Phantila Phataraprasit: Co-Founder & CEO of Sabai

Episode 878

What does it take to make sustainable furniture more accessible — without compromising on style, comfort, or quality?
On today’s episode, we welcome Phantila Phataraprasit, CEO and Co-Founder of Sabai — an AAPI and female-founded sustainable furniture brand rethinking what we bring into our homes. A Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree, Apartment Therapy Changemaker, NYU Law graduate, and board member of the Sustainable Furnishings Council, Phantila brings a unique perspective to one of the most complex and overlooked consumer categories: furniture.
Inspired in part by her early experience working in her mother’s eco lodges in Thailand, Phantila built Sabai to address a major blind spot in the sustainability and non-toxic living conversation. We think carefully about what we eat, what we put on our skin, and what we clean with — but often know very little about the materials inside the furniture we live with every day.
In this episode, Phantila shares how Sabai is challenging the traditional furniture model through thoughtful material choices, modular design, and programs that extend the life of each piece. We discuss the challenges of producing sustainable furniture in a category known for waste, hidden materials, long supply chains, and high price points. Phantila also explains how Sabai’s definition of sustainability has evolved from recycled and upcycled materials toward more natural, lower-toxin options, including the brand’s Elevate Natural Collection made with materials like coconut fiber, cotton, latex, muslin, and jute.
We also talk about Sabai Revive, the company’s national furniture buyback program, its Repair Don’t Replace program, and the launch of Fabric by the Yard to make sustainable fabrics more accessible to customers and designers. Phantila shares what it takes to build trust in a category where customers cannot always see what is inside a product, and how Sabai designs furniture that feels elevated and stylish — not overly “eco.”
If you’re interested in sustainable design, circularity, non-toxic living, consumer trust, or building a mission-driven brand in a hard-to-disrupt category — this episode is for you. Tune in now on The Kara Goldin Show.

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Transcript

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up. That I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. I want to be. We just want to make sure you will get knocked down, but just make sure you don’t get knocked out. Knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control. Control. Control. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Kara Goldin Show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go! Let’s go! Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Kara Goldin Show. Today, I’m joined by Phantila Phataraprasit, co-founder and CEO of an incredible, incredible brand, furniture brand called Sabai, an AAPI and female-founded sustainable furniture brand, rethinking what we bring into our homes, and Pentilla’s path to building Sabai is such an interesting one. She and I were just chatting about how she graduated from law school from NYU, and then I had a series of things that happened along the way, and then decided what her passion for sustainability would allow her to do next. So, working in her mother’s eco lodges in Thailand and seeing firsthand how design and materials and the environment are all connected. Sabai was built around a huge blind spot in the sustainability conversation. Furniture. We are going to talk a lot about not only what it took for her to to actually start the company, but actually a lot more of what she has done to actually grow this company too, and I cannot wait to hear a lot more about it. The furniture is absolutely beautiful, comfortable, sustainable. I mean, what else can you ask for? So, Phantila, thank you so much for coming on the Kara Goldin Show.

Phantila Phataraprasit 2:24
You’re so welcome. Thank you so much for having me.

Kara Goldin 2:27
Absolutely. So, okay, before we jump into some of the questions, actually digging into the company Sabai, how do you describe the brand and what makes it so unique?

Phantila Phataraprasit 2:42
I would describe the brand as a comprehensively sustainable furniture company, and I think that what makes us unique is the comprehensive part in terms of trying to take responsibility for and really think about our impact at many different stages of the business and the product’s life cycle. I think sustainability can be such a broad. I mean, it just is such a broad term, and it applies to literally anything you do. And so, when we think about our impact, what we try to do is really think about how we can reduce that impact or reduce the impact on the planet and the people involved at every stage. And so, whether that’s you know the materials, the way it’s made, is it made to be repaired, to be durable, and what are the actual materials? Are they non toxic? It’s just so many different elements that go into the decision making process. And so that’s I think I would say that’s what really makes us unique is the amount of thinking and consideration that goes into these pieces.

Kara Goldin 3:42
So we’ve had some other brands on, including ones like Avocado, that was the mattress company, bedding company, and they talked a lot about non-toxic. But when you think about furniture, people kind of forget about it, right? We’re talking about beauty products and cleaning products. All need to be, you know, safe. But people tend to forget about their furniture that they’re spending so much time in their home with. So, why do you think this is such a blind spot for people?

