Chris Salgardo: Founder & CEO of ATWATER

Episode 909

What happens when you make it to the top of your industry—and decide to start over?
On The Kara Goldin Show, I sit down with Chris Salgardo, Founder and CEO of ATWATER, and former President of Kiehl’s. After more than 40 years in beauty, Chris left the corporate world to build a skincare and grooming brand of his own.
We talk about what nearly two decades at Kiehl’s taught him about building brands that last, why he decided to become an entrepreneur, what men still get wrong about skincare, and why simpler, high-performance routines are winning with consumers.
Chris has seen the beauty business from almost every angle—from starting as a makeup artist at 18 to leading major brands and ultimately becoming a founder himself. This is a great conversation about reinvention, starting over, and what decades of experience can teach you about building something new. Listen here or anywhere you get your podcasts. 🎧

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Transcript

Kara Goldin 0:00
I am unwilling to give up. That I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. I want to be. We just want to make sure you will get knocked down, but just make sure you don’t get knocked out. Knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control. Control. Control. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Kara Goldin Show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world’s greatest leaders. We’ll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can’t wait to get started. Let’s go. Let’s go. Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Kara Goldin Show. What happens when you’ve already made it, risen to the top, and then just decide I’m going to go and do it again? So a glutton for punishment, right? Chris Salgardo, founder and CEO of the incredible brand ATWATER, spelled A-T-W-A-T-E-R, before becoming an entrepreneur. Chris spent many, many years in beauty, including nearly two decades helping build keels and ultimately serving as its president. But Chris decided to leave the corporate world and become a founder, launching ATWATER in 2022, a performance-driven skincare and grooming brand built around making great skincare much simpler, and he’s done just that. So today we’re talking about what four decades in beauty taught him about building brands that last. Why he was willing to start over, and what men still get wrong about skincare, and how being the founder is very different from being a president or senior executive inside of a large company. So, welcome to the Kara Goldin Show. So nice to meet you.

Chris Salgardo 2:06
Yeah. So, thank you so much for having me. I’m. It’s such. It’s a pleasure, and I all these things I I love talking about. So, thank you for having me.

Kara Goldin 2:14
I love it. So, for Chris, for someone who has not heard of ATWATER yet, or is just discovering ATWATER. How do you describe the brand?

Chris Salgardo 2:25
So it is. I I always say that ATWATER is an intelligent brand, and not that I’m a big sports guy, but like I look at all the products that I’ve created and I’ve done that, and I say every single one of these items has a reason for being. They all have a place on the field. So when I was concepting this, and I was just looking at the market and looking at my own expertise, you know, I thought, okay, like, what does this brand really need to be comprised of? And I didn’t want to be that guy who’s like, I looked everywhere and I couldn’t find anything. It’s like, dude, have you been to Sephora or Ulta? Because you’ll probably find it there. And I didn’t want to be like, oh, you know, I look, you know, my acne, and I just didn’t want to have all that storytelling that I felt like you know we’ve heard over and over again. So I wanted ATWATER to just be an effective brand with choice, so that it would deliver on its promises, that it would see you wherever you are. So, if you have dry skin, if you have oily skin, which sounds like well, duh, doesn’t every brand have that? You’ll find it in women’s. You won’t necessarily find it so much in men’s. So, for me, ATWATER was just about powering up the best ingredients. Let’s keep it vegan. Let’s keep it fragrance free, and let’s deliver on the promises that it can really deliver and give men and women choice about what they should be using for their skin, and not trying to push like, hey, this one cream is going to do it all for you because that’s never been my belief.

Kara Goldin 3:58
Where did the name ATWATER come from

Chris Salgardo 4:01
so two things. So one, let me see if I can do this without crying. So ATWATER, California, is my father’s hometown. So I am actually from the town over Merced, and I just thought nobody wants a skincare brand called Merced. And so, and I, my father was a CHP officer for most of his life, and really an inspiration, and and how he looked at things and how he tinkered with things. He kept the most immaculate garage you’ve ever seen, and this guy would fix his own carts and build his own appliances and do whatever he wanted to do, and do it in such a beautiful way that I was always someone I didn’t realize at the time how much of that erupt off because at that point I’m like I don’t want to even be in the garage and holding your flashlight, and then the other part of it came from all my years that I’ve spent working on philanthropy. So I’ve ridden 13,000 miles on my motorcycle for AIDS and HIV, breast cancer. Or an ovarian cancer, all of which I’ve lost friends to, and in that process, I got to see an America that I think very few people would get to see, and it’s very different on a motorcycle. So you’re seeing towns that are thriving, you’re seeing towns that are dying, but for me, it felt like the spine of America, and I was really inspired by that, so I wanted ATWATER to be. I wanted everyone to see themselves in it, and not just be a coastal brand, you know, the the West and the East Coast, but everything. And so those are the those were the two inspirations. It was my father’s hometown, and that I felt like it really celebrated all the small towns that this country is built on.

