Erica Small: Co-Founder of Yes Way Rosé

Episode 862

On today’s episode, we welcome Erica Small, Co-Founder of Yes Way Rosé — a brand that proves some of the best consumer companies don’t start with a product. They start with a point of view.
What began as a social media movement between two lifelong friends became one of the leading rosé brands in the U.S., with more than 13 million bottles sold and nationwide distribution. Not bad for two founders who didn’t come from the wine industry and decided to challenge a category that often takes itself far too seriously.
In this episode, Erica shares how she and her co-founder built a community before they ever sold a bottle of wine, why being outsiders became their biggest advantage, and what it took to break through in a crowded category filled with legacy brands and celebrity labels. We also discuss the evolution of Yes Way Rosé from their “party era” to their “mom era,” the launch of their new non-alcoholic rosé, and why consumer behavior around drinking is changing faster than many people realize. This is a conversation about brand-building, storytelling, community, and knowing when to evolve without losing what made people fall in love with your brand in the first place.
This is a must listen. You can find the interview here or anywhere you listen to podcasts 🎧.

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Transcript

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. I want to be. You just want to make sure you will get knocked down, but just make sure you don’t get knocked out, knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control, control, control. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Kara Goldin show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go, let’s go. Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Kara Goldin show. Have you ever noticed that some of the strongest brands don’t start with a product, they start with a point of view, a feeling, a community, an idea people want to be a part of before there’s anything to buy. That’s exactly what happened with my next guest and the next brand? Yes, way rose a so incredible. So that’s exactly what happened with Yes Way Rosé. What began as a social media idea between two lifelong friends became one of the leading rose brands in the US with more than 13 million bottles sold, and a clear modern voice in a category that has traditionally taken itself quite seriously. So I’m looking forward to hearing more about building community before product breaking into wine as outsiders scaling into major retail, and I’m excited to be joined by Erica Small, the co-founder of Yes Way Rosa, to talk all about how Yes Way Rosa is leading and is unique and different, and very, very excited. So, Erica, welcome to The Kara Goldin Show.

Erica Small 1:59
Thank you so much for having me.

Kara Goldin 2:01
Very excited. So, let’s start with the obvious question, what is Yes Way Rosa?

Erica Small 2:08
Yes, Way Rosé is a modern rose brand rooted in friendship, community, and culture. We make great tasting rose from the south of France, with a focus on balance and freshness, and reflect how people drink today. Our leading SKU is our still 750 milliliter bottle of French froze. It’s from the IDP Mediterranean Appalachian, and then we also have cans, we have sparkling, and then we have our new non-alcoholic French rose.

Kara Goldin 2:46
I love it. Well, and that’s very unique for doing a non-alcoholic wine. I know out there we’ve seen a huge explosion in beers, but that is not an easy thing I understand to actually accomplish,

Erica Small 3:02
yeah, it’s actually something we had been, Nick and I had been talking about for a couple of years, about how we could enter the non-alcoholic space. Did it make sense for us? What already existed in the market, what didn’t? And it was an ongoing conversation. And then last year it happened that we were both pregnant at the same time, and we realized what was missing was that crisp glass of French rose a just sans the alcohol, and so it was a good time for us to really dive into that, you know, exploration of what a great tasting rose could be that delivered that experience, and we’re really happy with what we came up with,

Kara Goldin 3:42
so you started in 2013 Yes, you didn’t start with vineyards or a winery, you don’t live in the wine country up kind of in the area, sort of where I am, or with wine industry background, but you started with this point of view and idea, and what did you think was just missing in the industry? Obviously, there’s been rose a out there for a while, but yours is obviously so unique, and and why do you think it took off the way it did?

