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be I want to be you just want to make sure you will get knocked down but just make sure you don’t get knocked down knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control control control. Hi everyone and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go Let’s go. Hi, everyone. Its Kara Goldin from the Kara Goldin show. I’m so excited to have my next guest. Here we have Carol Han Pyle, who is the founder and CEO ofNette and if you have not heard ofNette, you are going to be so excited to hear her backstory, and all about the brand I should say too. So Carol is a former beauty and fashion editor. But she is made her way into entrepreneurship as the founder and CEO of this exquisite candle and fragrance brand calledNette. And it’s about luxury candles and fine fragrances today, but who knows in the future, where she will be headed. So beautiful, beautiful candles, and fragrances and the scents are wonderful, the packaging is amazing as well. And you must must try and we’ll have all the info in the show notes too. SoNette is setting a new industry standard for clean, sustainable chic candles and fragrances that help you take good care of yourself and the world around you. I can’t wait for Carol to tell us a little bit more about how she became a cult brand in the candle and fragrance industry and very, very excited. So let’s get started. Welcome, Carol,

Carol Han Pyle 2:04
thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

Kara Goldin 2:07
Super excited. So tell us why you decided to startNette. I mean, you had a career a little different direction, what was the itch inside of you that said I need to go and start this. Well, I

Carol Han Pyle 2:22
spent so my so many years covering fashion and beauty specifically, many of those years being at L and l.com. And then I started a social media agency that was really focused on building brands in many different industries, but notably in luxury, hospitality and beauty and lifestyle. And so through those two experiences, I really fell in love with this idea of brand as a means to foster community and to really create something that is both beautiful, and also makes a big difference in in its community. And going further back. My mom was actually a candle Baker, she owned a candle store in Sausalito when I was starting from when I was you know before I was born, and all the way through until we moved away from San Francisco when I was nine years old. So quite literally, my very first childhood memories are really in that store. When I was a kid, I didn’t have a nanny there, you know, that wasn’t really a thing. So I really went to work with her before I started school. So I spent so much of my time in that environment surrounded by these beautiful smells and these beautiful candles that my mom would hand up and hand carve. And I really fell in love with candles and scents. And it gave me so much emotional comfort to be in that environment with her. And then, you know, when I was nine, my parents got divorced. My mom and I moved to Hawaii, the business was sold. And everything got a little bit more complicated, I would say. So I’ve always held on to that memory of those early days in that store as this idea of you know, that was when things were really simple and really joyful, and I have so many amazing childhood memories there. And that power of scent to bring me that back to that place has always been really important to me. So I always knew that I wanted to do something in fragrance. I have always loved candles. And when the pandemic hits in early 2020 I finally had the space and time you know all of my clients at the agency had put their services on pause. Nobody knew what was going on. I wasn’t going to my Tracy Anderson workout classes anymore. I wasn’t going out to dinner with friends. I finally had this like incredible headspace to really think about what I wanted this brand to be how I wanted to put it out into the world and make a game plan for it. So I had been working on it prior to the pandemic but the pandemic really put the pedal to the metal so to speak in terms of accelerating the actual launch of of the brand. I love

Kara Goldin 5:07
how the story went full circle back to your mom. Right. And that’s a it’s such a beautiful, beautiful way to describe it for sure. So so the her business was sold. I’m so curious because I live in Marin County, was it actually sold? Yeah, yeah,

Carol Han Pyle 5:26
it was sold, sold. And you know, now it’s long gone. I went back to visit a few years ago. And that whole area that her store was in has obviously, it this was so many years, decades ago, it has gone through such a massive transformation. You know, from what I can remember, when her candle store was there, it was really like a lot of mom and pop stores in that area. And I remember like, you know, running to the toy store, which was, you know, shockingly still there. When I went to visits and it was just such an amazing place to spend my childhood. And I remember, you know, being in the water, there was like a little park outside where you know, the you know, the it was right on the water and it was just a great a great space.

Kara Goldin 6:11
I love it. I think I know kind of where you’re you’re talking about the general area there, as you say the the work so. So how would you describeNette? For those who maybe aren’t familiar with it? There’s obviously a ton of candle companies out there, you’re also doing luxury fragrances to but what did you see in the industry that you didn’t feel was really being captured?