Kara Goldin 5:42
I love it. So you’ve been in beauty for more than 40 years. You do not look like you’ve been in beauty for 40 years, but it’s all it’s all that amazing skincare, right? So take us take us back to the beginning. I know you started as a makeup artist at 18. Did you ever imagine where that would lead?

Chris Salgardo 6:06
So listen, you know, as a gay man, you know, I when I was coming out, this is you’re talking 1983, right? To put this in context, you can like I never. I was very lucky to live in Los Angeles, and I was this very I’m very tall guy. I was about 80 pounds lighter. I did go through a fair bout of acne, but I never lacked confidence. I never felt bad about myself, nor did I think that, given my circumstances and having to come out, that my choices were going to be limited. So that helped me. And I would say, what helped me with that is this idea of courage. I have been courageous my entire life, and I’ll share with you why that is important for the decisions that I made. So when I came out of high school and starting college, I went to my local department store. The bullets aren’t around anymore. It used to be now it’s Macy’s, and they had one job left, and that one job was in the cosmetic department. And I thought I wanted to be in men’s clothing, but they didn’t have it. And the manager kind of talked me into, and I thought, okay, why not? And I landed there. And what I think is interesting about that, if you you know believe in destiny was that one decision. The last job available would become my entire career, and I think once I got in there, and you can imagine, I might as well have landed in my flying saucer. Like women were looking at me like, “Why are you here? You don’t belong here, and men were looking at me and like, “Why is he here? This is odd. This is a women’s game, and I just didn’t care, Kara. I was having the time of my life. Like I felt so fabulous. It just made. I was already a confident man, and I felt 10 times more confident. And I went from working in men’s fragrances to getting into cosmetics to doing my first makeover, this wonderful woman who sat there, and I just did what I saw other people do, but she did end up leaving with green eyeshadow, green eyeliner, and green mascara. So, which we’re just going to hope that that was very much the the look at the time. But I I I never felt like in from that step forward, that I was limited, or that I could never see major success. I just was. What I didn’t know was that it was going to be in beauty, like my whole. I didn’t know that that would be my journey and where it would take me, which was incredible.

Kara Goldin 8:39
So you helped transform Kiehl’s into a global skincare brand. What did Kiehl’s teach you about building a brand that people genuinely love?

Chris Salgardo 8:52
So I’m going to tell you this is really important. Every job I’ve taken, including that one, I was never ready for, ever. So I always went into a job with my legs shaking because if your legs aren’t shaking, you’re not climbing. And what I, I mean, kills and L’Oreal was one of the most incredible. I mean, it’s been everything for me. And I and I’ve and I’ve worked for Chanel. I’ve worked for Bobby Brown, Estelauder. I’ve worked for incredible companies, but that particular assignment, I came in as a vice president of sales when I started, and so all of a sudden, me, little old Chris, was the person in charge of who gets to have keels, and where all the stores are going to go, and how many, and I was a Baby, and so first of all, it was just embracing that and and learning about these channels that Kiehl’s was performing so well in, and how beloved it become. You know, it was a small brand in the beginning, but it just skyrocketed, and I think what. I learned about it was as I became. It was more of a proof point. Like as I thought about being a founder myself, what I loved about Kiehl’s is that it was a real story, and it had perspective and a and a point of view. And I could say the same about Bobbi Brown. I could say the same thing about Gabrielle Chanel. Like there was this commonality that ran through it, so that training in and of itself was fascinating. Then I went from having a mail order business where you deep, deep hello, I’d like to buy a two grand decor, to transforming that to an e-commerce business. So that was like, you know, your mind just blew, like with what that was in 2001, so I’m launching stores, I’m expanding wholesale, I am doing e-commerce. Like the the learning, I just couldn’t keep up. Like it was going so quickly, and then four years later, I became president of Sholmora, and then by 2006, I became president of Kiel’s Shulmora and Armani, and yeah, and if that sounds like triple the work, you would be right. And so the the whole experience at L’Oreal, I mean, I felt like I was they’re they’re top of the of the of the game for a reason. You’re working with the most talented people, and I was very fortunate that that courage came right back, and I was daring with my ideas, and they let me really explore all the things that I thought were right in building out the Kiehl’s business with my team, and I think that’s why Kiehl’s still is probably one of the most revered beauty brands that we’ve seen in history, and and the learnings for me from how to find stores, open stores, build stuff, take a legacy brand, right? Like you’re talking about Kiehl’s since 1851. I would love it. People would ask me, “Did you found it? Heels since 1851 would make me very old, and so just every experience with that brand in building the products and looking, you know, redoing the catalog to the customer experience. Oh my goodness! I mean, I wouldn’t be here today with all without all that.