Erica Small 4:15
Well, in 2013 is when Nikki, my best friend and co-founder, started. We had never had been living in New York, working in media and fashion. My background was as a writer and editor, and Nikki, a graphic designer and art director. We grew up together. We were living in New York, going out all the time, never had a go-to drink, like I would order the house red, she would order the house white. We didn’t want to be around a wine list, and then when we discovered French rose, it changed everything for us, and it was the taste, but it was also, we thought the color was so beautiful, we thought it was so fun, and we loved that we could, you know, drink this French wine, and it felt chic, and everything. But we didn’t really connect to any of the brands that existed. It was a little more old school feeling. It didn’t reflect our style or how we felt about Rose A, which was really social and fun. And we started the Instagram account at Yes Rosa in 2013 just to sort of do something with all this, all this fun and humor between us, and then Nikki designed our first product, which was a tote bag, which we called a tote, and it featured our logo, the logo that’s now on the wine bottle, and that’s how we started the brand by selling, growing the lifestyle business, and building the community, we each started putting $100 in, and that was our capital to start, and grew from there. So it was very organic roots that started with just me and my bestie and our shared passion for Rose, and that we knew that there would be other people who felt about the wine that we, the way that we did, and that really helped us build a community.

Kara Goldin 6:07
So you spent years identifying trends and emerging brands as an editor, so you know you definitely had experience building communities and content. What was the point when you got to, okay, we’re going to launch this product.

Erica Small 6:26
We had grown the brand, the lifestyle brand, for a while, and we, this was in around a few years after we had grown this brand, and we decided to really look inward and say, you know, where are we taking this? How do we want to grow? We had, we didn’t come from wine backgrounds, so once we started the brand, we became experts. We became friends with sommeliers, and meeting everyone we could in the industry, you know, traveling to different vineyards and places to learn everything we could, and so around 2016 we decided we wanted to go all in and make rose that we were ready to put this product in the market, and we had felt confident in what we wanted the product to be, and we want it to be from the South of France. We want it to be very classic and refreshing. We want it to be approachable in price and availability. And then, how you know, we started meeting with everyone that we could, and it just so happened that we were also had sent a lifestyle collaboration deck to target for like a design partnership, and it got in the hands of their adult beverage buyer, who said if he had this wine, he would sell it, and so that really kicked things into high gear for us, and we had, because there had been built-in demand from our community, which had grown to a great size, and the brand, which was recognizable, even though it didn’t yet exist as a wine,

Kara Goldin 8:06
so, so interesting. So you just launched with one skew, then

Erica Small 8:12
we just launched with the Still Rose, a and then later that first year we introduced the sparkling, and then the following year the cans, so it was, you know, yeah, one core skew to start, and then we focus on other products, other French rose products that we’ve introduced, the most recent being the non-alcoholic,

Kara Goldin 8:37
so building an audience, a company of any sort is challenging, but getting into physical goods is super challenging, and then getting into the alcohol industry is even more challenging, and then direct to consumer obviously came later, but you’re dealing with distributors, and I like so much here that you guys have accomplished, and even though it may seem like a long time, in a relatively short amount of time, you’re today selling more than 13 million bottles. What was the moment when you realized, wow, I mean, this is bigger than either of us expected,

Erica Small 9:28
and I think that we’ve had some pretty incredible moments, and it’s been amazing that I do this with my best friend, and we get to, you know, have these experiences together. We had gone to France to make the rose a that was going to be sold first in Target, and then it went on to other stores shortly after, and we were at the winery tasting different blends, and there was already calls for more demand for wine as we were there. Are tasting it, and you know, this is like a life highlight moment to be there with my best friend, tasting the wine for this thing that we had started, and now was our lives and our business. So that was, you know, a moment when we thought that it all really clicked, and then, of course, when we saw it hit stores and end caps and everything, but it was almost like we had built it so much that when it was finally the wine was finally in stores, it was like years of preparation, and that it was more like relief, you know, like this is what it always needed to be, and we are happy that we took the time in order to get the product right, because it did. You know, it wasn’t like we just started with a wine. It was, it took a big, it took a long time for us to get there, and we wanted to make sure we really did it right and had the right partners and everything

Kara Goldin 10:54
to do it. So, you often hear that consumers are buying products, but for taste, which I think you know is, is so key, but I think there is still a lot about the identity and and the content and the things that you’ve done to really build out the community that you have. What lessons have you learned along the way that maybe you would share with other founders or potential entrepreneurs to be, we have a lot of college students and business school students who listen to this podcast, just not necessarily in the wine industry, but in any industry. Like, what is it that kind of made it grow the way that it did?