Phantila Phataraprasit 4:19
It’s such a good question. I think that, like you said, it is such a an important aspect of our health. We spend so much of more of our time indoors than outdoors, and so you know, indoor air quality, furniture directly contributes to that. I think it’s just a really a lack of education around that those types of dynamics. The fact that your indoor indoor air quality is affected by the furniture that you bring into your home. The fact that you know what you’re relying on every day does also impact your health. We can be very literal, or just like it’s just there’s so many different things to consider, and things that you’re putting on your face, that you’re putting in your body. I think are the the starting point for a lot of people. But like you said, furniture is also an important aspect of that because we’re also, you know, napping, sitting, lying on these pieces that we’re interacting with every day, or breathing in the air that it’s affecting.

Kara Goldin 5:14
So take us back to, I guess, your upbringing. I read that your mother had eco lodges in Thailand, and when you think back on starting Sabai, like why did that kind of affect you so much as you were thinking about this business?

Phantila Phataraprasit 5:33
Yeah, I mean, my mom ran and still does run eco lodges in Thailand, which is where I’m from, and I think that growing up in a very entrepreneurial family, both with her influence and then also my dad’s side of the family, also a very entrepreneurial family, I the combination of the two kind of created a framework where I started thinking about things in a very in a way that merged the two in terms of you know, what are business ideas or businesses that could have a positive impact or that incorporate sustainability or consideration of the people, the planet into the business model. And so, I think that as I went, you know, through my life, that was a lot of the lens that I looked at things through, like how okay, how could this problem be solved? And then, with the lens of you know sustainability on top of that, and so when it came to buying furniture and you know being a young adult and trying to furnish your apartment, and then having that lens on top of it, it hit me that it was just a gap in terms of oh, there really aren’t a lot of solutions out there for someone who cares about those things or cares about you know their health and things like that, and also are on a budget and have other things to consider as well. And so that’s kind of how I came to to Sabai.

Kara Goldin 6:54
So you didn’t start Sabai prior to law school. You decided to go to law school, and you graduated from NYU as well. But then you decided to take a turn and go ahead and become an entrepreneur. What was the moment when you decided I need to go and do this?

Phantila Phataraprasit 7:16
Well, I would say that there were a lot of. I think that the level of excitement that I felt was a really good indicator for me. I I was definitely someone who thought about a lot of different business ideas and found that fun and exciting. But this was one that really stuck with me, and that I would you know wake up thinking about, write notes about in my like free time during law school. And so, I mean, I think the helpful thing about doing some starting something while you’re in school is that you do kind of have the the ability to test something out without going all in at that point as well, and so I was still able to like pursue Sabai and run a lot of tests and pursue it for got a grant to do to explore the project for the summer, and so I was really able to get a lot of validating points in before I decided to do it full time. And then when I graduated law school, at that point it was just very clear that I wasn’t about to go into a legal career, and that I was really enjoying, you know, doing very while everybody else was, you know, going to the library and studying for their exams. I was flying to North Carolina to try to find a manufacturer, and so that just was really fun, fun to me. And it felt very clear at that point that that’s what I wanted to keep doing.

Kara Goldin 8:35
So Sabai is very-it’s not just about sustainable and non-toxic materials, but it is also about design. Can you talk about that and maybe where, like, what was the moment when you said these can be merged and there’s nothing like Sabai out there, and I need to go do this?