Kara Goldin 12:23
But I guess with heels, I mean, it’s important you’re maintaining the brand and hopefully growing the brand and continuing its legacy. But it’s not doing what you’ve done at ATWATER, which is starting a new brand, how different is it? Starting a new brand and trying to get that traction because you have the muscle of L’Oreal behind you in your previous experience, and now it’s you know it’s it’s Chris knocking on doors. I bet it’s different, right? It’s totally you might have the context to go and produce the product, and you know formulations, etc. But now you’ve got to get the word out about the brand and what what does it mean, the trust, all of those things. So, can you talk to us about like the challenge of that? Because I don’t think everybody people think like, “Oh, Chris has had all this experience, and yes, but it’s different.

Chris Salgardo 13:28
Yeah, and again, that that’s where that that courage comes into it, right? Like all these things are, like, at a point in my life where my contemporaries are like, “Well, how are you going to retire? Do you have enough money? Where are you going to be? Blah blah, and I’m thinking about walking away from this really rock star job to kind of like just start all over again. And I, I, I want to say like, and I, I tell this to people all the time, like, if there are things in your life that you want to get done, you do them. They don’t have to be starting a whole new career, but you will run out of time. And I didn’t want to look at the end of my life and be like, “Gosh, you know, I have these regrets. I just felt like that was the one thing I didn’t want to carry, and and I and I’ve done that. So when I started concepting out ATWATER, it just flowed because I built my whole life’s experience around skincare and grooming, and I kind of knew that I would go from every door flying open to me to being sort of like, “Hey, it’s Chris, and I’ll be back here, and whenever you have 10 minutes, or I’ll just send you an email, and I was okay with that because I’ve never, I and I tell people be careful. Like it’s never defined me that success. I’ve never been like, you know, president of Kiehl’s, obey me now. It’s like I want to have this this really full life, and part of that is building my own skincare brand with my own vision. That I felt is really going to serve other people like it served me, so that helps with the sleepless nights and oh my god, I’ve ruined my life and why did I leave that great job and all my medical insurance and all those other things. I think what you can’t the other there’s so many learnings. You have to. I I don’t really like when people say, you know, you you have to do this, or you’re gonna die. Like I think that’s a bit extreme, but you better be well financed because beauty today is not like it was 10 years, 15 years ago. It’s expensive. It’s crowded. There’s a lot of noise, even though the brands could be a sea of sameness. So you better be ready for that. So money is a real thing, and I feel like people don’t go into this really with that operational brain. I’ve said in lots of seminars, and I’ve heard people usually when you talk to founders, the questions are always around business. So, to me, I had all of that. I’ve had my ups and downs with it. So, get your board of directors. I have my Chris board of directors who aren’t board of directors. They’re mentors that I just use around myself to be like, “Am I losing my mind? Like, is this a good idea? Is this a bad idea? So I protect my energy and I protect my serenity in this process because I am the kind of founder that you know builds products and works on copy and picks shades and photographs because I want to. It’s a gift, and I think like all of that means other things don’t get done. So maybe you’re not posting on social media, maybe you’re not a charming seminar, maybe you’re not going to these cocktail parties, and maybe that’s my advantage that I’ve actually made those contacts and I can pick them up again. Maybe that’s the benefit, and there certainly are benefits to it. I I went in like a laserping kara, like you know everything. I feel grateful for with ATWATER is that even down to the product catalog is exactly how I concepted it from 2021, so I wasn’t like, “Oh, I’m going to chase peptides. Oh, I’m going to chase, you know, K beauty. Like, no, I’m going to be ATWATER, and I’m going to stay true to the vision that I had. So, I think the the learnings have just been you’re you’re on your own. It takes time. Don’t be fooled by. Oh my gosh, look at Road or Alex Earl. I mean, these were superstars.