Erica Small 11:39
I think that we always approached it that how we wanted the voice to be and how we wanted it to the visual identity, which Nikki came up with, is very distinct and unique, and it was very different from what existed at the time that it, that we introduce the brand and the branding, and then the voice has always been, you know, how we would talk to another one of our friends, you know, that relatability piece, a sense of humor is really important, and in the early days, which was a much, you know, different time, or like, if we’re struggling for to come up with this idea or this caption, it’s like we’re just not going to do it, because that’s this is not meant to be belabored, of course. Now we belabor over things, you know, all the time, if it’s important, but the key is that we wanted to stay true to our voice and our look and what makes us distinct, and not leaning into what everyone else is doing, I mean, as soon as things start to feel the same, or there’s this trend, and everyone’s doing it, that’s when I’ve learned immediately that, like, we need to be pushing in a different direction and honing in on what we do best, even more trying something new. It’s that, you know, you really want to carve out something that feels unique to you, and not what is, you know, everyone else is doing. So, with Rose, a, I think there can be this feeling of, like, you know, big hats in the Hamptons, and things like that. And, of course, if people are, that’s the vibe, then people are drinking our wine. We welcome that, but it’s not necessarily like our style or what we’re going to, or the, you know, our core consumer. So, yeah, it’s really just about honing in on what makes you unique and really owning it and leaning into it hard.

Kara Goldin 13:36
Yeah, definitely. What’s been the most difficult part of growing, yes, way, rose, and in terms of, you know, was it the actual launch, was it bringing it in from outside of the country, COVID, you survived that, like, what, what were some of the kind of hardest moments when you think about

Erica Small 13:58
that’s a great question, I mean, I think that there’s like an ongoing challenge, which is there’s always new challenges that you always have to be on your toes about. I think the biggest, you know, like that’s the thing with business, is there’s always going to be something new that you have to have to face, or you feel like you’ve finally nailed something in marketing, and then everything changes, and you have to learn how to, you know, shoot videos once you’ve been shooting, you know, static for for years, and you finally figured out what works for you, so it’s it’s that the challenge is to always be challenged, and that’s something that I’ve gotten used to. I think personally, I used to really obsess over everything all the time. It consumed me, you know, in my sleep, and realizing that, you know, it’s okay if you get burnt out to take a step back to refill your cup. If you need to, like, take a weekend and be like, “I’m not gonna read emails or. Something, or you know, just like you can love it, and know that you need more, you know, you need to refill a little bit to come back and give it your all, and I didn’t always, you know, see that, I was like, I just have to be on 24/7 and I think that helps the business, so that that challenge of always been the challenge once once things are smooth sailing, just know that something is around the corner, and it could be something easy and manageable, or it could be something that’s gonna take you out for a while, and really, you know, be a head scratcher.

Kara Goldin 15:34
So, you’ve continued to build, have you had to go and get distributors through throughout the country?

Erica Small 15:42
Well, Nikki and I decided when we set out to make Essa Rose that we really wanted to focus on what we’re good at, which is the brand, you know, the marketing, the visual identity, the storytelling, and you know everything having to do with the brand, and that we wanted to work with people who were experts at importing, which is very important to us at the wine, be from the south of France, and distribution, and so we found a partner who helps us with all of that, as well as who has great relationships with producers in France. So we’re partners. It’s been a great way for us to grow and focus on what we’re good at, and been great for the brand to get into the stores where we wanted to be with the retailers we wanted to be, and to grow in the way that we wanted to grow,

Kara Goldin 16:36
so the sober curious movement has become a major trend that so many are talking about, when you look at that trend, and then you started a non-alcoholic version of the drink, and are doing really well with that. What can you share with us that has been interesting, surprising, that you know, maybe people haven’t really thought about in that category.