Carol Han Pyle 6:38
Yeah, so you know the nameNette. First of all, it’s a French word. That is That means loosely impeccable, elegant and clean, which are all attributes that are super important to me. And were super important to me in building this brand. My goal from the beginning was to create a fragrance brand that was clean, luxurious, elegant, and that and that did things impeccably. So you know every detail from the handmade ceramic and glass candle vessels. They’re all food safe, dishwasher safe, and microwave safe and custom could be custom designed to be used as cups after the candle is done. So you know, one example is that one thing that bothered me about when I was doing a market research about several other candle brands that I had experimented with was that I found that a lot of brands were saying the vessel is we’re sustainable, because our vessel is reusable. But nine times out of 10, the vessel was made by a mass manufacturing company, everyone uses the same one. It’s called Libby, they cost like 15 cents to make. There’s nothing really special about them. They’re very stock, and then they get spray painted with, you know, whatever colors the brands want. So they’re not food safe. And then it’s just like how reusable is it really? How many scrunchie holders do you really need, you can’t really put your toothbrush and I because that goes in your mouth. And I thought how can I make a candle vessel that is actually reusable, something so beautiful that people do not want to throw it out? wouldn’t dream of it at the end of the candles life. So I thought that the only way to do that was to really work with a ceramicist and engineer, a vessel that was really like cup slash mug first, and candle. Second, because it’s going to live a much longer life as your favorite coffee mug than it is your candle. So we did that we custom designed it. We did custom molds, and they’re all to this day hand blown hand thrown, and very, very expensive. But you know, I think that that element of having it in your life for so long is is really important and something that you know, we really wanted to, to focus in on. Well, so going back to the Go ahead,

Kara Goldin 8:59
no, no, go ahead. There was a little bit of a delay there. So, but they’re beautiful. So absolutely gorgeous. So I love that aspect of it as well. Thank

Carol Han Pyle 9:09
you. So you know, really just paying attention to the details like that. And then also going back to, you know, the very, very, very beginning origins of the brand like you know, 40 years ago when I was in my mom’s candle shop, I really wanted to create fragrances that could have a proven market effect on people’s emotions and make them feel good in a way that was scientifically proven. So that is something that we focus really, really hard on in terms of our development of our perfumes. Every single one of our perfumes is scientifically proven to have mood boosting benefits. So for example, our five perfumes that we launched with are all scientifically proven to boost feelings of confidence and mindfulness. And that’s, you know, that’s just another thing that I wanted to bring in, bring in that I was not seeing too much. I’m done in a very elegant, elevated way. And in this space. I

Kara Goldin 10:06
love it. So you launch with you launched with five skews you just mentioned, how did you decide what to launch with?

Carol Han Pyle 10:15
Yeah, so Well, you know, when we first started the brand we launched with candles only and we launched with four candles. And it we were just starting out. So I really wanted to create for perfect candles that encompassed all of the subcategories that I really love. So we did a tomato candle that was like really fresh and green and kind of crunchy tomato scent. And then we did this beautiful white floral, and then we did another life which is like this intoxicating vanilla. And then we did super natural, which is a very woodsy, smoky, you know, gorgeous forest decent. And, you know, I thought that those four categories were ones that I that I personally was always looking for. I wanted a candle that was clean that I felt safe to burn, I was going through an IVF process at that point, every single one of my practitioners was telling me to watch out for what I was using in terms of my beauty products and in terms of you know, especially the candle those burning because I was such a candle freak. I had candles all over my house. So I really wanted something that was going to be beautiful and clean and safe to burn.

Kara Goldin 11:25
While they’re absolutely gorgeous. So you started with four and then you went to five use Saturd did I miss your that well, before

Carol Han Pyle 11:34
and then we and then we kept on bringing in more and more and more candle scents until we had a fairly well rounded candle collection. There throughout this entire time. We were speaking to Sephora, so Sephora reached out. in month two or three of our brands launch which you know, we were absolutely not ready for. We thought on the phone with Sephora. I was like googling while I was on zoom at them what a purchase order was I was really just like such a beginner when it came to running a fragrance brand it was you know, I was three months into it. And, you know, fortunately they really they really understood that they really love the brand. And I proceeded then to work with that merchant team over the course of the next two years to develop alongside them our fine fragrance collection. So we then launched our five perfumes with Sephora two years later in March of last year. That’s

Kara Goldin 12:36
terrific. So you were getting press even before you went in and you were selling just on your own website. Initially.

Carol Han Pyle 12:44
Yes, exactly. So we really launched DTC only. We didn’t know what was going to happen what to expect, but fortunately our launch was very buzzy and it got a lot of press attention a lot of organic influencer attention so we got a lot of retailer reach outs right from the get go Sephora Nordstrom Harrods Selfridges you know blue Mercury came knocking it was a lot of it was a lot of us reacting to the reach out that we were getting and and kind of choosing you know who to work with from there.