Chris Salgardo 17:26
You know, like you have to, you know, keep your benches realistic so you don’t crumble and feel like you’re family because you’re not. So all of that, I feel like even doing it at this time in my life, my emotional maturity was just such a different place that allowed me for this, and I’m giving you the highlights. There’s plenty of time where I’m curled up in my cat and sobbing, and oh my god, mom, I’ve ruined my life, and you know, can I come live with you if nothing works? There’s been that fair share of it too, but I mean, it’s been a it’s it is the most incredible experience as long as you have all the other components around it, because you’re going to have to shift. You’re going to have to have formulas. You’re going to have to have inventory. You’re going to have to have relationships with retailers. If that’s the the the way you choose, you’re going to have to have social. Like you’re going to have to have those things. But how does it fit into your into your into your strategy and how you want to deliver on these things because it’s 24/7. You know you’re really going all the time, and burnout is a real thing. So I know I said a lot of things on this because it’s complicated. You know, and that is not even though I was working for the biggest the cosmetic company in the world, leading one of the most, you know, one of the largest skincare players. The experience is different, you know, because I don’t have to worry about, you know, paying other people’s medical insurance or paying myself or all the things that come with it. And it’s a different-not I don’t want to say stress level, but it’s different concerns that you’re you’re you’re working with every day that I just have to think about you know when it was at my own company.

Kara Goldin 19:07
So at Water, your go-to-market strategy. How many SKUs did you launch with, and how did you decide what you were going to launch with? I mean, in some ways, working at Kiehl’s, there’s so many products, and obviously you worked on other brands too. But how do you decide what’s really necessary? What did you focus on, and how did you make that decision on what

Chris Salgardo 19:32
to do? So this is, I think, is where everyone kind of misses it, right? If you talk, and I don’t want to sort of characterize, but a lot of people will tell you, and I got the advice too. Start with one product and test it out, and make sure it’s great. Then add another one, and the third one. I wanted to be the ultimate skincare and grooming solution for men, and then for everybody eventually. And in order to do. That if you really are going to do that, then you have to have choice. I have really oily skin. If I put on a cream that’s made for everybody, chances are I’m not going to like it. And guess what? Men do. They get the wrong thing. They put it on their face. They hate it. They never use it again. I know all this stuff is junk, and I don’t believe in it. So, I instinctively looked at my own experience, and I’ve I’ve I’ve done all I’ve done the 13 steps, I’ve done the few steps, I’ve used all these different brands, and I felt that ATWATER had to be around choice. It had to, so I had to make that investment in thinking about what does an oily skin need? What does a drier skin need? What does combination skin need? And what are the other products that surround that to support that brand? What does what did they have to do? And so, and that have always been really clear on. Like, so I’ve never come at this with one size fits all. I don’t believe in it, straight up. And then I thought about you know because I said this earlier, like when people say to me, “Oh gosh, you know, nothing’s you know I couldn’t find this whatever product. It’s like, well, you haven’t been to Sephora because it’s probably lurking on one of those shelves, but I think it’s how I also built the brand, and I was very conscientious about not only the ingredients I was using, and as a benefit is because I don’t have high overhead, I can spend a lot more on my formulas, and I really thought about textures. You know, like I think for women, women are used to putting stuff on their faces. There’s a great transference of knowledge from you know mother to daughter, and women are used to it. Men aren’t. You know, my father handed me a shaver and said, “Don’t kill yourself. Don’t nick yourself. And you know, so for us, we don’t like a lot of things. We want it. We want it to be uncomplicated, but we are not Neanderthals too. We don’t want it to be like a bar of soap, and that’s all we get. So, ATWATER had to be a smart solution, and men. So, when I thought about the brand, I thought about well, he ultimately wants healthy skin. I know I did. 18-year-old Chris and 60-year-old Chris want exactly the same thing. I wanted a clear complexion, which I didn’t have back then. I have now. I wanted to be well groomed, took care of those eyebrows and that beard and hair, like. And I felt like if you do that, if ATWATER can deliver on that, then we are way ahead of the way ahead of the group. And then the other thing too is that I’ve been doing this for 40 plus years. I felt like I didn’t want to treat him like a stereotype. I didn’t want to think of him as like a bro or a dude or a Sasquatch or whatever they the terms are out there. And I felt like my own grooming experience, because I’ve spent my life in this, would also benefit. In that I’m like your ultimate stylist. I can look at you and you can tell me, “Hey, Chris, this is what’s wrong, and I want to, and that’s what’s wrong, but these are the things I want to improve on. And ATWATER could deliver on that. That could be the vehicle. And so I felt like the brand really delivers on all those points. I am in love with my brand. I I could invent anything, right? Like I can create anything. And these are the products that I chose so again.