Phantila Phataraprasit 8:58
Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think that we came to the design portion like that realization a bit later in the stage of the company. In the early days, you know what we we initially launched with a very basic line of sofas. It’s called. We still offer it today. It’s called our essential collection, and we for that collection really focused on you know an accessible price point, the sustainable materials, made to order manufacturing within the U.S. ethical production, designing for repairability, and having component parts that you can replace, and so it was really an exercise in figuring out if we could do all of those things in a seating line, which I think you know we we felt like we achieved and that was kind of our MVP product, and we got really far with it. But then a few years in after we had kind of done all a lot of those baseline things, we realized that you know we kind of need to go a step further in terms of design and create products that feel unique. To buy in their esthetic design as well, because at the end of the day, like while people care about sustainability, they care about health. They also want something that looks beautiful that they’re proud of, that you know is something they can afford, and so all those other considerations that people care about as well, we realized that we needed to to hit as well, and then also you know being able to to be identifiable like people aren’t able to tell what’s inside a couch from looking at it, and so being able to identify like oh that’s a survive product through the design was also something that was important, and that I think in the later collections that we’ve launched, the Elevate, and then more recently the Eclipse collection, those are I think very identifiable as obviously Sabai sofas and designs. So, how did you come up with the name Sabai? It’s a Thai word, which is M Thai, and it’s I feel like it’s the Thai equivalent for huga. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that word, but it. My co-founder essentially asked me, like, okay, what, what’s the Thai word for comfy and cozy? And Sabai basically means it means those things, but it can also encapsulate how you feel. Like when you ask someone how they’re doing? You ask if they’re to buy and tie, and so it both speaks to how you’re feeling. If you’re comfortable, your headspace, and so I think that’s what we want people to feel in relation to the company: physically comfortable sitting on a couch, but also that you know the experience of buying sofas fun and easy and not stressful because whenever you know, I think people go through the process of furnishing something. It can be all those things, and so we want to make sure that the experience is actually one that’s enjoyable as well.

Kara Goldin 11:50
Initially, you focused on very modular furniture for younger people, and parts of that have changed. Or, I guess, how has your consumer changed over time.

Phantila Phataraprasit 12:02
That part has stayed the same. We’ve continued to to make sure that that’s really part of every single collection we launch because that is really unique to Sabai. I would say we launched that two years after the initial launch of the company because we started off with you know the initial product. Probably not that many people are going to need replacement parts for the first two years of having something, and then we launched the the repair program. And it’s just you know we gained a lot of recognition for that. And we’ve also seen I think that was one thing where it’s like it’s not really something people are asking for necessarily, but we felt we had the belief that if we offered it something that people would really value, it’s just that it’s not something that people see, and so they don’t know that it’s an option. And so it’s been really validating to see that people, you know, in our post purchase surveys on Reddit are writing about how they really wanted to buy from us because we have a repair program, and so the mod that is really hand in hand with the modularity because designing for modularity and repairability served the same goal or it informed the design process very similarly. So to be able to you know take apart components and be able to replace them served both modularity and reparability,

Kara Goldin 13:28
and obviously focuses too on the waste component exactly, and you know being able to really encourage people to not toss, which is often what happens with with furniture. Can you talk about some of the pieces that you have? Because I really think they’re so unique. Thank you. One of the the ones I really love is the chair that turns into a bed. Which, of course, if you have a friend over, or I don’t know. Even if you decide that you want to sleep in another room, I guess, yeah, TV night or whatever. But can you talk about that? Because also the fabrics are so amazing and unique. I know you’re one of the fabrics that you have in all different all different colors is hemp. So, but can you talk a little bit about that, and how do you decide on what you’re actually going to be using on the Sabai products?

Phantila Phataraprasit 14:30
Yeah, that is one of my favorite products, and so I’m glad you’re glad you feel the same way. That one was a really fun one to design. I think, I mean, starting with the sleeper collection, I think we knew that we tested it out actually with one of our existing sofas, offering it as a sleeper, but it wasn’t built from I’d say the ground up to be a sleeper sofa, and so we created a mechanism for it to turn it into a sleeper, and that actually gained a lot of traction. Which gave us the confidence to say, okay, let’s design a full collection of sleepers because we’re seeing a lot of signs that people are looking for sleepers that actually look good as sofas as well, and they’re easy to use. And so then we went into you know designing the Eclipse collection, and in terms of the fabrics and the materials, I think that’s you know one of the most fun parts of my job is being able to be really involved in that, and we do a lot of you know customer surveys and research and things like that. But it’s also just informed by our team and me and what we feel like would look great essentially, and what we feel is exciting, and I think that we felt like the the era of the gray couch was coming to an end, and people wanted to really have fun and put their you know personality into their homes and have it be a place that they feel really excited by and proud of, and so with that, you know, we since our inception, we had a line in velvets that were very colorful, and so that was part of our thinking since onset. And then, in the recent launch of the hemp collection, we’ve gone into stripes, and with the eclipse collection, have gone into contrast piping, and that’s been really fun, and it’s been really exciting to see, you know, people opt for a fabric color like our thistle, which is essentially like a periwinkle. Which, you know, if you had told me that a few years ago, I would not have guessed that would be one of our best-selling fabrics. And I don’t think most people would, but I think that that’s where you get kind of awarded for doing something that’s outside of the norm. That you aren’t just saying like, okay, most people are buying, you know, a cream couch or whatever it is, and going by the data in that way. I think it’s it was a a lesson in balancing the data of what’s been purchased and what people are buying versus you know how you can break through the noise noise with with design. To your point around like the hemp, or your question around hemp specifically, that’s something that we were we offered since we started. We offered a cotton blend since the start, but I think that was a bit also early for where people were at in terms of what they were prioritizing in their purchases. I think people cared a lot more about you know stain resistance and pet resistance and videos of water rolling off the fabric and things like that, and didn’t kind of forgot how to take care of natural fabrics that aren’t treated in that way and that you might have to you know dab and wash, and so it’s actually a recent trend that we’ve seen that our hemp has really grown a lot in traction, and I think that’s the the rise in you know wellness and people wanting more natural materials, and they’re also very breathable. Which you know, it’s getting hotter. It’s the summer. It’s something that you know we’ve seen people really resonate with.