Kara Goldin 13:19
So you started in candles and then you moved into fragrances and can you talk a little bit about that?

Carol Han Pyle 13:27
Yeah, the fragrance world I think is so different from from candles, I think the way that we approach creating something that’s going to make people feel really good in their homes and make a home feel like or an office feel like a really welcoming, gorgeous environment in terms of the smell that’s filling a room is so different from formulating something that people are going to want to wear on their bodies. You know we think about it in in a very different way. And I think that when I started formulating for fine fragrance as opposed to candles it had to be like a total sort of like mind shift you know I for example I really love our another life candle I think it is so cozy and it’s filled with this like really strong vanilla and Coco shell and I think it’s like the most comforting scent for for home. But the thought of wearing it on my body. I’m like, Oh, that would just be like too much vanilla. It’s like a little bit too. You know, like I want it I want what I wear to be a little bit more sophisticated and complex. I want that addiction of like, constantly smelling my wrist because I’m smelling like something new and subtle every single time and just trying to like pick out those notes.

Kara Goldin 14:48
And were you well I actually string some research on on the fragrance partnership that you have. So with IFF specific Boy in their science of wellness program, and you touched on this a little bit before, but can you talk a little bit about the science behind the technology of the fragrance and sort of how that all works?

Carol Han Pyle 15:14
Yeah, of course. So I have baths, the science of wellness program is so incredible. They, you know, they employ over 60 people in house specifically to work in this program. And this is a mixture of neuroscientists, data scientists, perfumers, like the smartest people get into a room and are 100% focused on how to make sure that the fragrances that choose to use this program are getting all of the scientific data, that it’s all 100% accurate, that we have the you know, the backing to confidently go out to our consumer and say, where this fragrance, it’s going to increase your levels of joy and positivity and confidence or relaxation, or, you know, whatever your goal is. And they do this using a combination of AI and neuroscience technology. So there are two different methods of testing fragrances effects on human emotion. First, it’s a declarative method of testing, where they ask people to smell the ingredients, and tell us how they feel. And then we layer in neuroscience with a process where we ask people to smell ingredients. And then we actually look at brain activity. All of that data is then collected and built into databases that are fragrance houses incredible like world famous. perfumers can have access to when they’re when they’re developing their their juices. So

Kara Goldin 16:44
what were some of the biggest obstacles you faced when launching, either launching or really growing?Nette? I talk to entrepreneurs in every industry all the time. And it’s, you know, it’s definitely something that, that people gather stories around things happen that, that, you know, they didn’t expect it to happen at all. I have a story and growing hint, where we were in Starbucks and everything was going great. And then Starbucks decided that they wanted to have more of their products in the cold case, versus actual other brands. And so it was great for them. It was terrible for me, and over 600 stores went away overnight, literally. Yeah, and I mean, that on the bright side of the whole thing, we were exposed to many people throughout, throughout, you know, the country that actually had never tried him and probably wouldn’t have tried hints and places like Chicago, and we were very coastal. So, you know, right. When that happened, we more than anything needed to be able to communicate with consumers that we were, we were available on our website, I think today 2012 more consumers, if they really want your product, they’ll go to your website, but 2012 still was not, you know, where people were looking necessarily for beverage companies having maybe beauty maybe, but not beverage companies. So it was it was really challenging. And we ended up going into Amazon and and we were one of the first grocery items to be an Amazon and it really took off. So it all ended up fine. But it was definitely an obstacle that we didn’t know how it was going to turn out. The company almost shut down. I mean, it was just it was a mess. And so if there’s any stories were that you have where things were, maybe they made the candles wrong, a different scent went in, I don’t know something, something crazy that happens along the way.