Chris Salgardo 23:20
Back to that comment. Like every product is built for a place on the field. There isn’t that. And somebody, I’m like, oh, we’ll just add this because the market needed it. I thought about it structurally. I thought about it strategically, and I thought about how can I meet him at the moment, and and that’s what I thought about formulas and packaging, and all of the things, and that’s what brought ATWATER to life.

Kara Goldin 23:48
Not only the products, they’re great, but also the packaging is is super terrific. How many SKUs did you actually launch with

Chris Salgardo 23:58
then? I launched with 10, and I, which is a lot, and then I’ve really just added strategic and everything. Kara, again, I go back to, I I wanted to do. I am. It takes me a while with formulas, because again, I I’m I’m very aware of texture. Like texture for me is everything you know to like what I put in my hair, to what it’s on my face and my beard, everything. So building new products takes about three years. So right in the beginning, I had plans for a beard oil. We launched it last year. I wanted a sunscreen. Sunscreens are very, very, very, very, very hard to formulate, and I wanted to be mineral, and then we did a cleansing gel this year, which sounds easy, but I didn’t like any of the ones in the men’s market, and I was really experimenting with women’s formulas, and and then we we are and so that’s been the pipeline since 2022, and we’re just long. Our first hair product, and I did nails. I thought, you know, I channeling my inner Chris Algardo at the Van Halen concert. If anyone knows Van Halen is, and looking at David Lee Roth with those painted nails, and I’m like, he is cool. And so I did four dark shades of nail lacquer because it’s a fun grooming moment, but am I a nail lacquer company? I’m not. So we stay to our core, which is skincare. But we’re adding in things that still can make you the best groom guy in the room. So it was 10 to start with, and then we’ve added in other products that have made sense and gives him choice, but not layers, which is very different. My skin needs clean impact exfoliating bar. I’m going to use this. Ah, a little dry today. I’m going to use my hydrating bar instead. Choice is okay. Layering, I’m not going to ever recommend that.

Kara Goldin 25:59
So interesting. So, what’s a decision that you’ve made without water that maybe didn’t work, and what did it teach you?

Chris Salgardo 26:08
Gosh, I would say a decision that I didn’t make-that I didn’t go into TikTok early. Like I felt like that was really rising, and it made me very aware of my age, because I was like, I don’t have time for TikTok. Like, I can barely look at Instagram, and and it in TikTok, I think, has become the wild west of marketing. I mean, it’s still everything’s possible on there, and I’m still learning it. And I felt like I wish I would have gotten, guys. There’s so many things now that I think about it. Like that was a biggie. I think also too, not taking more control over the brand’s image, like just because time. Like I mean, time is a real thing. Like I, I’ve built a career at a very you know working behind a counter like I’ve always been into the weeds, but you don’t have enough time. And if you’re a new brand, as I remind everybody, every big brand was small at one point. You’re making decisions. You’re not going to be bankrolled forever or your own money. So I feel like those are some of the big ones, but so many. But I, I really felt like I wish I would have cracked that nut earlier, and I had to kind of get it out of my head too that you know you you’re too old, you kind of miss it, you know, because sometimes you tell yourself these things that just aren’t true, and I’m like, nope, I’m gonna tap that fear down. I’m courageous. I’m going to learn it now and just keep moving. So I didn’t do it through two years ago. I wish I had. I’m doing it today. There you go.