Kara Goldin 18:02
So you talked about there are things that you’ve created that have kind of surprised you, like the periwinkle color, or things that maybe you didn’t expect, or maybe another brand hasn’t seen. I’m I’m so curious. Like when you’re creating a product, first of all, what does the design process look like from idea to actual finished product, and how do you how do you make those decisions? Right to go and do something like a periwinkle.

Phantila Phataraprasit 18:35
Yeah, it’s such a good question, and it’s a really fun process, and it’s like a fun problem to solve. We’re actually coming out with a line of beds in the fall, and that’s been it felt like a ground the ground up of a whole new category of like okay how we’re going to tackle this this product and think about it as a you know problem solving exercise because ultimately that is what it it is for us because we’re piecing together okay the price point, the materials, the manufacturing capabilities that are within our network are, or fit into our model because we make to order within the U.S. and so we’re constrained by our current suppliers or other suppliers within the U.S. and we’re not going, you know, abroad right now to to our manufacturing, and so I’d say it starts with thinking about you know what I think going back to the customer really because that’s who matters. And so thinking about okay, what’s missing in the market or the experience for that customer right now, or think if you think about a bed, like what’s hard to find or just annoying about the current offerings, whether that could be you know price point, that could be personality and color and design, that could be functionality. Like storage is hard and it’s expensive when you do buy that with storage, and so and then the materials is another part of it. Obviously, is finding you know our mo. When it comes to materials, is sustainable and like low impact, essentially and non toxic. And so, materials that have are chemical free, forever chemical free, and we are really we are really focused on natural materials. And so, that’s always it’s a juggling exercise to like toggle, like okay, if we use these materials, what does that change in terms of the price? And are we able to do the design that we want from an esthetic perspective using those materials? So it’s a very iterative process, I would say, between me, our designer, and our manufacturing partner to continue figuring out, you know, how do we find that sweet spot for us?

Kara Goldin 20:43
When you think about where you’ve started and where you are today, what’s the most surprising aspect about, I guess, building Subai that has sort of surprised you? Because even when you’ve grown up in, it sounds like a very entrepreneurial family. You weren’t doing a consumer product or watching somebody else do a hard product, right? They they’re in your mom is in the service business, right? Which is in hotels and travel, and and that’s also a hard business, but it’s a different business. So you really did not have anyone sort of whispering in your ear, or you could, you know, watch them make all the mistakes. I mean, this is learning by trial, learning, you know, under fire. However, you want to what what has been the most kind of hard and and surprising aspect of growing Sabai.