Carol Han Pyle 19:05
Well, I can tell you one thing that all of the vendors that have all of the vendors that we launched the brand with whether that was our warehouse, the manufacturer that actually pours the candles, the vessels, even the fragrance house, not a single one of those vendors is the same as what we’re working with now. Yeah. So you know, I think that when we were launching the business we as any entrepreneur does, we made the best decisions based on the information that was available to us having never really run a fragrance brand before. So even with all of the hours and hours and days and months of research across all of these vendors, we still picked wrong I mean, you know, I’m not gonna say wrong because it is what it is. And you know, the journey is what the journey is and you know, you have to go it’s not a linear line you have to kind of take like little detours to get to where you need to be. But some of those transitions, let me just tell you were so painful, especially when it came to the company that was pouring our candles, you know, we picked a manufacturer out in LA, they seemed amazing, we got along with the owner really, really well. And then at the end of the day, it was, you know, our, our main customer representative, there was, for some reason, based in Italy, so the time difference was really difficult. The candles that they were pouring, were not burning correctly, all of them were tunneling. And, you know, we, we did the testing, and we had to discard a lot of those candles, and you know, just kind of take that loss to kind of, you know, make sure that we didn’t go to market with candles that tunneled. It was, and then, you know, I got a call, maybe two weeks before we were supposed to launch the brand. And we had an exclusive coming out, you know, in one of the press outlets, and there was a whole pre launch strategy that we were doing on social media that already had 1000s of followers where we had communicated the launch date, no joke, probably, like 50 times. And, and it was like, that’s the launch date, we have this like a million times to all, like this entire audience that we’ve built over the past few months. And I got a call from Italy. So you know, it happened. It happened that I got this call from Italy. And she was like, You know what, we can’t, we can’t make your launch date anymore. And it’s going to be delayed two months. And you know, it was just I remember just crying in my kitchen. And just feeling so hopeless. And you know, I think that when you’re trying to actually make a product, there are so many things that can go wrong along the way, which I’m sure you know. So anyway, now we’re in a much better place. But it took a long time to get there. It took about a year. And I think that I honestly probably wasn’t happy with our candles, for example, until two years into the business. It wasn’t until the end of 2022 that I finally sat back and I was like, I think our candles are perfect. But it took two years. It took like, you know, however much time pre launch. And then it took two years of actually running the business, and iterating and iterating and iterating until I was like, huh, I can rest on the candles that

Kara Goldin 22:29
well. And I love I love that you mentioned that because I think that one thing that new entrepreneurs always grapple with this, should I launch something that isn’t perfect. Right. And I think that, you know, I would say that launch it obviously in the case of a beverage company, you want to make sure that it’s safe and oh, and all those things, but you’re always going to be iterating. You know, it’s it’s constant. I interviewed somebody yesterday, that’s a 30 year old brands that still around beauty brand. And they still around and still thriving. And that was the one thing that the founder said was that, you know, we still have skews from when we started but it we’ve iterated right, and you have to do that. And I think most entrepreneurs would also say that it’s never going to be perfect, right? Like you’re always going to keep going and and making tweaks on things along the way. So you’re a terrific example of that, too. So what strategies have you deployed to build like a loyal community? You talked about community a bit you obviously had been involved in building helping build other people’s brands and social but how do you think aboutNette and and community building and and what you see, especially on social?

Carol Han Pyle 23:59
Yeah, I think that fragrance is such a special category when it comes to community building, because people are really passionate about it. And it is so personal and emotional to them. So we can a lot of communication just at we have an email address [email protected]. And it serves as a customer service hub, where people can, you know, obviously, email us about the mundane things like returns, but obviously, but also email us about feedback thoughts. I mean, it we get it all, and I still read that inbox every single day. So just to kind of pick out Yeah, I think it’s so important because I want to know what people are thinking and I want to hear their fragrance stories and I want to hear what they’re craving. One of the things that we get requested the most is we have this one candle named called Sweet fringe and we got a request to make that into some sort of perfume iteration at some point and, you know, I would never have considered that unless you know until I got the request Number 10. And I was like, maybe there’s, you know, there there. So I think it’s really important to kind of cultivate that community. And for me really to have, like, you know, a open line of communication with our community, I will send emails from my personal email address to our whole email database, at least like once a month, I would say, and I always sign off, please just reply to this email, you know, with any responses and any thoughts, I’d love to hear from you. And I really do get emails back and I respond to every single one of them. So I think, you know, I know that it will be difficult to, you know, keep on as you grow, it gets more difficult to do that. But I heard this saying very recently at a conference, and I can’t remember what the company was, but it was something about, keep the fire warm, keep the campfire warm. And like, you have to kind of, you know, make sure that your community and your consumers can still feel the warmth of the fire, even if you grow into this humongous brand. Because as soon as they stop feeling the warmth that that fire, then I think it gets loses some of that magic. So I think, yeah, I think that’s so true. Yeah, so I think as a founder led brand, making sure that I really stay close to the community is really important to me. And just one of the things that I focus on. Yeah, I always said

Kara Goldin 26:29
when you know, when things get down, right, when you have those hard days going back to those consumer comments, or even going back into customer service, and and listening to what’s happening, because I think that that’s where I’ve really found not only energy, but also where I could actually piece things together. So so many stories, where, you know, I actually just rolled up my sleeves and started to really figure things out. I had somebody who’s on the board of Patagonia, who talked about Yvonne and how Yvonne very much leads Patagonia with you know, he has a workshop and he goes and sews and develops like fabrics that like I mean, he’s very still to this day, very, very hands on and trying to tinker and create. And I think like, that is really the story of founder led brands. Right? And, you know, whether you love Patagonia or not, I think it’s such a great example. And I think any founder would really understand that, as well. So, yeah, very much. So yeah.