Kara Goldin 27:47
That’s a good one. So is there one product that is kind of the runaway Goldin ticket of all of your SKUs that has has really taken off and has it has it surprised you in any way that it has?

Chris Salgardo 28:04
So nothing has surprised me because I’ve really been again. This is where I think my experience comes in because I knew what I was building, and I’m so confident in my products. Our mineral, our Skin Armor mineral moisturizer with sunscreens, our number one selling product. My favorite product, and and I think this is one day going to be one of those cult hits. Is it’s it’s called Heavy Armor. It’s a moisturizer targeted for a normal to dry skin. What I love about this product is that the number two ingredient is niacinamide, and I could go on all day with how like everybody uses an niacinamide, but we use it at a high concentration, and we power it up with things like shea butter, which was big 510 years ago, and now is having a resurgence. How multi like I? You’re gonna laugh. I had a dry elbow. I’m looking in the mirror. I’m like, oh, where did that come from? I usually have great skin, and I thought, hmm, let me just put a little heavy armor on there. And I think I even did some before and afters. And how this has changed my skin? Like I knew the first night I used that product because I’m always about testing at night. How does my skin look in the daytime? If it if it’s improved in the morning, you got a winner. If it hasn’t, don’t bother. And heavy armor has it is my like it is at the cornerstone of my skincare routine. I use it. I go through tubes of it, and it hasn’t necessarily. I mean, it does well, but it doesn’t do as well as you know. I think it it could. People need to learn it. Go buy MBA.

Kara Goldin 29:43
Yeah, exactly. I was going to say that. I love it. So, what are you most excited about? Last question, Chris. So, what are you most excited about for the brand? I mean, you are building something that is new to the market. In a big industry, it’s something that this is a passion project for you too. That is important, right? You could have done a lot of other things, but you decided that you really wanted to go build this, and you’re doing it, and it’s growing and all kinds of good things about it. Great products, great brand. But what are you most excited about moving forward?

Chris Salgardo 30:26
So I would answer that. So first of all, I’m attending a men’s summit that Adam Hurley, who’s done a lot of work with GQ, and he’s an incredible editor, and he’s assembled this great team of people. So again, I I’ve been in this sector for a long time where aftershave was your big for guys. Here’s your Aramis aftershave, so I think the market is finally catching up, and you’re having things like this summit where he’s assembled this great group of people, and it’s a big men’s is a big tent. It’s not like women’s. There’s a lot of room for us all to be successful, so I feel like I chose wisely, and I would say like the ability. Like I had a guy in the parking lot of Walgreens rolls down his window, and he’s like, “I had an ATWATER two shot. He’s like, “Is that your company, ATWATER? And he’s like, I said, yeah, and I didn’t know what he was going to say to me, Kara thought it could be anything. And he’s like, I love your products, and so there’s this moment now where, because I’ve worked on love brands, and I’m finally beginning to hear this, like I love your products, and that I’m excited about because it’s different when you’ve worked on a keels or you’ve worked on a Chanel that are so loved, right? That you know the the connection with the customer and that’s what I’ve always been about. That there’s something about right there. I feel like I’ve done my job. Like I’m here to help you, and I mean that sincerely. I want you to look better, whatever that means to you. So that I feel like I have the platform now. I have products. We’re about to launch Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus in about two weeks. I have incredible existing retailers. I’ve got new products on the horizon. I’ve got these platforms. I want to jump back on my motorcycle and raise money for others because that’s why I’m here. That is my higher calling. So I’m excited about all these things, and I I just I live every day with gratitude and wake up every morning and thank you. I’m here. I am just so blessed.

Kara Goldin 32:39
So so good. So for everyone listening, check out ATWATER, purchase ATWATER, and follow to see what he is doing and building next. And thank you so much, Chris, for coming on and sharing all that you’re doing. What an amazing journey! I love hearing your story and love what you’re doing at ATWATER. So good luck with everything, and we’ll see you next time, everyone, on the Kara Goldin Show.

Chris Salgardo 33:10
Thank you, Kara.

Kara Goldin 33:11
Thanks again for listening to the Kara Goldin Show. If you would, please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit. And of course, feel free to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode of our podcast. Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Goldin. I would love to hear from you too, so feel free to DM me. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal best-selling book Undaunted, where I share more about my journey, including founding and building. Hint: We are here every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Thanks for listening, and goodbye for now.

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