Phantila Phataraprasit 21:42
I mean, every business you know has its things and its challenges. I think I did not think about how or the impact of deciding to produce and sell and ship things that are so large. It sounds like such a obvious thing, but you know, it impacts really every part of the business, whether it’s photo shoots, getting content. In the early days, you know, we were renting U-hauls and trucking these couches around to the set or to whatever event to try to get it there. Impacts gifting, impacts like the logistics, and so I would say that was definitely something that I didn’t realize or think about at the beginning that really hit me. But I think from a broader sense, I would say just how much things are constantly changing, and to be I think good at your job, you always have to. It’s not just you can’t continue just doing what you’ve been doing, you have to constantly be thinking about, like, okay, how do I now get into this new channel or this, whether it’s like a sales channel or a marketing channel, there are just always new opportunities, new challenges, and I think that, I mean, that’s the fun and exciting part about, you know, running a business is constantly problem solving and facing these challenges, but I think that I don’t. I did. I don’t think I realized the speed and the extent to which the number of challenges that you’re constantly faced with would be, especially within you know within marketing and sale, like in sales and selling a consumer product. The ecosystem is changing all the Time,

Kara Goldin 23:21
yeah, no, definitely. So you launched Fabric by the Yard. Can you talk a little bit about that incredible part of your business that not a lot of furniture manufacturers do? And I, I love it. So it’s really great. But what inspired that program? And can you talk about who’s using it?

Phantila Phataraprasit 23:45
Yeah, it was inspired by people, our customers, really emailing in and asking us if they could buy yards of our fabric. I think that we realized that we had done all this work to source and develop materials for us that we found hard to source, and so, you know, a lot of the standard practice for a lot of furniture companies would would be to buy off the shelf fabric or fabric that’s stocked, so that they don’t have to develop the fabric from you know from the ground up, whether it’s the colors or whatever it is. But for us, we wanted fabrics that were whether our velvet is recycled velvet, our hemp is a blend of hemp and cotton. It’s organic. It’s none of our fabrics have any stain resistant treatments on them, and so I guess we just realized that oh, we’ve done all this work to find or to develop fabrics that meet all these things that we care about, and people are already buying our furniture because they care about these things. Let’s make the fabric available as well because we’re getting all these requests to buy the fabric by the yard, and so yeah, we launched that back in February, and a slowly growing part of our business, and it’s just kind of. Continues to supplement what we’re already doing, and I would say that it’s a lot of the customer for that. I would say are people who already have our sofas who want to use the fabric for other parts of their home, and then also or use that fabric for other furniture that they have, other seating as well.

Kara Goldin 25:19
It’s interesting because I think that that really speaks not only you’re trying to serve your consumer, but also your consumer trusts you, right? So they want to buy more from you because they’ve trust they trust that you’ve done the work, right? Exactly. To find it’s not just about matching colors, right? Or that might be a little bit about it, but it really is about the quality and and what’s behind that quality. So I think it’s it’s fascinating on on many many levels what what that really speaks to. So you’re an AAPI and female founder building in a category that has been very very difficult to disrupt. What would you say has surprised you most about the overall founder journey?

Phantila Phataraprasit 26:16
I would say, I mean, it definitely was true that we were starting a business in in an industry that was mostly dominated by men and mostly white men, and when we were looking for a manufacturer, I think a lot of people encounter this, where you know you have an idea and you develop it, and you’re now it’s like okay, well someone will make it, and it will that they overlook the the challenge of that part, and we definitely were faced with that, and would go to a lot of manufacturers who didn’t understand what we were doing, and you know we were unproven as a as a brand. We didn’t have sales yet, and so it was definitely a challenge to figure out or to find someone who would just literally make these products for us in the way we wanted them to be made with the materials we wanted them to be made with, and so that was definitely really challenging. And we ultimately ended up finding a manufacturing partner that we still work with to to today. And so I think one surprising thing: this is less about the founder journey, but just how relationship driven things can be, and how like if we hadn’t found that manufacturer who they were a young minority-owned factory out of North Carolina who wanted to grow and took a bet on us, and we’ve built that relationship and have continued working with them, we didn’t have them. We no one, no one would have made the product and continued to make the product with us and grow with us through all the challenges that the industry has seen over the last five six years, and so I think that’s one thing that’s been surprising is the relationships really do matter with your suppliers, with your vendors, and then the other surprising part. I mean, it was it’s the first business I’ve ever started, and so just the amount that you learn, I think, about yourself and how you handle different situations has been just incredible. And I’m so grateful for the amount that I’ve learned about. You know, okay, am I am I good at delegating? Am I a good leader? Am I good at having hard conversations and you know facing the truth of a situation, am I good at just picking myself back up when we have some hard moment and pivoting and you know encouraging our team and boosting morale? You you just learn so much about yourself and how you handle things, and I think that’s been such a gift. I’m so grateful for that.