Carol Han Pyle 27:45
What a hero. He is, I he’s one of my favorite favorite founders, as I’m sure he is for so many people. So

Kara Goldin 27:51
yes, so many people. So probably, you talked about the challenging aspects of of building a brand, building a company overall, obviously, trying to scale that company, you’ve got hit with things like a pandemic, you’re trying to figure out, how do you continue to compete? But what would you warn people about like, just in starting a company like that, it’s difficult to hire people, and you’ll change suppliers, you talked about that, maybe capital, things like that, that I think are, you know, really key, I think one of the things that I’ve seen, too, I, you and I were talking before we started recording, but in Sephora, you have beautiful packaging, as well, which, you know, it’s not really part of the product that people are buying, but it makes a difference, right. And there’s a feeling that goes on that I think is very, very important for you to kind of get the consumer to actually pick it up and remember it so but things like that, that you obviously learned on the job, as you’re, you know, maybe even learned as a consumer to some extent before starting but I’d love to hear your response.

Carol Han Pyle 29:17
Yeah, so I think that what you just touched upon with the packaging is an element that is so integral to the experience. And I think that founders deservedly so tend to get so focused on the product itself, the, you know, the foundation or the lipstick or the the formulas, they get very focused on the formulas and I think that that, of course is the most important thing, but I think that on some level, the way that it’s presented that beautiful experience of like opening a package and having it unfold a certain way of receiving like a you know, gorgeous piece of you know, like an out with a package that explains what makes the product special. All of those little touches how the tissue paper is folded the sticker that’s there, all of those tiny touches really add up into the entire experience. And the experience is also something that matters deeply to people. And it is an emotional experience. And that is a huge part of why people will continue to feel that your product is special and will continue to come back. So I think that that’s really, that’s, you know, that’s something to almost equally focused on is delivering an experience that is beautiful and rewarding. So

Kara Goldin 30:41
best advice for founders, for somebody who wants to eventually start a company, when just maybe they’re having a hard time getting out of getting started? Maybe they’re dealing with some of those issues, like changing suppliers, as you mentioned, if somebody were to call you on the phone today and say, you know, what would you say, knowing what you’ve been through?

Carol Han Pyle 31:13
Yeah, I would, I mean, honestly, I would say, keep going. I think that there is this really great quote, again, that I always think about, it’s like, the day that you plant, the seed isn’t the same day that you eat the fruit, I’m sure you’ve heard that. But I think it’s worthy of remembering and, you know, when things are really, really hard, just, you know, it’s, it’s so, so much of the game is about longevity, like, who can stay in the game who can withstand the challenges for the longest brand awareness. And everything that flows as a result of brand awareness, you know, community of followers, you know, sales happens over time, you know, it takes time to build. So I think that the people that can have that sense of resiliency and overcoming the challenges and just putting one foot in front of the other every single day, and you know, taking action every single day to build to grow, to walk towards where you want to be. And for people who can do that over a long, hard, oftentimes hard amount of time, you know, those are the people that that will that will win. So I think that you know, having resilience, being in it for the long haul, and then therefore really loving and being and having a lot of conviction around what it is you’re trying to build. Because it’s going to be so hard to stay in that game if you don’t have the conviction yourself and like true belief in your product and the brand.

Kara Goldin 32:53
So Carol Han Pyle, founder and CEO ofNette, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom and all your lessons and your overall story. Everybody needs to definitely understand and whereNette can be purchased. We’ll have all that info in the in the show notes. Also available, as you mentioned, some of the stores Sephora, for sure, and many, many other fine stores. You will absolutely love them. And I love that you’ve shared the story with us for your beautiful products and companies. So thank you again, Carol. Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would, please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit and of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. I would love to hear from you too, so feel free to DM me. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal, best selling book undaunted where I share more about my journey including founding and building hint. We are here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Thanks for listening and good bye for now.

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