Erica Small 17:06
Well, I think what’s very interesting is that nine over 90% of the non-alcoholic consumers are consumers who buy wine with alcohol, traditional wine, and so they’re really trying to strike a balance, there’s it creates different occasions, you know, maybe they’re not drinking as much, or they, you know, are having a big meeting the next day, or whatever it is, so it creates more occasions and opportunities for them, you know, to drink, and that it’s still a really growing category, and we felt that Rose still rose from the south of France, and that experience of it wasn’t really represented yet in the market, and that this, we do rose, we do it well, and that’s where we wanted to be, and how we wanted to enter the space,

Kara Goldin 18:02
so how do you market that product when you also have an alcoholic version of the of the drink too?

Erica Small 18:10
But because, well, the it’s pretty clear on the label, it’s alcohol removed wine, and it’s, you know, non-alcoholic. The labels are similar because we want them to be sort of, you know, like a twin of sorts, or another style of Yesa Rosa that you can try, because it’s not like I said, most of the consumers are also consumers of traditional rose and traditional wine, so it’s really about positioning it for different occasions for a more, you know, for balanced lifestyle moderation, drinking in moderation, and yeah, that one night you might want a glass of rose, and another night a glass of non-alcoholic rose, and you can have habit-all.

Kara Goldin 18:59
Well, you started this brand to when you were pregnant, correct.

Erica Small 19:03
We started the non alcoholic. We started developing the non alcoholic when Nikki and I just happened to both be pregnant. When we started the brand, we were in a much different period in our lives. And then, yeah, we had been talking about how to enter the non-alcoholic space, and it just so happened we were pregnant at the same time, was a perfect time for us to explore and also realize what was missing, which was this crisp glass of rose that was worthy of a proper glass, so we, it wasn’t easy to do, we had to taste a lot of different iterations, like over 50 blends, to get to what we felt was truly yesterday, rose, but without, you know, just sans alcohol, and we say it’s still French, still fabulous, just sans alcohol. Last question, actually.

Kara Goldin 20:00
Actually, so five years from now, what does success look like for Yes Way Rose, and what will, what will surprise people most about where you’ve taken the brand at that point?

Erica Small 20:13
I think that in five years we want to be, it will be 1015, years of Yesa Rosa, about next year is our 10th anniversary, and we want to solidify ourselves as a forever brand, a new kind of, you know, forever wine brand that maybe wasn’t traditionally started by two friends that, you know, with untraditional backgrounds in the industry, and so, yeah, we want to be that mainstay on the shelves, and something that people always reach for, this reliable bottle of rose, a deeply trusted by consumers, and that they love and identify as a fun brand that they relate to, so I think it just looks more consistent. It looks like trying things that maybe don’t exist yet, and I can’t even see the future as well, but to still be trend leaders and not followers, and just to be, yeah, the rose that people are always still reaching for,

Kara Goldin 21:21
so have people asked you for other types of non-alcoholic wine, and other wine as well, but I think it’s, it’s really, I know it’s really unusual what you’re doing, or at least a non-alcoholic that tastes really good.

Erica Small 21:36
We have a lot of different ideas for new products and product extensions, brand extensions that are another part of what the future will look like. I think we focus on Rose, we do Rosa, we do it really well, and that’s what we want to own and who we want to be. We really feel like there’s a lot of open road for us, there, it’s not something we feel limited by, so that’s, you know, what the future looks like, and we’re excited about the different ways we can innovate, and it’s, you know, probably one of the most exciting parts, or it’s coming up with those ideas and seeing it come to life.

Kara Goldin 22:15
I love it. Well, Erica, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing all about Yes Way Rosa, what you and Nikki built more than 13 years ago is more than a wine brand, and I think that you are such a great example of a brand that has built a terrific community and point of view, and a business that has continued to evolve alongside your consumers, so for everyone listening, definitely check out Yes Way Rosé, and follow Erica and her team that built it as well. And we’ll have all the info in the show notes, but thank you again, Erica, for your time and for sharing. Really appreciate it. And thanks, everyone, for listening. Until next time on the Kara Goldin show.

Erica Small 23:07
Thank you.

Kara Goldin 23:08
Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin show. If you would please give us a review, and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit, and of course, feel free to subscribe, so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. I would love to hear from you too. So feel free to DM me, and if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal bestselling book, Undaunted, where I share more about my journey, including founding and building hint we are here every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Thanks for listening, and goodbye for now.

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