Kara Goldin 28:37
Yeah, no, definitely, it’s it’s so challenging to be a founder and also build a brand as as you have, and you know continue sticking to the core of why you started this company, and actually doing it in a way that that works, right? Where you’re not losing tons of money, but you know, getting your EBITDA and all all that kind of stuff, or getting headed in the right direction at least. It’s also new, I think, especially to a first time founder, but also also important. Everything’s important, right? That every aspect of it. So I think also it can be really lonely too. So everything that you’re talking about about relationships also matter too, because I think as much as you can tap into someone else, someone else’s expertise or network as well, they might be able to help you solve a problem faster, if not actually help you solve it. So it’s so so interesting. You’re on the board of the Sustainable Furnishings Council. I love it. So, what would you like to see the broader furniture industry change that has not been, I guess, focused on to?

Phantila Phataraprasit 30:00
That’s a great question. I think that the two buckets in my mind are the repairability and the materials. And so the repairability, I just there isn’t really anybody else doing something similar to what we’re doing because I think the logistics of it are just challenging, and so that. something that I’d like to see be more of a norm. I think that would help reduce waste in the industry tremendously. And then, material-wise, that’s another area where I feel like you know we’re doing a lot of material testing and incorporating innovative materials into our products, and that can be expensive because there isn’t, you know, mass adoption yet, and so the cost of those materials are higher. And so, I think it would be amazing if more of the industry shifted towards more natural or non-toxic materials or sustainable materials, so that we can lower the cost of that for everybody.

Kara Goldin 31:00
Yeah, definitely, definitely. So, how have you gotten the word out about Sabai outside of the fact that you’ve been recognized by Architectural Digest, El Decor, Forbes, Wire Cutter, Apartment Therapy, so much press around it, but has there been another way that when you look at what has really worked in terms of getting the word out about Sabai? Because obviously, when you start a company, you’re you know everything’s tight, right? Like you can’t spend tons of cash going and and getting the word out by buying billboards and TV commercials and all this, even though you’re doing great stuff. But what do you think has been the biggest help for you in terms of getting the word out about Sabai?

Phantila Phataraprasit 31:57
Well, I will say that press really has been the biggest one for us, and I know you said other than press, but just to to really underscore that that has really been a really worthwhile investment for us is to spend the time and work with you know great partners to really get us into those outlets because I think that builds so much customer trust, especially for a younger brand, that you know doesn’t that having that validation is just really really impactful for. And so I’d say press is the first thing that we’ve seen really be a huge driver and impact. And then, I mean, obviously there are digital ads. We can’t gift that much when it comes to influencer because our products are so large and expensive. I would say one thing that has been impactful for us over the last two years: we had a showroom in Williamsburg and in New York, and we drove sales through the showroom, but we also saw a halo effect throughout the rest of New York and Brooklyn, specifically from the store. And so, one thing that we’re now thinking more heavily about is what’s our retail strategy going into the rest of the year. Because we we closed that showroom because we wanted to diversify. We saw that lift throughout Brooklyn and that halo effect, but we want to replicate that in other geographies. And you know, we don’t have the budget to open permanent retail stores nationwide yet. But I think that people want to touch and feel. People want to know that you’re a real brand, real people, and even if it’s not them who went to the store, if they know someone who went to the store, that’s very validating for people. And so, right now, our strategy is to do pop-ups in cities where we’re seeing a lot of growth and traction for spy.

Kara Goldin 33:54
That’s that’s awesome, such a good idea. Well, Pentilla, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us about everything that you’re doing, and and thank you for launching Sabai, such a great great company. I’m so excited to see you guys grow, and you mentioned that you have new categories coming out, so we all should be watching for that. And for everyone listening, if you have not checked out Sabai and explored their collections, definitely follow along and and purchase for sure. Such an incredible line! It’s they’ve done such an amazing, amazing job. So thank you again, and thanks everyone for listening. We’ll also we’ll have all the info in the show notes as well. But until next time on the Kara Goldin Show,

Phantila Phataraprasit 34:47
thanks, Kara.

Kara Goldin 34:48
Thank you. Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin Show. If you would, please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit. And of course. Feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. I would love to hear from you too, so feel free to DM me. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal best-selling book Undaunted, where I share more about my journey, including founding and building. Hint: We are here every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Thanks for listening, and goodbye for now.

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